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The Local _ Finance _ Beyond the Kronofogden

Posted by: Frustrated 30.Aug.2018, 10:30 PM

Hej alla,

I wonder if anyone has any experience collecting debts after kronofogden has failed? In my case, I'm owed money (this is a person to person issue, no companies involved), I took it to court, got a decision in my favour with legal force, and applied to KF for enforcement. I get a letter today from KF that the debtor has in sufficient resources to pay the debt (!) and they will make another investigation sometime before the year 2020. Do any of you know of any recourse I might have to actually collect what's owed to me?

/frustrated

Posted by: Bsmith 30.Aug.2018, 11:14 PM

I know a guy named Vito...

Posted by: Frustrated 30.Aug.2018, 11:21 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 31.Aug.2018, 12:14 AM) *
I know a guy named Vito...


...tell me more

Posted by: Gjeebes 31.Aug.2018, 03:45 AM

Wow, seems there is no limit to the long list of feckless Swedish agencies.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 31.Aug.2018, 05:13 AM

Vito?

The big guy from Nunzio's Boom Boom Room...

Posted by: Frustrated 31.Aug.2018, 08:00 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 31.Aug.2018, 04:45 AM) *
Wow, seems there is no limit to the long list of feckless Swedish agencies.


Sweet :/

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 31.Aug.2018, 08:27 AM

How to get blood from a stone?

Squeeze it so hard until it breaks. Sometimes you need a vice, a group of friends to help, a bat, a hammer.

Posted by: Frustrated 31.Aug.2018, 10:03 AM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 31.Aug.2018, 09:27 AM) *
Squeeze it so hard until it breaks. Sometimes you need a vice, a group of friends to help, a bat, a hammer.


I've thought about all this, believe me, but I'd like to stay within the limits of the law and ethics for the most part. Maybe it's possible, for example, to sell debt...anybody heard of that?

Posted by: BlackfDes 31.Aug.2018, 10:09 AM

I have some bikie friends who might be able to help. rolleyes.gif

But I take no responsibility for any future interactions, particularly if they continue to visit you weekly after they successfully gather your money. unsure.gif

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 31.Aug.2018, 10:57 AM

QUOTE (Frustrated @ 31.Aug.2018, 11:03 AM) *
I've thought about all this, believe me, but I'd like to stay within the limits of the law and ethics for the most part. Maybe it's possible, for example, to sell debt...anybody heard of that?


Isn't that just going into debt with someone else basically?

Of course stay within your moral limits. What is your relationship to the person, how much do they owe you and what for if you don't mind me asking. If you don't mind me asking, also, where you are from and where this person is from?

Maybe you can get them to give you some kind of collateral for the time until they have the money?

Posted by: Frustrated 31.Aug.2018, 11:13 AM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 31.Aug.2018, 11:57 AM) *
Isn't that just going into debt with someone else basically?

Of course stay within your moral limits. What is your relationship to the person, how much do they owe you and what for if you don't mind me asking. If you don't mind me asking, also, where you are from and where this person is from?

Maybe you can get them to give you some kind of collateral for the time until they have the money?


Where I come from, there are companies who buy debt. Basically, someone owes you 10, they buy it for 7. You get 7 and the company gets the 10 from the person who owes you. I'm not going into debt with someone else, but I transfer their debt and take a percentage so I don't have to deal with it anymore.

I have no relationship or contact with the person – it's all over sublet gone bad, and after Hyresnamnden and court, they owe me around 30k. The person in question is Swedish, I'm from elsewhere, more than that I won't say. I'm not interested in any collaterals or deals from this person – I offered plenty of opportunity for negotiation, which was met with a figurative middle finger.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 31.Aug.2018, 11:23 AM

No need to say where u are from. My curiosity was more a worry for you being from somewhere else and the perpetrator a native... So they might have a leg up in the situation.

30k is a lot and I understand you just want the money and situation done.

I don't know any businesses like that. Google it I guess? Maybe someone else will chime in with info.

I sincerely hope the best for you in this situation!

Posted by: ChocOwl 31.Aug.2018, 11:44 AM

I doubt any debt-collecting company would be interested in "buying" the debt, sounds like a very high risk that it will be difficult to collect.
Can you get some advice from Kronofogden?
Maybe you can apply for the person to be declared bankrupt? ("konkurs")

Posted by: Frustrated 31.Aug.2018, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 31.Aug.2018, 12:23 PM) *
No need to say where u are from. My curiosity was more a worry for you being from somewhere else and the perpetrator a native... So they might have a leg up in the situation.
...
I sincerely hope the best for you in this situation!


This is the situation. Thanks

QUOTE (ChocOwl @ 31.Aug.2018, 12:44 PM) *
I doubt any debt-collecting company would be interested in "buying" the debt, sounds like a very high risk that it will be difficult to collect.
Can you get some advice from Kronofogden?
Maybe you can apply for the person to be declared bankrupt? ("konkurs")


I've seen this on the KF website. Do I have any interest in getting that person bankrupt? Where I come from when you go bankrupt your debts are cleared and the people/companies you owe get nothing from you (of course any/all assets are first seized/divvied up among the creditors and you get zero credit from anyone for around 10 years).

Yesterday I responded to KF with a request for more information, but they're notorious (at least to me) for 3–5 word replies to complex questions.

Posted by: ChocOwl 31.Aug.2018, 02:27 PM

QUOTE (Frustrated @ 31.Aug.2018, 01:01 PM) *
I've seen this on the KF website. Do I have any interest in getting that person bankrupt? Where I come from when you go bankrupt your debts are cleared and the people/companies you owe get nothing from you (of course any/all assets are first seized/divvied up among the creditors and you get zero credit from anyone for around 10 years).

If the person has an income I think you will get some of it until the debt is paid - if they are bankrupt they sort of lose control over their finances.

Posted by: john.boy 31.Aug.2018, 05:48 PM

QUOTE (Frustrated @ 30.Aug.2018, 11:30 PM) *
I get a letter today from KF that the debtor has in sufficient resources to pay the debt (!) and they will make another investigation sometime before the year 2020. Do any of you know of any recourse I might have to actually collect what's owed to me?

Which bit of the letter do you not understand?
How do you expect to collect something the person does not have via other recourse?

KF have told you the situation. Maybe you do not understand how things work in Sweden.
When KF receive the Court order for collection, they will check the persons income, capital assets, go to their home to check what possessions they can take and sell. They cannot just take anything and everything, law does protect a basic minimum existence, including certain listed possessions. They have seem to have done all this and come to the conclusion that the person does not have anything, I repeat anything! they can touch, including income. This does not mean the game is over, as they have told you, they will keep the court order, and sometime before 2020 revisit the case to see if the situation has changed, and if it has they will try to recover your debt.

It is that simple and straight forward. You just have to wait. KF are very effective at what they do, when debtors even have minimal things to recover. In this case, they have found nothing. This is why the majority of people in Sweden dread anything landing with KF!

There isn't much you can do but wait. Mind you, if you have other info of possessions, income, assets the debtor has, pass that on to KF. They will act.

Posted by: Frustrated 31.Aug.2018, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (john.boy @ 31.Aug.2018, 06:48 PM) *
Which bit of the letter do you not understand?
How do you expect to collect something the person does not have via other recourse?


I did misunderstand part of the letter. I took it to a Swedish speaker at work today who informed me that "investigation finished" and "check back in 2020" means only that they checked for liquid assets, and registered property (real estate, vehicles, businesses) of which there were none. That issue will be taken up in 2020, but in the mean time, what my colleague said and was confirmed later today by a response from KF, is that KF will now start entering her residence/storage and taking movable property that can be liquidated.

QUOTE (john.boy @ 31.Aug.2018, 06:48 PM) *
KF have told you the situation. Maybe you do not understand how things work in Sweden.
When KF receive the Court order for collection, they will check the persons income, capital assets, go to their home to check what possessions they can take and sell. They cannot just take anything and everything, law does protect a basic minimum existence, including certain listed possessions. They have seem to have done all this and come to the conclusion that the person does not have anything, I repeat anything! they can touch, including income. This does not mean the game is over, as they have told you, they will keep the court order, and sometime before 2020 revisit the case to see if the situation has changed, and if it has they will try to recover your debt.

It is that simple and straight forward. You just have to wait. KF are very effective at what they do, when debtors even have minimal things to recover. In this case, they have found nothing. This is why the majority of people in Sweden dread anything landing with KF!

There isn't much you can do but wait. Mind you, if you have other info of possessions, income, assets the debtor has, pass that on to KF. They will act.

I understand all that, but in my experience so far and what I hear from other (even Swedish) people, most Swedish government institutions aren't very effective (no offence), so I was looking to see if there was some sort of alternative, e.g. like I mentioned above, selling the debt to a private firm and letting them wait for it, while I take a percentage hit but get it now. Or maybe something can be done via my or their home/personal insurance (?) ... I don't know. As my username suggests, I'm just frustrated by the whole situation. Reading the local since I've been in Sweden, but this is the first thing that compelled me to really ask for advice.

What really get's my goat is that this person stole money from me, I have to take a loan to cover living expenses in the meantime, and while I'm paying off my loan from money that I earn with my job to cover what was stolen, this unemployed scumbag just kicks back and nothing. If it were up to me the court would pay to plaintiffs in small claims cases like this and the debt recovered by them or the tax authorities – maybe they wouldn't be so nonchalant about the wait times.

Are there any criminal penalties that can be levied when someone steals/doesn't pay debts? In my country, this person would have 30 days to pay/start a payment schedule after the court decision. If not they're put in jail.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 31.Aug.2018, 07:28 PM

If you were able to cover the 30k then I would say don't stress over it, you took the legal steps, and you will hopefully get a nice surprise 30k down the road when you have forgotten about the mess.


Edit... I didn't see your last post, must have posted around same time.

I don't know to what extent they'll liquidate their belongings but I hope it works out.

I wonder how the visiting process goes. If it is surprise, short notice- 30 min, or long notice- a day...

Anyone know

Posted by: Frustrated 31.Aug.2018, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 31.Aug.2018, 08:28 PM) *
If you were able to cover the 30k then I would say don't stress over it, you took the legal steps, and you will hopefully get a nice surprise 30k down the road when you have forgotten about the mess.

Well, I had to take a loan, with interest of course. For some time I pay that back instead of into my savings, which I had mostly used up moving to Sweden, or other investments.

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 31.Aug.2018, 08:28 PM) *
I don't know to what extent they'll liquidate their belongings but I hope it works out.

I wonder how the visiting process goes. If it is surprise, short notice- 30 min, or long notice- a day...

Anyone know

There are some things they can't take – beds, I suppose, just for example. Luxury items, tools, electronics, all fair game. You can read about it on the KF website, and they also link to an auction where the sell repossessed stuff if anybody wants to check out what kind of stuff is up.

I'm also curious about the process. If anyone has seen/experienced it, pls tell! It would be stupid to give much notice, then a debtor could simply move their valuables to friends/relatives (which, btw, I think is where the person in this case is keeping liquid assets).

Posted by: Bsmith 31.Aug.2018, 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Frustrated @ 31.Aug.2018, 06:28 PM) *
What really get's my goat is that this person stole money from me, I have to take a loan to cover living expenses in the meantime, and while I'm paying off my loan from money that I earn with my job to cover what was stolen, this unemployed scumbag just kicks back and nothing. If it were up to me the court would pay to plaintiffs in small claims cases like this and the debt recovered by them or the tax authorities – maybe they wouldn't be so nonchalant about the wait times.


It burns me when the criminal has more rights than the law abiding citizen. You got ripped off, and when it's all over and done with, you will be the one left holding the bag.

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