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Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness to meet Queen

What do you think about that idiot

cbgbg
post 22.Jun.2012, 07:43 PM
Post #1
Joined: 17.Mar.2012

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18552221

Personally i think they should have shoot him and Gerry Adams a long time ago. Terrorists bastards. There will never be peace in Northern Ireland as it is not political it´s religious now. It´s been going on since about 1600
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cbgbg
post 22.Jun.2012, 08:33 PM
Post #2
Joined: 17.Mar.2012

Ps. Any Americans that moan should remember NORAID
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skogsbo
post 22.Jun.2012, 09:34 PM
Post #3
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

It's rare for me to not like the Queen, but I think she has possibly taken poor advice on this one and could have refused to meet. He could sit and is entitled to house of commons office privileges, but he refused on the grounds of his political beliefs and being anti royalist.
That said, it could, just perhaps, send a message to the catholic and extremist element on both sides of the Irish border and potentially save lives in the long run, only history will tell.

Having done many years in the British military serving the Queen I despise him and Adams, but the meeting could just save civvy lives and even some of those people I worked with, prior to my retirement. I can rise above my disgust and hatred, in the hope that others can too.

Op/cbgc.. if you have personally lost close relatives in recent times over there, then I can understand your perspective and yes its probably wise for 'some' Americans to keep quiet, funny how now the war on terror encompasses both terrorists and 'their' funding many Americans have lost their allegiance to 300 year old ancestors on both sides of the divide!
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The Nine
post 23.Jun.2012, 12:32 AM
Post #4
Joined: 10.Aug.2006

QUOTE (cbgbg @ 22.Jun.2012, 07:43 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18552221Personally i think they should have shoot him and Gerry Adams a long time ago. Terrorists bastards. There will never be p ... (show full quote)

I think you are bang wrong. I am English but let us not just buy into the PR we are fed by our own country. As you say, the Anglo Irish issue has run for centuries. It started because the French tried to invade England via Ireland. Having had their invasion fleet decimated by a storm ( a narrow escape for the English) the English then technically invaded Ireland to close the door to any future French ideas of coming in through the back door. As the English were also doing some serious empire building at the time, they basically annexed the country as a giant farm to feed the empire. Come the early 20th century the Irish fought back (as most country's might do when invaded and subjugated) When the movement took hold, The Brits did actually back down, but having been there so long a referendum was held to let Irish people decided who ruled them.

Most of Ireland voted for a return to Irish governance but Ulster chose to stay governed by the Brits. Their reasoning was simply that under the Brits they had roads, and street lighting, and clean water, and low crime. Stuff that a per-industrialized Southern Ireland was mostly lacking. In 1969, the Brits were forced to protect the people of Ireland who CHOSE to remain governed by England.

Nelson Mandela advocated violent action to over throw the SA regime and was technically a terrorist to South Africans.
Martin McGuiness fought to overthrow those who had annexed his country with no right to do so. If someone invaded England (or Sweden) today, wouldn't people fight for what they see as their rights and way of life? History is written by the victors and their view is taken as right.

Since The dark Lord Mandelsson took the bull by the horns and sorted it out, Martin McGuiness and Jerry Adams have publicly renounced violent struggle and worked really hard to find a common ground. They deserve credit for that.

Like Mandela, as ideological younger men they were prepared to take up arms, but just like dear ol' Nelson, you get older and wiser and realize that dialogue is a better weapon.

Martin McGuniness has been a very calming influence on those who might still be dissident Irish republicans, and shit would still be flying if it was not for his work. I think he has proved himself. You also have to remember that not only is the Queen prepared to shake his hand, he is prepared to shake hers.

As with Mandela, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Sometimes you have to move on and work for the future without dwelling on the past.
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Mo
post 23.Jun.2012, 06:51 AM
Post #5
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 30.Nov.2005

QUOTE (The Nine @ 23.Jun.2012, 01:32 AM) *
Like Mandela, as ideological younger men they were prepared to take up arms, but just like dear ol' Nelson, you get older and wiser and realize that dialogue is a better weapon.

ditto The Queen has had to meet a wide variety of unpleasant people over the years - as she meets other rulers it is an inherent part of her job. McGuinness has certainly had a violent past but as The Nine says has progressed towards peace and Northern Ireland is an infinitely better place for it.
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jack sprat
post 23.Jun.2012, 10:44 AM
Post #6
Joined: 15.Sep.2006

I'm all for peace and harmony, but I believe this will prove to be one step too far for many of the present generation.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 23.Jun.2012, 03:24 PM
Post #7
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

I think the Queen is very gracious; considering that the IRA killed her cousin (Lord Mountbatten) and the anniversary is in August...let's see how it plays.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2511545.stm
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Flutterbye
post 23.Jun.2012, 04:21 PM
Post #8
Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 11.Feb.2010

The Queen always wears gloves when meeting ppl so she doesn't have to touch this mans skin. angry.gif
Hopefully someone will burn the gloves when she takes them off.
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sometimesinsweden
post 23.Jun.2012, 05:26 PM
Post #9
Joined: 15.Jun.2012

Reconciliation since the Good Friday Agreement amongst the vast majority of Northern Irish people has given them nearly 15 years of peace that would have been unforeseeable 30 years ago. This has been made possible in the main by forgiveness and acceptance by letting go of grudges. There is no reason why the Queen should be any different.

There's a lot of unanswered questions about Mountbattern, the sexual circles he mixed in and the reason why the IRA decided to target him at such an advanced age and him being one of the few peers who was pro-reunification, despite having many opportunities in the 30 years running up to his assassination.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 23.Jun.2012, 11:20 PM
Post #10
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 22.Jun.2012, 09:34 PM) *
It's rare for me to not like the Queen, but I think she has possibly taken poor advice on this one and could have refused to meet. He could sit and is entitled to house of ... (show full quote)

Hey Skogsbo!

I understand your words...I was married to an Armagh Catholic women... I had a hard time understanding her...nobody can understand, unless they lived it...needless to say we were at odds on more than one occasion...and it can't be described without a side being taken... then, it was no understanding at all...let the peace process proceed now and hope for a better future.

My Daughter on a trip to visit relatives had a soldier point a gun at her...nobody should live like that...the soldier was fearful of a strange person close to him...Hell, they were both so young(teenager's)to be in a situation like that...it's not right...

Old hatreds die slow...hopefully it's time to put them to rest.

GH
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StephenR
post 24.Jun.2012, 11:59 AM
Post #11
Location: Stockholm county
Joined: 27.May.2011

QUOTE (sometimesinsweden @ 23.Jun.2012, 06:26 PM) *
Reconciliation since the Good Friday Agreement amongst the vast majority of Northern Irish people has given them nearly 15 years of peace that would have been unforeseeable 30 ... (show full quote)

There has been a reconciliation amongst the tops of society - on the ground, reality is far different. There is certainly far less violence in the past but this is a product of war weariness and the fact the two communities are far less likely to meet each other. Communities are far more segregated than ever before and the percentages of young people who have never met or never interact with members of the other community are higher than ever. Sectarianism hasn't gone or been reconciled away - it's just not as apparent anymore. For the moment at least.
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StephenR
post 24.Jun.2012, 12:03 PM
Post #12
Location: Stockholm county
Joined: 27.May.2011

QUOTE (The Nine @ 23.Jun.2012, 01:32 AM) *
When the movement took hold, The Brits did actually back down, but having been there so long a referendum was held to let Irish people decided who ruled them.Most of Ireland v ... (show full quote)

Where did you learn your history? There as never any referendum.
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jack sprat
post 24.Jun.2012, 12:19 PM
Post #13
Joined: 15.Sep.2006

The Queen made a brave,historic and successfull visit to the Irish republic last year.
A lot of goodwill seemed to arise from the visit but I think it's too early, unnecessary and risky to try pushing things any further at the present time.

If it all goes pear-shaped due to the actions of a stupid minority,much of the previous good work could be wasted.
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skogsbo
post 24.Jun.2012, 12:58 PM
Post #14
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (StephenR @ 24.Jun.2012, 11:59 AM) *
There has been a reconciliation amongst the tops of society - on the ground, reality is far different. There is certainly far less violence in the past but this is a product o ... (show full quote)

all true, it may not make the mainland tv or papers very often. But there is still plenty of sectarian killings and violence, organised crime etc.. especially since the recession. It just only gets reported in the local news over there now. The numbers of terrorist on both sides is certainly less, but they are certainly the most hard line and determined of them, it's unlikely that some would ever consider peace and will continue their struggle, on both sides of the divide, until they draw their last breath. The trick is to avoid this hatred being passed down to the next generation, even then true peace must be at least 2 generations away at present.
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StephenR
post 24.Jun.2012, 01:26 PM
Post #15
Location: Stockholm county
Joined: 27.May.2011

I'd agree on the numbers issue, that there has been a decline and there is certainly less of a pool to recruit from now but it is worth bearing in mind that huge numbers of paramilitary members or ex-paramilitary members have been somewhat drawn in the state and community bureaucracies, and it is particularly true amongst the loyalist groups and community organisations. Part of the "peace dividend" (which has never really materialised and will potentially lay the basis for future conflict) was that extra money was pumped into the communities towards the voluntary / local NGO sectors and it has sucked many of the foot soldiers out of violence but with the recession and increasing cuts, these jobs are already drying up.
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