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The Local _ Family _ Help.. my kids step dad is out of order

Posted by: Bishop Conkers 10.May.2006, 02:27 PM

Advice time..

I have been sitting on this for what seems like ages, but it infact reared it's ugly head on Monday. (2 days ago).

I am a Brit, have lived in Sweden for 14 years and have tow children with a Swedish girl, we split up 7-8 years ago, and the kids spend a week with me and a week with her and her partner.

I have good contact with their mother, and their step-dad seems like a decent chap, but it would seem this is only on the surface.

Last weekend my son (12) and the step-dad got into a row, it's not important what it was about, but my son slapped him in the face, he says it wasn't on purpose, not that it matters whether it was an accident or not, it was wrong and he knows that.
Anyway, the step dad then grabbed my sons arm and was thrashing him around, shouting and screaming, he was beside himself with rage, my son who is normally so calm and reasoned was so scared that he peed himself. (it's not a problem he has EVER had before.

My ex-wife was the one who called me crying and it took an hour for me to calm her down... my son- he doesn't want to talk about it, and when I questioned him, he started crying too...

The Brit/Father in me wants to do what my dad would have done, go round there and smack six bales of sh1t out of the step-dad, make it clear that if he lays a finger on my son (or daughter) ever again that I will work him over.
The sensible (swedish-ised) part of me knows that this action will result in a police report and serious charges, as well as not really doing anything to help with the problem.
My daughter (9) is more open and tells me everything, rather than bottling things up, she says that the step-dad has never hit them, but he grabs there arms or shoulders and shakes them, and I interpret this as probably as close to a beating as most Swedish children ever get from parents.

My daughter says that when her mum and step-dad have rows, she goes to her room and puts a pillow on her head so she doesn't have to hear them... my son says he goes to his room and reads a book with his walkman on...

I have told them that if this happens again, they do not need to be in that environment, and they can call me, I will come collect them and they can stay with me until it blows over...

But my dilemma... what should I do?

Sensible advice please... simply telling me to go smack the beejeesus out of him is not welcomed.

Conk.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 02:30 PM

As always it's easier to give an advice than to actually do it. But I would probably try talking to that guy and look him straight into the eyes and tell him that this better not happen again, and then stare him in the eyes. And maybe say that if this happens again I will have to take action. (he can interpret action in whatever way he wants)

Posted by: Edward 10.May.2006, 02:32 PM

I would have serious words with this guy it if he wants to shout at your ex and she can live with that then fine, but your children come first they should not have to put up with that shit. I have a similiar situation and if ant thing like that happened to my child I would feel liking beating the crap out of the bastard. Best advice get legal advice about full custody better to be prepared than unprepared.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 02:35 PM

i think you need to sit down with the other party and explain your fears for the kids, go somewhere on mutual ground, find out why he behaves like this i am in a similar position i have a new partner and so does my ex, but if my ex's partner layed one finger on my son i would retract contact until i got it sorted, same with my partner ,he leaves all the disipline with me he knows that if he ever touched my son other than play fighting he would be out!! for whatever reason a child needs to feel safe in their home shouting and the kids being scared will do some dammage, any form of pulling etc is just bullying and you need to nip it in the bud
they have had enough trauma with the splitting of parents as it is they need a safe haven not a battleground see someone legal before its too late

Posted by: Aneud 10.May.2006, 02:37 PM

It does sound like a difficult situation and I'd like to start by congratulating you for keeping your head clear and presenting things in a collected manner which further suggests you're balancing your emotional and rational part quite admirably.

Indeed beating sense into him would be dangerous but not only for the potential legal repercusions but because you are at this point providing the calm, peaceful oasis for your children whereas if you engage in violence they'll lose faith in that.

The dad they need to call to get away from conflict is always on top of things and can deal with them rationally, he'd talk rather than shake or scream so maybe that's just what you could attempt. Maybe you could find some one-on-one time with the stepdad and let him know in no uncertain terms that he needs to stop that sort of behaviour. Especially since if I understand right, that can easily qualify as emotional abuse and in Sweden as opposed to other places it's prosecuted -if I have the right info-. If that's so you could subtlely mention that as well, let him know you would not want to resort to that but will be forced to if he can't control his rage around your children.

That's my 2 SEK, hope it helps and again, congratulations on the attitude.

Posted by: Mike 10.May.2006, 03:10 PM

Conk, I'm really sorry to hear this news. I hope your kids don't suffer any permanent trauma from this.

The answer to your dilema is quite simple: Never let your kids go to mom's place again without you, unless she dumps her boyfriend. If that means, in practicality, that your kids live with you from now on, so be it. You know it's the right thing to do.

Don't fool yourself with "if this ever happens again" bullshit. You know it will happen again. You cannot subject your kids to being in the same house with that animal another minute. It's your duty to protect them.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 03:22 PM

Conkers...

My two kronor (sorry beth)...

Gosh...I wish I knew what to say to offer comfort. Your situation sounds absolutely horrific.

As the child of divorced and re-married parents...my perspective is not the most positive. My step-father is an absolute turd. A zero in the parenting department, actually. And he was fueled and inspired by my crazy mother.

Your children are quite young. They have yet to hit the part of their lives when they turn into sulky, unreasonable adolescents. If your ex's partner has such a short fuse now...what will happen when they reach puberty and start to really challenge him?

Do I think taking the step-fester out for a beating is a good idea? Absolutely not. But I do not believe in the "one-time" only bit. If he has shaken your children, screamed at them or abused them emotionally, chances are he is going to do it again. Sadly, it is just a matter of time.

Your children do not need to grow up in a house of discord. The implications and subsequent effects will be far too damaging to them and will carry through to adulthood, making interpersonal relationships very challenging for them.

If you can pursuade this jackass to seek counseling, that may help. But I'm not so sure. Do I advocate your yanking them away from their mother? Absolutely not. I would, however, issue a firm warning to your ex about this situation.

I am not sure if this blather is remotely helpful. But I will be more than happy to lend an ear whenever you may need it. I feel for you, your children and your hellish situation. Feel free to e-mail me at marniemarnie @ gmail.com. I do not have much to offer other than moral support.

*hugs

/Marnie

Posted by: Bishop Conkers 10.May.2006, 03:25 PM

I am a fairly calm and level-headed person, but on the few times that I have lost my temper, it gets ugly... for this reason I do not want to meet this guy face-to-face with the sole purpose of bringing this up. So I sent him an email, this will eaither defuse the situation (if he really is a good guy, but just has some problems right now, or, if he is not so decent, then this should bring the rat out of his hole. Either way, I'll be keeping a close eye on the situation until this is sorted out..

Here is the email I sent to him about an hour ago.. (I have removed thier names):


I have been sitting on this thought for a few days now, I don't want to make the situation between you and I uncomfortable, but I see no way to avoid making the following statement :

I am concerned about the kids being left alone with you when xxxxx(the mother) isn't there.

I demand that you respect the rights my children have as human beings and I will not tolerate any form of physical or psychological aggression towards them.

This point is not up for discussion.

Two strikes and you are out. Have I made myself clear?

Mike

So. that's it... I hope this sorts itself out for everyones best interests, whenever I have met him, he has always been such a nice guy.. the model father it would seem... although my ex-wife says it is more a case that his 13 yr old som from a previous marriage is just sh1t scared of him...

Conk.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 03:27 PM

That was nicely put Conker, one can't say that you went to far or anything, at least now you can show that you've tried to deal with the situation if it would go any further. And I swear most people would write in a much more aggresive way. That doesn't mean that you didn't do enough, it just means that you can control yourself.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 03:28 PM

Conk ol' boy, Kangster is correct.

One time is once too many -- they're not his kids and even if they were, he should know better. Tell him to his face that you aren't happy with what has happened and that he'd better stop it at that - otherwise you'll report him next time. Simple, non-intrusive and if that doesn't work, the authorities can step in and help out.

Out of curiousity, what does the ex-missus have to say about all of this?

Hope it works out for the best mate!


Cheers,
David.

Posted by: Mike 10.May.2006, 03:30 PM

I mostly agree with Kang, but face it, the step father is not going to change, and the only way to get mom to realize this is to change the conditions of the visitation rights. As long as the kids stay there, nothing will change. Your ex wife will stay with the loser, and things will get worse for your kids.

Tell your ex (not in front of the kids) that the kids are no longer safe in her home, and that she can either kick step dad out or prepare for a court battle.

Posted by: Mike 10.May.2006, 03:36 PM

Think about this:

Even if step-dad never lost his temper again, do you want your son to have to see this guy every day, a person who made him wet himself? It's psychological torture.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 03:39 PM

i think everyone has made good pointers for you conky,not sure about email though how do you know he hasn't blocked his mail face the retched brute man to man (no violence) or speak to your'e ex firmly but fairly these are you're kids too, , she needs to look at what is going on around her maybe she is so wrapped up in him she can't see the wood for the trees somethings gotta give and you as a dad have to do whats right
as with kangy if you just want to vent out some anger i'm here to listen,, i really do feel for you .zoe [dot] rush [at] ntlworld.com
good luck
/zoe x

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 03:44 PM

QUOTE (Mike)
Think about this:

Even if step-dad never lost his temper again, do you want your son to have to see this guy every day, a person who made him wet himself? It's psychological torture.


Most importantly...this "step-father" is a role model for them. We, developmentally, learn from the actions of our parents and figures of discipline and/or authority. Sadly...any child is going to be programmed to handle anger with aggression if the child stays in such an unhealthy environment and only sees destructive behaviour patterns as a response to an unsavory situation.

I hate to sound melo-dramatic. I really do. It's not my MO, here.

Perhaps I'm so very passionate about it as I have been spending years trying to deprogram myself from the shit I picked up along the way.

Posted by: Diana E 10.May.2006, 03:47 PM

The net is NOT the place to get too personal- let me just say that my kids grew up with a horror of father, who promised to 'never do it again.' Women and children who live with men who behave this way are in no position to clearly assess danger and get out of it. It falls to you, the father, to protect your kids, and that means having them live with you. Your ex may appear to be completely rational and on top of the situation, but she isn't, and you have to trust those of us who have lived through this- the hitting gets worse as the kids get older, often times. No emails, no more discussions- kids come to you until Bad Boy is out of the picture.

The worst kind of hell you can imagine is NOTHING compared to having to live in a home where violence happens. Trust me, you don't wanna hear my story, and I don't share it, anyway, but take my word on this issue. It NEVER gets better.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 03:52 PM

*hugs for Diana

You're right. It never gets better. The pain...it only dulls...but it doesn't go away.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 04:26 PM

There's more to this than meets the eye. I can't imagine a 12 year old slapping an adult - what exactly does this say about your son's respect for this man and his own belief that he would not receive some fitting punishment?

I agree that the mans actions were out of order, but what else lies behind this? Has he suffered a period of disrespect and is unable to assert his authority in any other way?

I think you should be asking questions, perhaps through a mediator, not issuing threats. You run the risk of polarising the dispute and your ex-wife may well go back to his side in order to maintain the family home.

A friend of mine in the UK had his second marriage break up because his wifes kids treated him like crap, were totally undisciplined and she didn't support him.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 04:48 PM

QUOTE (Rk)
There's more to this than meets the eye. I can't imagine a 12 year old slapping an adult - what exactly does this say about your son's respect for this man and his own belief that he would not receive some fitting punishment?


OUCH!!!!!!!

QUOTE (Rk)
I agree that the mans actions were out of order, but what else lies behind this? Has he suffered a period of disrespect and is unable to assert his authority in any other way?


Given this adult's inability to control this child, in your perspective, you advocate the use of violence? Why should any child suffer any form of abuse because the parent/authority figure is neither emotionally equipped nor capable of dealing with said child?

QUOTE (Rk)
I think you should be asking questions, perhaps through a mediator, not issuing threats. You run the risk of polarising the dispute and your ex-wife may well go back to his side in order to maintain the family home.


You make an interesting statement. However, Conkers is the father and does have the rights, within the scope of the law, to make judgment calls regarding his children's respective welfare.

QUOTE (Rk)
A friend of mine in the UK had his second marriage break up because his wifes kids treated him like crap, were totally undisciplined and she didn't support him.


I'm sorry your friend was treated poorly by his wife's children. That does not, however, allow any adult to engage in (equally) childish behaviour or abuse. Period.

She, his partner, chose not to support him. That's between partners and has absolutely nothing to do with the children. Unruly or not...when you're the adult in the situation, act like it. Order family counseling, leave, do whatever...but never, ever take one's angst/aggression out on children in such a fashion. They do not have the reasoning abilities to process where the hate comes from and abusive behaviour scars for life.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into your message, but it smacks of whiny behaviour and self-loathing. Is this another instance of someone marrying or getting involved with a partner who has children from a previous relationship and regretting it? It's not as if the children just magically appear. They have been part of the equation the entire time. To think that the road travelled is going to be littered with flowers is simply unrealistic.

Posted by: Diana E 10.May.2006, 05:03 PM

Must-refrain-from-chiming-in. Oh good, I don't need to, Kang has done it for me, she of the lightning fingers.

In what universe is a 12 year old, or any child, considered equal to an adult ? In what universe does a child ask for an assault from a step dad? Don't tell me that a boy slapping a father justifies the older, stronger adult in retaliating. The balance of power is strongly tilted to the adult, who, legally, is assumed to be able to control himself. In Sweden, where these children live, such behavior exhibited by the adult is probably illegal. Men often like to say that children are driving a wedge between themselves and their partners, but, viewed objectively, it is the man's behavior, and his choice to indulge in controlling and abusive behavior, that drives the wedge.

Oh man. I don't like it when I get this YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND HOW BAD THIS IS feeling. Let's just say that most recent studies on family violence tend to support the view that any form of violence is dangerous for children, and that when such violence makes itself known, it is usually an indicator of other violent and-or controlling behavior. I am not going to get into a debate about spanking, about how Sweden is so nancy girly, about how men react to sass with hits and that's how you learn your kids. I don't have to. If you want to learn for yourself, do a search on PubMed, for peer-reviewed articles that describe the latest studies. If you don't want to do that, if you're happy believing that kids deserve to be hit, then there isn't anything I want to say to you.

Will-now-stop-preaching.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 05:12 PM

Kang, the point I am trying to make is that it is in the best interests of child, father, to find out what lies behind this situation. It is absolutely not usual for a 12 year boy to hit an adult.

I absolutely do not agree with any form or abuse or violence against children - but instead of jumping onto the domestic violence bandwaggon, lets remember that this is apparently the first violent act (and remember he did not hit the child) in the 7 or 8 years since living with this man.

You are reading too much into my message. FYI, I have two kids who live with my ex-wife and her partner. The boys have a good relationship with him (as I still do with my ex-wife and her partner). Also I was a step father for the 6 years - which while this sambo relationship ended last year, the child wishes to keep on touch with me and plays with my boys when they visit from the UK on holidays.

Not a trace of whiny behaviour and self-loathing here! All is sunny in my garden! ;-)

Posted by: FR 10.May.2006, 05:23 PM

QUOTE (Conkers)
...
Last weekend my son (12) and the step-dad got into a row, it's not important what it was about, but my son slapped him in the face, he says it wasn't on purpose, not that it matters whether it was an accident or not, it was wrong and he knows that.
Anyway, the step dad then grabbed my sons arm and was thrashing him around, shouting and screaming, he was beside himself with rage, my son who is normally so calm and reasoned was so scared that he peed himself. (it's not a problem he has EVER had before.
...


Perhaps it is important what it was about. I also can't imagine a situation where one person slaps another in the face accidently during an argument. The stepfather did not hit back, but did grab the arm that slapped him? Thrashing him about... towards his room or just to fling him through the air? Perhaps your son was so scared because the stepfather would usually ignore such behavior? Unexpected behavior from someone can be very scary.

My only advice is to get the full story from all witnesses before drawing any conclusions as there is always more than one side to a story and to address the issue that started the argument in the first place before it rears its ugly head again. Good luck with it.

Posted by: Yendor 10.May.2006, 05:29 PM

Hello Conkers
A lot of people on this thread are trying to help you by giving you the best advice that they can, and thats nice. But the bottom line is this. Ask your son a simple question, and this is it.

1. Ask your son if he is happy living at your Xs home 50% of the time? If his answer is no then ask him the next question.

2. Would you like to live here with me 100% of the time? If his answer is yes then thats your solution. He is 12 so he can make that choice. Your X can try and stop you but if it gos to the courts you sons will to live with you will "weigh heavy" in your favor.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 05:30 PM

QUOTE (Rk)
Kang, the point I am trying to make is that it is in the best interests of child, father, to find out what lies behind this situation. It is absolutely not usual for a 12 year boy to hit an adult.


Oh really, now? Exactly how far along are you on your quest of a PhD in child psych? Children learn the behaviour patterns from where/whom? Dollars to donuts...if a child is in a strife laden environment, that child is going to adopt similar behaviour patterns. And...you do not need a PhD to know that, either.

Ergo...adult hits adult, adult hits child in presence of child...child will assume the same behaviour. Yes it is that simple.

And yes...I have heard worse acting as a "secretary" for my step-fester when parents would call seeking counseling for their ANGRY three year old. Tell me...what makes a three year old angry (overlooking the devil's spawn like Damien)?

QUOTE (Rk)
I absolutely do not agree with any form or abuse or violence against children - but instead of jumping onto the domestic violence bandwaggon, lets remember that this is apparently the first violent act (and remember he did not hit the child) in the 7 or 8 years since living with this man.


Please. The first time is the only warning given. After that, it's unabashed recidivism. The golden rule that states if they did it once, they will do it again circulates for a reason.

QUOTE (Rk)
You are reading too much into my message. FYI, I have two kids who live with my ex-wife and her partner. The boys have a good relationship with him (as I still do with my ex-wife and her partner). Also I was a step father for the 6 years - which while this sambo relationship ended last year, the child wishes to keep on touch with me and plays with my boys when they visit from the UK on holidays.

Not a trace of whiny behaviour and self-loathing here! All is sunny in my garden! ;-)


The whiny behaviour I was alluding to is that of your pal, not you. Many people enter into relationships with partners who have children completely unprepared or unwilling to assume the responsibility of discipline, love and all of the other trappings that go along with being a parent. Then...when things go sour, they blame the children. Always the children...never fault with the adult.

It's rather silly to blame those who have no control over the situation, is it not?

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 05:32 PM

QUOTE (Rodney)
Hello Conkers
A lot of people on this thread are trying to help you by giving you the best advice that they can, and thats nice. But the bottom line is this. Ask your son a simple question, and this is it.

1. Ask your son if he is happy living at your Xs home 50% of the time? If his answer is no then ask him the next question.

2. Would you like to live here with me 100% of the time? If his answer is yes then thats your solution. He is 12 so he can make that choice. Your X can try and stop you but if it gos to the courts you sons will to live with you will "weigh heavy" in your favor.
if only it was that simple :roll:

Posted by: Yendor 10.May.2006, 05:45 PM

Hi blondie.
Its almost that simple. How do i know? When my son turned 12 a few years ago i went all through this question with my attorney here in Sweden. Its not a "slam dunk" deal but if it ends up in court and this 12 year old kid wants to live at his dads 100% and gives some good reasons why then its a done deal. Believe me!

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 05:46 PM

Kang, seems to me you are perhaps projecting your own experiences onto this situation.

Instead of a blinkered view ask yourself how a weedy 12 year boy who is probably around 1.5m high and weighes perhaps 40kg has the bottle to slap a fully grown man. I was in plenty of playground fights as a kid and would never have considered hitting an adult.

Until this situation, there was apparently no evidence of abuse - Conk considered the guy OK until now. Surely if there was any history his kids would have mentioned something before.

I refuse to be baited by your other comments.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Rk)
Kang, seems to me you are perhaps projecting your own experiences onto this situation.


Is life not but a mirror image of one's experiences? Or must one rely completely on that of a friend to form an opinion?

QUOTE (Rk)
Instead of a blinkered view ask yourself how a weedy 12 year boy who is probably around 1.5m high and weighes perhaps 40kg has the bottle to slap a fully grown man. I was in plenty of playground fights as a kid and would never have considered hitting an adult.


Again...back to developmental psych...children repeat what they observe. Typically, one does not stumble upon aggression. It is rooted in the psyche by the actions (or inactions) of others.

QUOTE (Rk)
Until this situation, there was apparently no evidence of abuse - Conk considered the guy OK until now. Surely if there was any history his kids would have mentioned something before.


Correct you are, sir. Let us not overlook that there is a beginning to every situation, though. Violence and aggression are harbingers of things to come.

QUOTE (Rk)
I refuse to be baited by your other comments.


It appears you have discovered my true intent, which is to derail the thread from its original purpose and verbally pummel you. Sighs. I wish I were not so transparent at times.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 06:04 PM

QUOTE (Rodney)
Hi blondie.
Its almost that simple. How do i know? When my son turned 12 a few years ago i went all through this question with my attorney here in Sweden. Its not a "slam dunk" deal but if it ends up in court and this 12 year old kid wants to live at his dads 100% and gives some good reasons why then its a done deal. Believe me!
hmm thats interesting info even though my family is all split i'm not sure of the system here in the uk i don't think its that cut and dried i will check it out hopefully i will never have to go down that path though

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 06:15 PM

QUOTE
Again...back to developmental psych...children repeat what they observe. Typically, one does not stumble upon aggression. It is rooted in the psyche by the actions (or inactions) of others.


One shaking in 7 years is not a history of abuse nor does it imply future behaviour. For all anyone knows, this guy may have lost his rag for a variety of reasons and be deeply remorseful.

Give the guy some credit for accepting the kids to begin with and helping create a home for the past 7 years.

My father hit me once on the arm. I was 15 years old and going through the stage of pushing my fathers buttons to assert my indepence as most boys do. I pushed too hard and he reacted. For a split second I very nearly retaliated and had the strong desire to punch him in the face. I didn't, partly due to deep seated respect and also the consequences for our future relationship. He never hit me again. Was he a bad father - no. Was I wrong for pushing him to his limits - yes.

My point and only point is that no-one except the child and man are in possession of the true backround to this. It's in all their interests to find out why this happened. I repeat that in any normal situation a 12 year boy would not consider hitting an adult male - let alone one who he has lived with in an apparently successful family environment to date. There is no suggestion from Conk of historical discord between man and boy.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 06:19 PM

QUOTE (Conkers)
the model father it would seem... although my ex-wife says it is more a case that his 13 yr old som from a previous marriage is just sh1t scared of him...


Just wanted to say that this seems like it could be an indicator of more of a problem than just one incident of him losing his temper.

Posted by: Edward 10.May.2006, 06:30 PM

Why does a boy at twelves years old feel the need to hit out at this man something is not right it takes a lot of anger to strike someone bigger than youreslf and someone who is meant to be an authority figure he has obviously upset the boy before

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 07:34 PM

Hey Conk, I'm sorry you and your kids are in such a shitty situation.

Your job as their parent is to protect your children and provide them the best, safest, most nourishing environment you can. You need to do what you think is best for them. All too often parents get hung up on "respecting the rights" of the other parent and try to be fair to their former partner at the expense of their children's safety and happiness. Your ex is a big girl, she can make her own choices, and if she disagrees with something that you ultimately decide is in your children's best interests, then she has to figure out how to handle that situation.

First: To make a 12 year old child wet himself, something beyond shaking him and yelling was going on. (Unless your son has some sort of bladder infection or simlari problem.) Having been a child that age and having known some, a shaking and some yelling does not make them pee themselves. You need to get your son to talk to you or someone about what is going on. If he won't talk to you, you need to find him a counselor or someone that he feels he can talk with openly. (He may not want to talk because he's embarrassed, because he thinks he will be in trouble, because he thinks it will be a burden for you, or any number of other reasons.)

Second: You need to see a lawyer and find out what the legalities are. He may shape up if he realizes you are serious, but it's better to prepare for the worst. Also find out about whatever sort of court orders are available that will force your ex's partner to stay away when your children are visiting their mother.

Do what you think is in the best interests of your children , listen to their input and concerns, but make sure they know that you are ultimately going to make and take responsibility for any decisions about issues like custody, where they live, etc. What they want is important, but it's also important that they can express those wants without feeling like they are showing favoritism to one parent or another. Do what you think is right.

(That said, I think your ex needs help. I once dumped a boyfriend who hurt my dog. Once. I cannot imagine under what circumstances a woman would keep some shitbag that ever touched her children. This is purely my 2 SEK.)

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Rk)
There is no suggestion from Conk of historical discord between man and boy.


Actually, he did mention that this is not the first time there has been this sort of behavior:
QUOTE (Conkers)
My daughter (9) is more open and tells me everything, rather than bottling things up, she says that the step-dad has never hit them, but he grabs there arms or shoulders and shakes them,


Please, don't try to justify shaking someone else's children. Even if it is "just once."

Posted by: Beth 10.May.2006, 08:00 PM

conk, i don't believe any form of shaking a child, yours or anothers is ever justified. anyway...not to make this a debate, just to say the step dad has NO excuse.

in addition to melanie's advice to get some legal advice regarding where and how to take this, i would suggest you seriously look into some sort of mediation. i don't think the stepdad will just "stop" doing what has been going on and has led to your son's muting on the subject.

on of the reasons i suggest mediation is that it is a benign way to start a process of introducing counselors and if necessary: social services. it starts a paper trail of documenting any form of abuse or improper behavior on the stepdad's part and will allow your children to speak their mind to someone that isn't directly involved.

also, should you need to go down the "court battle" road, you have documentation that you have initiated a peaceful and resolution-aimed process...you are painted as über level-headed and score numerous brownie points.

best of luck to you, and your children.
i'm not talking about shrinks or meddlers, but a neutral party to play referee in the blame game.

Posted by: Fish Eye 10.May.2006, 08:03 PM

Everybody asks what made the kid so angry that he hits his step dad in the face. Well, I think he is pissed off with this guy who fights alot with his mother and he cant do anything about it. He probably feels like he wants to protect his mother when her and the step dad argue and fight and also feels upset about how it upsets his younger sister. I reckon the mom and step dads fighting are taking its toll on the kids and the frustration from the arguing is pushing the step dad over the edge. Time for them to break up because it will only get worse!

Posted by: FR 10.May.2006, 09:22 PM

QUOTE (Chelseaman)
... Swedes like to keep to they own race. its very sad but also true sad.gif


All of the married Swedes I know are married to someone NOT of their own race.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 09:31 PM

I am not saying all >Swedes are bad. I know they are good and bad in every country. But I have heard things from people working in good positions and i have been shocked. I do not live in one of the big citys.

I will tell you a true story what happen to me last year. This is one of many things that has happen to me since i have been living here.
I have my own company and I had a shop in this big buliding, I was there about a year and since I started I had noticed that someone was stealing from me. I said to one of the head man of the buliding that I was sure that someone was stealing from me and he said to me that you must always lock your door because those blacks will still from you. meaning foriegners.
Anyway the next day! Satauday i was starting early at about 7am and noone works on this day, my door was open and I always lock the door. I went in slowly and I caught the VD stealing from my shop. he had the keys to all the premises. The worst thing was that he blacklisted all oss foriegners as thieves and that made me very sad :cry: . Thats high level propaganda :!: :x

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 09:39 PM

Well no matter how you look at it foreigners are overrepresented in crimes, that is a fact. That doesn't mean that all foreigners are bad. The problem is that like I said swedes are very careful, and I heard from a friend about a factory in Göteborg, where they hired a foreigner, and he stole money from them. So internally they said that they wouldn't hire foreigners. It's stupid yes, but since swedes are very careful, the first experience with other cultures will be of high importance, especially for the older swedes that only grew up around swedes. In my class 50% had at least one parent who wasn't swedish, so I grew up with both good and bad foreigners, but when you look at the older swedes, their only experience might be a bad or good one. And if it's a bad one, they might start acting dumb. Personally I've never heard any swedes say anything bad about black people. But im sure that it happens. But it's a bit weird the swedes are being called racists for some stereotypes about foreigners, and then the foreigners do the same thing, and it doesn't count.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 09:47 PM

So if a Swede steals something then i take it they will have noone working at the plant?
You cannot or will not see the probelms your country has. Thats the probelm! And that is a common fact with most swedes.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 09:47 PM

Chelseaman and nothingman, can you stop quoting each other? Makes boring reading... just get to the point, those reading know what you've said.


My advice is simple.

Have words face to face, and tell the stepdad never to touch your kids again.

You don't want to upset your kids further, and this guy is obviously an arse, but have words.

I wouldn't blame you for wanting to twat the geezer though... the authorities aren't likely to lock you up and throw away the key, considering the circumstances and how emotional the whole episode is making you.

Posted by: Guest 10.May.2006, 09:56 PM

QUOTE (Chelseaman)
So if a Swede steals something then i take it they will have noone working at the plant?
You cannot or will not see the probelms your country has. Thats the probelm! And that is a common fact with most swedes.

The problem is related to experience, it seems to be the same thing with you, and juding swedes.

Here's a situation:
A swede grew up in the 40's with no foreigners as friend his whole life. Since there weren't many foreigners coming to Sweden. He's been running a company his entire life, with only swedes. He hires a foreigner one day, and finds out that he is stealing money from the company. It's the only foreigner he's ever had contact with. What do you think his conclusion will be based on that experience? I'm not saying that it's right.

Here's another situation:
I grew up with a lot of foreigners around me. 2 times I was close to getting robbed both times by immigrant gangs, once time someone at school pulled up a knife and had it placed against my troath. That was a foreigner too. The difference is that I have plenty of friends who are foreigners who I have a lot of respect for. So I try to not let get incidents like that get to me. In situation 1 the person didn't have the same experience with different cultures, and base the conclusion based on one experience.

People should also try to remember, that Sweden is a pretty large country in relation to the population, and people are spread around a lot except for a few big cities. And before the 1960's. Sweden basically had 0 foreigners. Sweden isn't England, Sweden isn't Canada or USA, our experience is not at the same level.

When I was 5 I had never seen a black person before, and that is not my fault. It's just that Sweden didn't have many immgrants when I was young. I've told this story before, but im gonna tell it again, and it is not related to racism, it's related to lack of experience. When I was about 5 and watched superman, and saw Richard Pryor, I asked my mom if he was sick. And she looked a bit weird and asked me why I thought that. And I said because he is black. She started to laugh and told me that in certain parts of the world there is more sun and therefore some people become more colored. That is not racism, it's just lack of experience and lack of "exposure". All this is pretty new to Sweden.

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 01:52 AM

Chelseaman and Stebro, go argue in another goddamn thread. There's umpteen million frivolous threads you could decide to debate the Swedish soul in, and you two choose to hijack the one where someone is asking how to deal with someone abusing his children?

For shame, both of you.

Go argue in one of the goddamn Hamas threads if you won't start your own. It's not like we don't have 15 of them.

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Conkers: Beth had some good advice. I can completely understand the urge to pummel the asshole and I admire you for not doing it. No matter how much he deserves it, it's a rotten example to set for your kids and would probably hinder you if you attempt to get full custody at some point.

Posted by: Rachel F 11.May.2006, 10:55 AM

Conkers

It does rather sound as if things have gotten a bit of out of hand lately and that maybe it would be better for all concerned if your children came to live with you for a while.

I have a feeling that I may be playing Devil's Advocate here but I usually find that there are two sides to every story as Rk has pointed out. Before Step Dad is cast in the role of evil child abuser, perhaps this is not the full story. Now I have never touched my children in anger and I am not a shouty person but if my 12 year old slapped me I cannot say for sure how I would react but images of chasing said child around the apartment wielding a broom do spring to mind. I hope that she never would but as adolescence has reared its ugly head, we've had the usual sulking, door slamming, talking back etc and then some parents have to then contend with truancy, shop lifting, bullying and all manner of other joys. It is possible that Conkers' son is pushing all the wrong buttons at the moment (again I stress that I am playing Devil's Advocate) and the step father's reaction was actually fairly measured by comparison. We are all assuming that the child is a little weedy thing and step dad looks like Grisley Adams but this may not be the truth - my daughter is a great strapping thing, much taller than me now and there are plenty of boys who are a fair size at the age of 12. Could it be that Conkers' ex wife was sobbing down the phone more because of her child's behaviour rather than that of the savage beast she finds herself married to?

My daughter once told me that her teacher had beaten her with a ruler. I was somewhat taken aback by this and upon careful examination I found this to be a distortion of the truth. The teacher had been walking around the class with a ruler in her hand - my daughter, the little angel, happened to be catapaulting a missile at the time the teacher had gotten to her desk and the teacher tapped her with the ruler she had in her hand. Had I gone off at the deep end, this competent teacher would have lost her reputation over something extremely trivial.

Maybe it would be best for Conkers to sit down with mum and step dad and see what is really going on. Hopefully step dad is a fairly decent bloke, prone to a bit of ranting now and then who found himself in a one off confrontational situation that scared the wits out of both him and his step son - perhaps now is an ideal time for all of you to draw up what constitutes acceptable behaviour, on the parts of both the adults and the children. Then everyone knows what is expected of themselves.

If you really do get the impression that step dad is an out and out nutter, after having had a measured chat with him, then put those wheels in motion to have your children removed from his care.

But do be careful about knee jerk reactions...

Again, Devil's Advocate...

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 11:03 AM

QUOTE (Cyberfluff)
Chelseaman and Stebro, go argue in another goddamn thread. There's umpteen million frivolous threads you could decide to debate the Swedish soul in, and you two choose to hijack the one where someone is asking how to deal with someone abusing his children?

For shame, both of you.

Go argue in one of the goddamn Hamas threads if you won't start your own. It's not like we don't have 15 of them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So instead of ignoring it you continue to hijack it? Btw maybe you should bring a kid to the world, your mom tendencies are starting to develop quite nicely.

Posted by: The Filth 11.May.2006, 11:22 AM

QUOTE (Conkers)
Advice time..

I have been sitting on this for what seems like ages, but it infact reared it's ugly head on Monday. (2 days ago).

I am a Brit, have lived in Sweden for 14 years and have tow children with a Swedish girl, we split up 7-8 years ago, and the kids spend a week with me and a week with her and her partner.

I have good contact with their mother, and their step-dad seems like a decent chap, but it would seem this is only on the surface.

Last weekend my son (12) and the step-dad got into a row, it's not important what it was about, but my son slapped him in the face, he says it wasn't on purpose, not that it matters whether it was an accident or not, it was wrong and he knows that.
Anyway, the step dad then grabbed my sons arm and was thrashing him around, shouting and screaming, he was beside himself with rage, my son who is normally so calm and reasoned was so scared that he peed himself. (it's not a problem he has EVER had before.

My ex-wife was the one who called me crying and it took an hour for me to calm her down... my son- he doesn't want to talk about it, and when I questioned him, he started crying too...

The Brit/Father in me wants to do what my dad would have done, go round there and smack six bales of sh1t out of the step-dad, make it clear that if he lays a finger on my son (or daughter) ever again that I will work him over.
The sensible (swedish-ised) part of me knows that this action will result in a police report and serious charges, as well as not really doing anything to help with the problem.
My daughter (9) is more open and tells me everything, rather than bottling things up, she says that the step-dad has never hit them, but he grabs there arms or shoulders and shakes them, and I interpret this as probably as close to a beating as most Swedish children ever get from parents.

My daughter says that when her mum and step-dad have rows, she goes to her room and puts a pillow on her head so she doesn't have to hear them... my son says he goes to his room and reads a book with his walkman on...

I have told them that if this happens again, they do not need to be in that environment, and they can call me, I will come collect them and they can stay with me until it blows over...

But my dilemma... what should I do?

Sensible advice please... simply telling me to go smack the beejeesus out of him is not welcomed.

Conk.


sounds complicated, but the person with the real issues is clearly step-dad guy. Why is he reacting like this? Does he feel he has no respect from ur kids and feels frustrated. Perhaps he feels the only way he can be respected is to be aggressive. Perhaps he feels alone and isolated. Maybe he's just an asshole.

I can imagine its pretty hard for a step-dad with 2 kids who arent his who probably dont listen to him and tell him "your not my dad". Kids of divorced parents can often blame new partners in their parents lives for keeping mummy and daddy apart. Remember i doubt your getting the full story from anyone.

However, your no counsellor and neither should you be. So i guess if it happens again u can report it and request custody. You could even request an injunction against him on behalf of your children?? Certainly your son peeing himself in fear is rather worrying, more b/c of the psychological effect of such a childish lack of control at such a crucial age in his emotional development.

I'd imagine that involving urself directly thru him, or via ur wife and children may only make matters worse. In the meantime i guess u can reassure your kids that they are loved, that step-dad doesnt seem fair in his behaviour, but that he may be finding it hard too.

Good luck anyway.

Posted by: Bishop Conkers 11.May.2006, 12:25 PM

All comments read and duly noted... especially the one about how the net is not the place to get personal, I left the names out and have stuck to the facts that I have gathered from my son and my ex-wife.

Trust me, we are all smart intelligent people, not your regular ricky lake white-trash. My wife is an Msc, my son a straight A student or normal build for an 11yr old going on 12 who loves sports, reading books and playing music, he gets upset when he witnesses injustice but he hates violence and wouldn't even fight the school bully when I once (wrongly) thought that my son standing up for himself and smacking the bully around while I watched would be a solution. My son chose to tough it out, for 4 years. He recently befriended the bully, drew him into thier inner circle of friends and now they are all friends, harmony has returned to the classroom. I say this for no other reason than to defend my sons honour.

He is an honourable kid, make no mistake. The slapping he gave the step-dad... well he has tried to slap me on the mouth when I was teasing him about liking Jessica Andersson... a playful slap... I apologised for teasing him so openly, we then had a long talk where I told him never to slap me again... but I wonder if the slap he gave step-dad was the same type of playful gesture, or whether he has pent up feelings... either way, we have since talked about not slapping anyone, and following the response he got from step-dad I think he has learned his lesson.

Step-dad has always been a decent chap, well educated and pleasant, I have often thought how lucky my kids are to have a step dad like him... I would like to think that he is full of remorse. I sent a read receipt with the mail I sent him, and he read it this morning, he has not replied, I take the lack of negative response as a sign of remorse.

The mother (my ex) has been away on business, but comes home today, I'll have a long talk with her, her 40th b-day tomorrow, so the kids want to be home with her tonight until saturday lunch when I'll collect them again. By saturday afternoon we will know which way this has swung... I am sure that by now step-dad will be more subdued, this will go one way or the other.. and thanks to the discussion here and elsewhere I am now fully aware of my options and rights, and will act accordingly.

Thanks for all your input...

Conk.

Posted by: VikingHumpingWitch 11.May.2006, 12:39 PM

Hope it all works out well for everybody.

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 01:32 PM

Conkers...

TIMMIH!!!!!!

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Thenothingman)
Btw maybe you should bring a kid to the world, your mom tendencies are starting to develop quite nicely.


Shut up. [img]http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/851.gif[/img]

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (Cyberfluff)
Shut up. [img]http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/851.gif[/img]

For a vote 2010 I will biggrin.gif

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 08:03 PM

QUOTE (Thenothingman)
For a vote 2010 I will biggrin.gif


Don't you have to be a citizen to vote?

How about I just volunteer for your campaign?

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 08:23 PM

QUOTE (Cyberfluff)
Don't you have to be a citizen to vote?

How about I just volunteer for your campaign?

Yeah that works too 8)

Posted by: Guest 11.May.2006, 08:25 PM

QUOTE (Thenothingman)
Yeah that works too 8)


Ok I'll maintain your website or something and you don't mention that any more.

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