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United States politics

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Bsmith
post 4.Feb.2019, 10:01 PM
Post #61
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 4.Feb.2019, 08:22 PM) *
Is there no such thing as kids repeating a grade anymore?


Very, very rare. Not good for the little slacker's self esteem, ya know.
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Bsmith
post 4.Feb.2019, 10:23 PM
Post #62
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 4.Feb.2019, 07:30 PM) *
In your experience would you say that over your 35 years more expectations/ requirements/ pressure has been put on parents, by the schools, to be involved with the kids educat ... (show full quote)



Some parents are involved and set high expectations for their children. If there are any problems, these parents are supportive of you as a teacher and want to work with you to make sure the student is achieving to their potential. These are the children who usually succeed in school.

However, more and more you encounter parents who are too busy to be involved. Some are single parents trying to eek out a living or are so immature as to put their kids in the middle of a post divorce hissy-fit war. Many are actually adversarial and blame you, the teacher, for any difficulties the student is having. Many request an Individual Educational Program with modified lessons. These modifications usually involve less homework, less rigorous testing and other preferential treatment. Now, any good teacher will bend over backwards to help a student, but these modifications are mandated by the employer and are part of a teacher's performance review. So, instead of relying on the teacher's good judgement to teach as he or she feels is best for the student, a committee meets and dictates the modifications that you must make for the child. These modifications are, in many cases, detrimental to the student as they allow the student to do less rigorous coursework and still "earn" high marks. These IEPs can follow a student through grade school, high school and even college.

Now imagine for a moment that your work place allows you, because you have "disability", or you are a "minority" or any number of reasons, to work less hours, produce less of whatever your company produces and still earn the same pay that others who are working at full potential (sometimes doing the job of two people). How do you imagine that would affect your desire to overcome any other difficulties in life? How do you think that makes the hard working employees feel?
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 4.Feb.2019, 10:37 PM
Post #63
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

An addition to my previous post...One teacher mentioned that the "benchmarks" that was applied to their performance was taken from the Japanese education system... a system that was/is 99.99% composed of native born Japanese children and showed high levels of educational standards across the board...
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Saywhatwhat
post 4.Feb.2019, 11:37 PM
Post #64
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 4.Feb.2019, 10:23 PM) *
Some parents are involved and set high expectations for their children. If there are any problems, these parents are supportive of you as a teacher and want to work with you ... (show full quote)


I asked you to describe how you think the school system has run astray... thank you. Since you are just a wood shop teacher, not demeaning, I don’t expect you to know... but what are examples of what is mandated for the individuals? In what way does that hold back others who aren’t assessed on a rigged curve? If there is a committee that enforces these IEP’s they must be able to tell when a kid is just a slacker...

There were a couple of kids who had developmental disabilities at my old high school who must have had something like this IEP. There were others kids with dev dis. But these kids were in normal and advanced classes, with aides, and they were all valedictorian’s during graduation. No one gave a shit because everyone knows they have a disadvantage. Not to say people with developmental disabilities can’t be successful.

As for dumbasses in school, everyone knows who they are and as entitled as they might be blown up to be, it will bite them in the end.

I completely agree that this can be an incredible detriment to the individual but I can’t believe you think society is trying to go at the pace of the dumbest, to drop to the lowest common denominator, or that this is the plot of democrats and all liberals... I’m sure there are plenty as there are idiot conservatives.


With the work thing, I tend to not think of other peoples salaries and just worry about my own shit. There are slackers everywhere and their demise is typically brought upon themselves. As for the disability hires, how do you feel about veterans or disabled former police officers trying to re enter the work force? Liberalism counts there for conservatives.

If there was some shit like you describe, I would be pissed at the union or employer, not the individual. I would bring my concerns to my employer, ask for a raise... if I deserved it, and quietly look for work elsewhere. I’ve heard of diversity hires but getting paid the same for less work... I’ve never seen that as a law. As I said before there are plenty of healthy able bodied slackers as well.



QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 4.Feb.2019, 10:37 PM) *
An addition to my previous post...One teacher mentioned that the "benchmarks" that was applied to their performance was taken from the Japanese education system... a ... (show full quote)


I say it has more to do with a consistent education model/ system than nationality. The Finnish also have a high ranking system, I believe, and they too have had a consistent approach to education for decades.

This still has nothing to do with nationality or native rate... America changes its system too often.

There are plenty of homogenous countries with shitty schools.

Japan also has a culture of public discipline and shame.
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Bsmith
post 5.Feb.2019, 12:14 AM
Post #65
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 4.Feb.2019, 11:37 PM) *
Since you are just a wood shop teacher, not demeaning, I don’t expect you to know...



I can tell you that I accomplished more educationally than many of the core teachers I worked with. Kids who couldn't understand math who, once they saw the practical application, learned. Kids who did not see how a good vocabulary and proper grammar could help until they filled out job applications in my class. Kids who never realized the impact of history until we studied the Industrial Revolution and how it impacted society and the environment. Kids who began to understand science and physics as they applied them to the designs of the CO2 cars that they built in my class. And so on.

Because I had no state mandates to follow, because I was not a slave to Common Core Curriculum, I actually got to teach.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 5.Feb.2019, 12:45 AM
Post #66
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

You are 100% right!!!

I was lousy in math until I wanted to know what the cubic inch displacement on a Chevy 283 block would be if I increased the bore and stroke, etc...

I learned pretty quick!!!

There are far too many people with degrees and poor job prospects because everybody has a degree...

Vocational education has suffered because these people with degrees look down upon those that work with their hands and are not afraid to get their hands dirty..

If you can plumb, cut wood with expertise,lay bricks and wire a house you have a guarantee of work anywhere and any time, and then you can go in business for yourself...

The future lies in the hands of the Executive Plumber, etc...
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Gjeebes
post 5.Feb.2019, 05:20 AM
Post #67
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

You say it isn't cultural, then you immediately give examples from totally different cultures! lol!

I've never quite encountered anyone who contradicts himself multiple times, in the same sentence! lol

You do this type of thing consistently in every post! lol Like you are just trying to convince yourself, what side you are really on! So scattered, you are.

It's totally cultural, to the core.

In Finland, teachers are pillars of society. Well-respected. Changes to curriculum take years after careful consideration. Finnish culture, Finnish values drive it.

In Sweden (a vastly different "culture" than Finland), teachers are not respected, hence poorly paid and have become mired down with paperwork administrators used to do and endless meetings meetings and more meetings. Changes to the Swedish curriculum are done quickly, without any research. Let's not forget, the major changes to Swedish schools occurred in the 90's, when those in charge noted that the best performing schools were too focused on "facts" and "knowledge". That's the Swedes. The Swedish culture drives the choices made.

American culture? Money (let's not discuss how it was made) celebrities and war, are the stars of your universe. Education? Not a priority. In the 90's, the last time I looked, the average reading level in the USA: grade 4. What is the reading comprehension level of a grade 4 student? Reader's Digest. I doubt this level has risen since 2000.

Suits USA fine, but wouldn't fly in Japan, or Finland. Yet, you think it has nothing to do with culture. Isn't that a bit arrogant of you? Can't a culture achieve something that another culture can't/hasn't? Are you the open-borders, everyone is the same type of champion? Are we really all the same...oh, please do enlighten us, oh mighty scatterbrain! lol!

It's interesting how you sayblahblahblah defend all things liberal, constantly trying to dust it off at all costs, yet you somehow have realised Sweden's ridiculousness, but fail to connect it to the leftist hell it is.
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Saywhatwhat
post 5.Feb.2019, 07:56 AM
Post #68
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 5.Feb.2019, 12:14 AM) *
I can tell you that I accomplished more educationally than many of the core teachers I worked with. Kids who couldn't understand math who, once they saw the practical app ... (show full quote)


Oh come on. Quit being a snowflake. I said “not demeaning” trying to prevent your interpretation that I was demeaning you. Since y’all are obviously so sensitive. Since you have been so willing before, why not continue the conversation and go back to what we were discussing.
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Saywhatwhat
post 5.Feb.2019, 08:46 AM
Post #69
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 5.Feb.2019, 05:20 AM) *
You say it isn't cultural, then you immediately give examples from totally different cultures! lol!I've never quite encountered anyone who contradicts himself ... (show full quote)



Still all upset that I called bullshit on your claim that liberals created snowflakes and helicopter parenting? It’s ok to be wrong you know.

Such a snowflake you are.

Sushi is part of the Japanese culture... maybe that is what has them high ranking.

Maybe you should check your reading comprehension since the rebuttal had everything to do with “natives” and the amount in a ... not culture.

Cultural homogeneity has nothing to do with success. Nationality has nothing to do with success.
As you also repeat what I put forth, that a consistent system is key. And yes, I believe cultures are not better than one another, rather different.

Does it frighten you when you aren’t able to label and pigeon hole people? You’ve never encountered non partisan independent thought? Go figure, you’ve just been stuck in academia.

You exemplify a great problem in modern politics. The avoidance of bi partisan thinking and/or discussion. “What you can have liberal AND conservative views, you can be liberal and speak against liberal ideology, well I never”

Like trump and his wall. He is so fixed on maintaining a partisan divide that he fails to realize the common ground of flippin border security. But the headline to his bill was a wall so...

I put out some more food for you. I need to go to work now. Don’t piss on the floor!
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Bsmith
post 5.Feb.2019, 01:17 PM
Post #70
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 5.Feb.2019, 07:56 AM) *
Oh come on. Quit being a snowflake. I said “not demeaning” trying to prevent your interpretation that I was demeaning you. Since y’all are obviously so sensitive. Since ... (show full quote)



I couldn't care less about what you think about me. I offered up those examples not to toot my own horn but to illustrate how more effective teaching can be when the teachers are allowed to actually practice their craft and teach...instead of following a script. Also, as GH points out, how valuable a vocational education is. Thanks for raising some great points, GH.
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Saywhatwhat
post 5.Feb.2019, 05:58 PM
Post #71
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 5.Feb.2019, 01:17 PM) *
I couldn't care less about what you think about me. I offered up those examples not to toot my own horn but to illustrate how more effective teaching can be when the teac ... (show full quote)


Don’t expect you to care, didn’t think you were rooting own horn. But since you admitted not having dealt with IEP’s that is why I prefaced my questions with the “since you are just a wood shop teacher”

So what are examples of what is mandated for the individuals? In what way does that hold back others who aren’t assessed on a rigged curve? If there is a committee that enforces these IEP’s they must be able to tell when a kid is just a slacker and when it is unnecessary? How can a changing curriculum keep a math teacher from teaching math, a history teacher from teaching history? Shouldn’t a good teacher be able to teach regardless of restrictions or mandated parameters? Or is it more test prep that is what holds people back?

I also agree vocational education is great and there is too little exposure/ funding/ respect in public school, most. Especially, as Gamla points out, since there are different types of learners... this is where an IEP could be useful...
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Gjeebes
post 5.Feb.2019, 06:16 PM
Post #72
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

"And yes, I believe cultures are not better than one another, rather different."

No one gives a flying fuck what you think. No one gives a fuck if you agree with them.

And as you have proven yourself over and over again, to be mentally disabled, as guided by your "extreme presumptive" approach, and a needy, incoherent, scatter-brained energy-vampire, who requires so much help connecting the dots, but whom still can't, you can just fuck off back to sniffing your mommy's dirty undies, and disappear into the ether from whence yee came.
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Saywhatwhat
post 5.Feb.2019, 06:40 PM
Post #73
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 5.Feb.2019, 06:16 PM) *
"And yes, I believe cultures are not better than one another, rather different."No one gives a flying fuck what you think. No one gives a fuck if you agree with them ... (show full quote)



Awwww...

Snowflake

U mad?
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Bsmith
post 5.Feb.2019, 11:38 PM
Post #74
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 5.Feb.2019, 05:58 PM) *
Don’t expect you to care, didn’t think you were rooting own horn. But since you admitted not having dealt with IEP’s that is why I prefaced my questions with the “sinc ... (show full quote)



Didn't say that I never dealt with IEPs.
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Saywhatwhat
post 6.Feb.2019, 05:51 AM
Post #75
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 5.Feb.2019, 11:38 PM) *
Didn't say that I never dealt with IEPs.


Oh ok, you said you didn’t deal with state mandated curriculum... so then how about this... for the sake of dialogue since you have been avoiding these questions...


So what are examples of what is mandated for the individuals? In what way does that hold back others who aren’t assessed on a rigged curve? If there is a committee that enforces these IEP’s they must be able to tell when a kid is just a slacker and when it is unnecessary? How can a changing curriculum keep a math teacher from teaching math, a history teacher from teaching history? Shouldn’t a good teacher be able to teach regardless of restrictions or mandated parameters? Or is it more test prep that is what holds people back?
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