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The Local _ International affairs _ Abortion, pro life/ pro choice

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 15.Sep.2019, 03:07 PM

I believe in pro choice.

I don’t see what the issue is.

And pro life activists bombing abortion clinics... gee whiz... a bit hypocritical, no?

Posted by: Bsmith 15.Sep.2019, 03:47 PM

Killing an innocent life is pro choice? For who? Certainly not the baby.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 15.Sep.2019, 04:12 PM

We need condom reform laws...

Any woman caught without the mandatory amount of condoms on her should/will be punished to the fullest extent of the law!!!

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 15.Sep.2019, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 15.Sep.2019, 04:47 PM) *
Killing an innocent life is pro choice? For who? Certainly not the baby.


It is the choice of the mother and father.

Innocent life... can you define the parameters of innocent life, age wise?

89-92% of abortions occur before 13 weeks... 66% occurring before 8 weeks.


Posted by: Bsmith 15.Sep.2019, 05:58 PM

Well, just think of the school shootings as late term abortions and you'll be just fine.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 15.Sep.2019, 07:14 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 15.Sep.2019, 06:58 PM) *
Well, just think of the school shootings as late term abortions and you'll be just fine.



Hmmm, you seem a bit salty for some reason. Why?

Let me pose this question since you are implying that life before birth is as valuable as life after birth. I’ll use a 10 week old in the question since 90% (about) of abortions occur before 13 weeks. Mind you, 10 weeks into pregnancy the life is still an embryo.

You are in a burning building and need to escape or else die. While making your way to the exit you hear screams for help behind a door. You open that door and see a 5 year old in the corner crying for help. In the other corner you see a crate of 100 10wk old embryos. You have three choices a, save the crate of embryos, b, save the 5 year old, c, do nothing and everyone dies.

What do you do?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 15.Sep.2019, 07:16 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 15.Sep.2019, 06:58 PM) *
Well, just think of the school shootings as late term abortions and you'll be just fine.



We would still need massive gun law reform in that case

Posted by: Bsmith 15.Sep.2019, 09:49 PM

Let me pose a question to you? When do you think life begins?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 15.Sep.2019, 10:17 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 15.Sep.2019, 10:49 PM) *
Let me pose a question to you? When do you think life begins?



I hope you will also answer my questions from post 6.

I’ll gladly answer your question but you need to be more specific... what do you mean with life beginning?

The sperm and egg are both living... there is life in them...

There is life in a 10 week old embryo.

I personally would save a 5 year old child rather than a crate of 10,000 embryos. I would even knock over multiple crates to save that one 5 year old because those lives are not morally, ethically, nor biologically equivalent.

Posted by: Gjeebes 16.Sep.2019, 02:32 AM

"Killing an innocent life is pro choice? For who? Certainly not the baby."

No, obviously, embryos cannot think, as their brains are not yet developed in time, as per the time limits imposed for abortion.

It is the choice of the woman. And so it should be. Personally, I have heard of hookers who continue to get pregnant and just have the next abortion.

It disgusts me. Abortion should not be considered a form of birth control.

Women who become pregnant by means of violent rape, or whose fetus' are deformed etc, or known to cause risk to the woman for whatever reason, then sure, they should be allowed.

Funny how BSmith is all uppity with "single Black mothers" and their being subsidised, yet at the same time, he wishes to force their pregnancies on them.

Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 11:33 AM

Uppity Black mothers, as you call them, can make choices. If they, or anyone else makes bad choices, they should accept the consequences. Babies, unborn or not, do not have the ability to make choices. They are completely innocent.


Posted by: Saywhatwhat 16.Sep.2019, 12:19 PM

Bsmith, can you answer the questions I asked in post 6?


Posted by: Saywhatwhat 16.Sep.2019, 12:29 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 16.Sep.2019, 12:33 PM) *
Uppity Black mothers, as you call them, can make choices. If they, or anyone else makes bad choices, they should accept the consequences.


It sounds like you are saying the sole responsibility lies with the woman.

Anti abortion laws will create the need for more social services which will create the need for more taxes.

As Gjeebes mentioned there should also be a case by case assessment in the likes of multiple abortions and late term abortions, although that is typically for medical reasons. All should have medical assessment obviously.

Outside of that, a woman’s choice to have an abortion should be allowed... and free from harassment and/ or potential violence from protests which occurs at abortion clinics.

Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 03:20 PM

I did not say that abortion is the sole responsibility of the mother. I was responding to Gjeebes statement. But you seem to be saying that the murder of the innocent babies should be allowed without any harassment. Strange position from someone who is so against anyone being killed by a gun. What is the difference between killing someone with a gun or a forceps or vacuum device. If you are open minded enough, you should watch the movie "Unplanned". I would be interested in your take on that film.

Also, anti abortion laws do not have to create more need for social services if the sex partners exercise some personal responsibility...something the snowflake generation is not too big on.

Oh, and if there was a fire and you had to choose one of your 2 kids...which one would you choose? Same question.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 16.Sep.2019, 03:50 PM

Nobody mentioned religion, I wonder why???

About the fire scenarios... Call a Fireman and save everybody, or do the unborn not fit the everybody description???

Posted by: Gjeebes 16.Sep.2019, 04:02 PM

"Uppity Black mothers, as you call them,"

Reading and comprehension slowing down for the retired shop teach?

See this is what I mean with you BSmith. Of late you seem to take the Trumpity twist on anything and everything. I didn't usually think you were so thick, but...or maybe you are going a bit dotty...

So to splain it to you, I was calling YOU uppity, "about" single Black mothers, since in a previous thread, you were waxing lyrical with complaints of them being helped through subsidies, yet here you complain about their freedom of choice about becoming single moms, as it were.

So to further clarify such that a 2 year old could understand, I did not call Black mothers "uppity".

Tuned in now or still can't find the station?

Posted by: Gjeebes 16.Sep.2019, 04:14 PM

Another old bigot retires.

Wow, BSmith, you are just on fire! I didn't know shop teachers in Amarcuh made so much money that they could retire in ivory towers. You arrogant prick.

"If they, or anyone else makes bad choices, they should accept the consequences."

Truly amazing how you just cannot connect the dots. Like SayWHatInTheFAce said, it is not always the single mother's choice to be single, or to become pregnant.

Dead beat dads? Ever heard of that? Or maybe dad left because he is so beat down in society by religious judgemental pricks such as yourself, looking down their nose at everyone who isn't as pious as thoueth. Or that they can't get work because of the colour of their skin.

Simply wow that you were allowed to teach in public schools. I can guess the average grade received by a person of colour in your environment.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 16.Sep.2019, 05:53 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 16.Sep.2019, 04:20 PM) *
I did not say that abortion is the sole responsibility of the mother. I was responding to Gjeebes statement. But you seem to be saying that the murder of the innocent babies should be allowed without any harassment. Strange position from someone who is so against anyone being killed by a gun. What is the difference between killing someone with a gun or a forceps or vacuum device. If you are open minded enough, you should watch the movie "Unplanned". I would be interested in your take on that film.

Also, anti abortion laws do not have to create more need for social services if the sex partners exercise some personal responsibility...something the snowflake generation is not too big on.

Oh, and if there was a fire and you had to choose one of your 2 kids...which one would you choose? Same question.


You didn’t answer the question and the question you pose is not the same.

My position is not strange considering my position on gun laws.... it’s simple... I do not value the life of an embryo or fetus the same that I do the life of those that are victims to mass shootings and school shootings.

They are not biologically, morally, or ethically the same.

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 16.Sep.2019, 04:50 PM) *
Nobody mentioned religion, I wonder why???

About the fire scenarios... Call a Fireman and save everybody, or do the unborn not fit the everybody description???


Calling fireman is not an option since you and the 5 year old will die of smoke inhalation. There are 3 choices to this hypothetical question. A b or c. A- save the 100-1000 embryos. B- save the 5 year old. C- everyone dies because a quick decision wasn’t made.

What do you do?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 16.Sep.2019, 06:05 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 16.Sep.2019, 04:20 PM) *
I did not say that abortion is the sole responsibility of the mother. I was responding to Gjeebes statement. But you seem to be saying that the murder of the innocent babies should be allowed without any harassment. Strange position from someone who is so against anyone being killed by a gun. What is the difference between killing someone with a gun or a forceps or vacuum device. If you are open minded enough, you should watch the movie "Unplanned". I would be interested in your take on that film.

Also, anti abortion laws do not have to create more need for social services if the sex partners exercise some personal responsibility...something the snowflake generation is not too big on.

Oh, and if there was a fire and you had to choose one of your 2 kids...which one would you choose? Same question.



And so wait... you condone the harassment of women entering and bombings of planned parenthood and abortion clinics?

Your snowflake generation comment... what are you talking about? Abortion has been declining... ??? You are getting a little batty. Do you have some data to make sense of your statement? Because I don’t even know what you are trying to imply or if you can back up your statement.

I’ll check out the movie if I have time. It won’t change my opinion because I don’t believe the life of aborted fetuses and embryos have value. And if the movie is a gross out kind of thing... I’m not into scare tactics like that... I did it but was still squeamish watching the birth of my own kids. Or the tlc show pimple popper... can’t even be in the room if a commercial for that comes on.








Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 16.Sep.2019, 04:02 PM) *
"Uppity Black mothers, as you call them,"

Reading and comprehension slowing down for the retired shop teach?


The uppity black mother term did not come from me...it came from your post. Maybe you should check your comprehension.

Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 07:40 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 16.Sep.2019, 04:14 PM) *
Another old bigot retires.

You arrogant prick.



And now we've lowered ourselves to that crap. I am not surprised you were a professor. I met plenty of arrogant, pompous a-holes who thought that they were superior because, as a professor, they could intimidate their lowly students. Sick shit.

Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 16.Sep.2019, 04:14 PM) *
it is not always the single mother's choice to be single, or to become pregnant.

Dead beat dads?



I did not say that the mothers are the only responsible person for the pregnancies. That is why I used the term: sex partners...with and s...as in plural. Again, check your reading comprehension. I would have thought that a professor would actually be able to read.

Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 07:45 PM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 16.Sep.2019, 05:53 PM) *
I do not value the life of an embryo or fetus the same that I do the life of those that are victims to mass shootings and school shootings.



You can use any term you want to...embryo, fetus, or bun in the oven. It is still life and abortion puts an end to it. Kills it. Murders it.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 16.Sep.2019, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 16.Sep.2019, 08:45 PM) *
You can use any term you want to...embryo, fetus, or bun in the oven. It is still life and abortion puts an end to it. Kills it. Murders it.



You still haven’t answered MY question. If you value the life of a bun in the oven... remember 90% of abortions occur before 13 weeks... you would save the crate of embryos and let the 5 year old burn because you value the life just the same. That’s pretty twisted to think of the 5 year old begging for help as you rush the embryos to safety.

Embryo and fetus are specific terms relating to the development into a human.

And yes I know that an abortion is terminating a life.

Why would you want a child born into a family that didn’t want it?

Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 09:27 PM

At 22 days, a baby's heart begins to beat. During the first four weeks the baby's face will take form with large dark circles for eyes. The mouth, lower jaw, and throat are developing. Blood cells are taking shape, and circulation will begin. The tiny "heart" tube will beat 65 times a minute by the end of the fourth week.

During the next four weeks, the baby's Your baby's facial features continue to develop. Each ear begins as a little fold of skin at the side of the head. Tiny buds that eventually grow into arms and legs are forming. Fingers, toes and eyes are also forming.

The neural tube (brain, spinal cord and other neural tissue of the central nervous system) is well formed. The digestive tract and sensory organs begin to develop. Bone starts to replace cartilage.

The head is large in proportion to the rest of the baby's body.

During the next four weeks, Your baby's arms, hands, fingers, feet, and toes are fully formed. Your baby can open and close its fists and mouth. Fingernails and toenails are beginning to develop and the external ears are formed. The beginnings of teeth are forming. Your baby's reproductive organs also develop, but the baby's gender is difficult to distinguish on ultrasound.

By the end of the third month, your baby is fully formed. All the organs and extremities are present and will continue to mature in order to become functional. The circulatory and urinary systems are working and the liver produces bile.

And then...it is aborted. Killed. Sucked up by a vacuum and discarded.

Posted by: Bsmith 16.Sep.2019, 09:28 PM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 16.Sep.2019, 07:18 PM) *
Why would you want a child born into a family that didn’t want it?


There are plenty of childless families that would love to adopt a baby.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 16.Sep.2019, 10:08 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 16.Sep.2019, 10:27 PM) *
At 22 days, a baby's heart begins to beat. During the first four weeks the baby's face will take form with large dark circles for eyes. The mouth, lower jaw, and throat are developing. Blood cells are taking shape, and circulation will begin. The tiny "heart" tube will beat 65 times a minute by the end of the fourth week.

During the next four weeks, the baby's Your baby's facial features continue to develop. Each ear begins as a little fold of skin at the side of the head. Tiny buds that eventually grow into arms and legs are forming. Fingers, toes and eyes are also forming.

The neural tube (brain, spinal cord and other neural tissue of the central nervous system) is well formed. The digestive tract and sensory organs begin to develop. Bone starts to replace cartilage.

The head is large in proportion to the rest of the baby's body.

During the next four weeks, Your baby's arms, hands, fingers, feet, and toes are fully formed. Your baby can open and close its fists and mouth. Fingernails and toenails are beginning to develop and the external ears are formed. The beginnings of teeth are forming. Your baby's reproductive organs also develop, but the baby's gender is difficult to distinguish on ultrasound.

By the end of the third month, your baby is fully formed. All the organs and extremities are present and will continue to mature in order to become functional. The circulatory and urinary systems are working and the liver produces bile.

And then...it is aborted. Killed. Sucked up by a vacuum and discarded.



Yes, so? They have also just recently transitioned from an embryo to a fetus.

Are you going to continue avoiding my question from post 6?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 17.Sep.2019, 07:22 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 16.Sep.2019, 03:32 AM) *
Funny how BSmith is all uppity with "single Black mothers" and their being subsidised, yet at the same time, he wishes to force their pregnancies on them.



QUOTE (Bsmith @ 16.Sep.2019, 12:33 PM) *
Uppity Black mothers, as you call them, can make choices.



QUOTE (Bsmith @ 16.Sep.2019, 08:37 PM) *
The uppity black mother term did not come from me...it came from your post. Maybe you should check your comprehension.



To put an end to bsmith’s childish, “no I didn’t, you did” whining. Bsmith... it was you who decided to call single black mothers uppity.

Freudian slip?



Posted by: skogsbo 17.Sep.2019, 07:42 AM

Why is it the rich white men in the USA that decide the abortion laws in the USA. Many of them in office probably never even changed a nappy/diaper, they had staff for that.

I suspect a poor, badly education women's perspective might differ. They'll be the one who has to actually bring the unwanted child up.

Why doesn't the USA have a national referendum on it, or simply let people decide themselves. Then everyone can live to their own wishes and not those of others.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 17.Sep.2019, 09:04 AM

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 17.Sep.2019, 08:42 AM) *
Why is it the rich white men in the USA that decide the abortion laws in the USA. Many of them in office probably never even changed a nappy/diaper, they had staff for that.

I suspect a poor, badly education women's perspective might differ. They'll be the one who has to actually bring the unwanted child up.

Why doesn't the USA have a national referendum on it, or simply let people decide themselves. Then everyone can live to their own wishes and not those of others.


I believe it was a woman who put the anti abortion law in place in Alabama.

A woman’s education has nothing to do with abortion... what are you implying with that? Rich educated woman also have abortions and they also want to be in charge of their bodies.

Your last paragraph... yes, that is what we call pro choice... where if you want to have an abortion you can, and if you don’t want to, then you don’t.

Posted by: skogsbo 17.Sep.2019, 10:39 AM

Educated people are usually less influenced by medieval beliefs.

Rich people have less pressures that might motivate an abortion, such as childcare and employment.

Some of the USA stuff is just tradition. Many of the early founding fathers were from branches of Christianity in Europe that were considered too extreme in Europe in the 1700 and 1800s. That's why there are masses of small niche churches, generally practising at the extreme end of the scale.

Posted by: skogsbo 17.Sep.2019, 10:42 AM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 17.Sep.2019, 09:04 AM) *
I believe it was a woman who put the anti abortion law in place in Alabama.

A woman’s education has nothing to do with abortion... what are you implying with that? Rich educated woman also have abortions and they also want to be in charge of their bodies.

Your last paragraph... yes, that is what we call pro choice... where if you want to have an abortion you can, and if you don’t want to, then you don’t.

What influence does a badly educated women have over abortion legislation?

Rich people and churches lobby their senators etc... average Joe has no say.

Lobby power and money rule, the same with guns and the nsa.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 17.Sep.2019, 02:22 PM

"Why doesn't the USA have a national referendum on it, or simply let people decide themselves. Then everyone can live to their own wishes and not those of others."

Spot on...

Posted by: Gjeebes 17.Sep.2019, 04:32 PM

"To put an end to bsmith’s childish, “no I didn’t, you did” whining. Bsmith... it was you who decided to call single black mothers uppity.

Freudian slip?"

No, he's just gone full retard after 4 years of Trumpty-Dumbty.

Trump, and Readers Digest, dumbing down the Amurcuhns one grade-4 level story at a time.

I wonder if BSmith's wife or daughter (if he has one) would (heaven forbid it) become pregnant after being (heaven forbid it) raped, would he disown her, for not bringing the fetus through full term?


Posted by: Saywhatwhat 19.Sep.2019, 10:46 AM

That movie unplanned....

What a blatant piece of religious pro life propaganda garbage.

Planned parenthood as a shitty corporate lobbying entity... yea I get that... doesn’t change my stance of pro choice. I can be against planned parenthood as a corporate entity and still support pro choice.

Should we not perform any surgeries because there is risk associated with it?


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