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electricity plugs

Hallander
post 12.Jan.2016, 10:11 AM
Post #31
Joined: 4.Mar.2009

You are absolutely right, though they are obselescent, and Europlugs are now the norm. What you picture has the disadvantage that they dont fit all earthed sockets very well, since the springy earth connectors in the socket catch on the completely round bit on the plug that has to go into the socket. Some sockets I think also have bars going down that actually prevent the use of these round plugs. Though there is no reason that they should not go into all sockets, earthed or unearthed. All my cottage main fuses (old style) are 15 amp, whether for lighting or power circuits.

Separately, what I find a bit funny is that the UK plug aways locates live and neutral whereas all of this type of socket, earthed or unearthed can go in either way. It does mean never to trust the switch on the appliance to make it safe to tinker with, always take the plug out. Cos you may be switching the neutral connector, not the live one, leaving live parts in the appliance.
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Hawk
post 12.Jan.2016, 10:40 AM
Post #32
Joined: 12.Jan.2016

The 'polarisation question' had me interested as I am switching the plugs over from the UK variety. I guess most of the appliances from the 80's onwards switch at both live and neutral?

The outlets in my apartment are mostly the originals (see pic) - from 1955. In a strange way the old Swedish plug seems to fit / rest more safely than the new 'europlug'. That said the pins are shielded on the europlug which is important with such little recess on the socket mouth.
Attached Image

Having moved here from a new home in middlesex it was a bit of a shock to see old electrical outlets and plugs. I guess there are plenty of old installations still around in England!

The Swedish sockets and plugs are much less invasive and nicer looking!

Are they safer? That I am not so sure on!
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Hallander
post 12.Jan.2016, 10:59 AM
Post #33
Joined: 4.Mar.2009

No, I dont think double pole switching is the norm, but for most situations it doesnt need to be. When a Finnish friend years ago said that our 3 pin fused sockets were bulky ugly things I was rather indignant. But honestly, only now that they are all moulded and the size reduced do they start to compare with continental ones in neatness. Our sockets fused on the live connector have a certain safety advantage? But they were over engineered in a number of ways. Pins far bigger than that needed to carry even 13 amps. But it was designed to fit in with our 30amp ring main system. The best bit nowadays is part shielded pins becoming the norm with all plugs. Agreed that some euro plugs dont seem very secure in these older sockets. But Euro sockets are the other norm. More secure.

I think for your situation, luckily 2 pins are now the most common type since even power tools are "double insulated" and don't need an earth. Agreed that if you have all "old" sockets its all very neat and compact, so you have a nice neat looking set up. I assume earthed sockets in kitchen and bathroom ? Seems you can still buy the diy loose 2 pin plugs like your to fit yourself (looks to have the bigger round bit) http://www.clasohlson.com/se see Stickpropp,-ojordad/Pr220752000

No, I dont think that any pre 13 amp installations remain in the UK ? They would have been condemned, rewired. Its over 60 years that they were introduced after all
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Hawk
post 12.Jan.2016, 02:24 PM
Post #34
Joined: 12.Jan.2016

I think moving here has inspired me to be a little more curious about things I didn't think much about. A phenomenon I am sure experienced by most of us here!

I had once asked an electrician if I could have a instant hot water shower installed in my summer cabin here. This was met by a wall of confusion and I think we boiled the answer down to no. I still really don't understand quite why but I guess it is something to do with the AMPs coming into the cabin.

I remember going to my grandmothers in the UK back in the 1980's and she had a terrifically exciting BS 546 socket in each room. Obviously, phased out as people rewired homes to the new standard.

Interestingly, I did once own a new apartment in London which had BS 546 2amp sockets for lamps so that they could be switched at the wall which I thought was a little neat!

I guess every system has it's odd variations.

Viva la differences!
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Hisingen
post 12.Jan.2016, 09:50 PM
Post #35
Joined: 5.Jul.2012

I think I am right in saying that basically, in domestic use, we have four plugs in use. A special three-phase cooker plug, the earthed two pin and the non-earthed two pin, both having the rounded form, although the non-earthed can only be used in a non-earthed socket, and the newer non-earthed flat two pin. Of late, too, there are sockets available for the flat two-pin, which makes for a very discrete multiple outlet.
For other purposes there are of course the industrial type sockets and plugs, red or blue, for three phase and single phase.
With the advent of the German Bauhaus and Hornbach companies, we also now have switched plugs, which is a relatively new innovation on the Swedish market, with some of the switches being two-pole, making for added safety for the appliance, and bringing us closer to the UK switched outlet.
For you experts out there, there is a visible sign that a switch is double pole. You know what it is of course??
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Hallander
post 13.Jan.2016, 10:57 AM
Post #36
Joined: 4.Mar.2009

QUOTE
You know what it is of course??
No, why don't you tell us ! Visible on the switch as installed ?

I checked all the electrics in our cottage, and found that the idiot DIY (Swedish) previous owner had wired the kitchen water heater switch (single pole) to switch only the neutral line. Stangely, amongst the spares he left, was a double pole switch. So that got changed.

He also wired up earthed sockets in the kitchen without any earth, so that fridge, toaster, kettle were running unearthed. Discovered after I kept noticing a slight tingle touching the fridge.
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Hisingen
post 13.Jan.2016, 02:45 PM
Post #37
Joined: 5.Jul.2012

Indeed yes. Rotary switches have a I and O, rocker switches mostly have just a O. A quick look in the Clas Ohlson or Kjell & Co catalogues will confirm.

As to your experience with the previous owners DIY kamikaze wiring - ouch.

It is little wonder that stores selling electrical fittings do their best to tell you to get an authorised electrician to do the job. Some of those doing it themselves haven't a clue, as I also found with the houses I have had and did with my current home.

In my previous house, the owner had added insulation internally, thus hiding all the junction boxes that we can normally access, and I never did find about 50% of them, nor the 'in-built' door chime transformer.
The current house had mysterious wires going hither and thither, and which were subsequently found to be feeding wall outlets by making devious unprotected journeys through walls and cupboards and fed from the most unlikely sources. Happily I can say that today, all is as safe as it can ever be.
My first house bought in Sweden, in Gbg had been moved intact - on a lorry from what was to be the oil harbour - to a new district created to accommodate these houses. That was back in '27, and the wiring was from that period. Sure it ran in conduit. Paper lined metal conduit. Touch the wires if you dare, since the slightest disturbance caused the insulation to disintegrate leaving bare wires. That place required a total re-wiring in order to remove the ticking fuse.
Thank heaven for the current VP conduit and the modern fittings that reduce risk to a very low level, and make installation that much easier.
I, for one, am more than pleased at the advent of switched plugs here, even if we can never be sure which wire is switched. At least it does give us just a little more control. Control that the UK switched outlets provides excellently.

I just realised that I have omitted to mention the low-voltage plugs - similar to the two-pin 10 amp plug but with pins of different sizes to thus avoid making a mistake. That was because in all my time here I have never physically encountered them, but they seemingly still do exist and are available, for use in leisure cottages, caravans and boats on 12 or 24V. I found reference to these in an old Clas Ohlson catalogue from 1989 ! ! But I had also seen them in a recent catalogue somewhere.

You mention the 30amp ring main. Yes, I remember that when I bought a place back when in the UK . with the main fuse rather like a 6" nail - - - . But in my home village we had no electricity unil the early '50s even though there was electricity on the RAF/USAF airfield adjacent. Evacuated from London, where we had all mod cons, it was like a step into the past. Paraffin lamps, oil stoves for cooking when we did not use the kitchen range to save the ration of coal, and the loo on the other side of the path that fed the row of cottages, and a tap in a box at the end of the path supplying us all with water. During winter when it froze, everyone waited as long as they could to see who was brave enough to try and thaw it out. Ah - those were the days - - - or not. These thoughts come to mind today when the thermometer is indicating -7
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Hawk
post 13.Jan.2016, 08:27 PM
Post #38
Joined: 12.Jan.2016

Well I have been confused all day by a light socket on my livingroom ceiling. It has 2 live feeds and a neutral so I think it is a way of having a dimming function by only having half of the fitting lit - like a 2 bulb fitting. The wall switch has 2 switches also.
Am I on the right track anyone with Swedish knowledge out there?
I am only going to connect to one live feed as the fitting is one bulb.
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Hallander
post 14.Jan.2016, 10:17 AM
Post #39
Joined: 4.Mar.2009

Yes, it sounds as if its for 2 bulb fittings.

I recall an earlier thread where I got it wrong, about wall mounted double switches. I was wrong about a technical detail, but the point accepted was that they were often for ( more in the past) chandalier type fittings where you might want only half the lights on. (Though I still dont get why the commoner double switches have one switch up for on, the other down for on. But then I dont get how Swedes are more relaxed about whether for light switches its down for on or up for on anyway.)

ps Hisingen missed out the small plugs and sockets used on some light fittings, so that you can dismount them from the wall and ceiling. Not very common now but still used and available.
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Hisingen
post 14.Jan.2016, 11:41 AM
Post #40
Joined: 5.Jul.2012

Sorry H. No - I didn't really miss them out, but since the thread started about the normal power plug and socket I simply continued along those lines. Yes, as the previous poster commented you can get some with with three pins and an arrow pointing to 'the right connections', and there are also later versions having an earth pin, too. Others can have a flat on one side to prevent incorrect insertion into the socket. There seems no end to their imagination on that score. I did find, however, that having a socket and hook in a celing outlet was far better than the one time ceiling rose that was prevalent in the UK, where you had your lamp hanging on the cables from the rose, which you had to open to install them anyway. Not a very safe situation when working on a ladder in the middle of a room. I don't know if there has been any change on that system in latter years. My experience on that score was some 40 years ago now.

I do do agree with you regarding the up/down for on. In all the houses I have had, I have systematically gone round and set all my switches to be down for on. When I had an electrican in to carry out a special installation, I found that on leaving, he had reversed my switches at the point of the installation. Grrr. But it was in next to no time that I had them back as I wished to have them. Funny thing is that my Swedish wife finds no problem with the UK style, and even goes as far as to say it seems much more logical. It does make you wonder at times, doesn't it.
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Hisingen
post 19.Feb.2016, 02:54 PM
Post #41
Joined: 5.Jul.2012

Magic mushrooms, anyone ??
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intrepidfox
post 8.Dec.2018, 03:12 PM
Post #42
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 18.Jul.2012

QUOTE (AshMae @ 8.Dec.2018, 02:27 PM) *
Seems to be some confusion about the Swedish power system. Sweden uses the European standards, has power sockets type C and type F (grounded) and uses 230v @ 50hz. As for gett ... (show full quote)



A good link. Thanks
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MisterDuck
post 10.Dec.2018, 09:06 AM
Post #43
Joined: 3.Jun.2015

Great thread! Post #8 is truly hilarious. Why would some dispense advice on something they so clearly know nothing about?
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skogsbo
post 10.Dec.2018, 11:51 AM
Post #44
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (MisterDuck @ 10.Dec.2018, 08:06 AM) *
Great thread! Post #8 is truly hilarious. Why would some dispense advice on something they so clearly know nothing about?

Which bit do you disagree with in it?
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Uncle Fred
post 10.Dec.2018, 05:23 PM
Post #45
Joined: 16.Apr.2008

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 10.Dec.2018, 11:51 AM) *
Which bit do you disagree with in it?

I am afraid I have to agree with MisterDuck. The post is totally wrong and misleading.
To start with the standard UK voltage is 240v AC @ 50 hertz. The matter of earthing has nothing to do with a man standing on a chair and touching a computer.
The rule for earthing is very simple and has nothing to do with power rating. An appliance must be earthed if it is not insulated eg totally enclosed with no metal exposure.

So the like of white goods, irons, PCs and metal lamp fittings etc must be earthed. Hair dryers, Printers and TVs don't need to be earthed. UK standard plug has 3 pins but the earth pin is only connected when necessary. It is also an important safety feature, it opens the gates so the other 2 pins can enter.
The matter using a 4 way UK adapter in Sweden is also wrong, if it has an earthed Swedish plug on it and plugged into an earthed socket. Earth and non earthed rooms is also nonsense, if you have an appliance ih the living room which must have an earth, then there is no reason why you cant use an extension from another room.
Does a vacuum cleaner come to mind at this point, BTW most moden vacuums are not earthed.

The Swedish electrical system is outdated and the majority of properties would be condemned in the UK. Most properties do not have earth trips.

Sockets over sinks in kitchen and bathroom NO. Unsecured plastic covers over connection points NO. socket holes without gate, Sinks and baths NOT earthed. Wall light switches in a bathroom NO. I can go on and on.

This whole thread has various errors in it. In one post there is talk of polarity, this is not an issue in most cases because the current is AC which mean you can put a plug in either way.

Going back to the OP, it is normal for a blue flash to occur when a contact is made or broken. In this case I would say it's not the adaptor but the socket.

If anyone has ever fitted any Swedish sockets or switches I am sure they would also agree that they would be condemned in the UK.
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