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Posted on: 31.May.2009, 11:49 PM

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I agree any Church is imperfect, yet it is the responcibility of beleivers to study the word of God, and to ensure that Church practices are in line with God's intent. If an indivual does wronngly enough then they can be excommunicated. I see no reason why a Church can't suffer a simular fate.

You stumbled upon a very good point here. The Church should be excommunicating
more people from the fold and perhaps- it is not doing so. This aspect, I agree with totally.

The child abuse issues are difficult to deal with due to the mix of real and testimonial
evidence. Sometimes, there is no real evidence like sperm on clothing. Other times,
the testimonial evidence is contradictory or so old that recollections cannot be
consistent for presentation to a jury of peers.

The remedies are :
o the availability and funding of public counseling for child abuse victims
o a legal defense fund easily accessible to victims so that trial lawyers can pursue claims
and be compensated for the extraordinary effort to bring a case to trial
o the availability and funding of the criminal justice system
and punishment/ rehabilitation for abusers themselves
o constitutional amendments to define the rights of children with rights, recourse and remedies
o public education programs instructing citizens on how to avoid child abuse and report
instances on a timely basis
o clear laws with sentencing guidelines and a clear definition of child abuse so that a judge
can instruct a jury utilizing unambiguous terminology so that a judge knows what to say to a jury
just prior to deliberations

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #427261 · Replies: 18 · Views: 5,019

Posted on: 31.May.2009, 03:04 PM

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Creditors may have a priority in bankruptcy. That's why a lawyer
will be needed. You should research whether or not a bankruptcy
publication in the local paper is required because such a notice
would tell you where to file a claim. Meanwhile, you should
document your claim with as much proof as possible and
get some evidence from the employer as to the work performed.

If you and your co-workers continue to work there, the employer
must be deriving some value from the work done. Some aspect of
the business must be turning a profit or the employer may be utilizing
your work to wind down the company operations. I think that you
need to talk to a labor lawyer and pronto.;getall=true

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: Finance · Post Preview: #427132 · Replies: 7 · Views: 3,588

Posted on: 31.May.2009, 02:58 PM

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Try the Global Bullion Trading Group:
  Forum: Finance · Post Preview: #427131 · Replies: 21 · Views: 18,912

Posted on: 30.May.2009, 01:52 PM

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I would consider starting here. This is a teaching academy for Chinese medicinal modalities.

Nei Jing Akademien AB
Östra Järnvägsgatan 1
Enköping, 745 37
Phone: 0171-34300
Fax: 0171-34365

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: Life in Sweden · Post Preview: #426966 · Replies: 5 · Views: 6,275

Posted on: 30.May.2009, 01:45 PM

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Ask about the minimum and maximum in the salary range
for your current position. This range will tell you how much
growth potential there is for the future. I would also discuss
a special stipend or bonus since the move involves a considerable
change from the current circumstances. Make certain that
you will fit into the new corporate culture or setting with a
minimum of adjustment problems.

The next question involves where the new job will fit into within your
overall career plans. Find out what the next job could be
as your career matures and you grow out of your current
job and salary. Where will you go vertically in the organization?
If the corporate structure is organic in nature, how will you be
compensated for more involved work projects and commitments?
(The organic structure is flatter with more decentralization of authority
and sometimes little or no particular structure . )

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: Newcomers · Post Preview: #426965 · Replies: 7 · Views: 9,194

Posted on: 30.May.2009, 01:33 PM

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The corporate bureaucratic model is undergoing change due to the
excesses on Wall Street. The small business sector does not have
the shear size to experiment on large scale leveraging. For this reason,
they will be safe from extinction.

A few large size corporations are doing well. This achievement is
reflected in the stock price for companies like Google,,
Anheuser and others.

The article you cited is correct in criticizing the excesses like
corporate greed, excessive leveraging, the failure to share more of
the profits with workers and a whole host of problems too numerous
to list in a finite thread.

Ultimately, we must find ways to withdraw from the high level
of troop strength in Iraq and ultimately Afghanistan, Pakistan etc.
This normalization of the Pentagon budget will help the economy
enormously. President Clinton left office spending about 3.5% of the GDP
on the military. I believe that this is the model of Pentagon spending
consistent with rational spending by the federal government.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426960 · Replies: 1 · Views: 1,430

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 09:02 PM

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The Commission report sharply criticized the Department of Education in Ireland for
failing to carry out proper inspections. " The deferential and submissive attitude
of the Department of Education towards the Congregations compromised its ability to
carry out its statutory duty of inspection. "

So, the public inspection process failed. Since these are State institutions, the primary
charter is a public one . The Church's role is tangential because the Church does not
have the control over the mission of the institution and how the mission is carried out.
The State hires the staff and not the Catholic Church.

The findings of the Commission cannot be made part of criminal prosecutions
because the Christian Brothers sued the Commission successfully in 2004 to keep
the membership names out of the report whether they are dead or alive.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426849 · Replies: 2 · Views: 3,041

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 08:33 PM

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The inquiry commission was set up in 1999 to investigate
industrial schools, reformatories, orphanages, ordinary
day schools and other sundry units. The child abuse was in
State-owned institutions largely administered by religious orders.

The Commission heard evidence from 1914 to the present but the major
part of the work addressed the 1930s to the present. Over 1700 men and women
gave testimony of the abuse suffered in the institutions with over half reporting
sexual abuse.

The report recommends an overhaul of the public inspection system for childcare
services including unannounced audits and objective national standards.

Child welfare organizations are calling for a constitutional amendment to protect
children from abuse. There is a Residential Institutions Redress Board
which has received some 15,000 applications for financial compensation.
The total cost of the awards may exceed a $ billion Euros of which 10% of
the contributions will be from religious organizations. The remainder will be
public money because the institutions are public in nature and the public
investigatory function failed in its duty to inspect properly.

There appear to be mechanisms in place to compensate victims.
What is needed is a more rigorous public inspection system to ensure
compliance in the involved institutions. In addition, child welfare agencies
have called to enshrine child welfare protections into a formal
constitutional amendment.

What more can be done? By the way, this information is being published
in websites and the Irish Echo today and in recent days.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426835 · Replies: 2 · Views: 3,041

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 02:34 PM

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I'd add to this list of deadly sins.

o invasion of personal privacy

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: Miscellaneous · Post Preview: #426716 · Replies: 10 · Views: 3,133

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 02:27 PM

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Let me deal with a couple of issues forthrightly. First, Didi's observation in the
above seems to be the most accurate and common sense statement.
Second, Jimtjam, my comments on the public dimension of the problem are
based on the Associated Press article which I will produce for you once more.

Third, let's get back onto the topic in Ireland. We need an investigative reporting
by a well-respected or independent party ( perhaps an agnostic to be completely objective).
The local district attorneys or parties who prosecute crime in these Irish districts must be
interviewed to find out why the law is not working for the people. Perhaps, the reporting
mechanisms are sound but the followup is not. If there is a problem with followup, the
local prosecutors will need the mandate AND THE BUDGET to make progress on
reducing or eliminating the child abuse. In the USA, there is an ongoing feud over
statutes put into place with no mandate covering the budget or resources to ensure

Rome has acknowledged the widespread nature of the problem and apologized.
In some cases, the Church has paid large sums of money and $3 billion to be exact
over the past several decades. I agree with 007, we need to go beyond the payment
of claims into the area of prosecution. You cannot prosecute without the requisite
moral suasion from the top of the Catholic Church, the government of Ireland itself
and cooperation from local Catholics who must come forward to report incidents
and eventually evaluate the evidence in a court of law.

The local judges who hear the cases in Ireland must have mandates in the law itself
which leave no wiggle room in the sentencing structure. In addition, the typical
instruction to the juries must be simple enough so that peers can decide the issues
clearly and decisively.

My experience with the Catholic Church is a bit different in New York. First, the
Church has appointed non-New Yorkers to the position of Cardinal or Archbishop
for a very long time- perhaps going back to the near assassination of Pres.Reagan.
In rapid succession, we had John Cardinal O'Connor from Pennsylvania,
Edward Cardinal Egan from Connecticut and now Timothy Archbishop Dolan from
the mid-West. Rome has not promoted a local New Yorker to be the Archbishop
for quite a while.

Please comment on the types of issues I brought up in the above or provide better

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426711 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 06:29 AM

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QUOTE (Princess P @ 29.May.2009, 07:16 AM) *
Joemath, do you have any idea of how things were with the Catholic Church in Ireland? Their set up and power was on a different planet to other countries. In the UK, probably like the USA, they are there and they have schools and sometimes there are cases of abuse.

In Ireland, they were the authorities. They ran the local school, parents didn't have the option of not going to the Catholic school as it was the only school. They ran the care homes, if children or young women needed housing they would be in a church run home. There was no choice about this.

The abuse we are talking about is not the same as that experienced in the UK or the USA, we are talking about childrens schools and homes being run as brutal hard labour camps AS A MATTER OF POLICY. These children were brutalised and terrorised in these homes. Not secretly but openly and with a sense of pride that what was going on was just. Everyone knew what these places were like, the church hierachy, the authorities and the community. Everyone delibrately turned a blind eye to how they were run because the authority of the church was absolute.

My father went to the local school in his village. It was run by the Christian Brothers. My father is a devout catholic (as only old irish people can be) but he will still tell you that the staff at his school were absolute bastards who controlled the children through fear. He tells of regular beatings and being given a knife and sent outside to cut his own switch for his caning.

I suggest that if you genuinely want to understand the unique problem in Ireland that you begin with doing a google search on the Magdalene Laundries.

Then, a problem of that magnitude must be addressed by Papal representatives in coordination
with the local Cardinal and Archbishops. The use of authority must come from the very
top of the Church hierarchy because the truth simply cannot percolate upward.

I'm a bit removed from some of the issues you mention being in the USA and having
both Catholics and Protestants in the family. My view of religion is colored by a mixture
of the Catholic and Protestant backgrounds.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426534 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 06:21 AM

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QUOTE (7 @ 29.May.2009, 07:05 AM) *
joe, the legislation doesn't need to be tailored to the catholic church priests. legislation is already in place. if a priest abuses a child, he, like any other resident of that jurisdiction is subject to the laws and the legal procedure. that includes false accusations or the procedure of collecting evidence to get a conviction.

i'm not putting any onus on the catholic church. i'm requiring that they would not be allowed to "bury" information. if the administration of an educational institution were to sit on the information they receive about allegations of the abuse of one of their staff it would be not only a scandal, but legal proceedings could begin against that institution, the same should apply to the church.

there are procedures already in place for reporting allegations of child abuse. the church must merely follow them.

This is what I don't understand. Why doesn't the child or guardian report the incident to the
authorities? I understand that there is a high degree of shame and embarrassment associated
with child molestation; however, there should be counseling centers put into place to receive
these types of complaints. Victims should have legal defense funds so that trial lawyers have
resources (beyond pro bono) to pursue a case.

What evidence other than hearsay would the Church use to report an incidence?
I believe that any institution needs reporting guidelines which cover the common complaints
registered by citizens. In the absence of real evidence, all the Church can do is to transfer
the accused parties. In documented cases, the Church can expel members from the priesthood
for legal reasons and violation of the celibacy requirement expected of all religious members.
I know that Cardinal Bernadin worked to tighten screening procedures in the early 1990s.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426531 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 05:47 AM

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You haven't shown that the Catholic Church is the biggest abuser of children in any venue
so you cannot make such a sweeping outrageous statement !
What is the abuse in the public education systems ? i.e. in Ireland and elsewhere
How about abuse of Protestant children in Northern Ireland? Don't these children deserve consideration?

My prior posts have cited the abuse level in the public school system. Please address the
proposed solutions like:

o a victim's legal defense fund so that monies would be available to pursue Court actions
and financial recompense

o counseling centers for abused children

o a legal definition of the abuse together with legal procedural and the admission of evidence
How about protections for people falsely accused? (or you don't care about them )

o How does a victim report the incident? We need systems and procedures to do this.
You put the onus on the Catholic Church; however, the victim needs to report the incidents
in a timely manner and not decades later. We need public education programs and
reporting mechanisms. Please critique my ideas here.

I'd be interested to know how the Catholic Church reports child abuse on hearsay only.
What criteria do they use? What evidence does the Church use to report things to
These types of cases have a mix of real events and the Tawana Brawley situation
right here in the USA; wherein, there was a considerable stink followed by an admission
that the story was contrived from the inception.

Wake up and use common sense here. I know that you don't like the Catholic Church;
however, let's be fair and design procedures that can apply reasonably to everyone
whether in the USA, Ireland or elsewhere. Concentrate on the remedies I've proposed above
or propose better ones. Criminal prosecution depends upon designing practical laws
based upon real evidence that can be cited and believed by a jury .

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426523 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 03:45 AM

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From afar (NYC), I would look at the course catalog, visit the computer
facilities in the school and talk to students/faculty. Manufacturing Management
appears to include :

o Economic Order Quantity (EOQ), Modeling and Simulations
o Queuing and waiting line systems
o the Assignment Problem
o Linear Programming
o Transportation and Transshipment Problems and Algorithms
o Statistical Analysis of error functions like Poisson
o Quality Control
o Process Improvement and New Work Flow Options
o Audit Review of Engineering Systems and Processes
o Security, Environmental Monitoring (Heat, Power - Uninterruptible Power Source, Light )
o Energy Alternatives, Technology and Costing
o Artificial Intelligence and Expert Systems, Knowledge Engineering, "Advice Giving Systems"

Good Luck
Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: Studying · Post Preview: #426519 · Replies: 2 · Views: 1,505

Posted on: 29.May.2009, 02:34 AM

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QUOTE (freethinker @ 28.May.2009, 06:26 PM) *
Joemath, sighs...what are we going to do about you? You're mind works in non sensical ways. The sexual abuse commited agaist kids in the US public school system is no where close to that of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Consider as well that the Catholic Church sexually abuses kids in the US. Joemath, as I and others stated before, the Catholic CHurch has a global reach, therefore it's sexual abuse of kids is a global phenomenon.

Joemath, if NYC public schools were involved ( which they are not ) in the "level" of abuse you imply " I of course would want them shut down". I think this answers a question you indirectly asked me.

Statistically, I believe that you need to study the global sexual molestation issues in the
various bureaucratic institutions to be fair. With respect to the Irish Catholics, the Pope has
apologized to all Catholics and persons harmed. The Pontiff has done so publicly and I know
from Cardinal Bernardin's statement that better screening procedures were proposed as far
back as 1992.

I believe that a victim's legal defense fund is needed to secure trial attorneys for the poor.
Now, this would help enormously in providing compensation to victims together with
strong action for convicted sex abusers. We then come back to the difficult problem
of securing evidence to convict abusers. Prosecutors are hampered by time constraints,
statutes of limitation, murky recollections, deceased witnesses, budgetary constraints and a
whole host of problems too numerous to list here.

Let's get back to the criminal justice system again. What evidence does the Church use to
report incidences? This aspect must be outlined in legislation . The rights of the plaintiffs
and defendants (potentially falsely accused) must be considered. Irish Catholics
have a constituency which believes that abortion is murder. And so, physicians who
practice abortions and others who counsel could be the subject of prosecutions for murder
which carries stiffer penalties than child abuse or molestation. Did you ever see an abortion?
It's ugly for sure.

I've sat on a murder trial. Conviction is difficult for many reasons. In my own experience,
juries do look at the evidence very carefully. Sometimes, prosecutors present evidence
that does not withstand even the simplest scrutiny. This can destroy a winning case.

I agree with the moderator here. I wish that the posters would stick to potential solutions
to this problem instead of attacking each other. And so, how do you view the solutions
I've proposed ?

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426515 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 28.May.2009, 03:58 PM

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There is a case illustrating the presumptions in a recent publication below: (Great Britain experience)

Gaza cannot be considered a practicing Muslim locality- at least not according to the
precepts of Mohammad. Their actions are clearly in the nature of a rogue atheistic
locale gone awry. There is virtual total normlessness there. I don't know which religious
precepts could be cited in support of compliance with Muslim practices in the Koran or
elsewhere. Mohammad, praise be His Name, was also a merchant at one time and
He was civil to people in His travels.

My position on the sex abuse is very simple. Find me a practical set of precepts to guide
the DAs in followup of these cases because a whole host of constituencies outside
the Catholic Church have opposed even the reporting requirement- starting with the
United Federation of Teachers.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426368 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 28.May.2009, 03:07 PM

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I never implied or stated that priests were above the law - period. The reporting to authorities
is another issue. I believe that the Church has agreed to cooperate in a number of
jurisdictions. Let's look at the reporting requirement carefully.

Should the Church report heresay to the authorities ? Practically speaking, at what point does the
heresay justify a report to the authorities ? There has to be a threshold. In addition, any
institution including the public school system has to worry about lawsuits. Read my references
above which show that the public school authorities and indeed the union resist what you are
asking vehemently. I'm not talking about the Catholic Church now. I'm talking about the
TEACHER'S UNION ITSELF. Respond to the union resistance to the reporting requirement.

In New York City alone, at least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day. One study concluded that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse in the New York City schools were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside the schools. Most of these teachers are tenured and 40 percent of those transferred are repeat offenders. They call it “passing the garbage” in the schools. One reason why this exists is due to efforts by the United Federation of Teachers to protect teachers at the expense of children.[xxxi] Another is the fact that teachers accused of sexual misconduct cannot be fired under New York State law.

Scroll down to "TEACHERS SECTION"

All of the posters above, please be intellectually honest and comment on the position of
the United Federation of Teachers on this subject. I think that the case has been won by me right here.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426353 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 28.May.2009, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE (Jamtjim @ 28.May.2009, 02:24 PM) *
Gaza Strip.. athiest? Did he really just write that? A place "where religion is pretty obviously dead"! Is this the same gaza strip which is arguably about the most religously contested piece of land in the entire world?

Please let the men in white coats come in and take this dribbling looney away as my sides are starting to hurt!

They're coming to take him away ha ha he he... to the funny farm where life is free...

What's happening in the Gaza Strip is in no way the practice of Mohammad.
Note, I've isolated the Gaza Strip from the West Bank where saner heads coexist.

The goings on in the Gaza Strip have no congruency whatsoever with mainstream
Islam. Their actions are simply explainable by reference to what happens to
a state when atheistic norms prevail. A similar situation abounds in N. Korea.

You simply do not appreciate what happens when rogue states put religion aside
and embrace the exclusive domain of the State or the personification of a dictator
as a deity. Organized religion everywhere is subject to human frailties.
Stop pointing to the sporadic human frailties and focus instead on the good done
throughout the world. i.e.
o missionaries feeding the poor and hungry
o no cost hospices tending to the terminally ill
o interfaith hospitals that treat many patients free of charge
o priests and deputized laity that tend to the terminally ill just prior to the moment of death
o the Catholic education system which has a growing number of Jews, Protestants, Buddhists and others
in attendance and a Catholic education system that employs interfaith staff I would add

The abuse problem you refer to warrants expulsion from the priesthood for disobedience to
the requirement of celibacy. For this reason, I would allow priests to marry. Civil unions is
a possibility for the Protestant denominations. I don't see the Catholic Church embracing
civil unions in the near future.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426332 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 28.May.2009, 12:56 PM

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Try and ask about probono legal advice in Sweden.
The website is:
  Forum: Legal · Post Preview: #426270 · Replies: 29 · Views: 13,536

Posted on: 28.May.2009, 12:42 PM

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According to the above arguments, we should close the NYC Public Schools
where the abuse of children is even higher. See the reference I've posted
numerous times. Freethinker, please address closing the NYC Public Schools.
What's good for the proverbial goose is good for the gander as the saying goes.
Freethinker, please go to the reference I've posted for the third time and
comment on the greater child abuse in the public schools. Let's be fair to all.

The problem I have is constructing a law that can apply uniformly given the
nearly impossible task of prosecution with little evidence after many years
have passed. If this issue was easy to construct, there would have been
better laws put into place a long time ago.

DAs have much to do, budgets have been historically tight and adding more
regulatory burdens without the resources is a non-starter.

Freethinker, please address my call for stricter screening procedures and also
address the fact that an abused person can go into Court with a lawyer on
contingency fee for a meritorious case with provable evidence. There are remedies
available in the current system- at least in the USA.

I think that you will have a difficult problem pinning labels on the Catholic Church
alone because the problems in the NYC Public School System are greater and
according to the Catholic League the problems in the Protestant Churches are
more significant statistically. Please address these issues squarely otherwise
consider that you have lost the argument.

Let's get into doable remedies:
o better screening procedures for people placed in the public trust
o perhaps a commission of DAs to talk about what evidence needs to be present
to strengthen any laws in this area. It's the DAs that address the practicality
issue because they have to do the hard work of prosecution and they don't
want to prosecute losing cases for a whole host of reasons
o better education for children on reporting mechanisms when these occurrences happen
o more public resources available for the abused i.e. psychological counseling et al.

Closing the Catholic Church or the Christian Churches would be a non-starter.
First of all, the Catholic Church is a growing influence in South and Central Ameerica
also Africa. Frankly, I'd rather have the Catholic Church in growing numbers than
these normless atheistic rogue states like N. Korea, Gaza Strip and other places
where religion is pretty obviously dead. Your ideas on atheism in Sweden make for
a lively debate here in America or Great Britain; however, these ideas would not be
practical in the hell-hole areas of this earth.

I'm not defending the Catholic Church. I think that they're paying a price for the
poor quality of some people they placed into the public trust. Nonetheless,
these problems occur wherever there are people in a social organization of any size.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426266 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 28.May.2009, 02:19 AM

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QUOTE (Jamtjim @ 27.May.2009, 09:21 PM) *
Freethinker. I think we need to be careful when we talk about "banning" the catholic church as this could (and certainly would) be taken as curtailing religious freedoms.

I believe that in essense, people have a right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively effect other people (I would and have argued in other threads that the whole idea of religious faith negatively effects society as a whole but this is rather a side issue). As such the idea of banning the church should be better seen as a dismantling of the organisation of the church itself.

A subtle and pedantic difference I know, but it may just stop people trying to hijack the issue (hmm, I wonder who would do that) by claiming religious intolerance when what I seek is abuse intolerance. In this case it is not the catholics or thier beliefs which I aim to attack, but rather the organisation which allows for and covers up widespread (endemic according to the report from Ireland) sexual and physical abuse of children.

I find a problem in implementing a solution when the relevant issues span a wide area
of jurisdiction. Remember, that the people who will write the laws (some of them)
could be child abusers themselves. The Catholic Church will face budgetary problems in
paying many of these cases. The choice could be between closing a school and forcing
1000 students into the local public school or denying the payment of a few large claims.

In the competition between parties with adverse interests, the children will suffer even more.
Then, the DAs must act on provable sets of circumstances. Practically speaking, this means
denying cases for trial due to problems with the existing evidence or even getting any evidence
after years have passed.

Writing a law for child abuse gets into other problems. A good deal of legislators consider
abortion to be murder and so prosecutorial implications could come into the picture for
people who perform abortions. These physicians are already under the gun from the
anti-abortion groups which pepper the political landscape .

A rigorous trial procedure would place victims at the hands of aggressive defense
lawyers who would air all the personal dirty laundry before the public in order to
get their clients off the proverbial hook. The scene could get pretty stinky with paid
investigators digging through trash cans and wiretapping phones without authority.

I've considered many of the horrors and concluded that the issue must pass
through a very carefully considered approach with prevention being the most
practical option. We need better screening procedures to place people into the public trust .
The nationwide DA associations must decide what cluster of evidence is needed
to bring a case to trial so that future laws could anticipate the real world
predicaments people find themselves facing daily.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #426125 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 27.May.2009, 02:07 PM

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The Catholic Church has abuse issues to deal with forthrightly.
Pope Benedict has apologized for the past sins and the
Church has begun a process to handle the issue more
systematically. The payouts to aggrieved persons will continue.
A good article on implementing proposed changes in Boston
appears below:

As far back as 1992, the Church began a process of instituting changes in the
selection process for priests.

The policies require that:

# A full psychological profile of each seminarian be obtained. In addition to general psychological fitness for ordination and ministry, the profile should try to identify tendencies to pedophilia (sexual attraction to young children) or ephebophilia (sexual attraction to adolescents).

# The archdiocesan seminaries must offer age-appropriate courses and components that deal in depth with psychological development, including both moral and deviant sexual behavior, with an emphasis on the implications of making moral choices in accord with church teaching and priestly commitment.

# Every priest who works within the archdiocese must certify in writing that he has read and is familiar with the archdiocesan policies and procedures regarding sexual misconduct with minors.

Just last year nearly 3/4 billion dollars was paid out to Ca. claimants
and more will come. There is a problem with blanket policy with regard
to the criminal justice system because DAs are under constraints
in many areas of the country and local laws do vary. Internationally, the story
is even more complex because legal statutes vary from country to country.

Should the Catholic Church encourage reporting to authorities?
I believe that they have embraced this practice. Nonetheless,
DAs can do very little beyond receiving the complaints because they are
burdened by presumptions in the law and budgetary considerations.
A mandate without a budget has "no teeth". The USA is spending
a huge amount of money on police and Homeland Security due to
the terror issues and the need to monitor the borders in every direction.

Some posters have asked about the British Common Law presumptions.
Here is a pretty good website which covers many of the questions.

This article argues that many English criminal defendants in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries did not benefit from a presumption of innocence but, rather, struggled against a statutory presumption of guilt. In the starkest cases, defendants labored under a presumption of guilt when charged with violating one of numerous statutes passed by Parliament during the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries designed to combat various forms of misappropriation. Under these statutes, persons detected in possession of goods such as metal, rope, textile materials, or wood who failed to "account" adequately for their possession could be convicted by magistrates of misdemeanors in "summary proceedings," which dispensed with certain important procedural and evidentiary protections applicable in cases of larceny tried in the higher courts.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #425979 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 27.May.2009, 01:58 PM

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Member No.: 17,147

QUOTE (freethinker @ 27.May.2009, 08:21 AM) *
Would anyone here please forward this question I posed to Joemath? " Joemath what do you have to say about the abusive nature of the Catholic Church"? "I have explained my thoughts quite clearly to you 2 posts above this one as well as others, yet you are being evasive". Please do not hide behind gobble de guk or verbal jibberish. I'm looking for a forthright, concise, and intelligent responce applicable to the topic at hand. Please avoid the use of literary red herrings. I have given you the respect of sharing my honest views and thoughts on this matter, and would like the same in return.

I respectfully request my question be forwarded as the thread progresses because I do not know if my question will be buried, so to speak, as this thread expands from other peoples replies.
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #425974 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 27.May.2009, 06:26 AM

Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 23.Jun.2007
Member No.: 17,147

I'm not employed by the Catholic Church. I've attended both Catholic and Lutheran Schools
at one time or another. My family has both Catholics and Protestant members.
I've attended both Catholic and Protestant services at one time or another.

I believe that Pope Benedict has apologized for the abuse by priests and the Church
has paid $3 billion dollars and counting for out-of-court settlements which would
benefit both parties. The Church benefits by closing the issue and the plaintiffs benefit
by receiving a modicum of compensation without having to take the witness stand
under oath and discuss their sexual partners/practices over the past decades.

The DAs (District Attorneys) benefit by saving the expense of trial over many years and
the interminable recordkeeping and reporting that is required to justify their toil.
The DAs are flooded with murders, War on Terror, historic financial frauds,
missing persons, messy child welfare / divorces and a whole host of criminal
matters too numerous to list in a finite thread.

From a legal standpoint, further remedies in the USA are difficult just from the
standpoint of a definition of abuse. Abuse also extends to family members.
A growing number of people would categorize abortion as the ultimate in abuse of a
living being. So, the difficulties of even constructing a basic definition are considerable.

The global problem applies not only to the Catholic Church but also to Protestant Churches,
interfaith and even public institutions. Wherever there are people, there will be abuse of
children both familial and extra-familial in nature.

I believe that the Catholic Church and all institutions should deal forthrightly with the
issue by having better screening procedures and applying sanctions where applicable.
Civil and criminal laws vary considerably for each jurisdiction so that reporting to the
authorities has to be viewed by the customs and practices locally.

On the other hand, there are the Tawana Brawley types of cases where people lie
and then they are faced with changing their story after interminable wrangling by
the authorities. So, the issue is extremely difficult for the civil authorities to deal with
uniformly. I agree that abuse of children in any manner whatsoever should cease.
I believe that education of the children with regard to coping strategies is an
excellent idea together with better screening procedures . Civil trials will continue
in any event and criminal trials are at the discretion of local DAs. Remember, the DAs
are charged with proving individual cases beyond a reasonable doubt. That is the
standard of American law. The standard has worked well. At times, people like OJ
benefit from the standard- perhaps unjustly. Nonetheless, benefit or not, a defendant
can be forced into a civil trial where the standard of proof is different from a
criminal trial. At civil trials, defendants are at a disadvantage because the standard
is a preponderance of the evidence or 51% to 49% of the evidence favoring plaintiffs.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #425825 · Replies: 121 · Views: 21,012

Posted on: 27.May.2009, 04:20 AM

Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 23.Jun.2007
Member No.: 17,147

I agree. Sonia Sotomajor has years of experience on the bench, as well as
a fresh perspective on issues which plaque the poor in NYC and elsewhere.

Joseph S. Maresca
  Forum: International affairs · Post Preview: #425814 · Replies: 6 · Views: 1,691

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