(edit title) For FR: What can a pacifists do? Options

[FR]

except in this case i think they'd consider it deserting.

I've heard that one before. Not a particularly good reason to stay in a horrid situation, however. Is one "deserting" an abusive husband if she divorces him?

[007]

I've heard that one before. Not a particularly good reason to stay in a horrid situation, however. Is one "deserting" an abusive husband if she divorces him?

sorry, humor intended.

leaving iraq for those stationed as part of coalition military=deserting.

[Ellie]

Holy crap, is that real?

Torontonian posted the link, I just posted the image. I hope no one thinks we are such ignoramuses that we didn't know we couldn't get into Mecca. I was just surprised at the superhighway leading there and the special exit for the infidels. Wonder where it goes?

I also would like to see the special Black Stone that is worshipped in the Ka'ba in Mecca, but that will never happen since I am an infidel woman. I collect tektites and interesting rocks, minerals, fossils, and I've heard the Black Stone is actually a large meterorite. Oh, well.

[FR]

Who gets to go to the Wailing Wall?

[Torontonian]

Muslims, Christians, Jews, Infidels - anyone who wishes to. Free for all.

Some non Jews at the wailing wall:

Sharon Stone celebrated her 48th birthday in Israel at the weekend (10-12MAR06) and finished her trip to the Holy Land with a visit to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem (13MAR06).

August 3, 2003 . Christopher Reeve, praying at Jerusalem's Wailing
Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi
[img]http://www.mutantfrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/Koizumi%20Yarmulke.jpg[/img]



And if those folks are a bit "Jewish" for your taste, here is the Pope himself praying there:

[img]http://www.colombialink.com/01_INDEX/index_biographies/fotos/11_100px-Jp_ii_wailing_wall.jpg[/img]

In Mecca, non-Muslims found in the city or around the mosque face the risk of death penalty.

Now let's get back to topic: what can a pacifist do in a real world (the example above). You did not offer a practical solution.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

I also thought the wailing wall was for Jews only (and sections for men only) until about 3 days ago when I found out it wasn't. Has it recently changed or something?

I know it has nothing to do with the thread, I'm just interested.

[Torontonian]

1. The wailing wall is designated as a synagogue. ANYONE is can enter a leave a synagoge no matter who they are or what they are.
2. It was always like (never changed) As for woman / man - the wall is devided into 2 sections - one for woman and one for man. - this is the wall your see on the surface. The wall continues actually into the ground (more than 2/3rds). That section is not designated a synagogue and both man and woman are allowed.
3. Keep in mind that Judaism is one of the only Maternal religions (it goes by the mother not the father). It will be imposible to remove women. BTW - the Rabbi in my synagoge is a woman.
4. According to Judaism - your salvation is not by your religion. It is by what you do - and you do not need to be a a Jew. Therefore, it is not a missionairy religion. To "join in" you need to prove you really want to. The only difference B/W Jews and non Jews (in a theogologcal sense) is that Jews were "chosen" to bring salvation to everyone.

In short, forbidding non-Jews to see and touch the wall has no point.

[007]

torontonian,

can you tell me about the armenian quarter of jerusalem? is it true it's not open to everyone? (heard that, not sure)

[VikingHumpingWitch]

'hmm. Judaism does seem to be among the least offensive of all religions, I really cannot understand why so many people over so long a time have had so much against it.

[Torontonian]

torontonian,

can you tell me about the armenian quarter of jerusalem? is it true it's not open to everyone? (heard that, not sure)

Open to all. the Armenians (about 15,000 of them - all christians) live there allow all to walk the streets. The only site that has restrictios in Jerusalem is the Temple Mount - where you have the "golden dome" you see in pictures. At various times it is open only to Muslims.

[Torontonian]

'hmm. Judaism does seem to be among the least offensive of all religions, I really cannot understand why so many people over so long a time have had so much against it.

Because it is a Threat.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Because it is a Threat.

Who to?

[Torontonian]

Who to?

various institutions at various times:

Romans - contrairy to believing in Idols.
Christianity - contrairy to believing in the Trinitt and that Jesus (who btw was born, lived, died and buried as a Jew) is not God.
Islam - most of the stories in the Quran are biblical but with a twist: Abraham is tha Patriach but his son Ishmael is the important one and not Izaac. HOw d you explain that 1,200 years ago te story changed suddenly.

Also God "promised" the land to the Jews -"The promised Land" that is an issue.

Also, how do you explain that the only people who did not accept Jesus are jews !? this is a huge issue.

Finally, during the ages all kind of stereotyes came by - money, race, nose, wickedness...and you have yourself a threat.

[David Soori]

''So you would agree there is apartheid in Saudi Arabia?

Absolutely, Jews are not even allowed to enter the country let alone access any rights. Women are second class citizens. It is appalling, even more so when you think how the West cosies up to this brutal dictatorship.''
There is discrimination of all sorts in all societies.From America to Zambia.Only difference is the degree of brutality.
Sweden used to carry out eugenics until 1976.Among the Africans there is tribal discrimination.Among the Muslims there is discrimination's between various sects, so too with Christians, Hindus.If you are a black Jew, the Askance will discriminate against you. Christ was a black Jew not a blue eyed blond Scandinavian
Until we rise above such petty minded ness, and think of us as, First and foremost citizens of the world, and members of the human race. and every thing else is accidental.As Gandhi said we are all brothers and sisters.
All this boils down to economics. As long as we remain enslaved by money created out of NOTHING as an interest bearing DEBT, we can be divided and ruled for maximising profits. We must realise that interest is NOT necessary or inevitable and should be abolised hence forth. All religions, Jewish, Christians, Muslims , Hindus etc condem interest out right, so abolishing it should be easy.
moneylender

[FR]

I also thought the wailing wall was for Jews only (and sections for men only) until about 3 days ago when I found out it wasn't. Has it recently changed or something?

I know it has nothing to do with the thread, I'm just interested.

I believe you are right, VHW, and so do the Israelis I spoke to last night. One even has to be Orthodox to visit certain sections.

PS I was invited to tour the local mosque with no problem when services were not running. A the Wailing Wall, "services" never technically stop.

Would the Devil be welcome in a church? Just making the point that there are a lot of exclusive places in the world. Doesn't make it right, but nobody can point a finger at another... throwing the first stone and all that.