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The Swedish dream was always too good to be true.

And now the far right is back

cootje1976
post 15.May.2019, 04:15 AM
Post #1
Location: Uppsala county
Joined: 3.May.2012

Pretty revealing article about Sweden and it's role in the second World War.
And the consequences of turning a blind eye to their own role during the war. Not that we did not know about that, but a good to read article nonetheless.



https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...ht-wartime-past
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Saywhatwhat
post 15.May.2019, 07:17 AM
Post #2
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

Thanks for article. It was a good little read with more expansive sub links.

Just goes to show the importance of introspection, be it on the individual, communal, or national level.

I love that many use the excuse “but we didn’t have slavery” to justify their use of the N word. They believe that problem is isolated in America.

Swedes are quick to point the finger outward at all the wrong in the world that they swoop in to make better or are a shining example of “how it should be”.

If they ever pointed the finger at themselves they would be devastated. And since their national identity rests in a lie, they would crumble... as they are.

They are in an identity crisis because if, as mentioned in the article, they let go of their “good guy history” starting 1943... they are left with a prejudice, white supremacist, intolerant, anti Semitic identity... that eats fish and potatoes.

A sub link also pointed out that Sweden has the second worst attitude towards immigration in Europe, just 1% behind Italy, that 49% believe immigration is a negative thing.

Sweden’s tolerance of intolerant neo nazis is worse than trump. Why allow any ideology whose end goal is to remove democracy?


I’m curious who will defend Sweden after reading this... or who will say “ Sweden was never prosecuted for war crimes in ww2 so they did nothing wrong”... I wonder who will say that????

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skogsbo
post 15.May.2019, 07:22 AM
Post #3
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

Slavery still exists in just about every European country, be it living in a caravan picking fruit and veg, or on a zero hours contract in an Amazon warehouse. It might not the same on the surface but all the traits are there.
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skogsbo
post 15.May.2019, 07:29 AM
Post #4
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 15.May.2019, 06:17 AM) *
I’m curious who will defend Sweden after reading this... or who will say “ Sweden was never prosecuted for war crimes in ww2 so they did nothing wrong”... I wonder who will say that????

I think a line has been drawn under it, for all apart from those directly responsible. Exceedingly few of which are still alive. After most people would be happy to have a vw car etc. There might be a few old Nazis lurking in Argentina but the chances of getting them to the Hague are sadly next to zero.

That's war in a pre digital age, most people never know what was happening until after.
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Saywhatwhat
post 15.May.2019, 07:38 AM
Post #5
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 15.May.2019, 08:29 AM) *
That's war in a pre digital age, most people never know what was happening until after.


Well, yeah... and being accountable for your actions is very important. What is that saying, if you forget history you are doomed to repeat it?

It isn’t about the past, completely, but the current generations who hold on to the good guy innocent image created circa1943. Or how this article exposes Sweden’s good actions during ww2 were not initiatives of their own. And that they had to be financially incentivized to help.

Did you read the article... it’s not about nazis of the past... it’s about accountability and introspection.


And with VW cars... what’s your point? Germany was and is accountable for their actions. That’s why they are a respected nation still, even after such atrocities. Although, all of Europe, including Germany, is having neo nazi, nationalist extemist problems.
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Saywhatwhat
post 15.May.2019, 07:42 AM
Post #6
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 15.May.2019, 08:22 AM) *
Slavery still exists in just about every European country, be it living in a caravan picking fruit and veg, or on a zero hours contract in an Amazon warehouse. It might not th ... (show full quote)



Oh, for sure. My point was more in reference to the enslavement of Africans and people from the Caribbean.

Did you even read the article... that part is about how Sweden believes those are problems other countries have, not theirs. They are innocent.
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skogsbo
post 15.May.2019, 07:57 AM
Post #7
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

I know many Swedes the same age as me who are deeply ashamed of what their ancestors did, or stood by to allow others to do. One is half norwegian and his grand father was involved in the sabotage of the heavy water plants at rjukan. So you can't label a whole society.

I think of those who were conditioned into supporting Nazism in the 1940s... how many knew what was happening in the camps in Poland? That was then, now of course there is no excuse for sympathizing.

Then of course every country has it's holocaust deniers, those who latch onto Nazism because they see it matching their current anti migrant ideals. I expect the eu elections will see a heavy swing to the far right, often bizarrely in countries who suffered most when the Nazis invaded.

You could change Trumps wording about Mexicans to jews and it wouldn't be out of place at a 1930s Nazi rally.
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nativeswedishengineer
post 15.May.2019, 09:27 AM
Post #8
Joined: 7.Nov.2017

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 15.May.2019, 08:17 AM) *
Thanks for article. It was a good little read with more expansive sub links.Just goes to show the importance of introspection, be it on the individual, communal, or national l ... (show full quote)



QUOTE (skogsbo @ 15.May.2019, 08:57 AM) *
I know many Swedes the same age as me who are deeply ashamed of what their ancestors did, or stood by to allow others to do. One is half norwegian and his grand father was inv ... (show full quote)


I don't understand why people are so surprised that the electorate is turning right. Maybe they are fed up with the neo-liberal project that has resulted in, cheaper junk available from China and clothes of very questionable quality from Bangladesh available for cheap but the jobs that used to provide an income have all been outsourced or insourced to cheaper indentured servants migrating here, while not a single party rasies any questions whatsoever to the corporations always screaming and shouting about their "critical shortage of workers" regarding why the barriers to entry for a junior job just keep getting higher and higher or why all this "job growth" consists of 0 hour contracts.
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Saywhatwhat
post 15.May.2019, 10:15 AM
Post #9
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (nativeswedishengineer @ 15.May.2019, 10:27 AM) *
I don't understand why people are so surprised that the electorate is turning right. Maybe they are fed up with the neo-liberal project that has resulted in, cheaper junk ... (show full quote)



That’s the point of the article... that since World War Two Sweden has created a false identity for themselves and since then they try to keep the lie afloat with their virtue signaling moral compass of the world bullshit.

And dude, if all that “cheap junk” that we get from China was manufactured elsewhere.... it would be insanely expensive... so enjoy.

And clothing... funny how it’s H and M that uses Bangladesh as their production hub.... funny how h and m is a Swedish company... funny how, like this article, you are incapable of understanding that it is the Swedish h and m clothes that are shit because they, the Swedish company, allows it. Quality control? But of course, Sweden is never to blame, they are perfect in every way, if only everyone else could be like them. It’s the Chinese and Bangladeshis fault.

Point the finger at yourself for once, native Swede, not everywhere else.

But thanks for being a shining example of what the article is getting at to an extent.
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skogsbo
post 15.May.2019, 10:26 AM
Post #10
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 15.May.2019, 09:15 AM) *
That’s the point of the article... that since World War Two Sweden has created a false identity for themselves and since then they try to keep the lie afloat with their virt ... (show full quote)

Or USA as the policeman of the world. They've started as many fights themselves as they have resolved.
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nativeswedishengineer
post 15.May.2019, 10:35 AM
Post #11
Joined: 7.Nov.2017

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 15.May.2019, 11:15 AM) *
That’s the point of the article... that since World War Two Sweden has created a false identity for themselves and since then they try to keep the lie afloat with their virt ... (show full quote)


So instead of answering the post you qouted, you post some more soapboxing. Are you an alt account for gjeebes?
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cootje1976
post 15.May.2019, 11:05 AM
Post #12
Location: Uppsala county
Joined: 3.May.2012

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 15.May.2019, 09:26 AM) *
Or USA as the policeman of the world. They've started as many fights themselves as they have resolved.


That is correct but yet all our political leaders that are voted in follow the USA where ever they decide to play police;
and if you read the following, and I'd start from the 1960's they have been doing it always with (silent) support from other countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_U...tary_operations

Here is the thing; no country is 100% awesome and perhaps correct. But I have seen in my short time here more evidence of people not talking about the not so good side of their history; In Germany they have owned up to the fact that those things happened, and teach them in schools to understand why, and to prevent it from happening in that scale. Not everyone will listen, but then it is out there, and you make your own decision.

They have made sure to highlight what happened with the jews; some streets in Berlin, in front houses where Jews and other undesirables were deported, they created signs for the young generation to see and ask questions about what happened. People there are allowed to openly vent and discuss these points and not to see it just as a stigma.

Here it seems that it is avoided as cancer. If you bring it up, people shrug and continue with their live. People sometimes seem disconnected from their past and do not seem to want to 'own' it; just to sweep it under the rug and continue like as if it never existed is the way it is being done here, and therefore actual lessons of 'why, how, and where' are never discussed.

Sticking ones head in the sand does not make the problem 'disappear'.

It even public secret that the majority of the Swedish riches come from that period of dealing with the Nazis. And that to the very high top, even royals were, in that time, avid supporters of some, if not all of the Nazi ideology.

It is now just boxed somewhere for safekeeping and starts to leak out I guess...

At least the Norwegians owned it, as have many other countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_purge_i...er_World_War_II

And just searching on the following in google (add any country): nazi collaborators france

Shows that the rest of the countries did not stick their heads in the sand...

And This is actually even scarier:
Sweden's Refusal to Prosecute Nazi War Criminals
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-zuroff-f02.htm
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Saywhatwhat
post 15.May.2019, 11:30 AM
Post #13
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 15.May.2019, 11:26 AM) *
Or USA as the policeman of the world. They've started as many fights themselves as they have resolved.


Well, look at it this way... would you rather USA do it or Russia and China?
Europe benefits greatly from USA world police... they are able to not pay into a strong military for themselves which allows them to provide a greater social net. If the USA wasn’t there, the Soviet Union would still exist, and who knows... maybe they would expand and expand.

America has plenty of blood on their hands, no doubt. But let’s not forget USA is less than 300 years old. You think Europe was behaving until big bad usa came along?

And yes trump isn’t a good guy and spouts ridiculous nonsense about Mexicans. But fact is, Mexicans are very accepted and well integrated into America. Mexican culture, like many cultures, makes up America. And there are also many Mexican people in positions of power... business and politics. Try saying that about foreigners in Sweden.

But golly. An article about Sweden taking a look at itself and people continue to point the finger elsewhere.




QUOTE (nativeswedishengineer @ 15.May.2019, 11:35 AM) *
So instead of answering the post you qouted, you post some more soapboxing. Are you an alt account for gjeebes?


There wasn’t a single question in your post. Lol! What is wrong with you... you just took another opportunity to soapbox your hatred of immigrant labor.

Puhleaaase







To both... this isn’t an attack on Sweden... this is the truth swedes hide from constantly. And this article is about the consequences of hiding from the truth just to keep a good Swede image. Damn
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Saywhatwhat
post 15.May.2019, 11:42 AM
Post #14
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (cootje1976 @ 15.May.2019, 12:05 PM) *
That is correct but yet all our political leaders that are voted in follow the USA where ever they decide to play police;and if you read the following, and I'd start from ... (show full quote)



Thank you for stressing the point and importance.

And since everyone likes to shit on USA, including US citizens, I would say the American people are good at owning up to the all the problems we have caused or been a part of. Most will gladly talk about anything. I would say the biggest fuck up is the treatment of the natives before the Spanish French and British colonists took over. It’s talked about in history classes, the wretch Andrew Jackson, trail of tears, reservations and forcing them into Christianity. It’s talked about but sadly it doesn’t ring as loud as slavery and the constant mistreatment of people of color. Although they too have gained many positions of power in businesses and politics. The indigenous.... sadly, not nearly as much, not much at all.

Unless you consider Elizabeth warren hahahahahahaha
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nativeswedishengineer
post 15.May.2019, 12:08 PM
Post #15
Joined: 7.Nov.2017

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 15.May.2019, 12:30 PM) *
There wasn’t a single question in your post. Lol! What is wrong with you... you just took another opportunity to soapbox your hatred of immigrant labor. . Puhleaaase


So you totally missed the point about the fact that people might be turning right, because the neo-liberal globalist project has failed to provide any value? Yes, we get cheap crap from asia, but what is the value of that when we also get turned into day labourers?
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