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The Local _ Swedish news _ Sweden tops EU in growth

Posted by: gsurya 11.Feb.2019, 06:50 PM

This is from last year, before the elections, but is now even more relevant now that the racist bigoted anti-immigrant SweNazi party SD have been decisively marginalized.

The Swedish Govt must now push forward even more boldly in bringing in more high-quality immigrants to offset lazy locals so that Sweden can afford to keep its pensioners well taken care of

We need more lenient and welcoming immigration policies like Canada, USA, UK, NZ, Australia, France and Sweden, who are faring much better in immigration than Sweden.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-21/sweden-s-economy-is-getting-a-lift-from-migrants

Posted by: Gjeebes 11.Feb.2019, 07:23 PM

How many of the New Country people, are working in Sweden? What percentage?

And why is the unemployment rate for foreigners 3-4 times that of the natives?

Don't think there are quite as many tax kronor coming from the fugees, but, please, with facts, prove me wrong.

Posted by: Bsmith 11.Feb.2019, 08:09 PM

Does a malignant tumor count as growth?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 11.Feb.2019, 08:26 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 11.Feb.2019, 07:23 PM) *
How many of the New Country people, are working in Sweden? What percentage?

And why is the unemployment rate for foreigners 3-4 times that of the natives?

Don't think there are quite as many tax kronor coming from the fugees, but, please, with facts, prove me wrong.


480,000. 80%

Lack of jobs- an aging population that has already taken and held onto, some quite undeservingly, many of the jobs available in the small cities- Stockholm, Gothenburg, Malmo. Lack of trust of foreign credentials, lack of incentive to work, lack of trust in foreigners.

Facts.... ahh yes, the info that only you and those you agree with only seem privi’ed to. No one with a different opinion could possibly have facts. Obviously the article gsurya posted was fake news and full of made up numbers.

I’m curious, what is your ideal country?? What country is doing “it” the best?

Does it hurt to hear immigrants and refugees aren’t destroying the world, rather, making it better?


QUOTE (Bsmith @ 11.Feb.2019, 08:09 PM) *
Does a malignant tumor count as growth?


How flippant to the point.

Does it hurt to hear immigrants and refugees aren’t destroying the world, rather, making it better?

Posted by: wallace1837 12.Feb.2019, 03:36 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 11.Feb.2019, 07:23 PM) *
How many of the New Country people, are working in Sweden? What percentage?

And why is the unemployment rate for foreigners 3-4 times that of the natives?

Don't think there are quite as many tax kronor coming from the fugees, but, please, with facts, prove me wrong.


You are right...

Here are some number. Foreign educated people are close to 3 times more likely to not be employed than Swedes with the same level of education https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=MIG_EMP_EDUCATION

https://www.thelocal.se/20180614/swedish-unemployment-drops-again-but-foreigners-still-have-a-tougher-time

Employment rate of refugees after years in Sweden only one if 5 men and one in 10 women: http://www.nordregio.org/nordregio-magazine/issues/migration-and-integration/the-labour-market-integration-of-refugees-in-sweden/

Posted by: Gjeebes 12.Feb.2019, 04:29 AM

"480,000. 80%"

Amazing! Why didn't you make it an even 500,000, since you're just pulling numbers out of your ass?

Posted by: Gjeebes 12.Feb.2019, 04:32 AM

"Foreign educated people are close to 3 times more likely to not be employed than Swedes with the same level of education"

Sweden considers you employed, when you are unemployed, if you are taking the slightest course or on one of their useless programmes...I would think if they are claiming 3x, it's more likely 5-6x in reality.

If Sweden is good at one thing, it is making the nothingness look like success.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 07:33 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 12.Feb.2019, 04:29 AM) *
"480,000. 80%"

Amazing! Why didn't you make it an even 500,000, since you're just pulling numbers out of your ass?


It’s in the posted article. Oh but that’s right, only what drives your narrative are facts. It’s not like 80% of 600k is... well what is it?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 07:34 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 12.Feb.2019, 04:32 AM) *
"Foreign educated people are close to 3 times more likely to not be employed than Swedes with the same level of education"

Sweden considers you employed, when you are unemployed, if you are taking the slightest course or on one of their useless programmes...I would think if they are claiming 3x, it's more likely 5-6x in reality.

If Sweden is good at one thing, it is making the nothingness look like success.


Do you have facts for this?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 07:44 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 12.Feb.2019, 03:36 AM) *
Employment rate of refugees after years in Sweden only one if 5 men and one in 10 women: http://www.nordregio.org/nordregio-magazine/issues/migration-and-integration/the-labour-market-integration-of-refugees-in-sweden/


That figure is after one or two years... as stated in that article. It is misleading when you simply say, “years”

That was a fair and sympathetic article.


Posted by: Billy_UK 12.Feb.2019, 12:50 PM

Data from 2000-2016 showed it took eight years for half of refugees who arrived during that period to gain employment. 65% were in employment after 16 years. Data also shows it takes longer for those with lower education levels to gain employment. You won’t get any data for the newest arrivals for at least ten years but bearing in mind their education levels (which for the majority is below gymnasium level) and previous data it’s not hard to see what the numbers will look like in the future.

https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Arbetsmarknad/Integration/forvarvsfrekvens-efter-vistelsetid-och-utbildningsniva/

The growth of the economy was/is due to strong exports and strong consumption, not refugees/immigrants entering the labour market. There’s even a link to an article in that Bloomberg piece where the reasons given for the growth were exports and consumption. Several hundred thousands of refugees living off government handouts and spending is going to increase consumption.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (Billy_UK @ 12.Feb.2019, 12:50 PM) *
You won’t get any data for the newest arrivals for at least ten years...

https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Arbetsmarknad/Integration/forvarvsfrekvens-efter-vistelsetid-och-utbildningsniva/

The growth of the economy was/is due to strong exports and strong consumption, not refugees/immigrants entering the labour market. There’s even a link to an article in that Bloomberg piece where the reasons given for the growth were exports and consumption. Several hundred thousands of refugees living off government handouts and spending is going to increase consumption.


There was not extensive data in the original article posted but there was data.

And increased consumption boosts the economy. Why had the consumption increased? Oh, right, immigrants and refugees spending money... not all govt handouts. The economy grows, businesses are healthier, employees salaries raise...

Seems more like an investment to me... one that has historically paid off. Invest in immigrants and there is a return. Usually in the long term, it this article is focusing on short term growth... due to...

Posted by: gsurya 12.Feb.2019, 04:38 PM

Its a fact in all countries that immigration is costly up-front but pays off in the long run.

Of course the state has to make an investment in getting immigrants up to speed, integrated, employed etc.

Overall it is well proven that the investments made in immigrants is never wasted, it only has positive benefits for countries like Sweden, that is why it is so popular and countries are fiercely competing for us immigrants.

Posted by: Billy_UK 12.Feb.2019, 04:42 PM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 12.Feb.2019, 04:25 PM) *
There was not extensive data in the original article posted but there was data.

And increased consumption boosts the economy. Why had the consumption increased? Oh, right, immigrants and refugees spending money... not all govt handouts. The economy grows, businesses are healthier, employees salaries raise...

Seems more like an investment to me... one that has historically paid off. Invest in immigrants and there is a return. Usually in the long term, it this article is focusing on short term growth... due to...


Obviously immigrants on work permits isn’t government handouts. The majority of refugee consumption will be government handouts because the majority of those are unemployed. The refugee influx will have also created extra jobs in schools, hospitals, government agencies etc. That again would’ve contributed to the growth of the economy. That’s an entirely different thing to refugees/immigrants being employed.

As for being a good investment, a study that looked at refugees in Sweden over a 32 year period has shown that over their lifetimes refugees are a net cost of 74,000 kronor per year per refugee, once you’ve factored in what they pay in tax and what they take out in benefits.

https://www.svd.se/tre-miljoner-kronor-per-flykting

Posted by: skogsbo 12.Feb.2019, 04:51 PM

QUOTE (Billy_UK @ 12.Feb.2019, 03:42 PM) *
Obviously immigrants on work permits isn’t government handouts. The majority of refugee consumption will be government handouts because the majority of those are unemployed. The refugee influx will have also created extra jobs in schools, hospitals, government agencies etc. That again would’ve contributed to the growth of the economy. That’s an entirely different thing to refugees/immigrants being employed.

As for being a good investment, a study that looked at refugees in Sweden over a 32 year period has shown that over their lifetimes refugees are a net cost of 74,000 kronor per year per refugee, once you’ve factored in what they pay in tax and what they take out in benefits.

https://www.svd.se/tre-miljoner-kronor-per-flykting


The problem is sweden needs to up it's game and follow the USA or UK model. It needs to offset the cost and sell more weapons that cause the wars in the countries the refugees flee from.

Posted by: Uncle Fred 12.Feb.2019, 05:34 PM

The article is fake news, it fails to capture the real reality in Sweden, that of damage to property, assaults on local people and drug dealing, etc.
The real news is the government is placing the majority of immigrants into public sector jobs and paying them, thus misreporting real employment. I have personally witnessed all this I write about.
Very little of this is reported as not to cause further issues.
Of course, there may be a handful of skilled immigrants that are taking up real jobs, no one is denying that.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 05:40 PM

QUOTE (Billy_UK @ 12.Feb.2019, 04:42 PM) *
Obviously immigrants on work permits isn’t government handouts. The majority of refugee consumption will be government handouts because the majority of those are unemployed. The refugee influx will have also created extra jobs in schools, hospitals, government agencies etc. That again would’ve contributed to the growth of the economy. That’s an entirely different thing to refugees/immigrants being employed.

As for being a good investment, a study that looked at refugees in Sweden over a 32 year period has shown that over their lifetimes refugees are a net cost of 74,000 kronor per year per refugee, once you’ve factored in what they pay in tax and what they take out in benefits.

https://www.svd.se/tre-miljoner-kronor-per-flykting


Yes, good points that they have also created jobs. In the studies I have seen they lump together refugees and immigrants As new arrivals.

Haven’t read the article you linked yet but just stating the cost and not the return has no point. I have also read they cost 8,000$ a year but their contributions could very well outweigh the cost.

And if you are saying unemployed people with refugee status are costing that much per year over a 32 year period.... then that is Sweden’s fault for granting asylum for a 32 year period.

Either way... immigrants and refugees are contributing to economic growth in many ways. That is a good thing for them and the natives whose country’s economy grows stronger because of welcoming in people. Sure, they should have done it at a slower rate considering Sweden’s size, but it obviously isn’t hurting Sweden.


QUOTE (skogsbo @ 12.Feb.2019, 04:51 PM) *
The problem is sweden needs to up it's game and follow the USA or UK model. It needs to offset the cost and sell more weapons that cause the wars in the countries the refugees flee from.


Oh but they do! They contribute very much to the crisis in Yemen. Too lazy to post an article but just google Sweden’s arms deals with Saudi Arabia and UAE.

Posted by: Gjeebes 12.Feb.2019, 05:54 PM

"Why had the consumption increased?"

Because of dirt cheap loans, you tard. Not exactly a secret, the extraordinary debt levels of the Meatballs.

Same dirt cheap loans will bankrupt family after family, once the payments increase as the Riksbank continues to raise prime rates.

Duh. It's like the 90's never happened.

"I have also read they cost 8,000$ a year but their contributions could very well outweigh the cost."

That's some fine lefty-nutter optimism you got goin on there. What is it based on though? Sympathy? Political correctness?

Do you "have-a-dream", you ole virtue-hound you?

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 06:02 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 12.Feb.2019, 05:54 PM) *
"Why had the consumption increased?"

Because of dirt cheap loans, you tard. Not exactly a secret, the extraordinary debt levels of the Meatballs.

Same dirt cheap loans will bankrupt family after family, once the payments increase as the Riksbank continues to raise prime rates.

Duh. It's like the 90's never happened.

"I have also read they cost 8,000$ a year but their contributions could very well outweigh the cost."

That's some fine lefty-nutter optimism you got goin on there. What is it based on though? Sympathy? Political correctness?

Do you "have-a-dream", you ole virtue-hound you?


Loans have a part. Although they increased interest rates so that is not the deciding factor in economic growth.

The other statement is based on that thing called history.

Posted by: nativeswedishengineer 12.Feb.2019, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (gsurya @ 12.Feb.2019, 04:38 PM) *
Its a fact in all countries that immigration is costly up-front but pays off in the long run.

Of course the state has to make an investment in getting immigrants up to speed, integrated, employed etc.

Overall it is well proven that the investments made in immigrants is never wasted, it only has positive benefits for countries like Sweden, that is why it is so popular and countries are fiercely competing for us immigrants.


The danish governement recently wanted to relax the requirements on minimum wage to issue work visas for citizens from a selection of countries. Guess what? Neither India, nor Pakistan nor Bangladesh was deemed to contribute workers of such a quality that an easing in visa requirements were mandated.
And why do such superior specimen who are in demand in every country on earth need help from the government to get employed? There should be shootouts on the tarmac at Arlanda between representatives of big successfull it companies fighting for the opportunity to hire these superior workers.

Posted by: Uncle Fred 12.Feb.2019, 07:38 PM

This is why gsurya is so pissed and needs to come to Sweden.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-20265583

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 08:25 PM

QUOTE (Uncle Fred @ 12.Feb.2019, 07:38 PM) *
This is why gsurya is so pissed and needs to come to Sweden.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-20265583


What are you smoking, uncle? Gsurya is IN sweden

Posted by: Uncle Fred 12.Feb.2019, 08:52 PM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 12.Feb.2019, 08:25 PM) *
What are you smoking, uncle? Gsurya is IN sweden

I am smoking nothing, I said "needs to come to Sweden" meaning he is already hear, may be grammar is different where you come from.

Posted by: intrepidfox 12.Feb.2019, 08:52 PM

QUOTE (Saywhatwhat @ 12.Feb.2019, 08:25 PM) *
What are you smoking, uncle? Gsurya is IN sweden



If you read the article, the date was 2015

Posted by: Uncle Fred 12.Feb.2019, 08:53 PM

Look out Gamla's online.

Posted by: Saywhatwhat 12.Feb.2019, 09:36 PM

QUOTE (Uncle Fred @ 12.Feb.2019, 08:52 PM) *
I am smoking nothing, I said "needs to come to Sweden" meaning he is already hear, may be grammar is different where you come from.


Yes where I am from the appropriate form would have been past tense, needED, not the present tense like you used since that implies there is a present need for him to come to Sweden.... since the article was from 2015.

Please explained your view because me was so dum dum now.

QUOTE (intrepidfox @ 12.Feb.2019, 08:52 PM) *
If you read the article, the date was 2015


Yes, which means it was why he needED to move to Sweden. Since I’m playing along with that idea.



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