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What is the definition of integration?

All immigrants need to uphold and obey the law.

moh
post 4.Mar.2010, 10:13 PM
Post #1
Joined: 13.May.2009

hi

i came to realize that the swedish media and the politicians are debating alot,almost daily, about the need for the immigrants to integrate into the swedish society, learn swedish,culture..etc.Concequently the swedish society indentifies and sigles out the immigrants as ignorant,people with diffrent and inferior culture to their own and 'Need' to learn the swedish culture and live per swedes.

people need to learn the language to survive and suppor themselves and their families,therefore this has nothing to do with where one comes from, everyone needs that.

the result of this is that the swedes never accept and mix with the immigrants as long as they have the feeling of superiority which they get from their perception on the need for immigrants to 'integrate'.

this is how people are everywhere..the higer 'class' dont intermingle with the lower one.

the whole system of 'integration' just produces counter effet of segregation.

whats you view on this?

MVH
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nic_tester
post 4.Mar.2010, 10:32 PM
Post #2
Joined: 17.Jan.2008

Here is a crash course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqEzt82bog
biggrin.gif
Not sure if its funny for the locallers but for a swede like me its hilarious biggrin.gif
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nic_tester
post 4.Mar.2010, 10:36 PM
Post #3
Joined: 17.Jan.2008

whats you view on this?
My view is that sweden is an old nationstate that formed its deep-set ways and attitudes when the population was exceedingly homgenous (bad climate=no invasions). Thus the amounts of immigrants we see today is a great shock to swedes and will cause great strife in the future.
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swozzie
post 4.Mar.2010, 11:48 PM
Post #4
Joined: 8.Oct.2009

QUOTE (nic_tester @ 4.Mar.2010, 10:32 PM) *
Here is a crash course:. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqEzt82bog. biggrin.gif . Not sure if its funny for the locallers but for a swede like me its hilarious biggrin.gif

Yep It's absolutely hilarious for this localler. Wish it wasn't so spot on but then it wouldn't BE hilarious.
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Awaydays
post 5.Mar.2010, 10:29 PM
Post #5
Joined: 2.Feb.2010

The one in Systembolaget is fucking brilliant!
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mammush
post 5.Mar.2010, 11:36 PM
Post #6
Joined: 6.Nov.2009

your thoughts are completely true thought i am skeptical if the mojority who read these have the capacity to understand you.
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astrogenic
post 6.Mar.2010, 01:04 AM
Post #7
Joined: 16.Oct.2006

QUOTE (moh @ 4.Mar.2010, 11:13 PM) *
whats you view on this?. MVH

I think immigrants are as much to blame as the native Swedes. There are way too many immigrants, especially Muslims, whose sole interest is to preserve, not to commit to, the rules and norms of the Swedish society they are accepted into.

Take, Asians (Muslims or not), for example.

Have you seen any Asian males holding hand in hand with BLACK girls or kissing with Black girls, let alone marrying one?

Why not? Because they are themselves RACIST, who just cannot accept the equality amongst ALL races! All they want is, if they don't get married with their own kind, is to marry a "white" girl, because Asians themselves believe in what Nationalists in the West believe - superiority of white population above and beyond black population!!

Unless these immigrants changes THEIR OWN social norms and rules, then it is expected that they themselves will be discriminated.

Taking of double standard! Flipping immigrants!
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Rick Methven
post 6.Mar.2010, 07:20 AM
Post #8
Location: Linköping
Joined: 30.Nov.2005

QUOTE (nic_tester @ 4.Mar.2010, 10:36 PM) *
whats you view on this?My view is that sweden is an old nationstate that formed its deep-set ways and attitudes when the population was exceedingly homgenous (bad climate=no i ... (show full quote)

I think that you have hit the nail on the head

28 years ago my wifes 10 year old Swedish niece came on a visit to us in Paris. Being brought up in a small Swedish town she was amazed by the number of Africans walking around the streets. The only Africans she had ever seen where in films laugh.gif
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astrogenic
post 6.Mar.2010, 07:55 AM
Post #9
Joined: 16.Oct.2006

And, now French, as well as many other Western nations, are somewhat regretting the fact that they have so many immigrants.

This is all because too many immigrants want all their desires met while neglecting or worse ignoring to fulfill any desires of native population.
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byke
post 6.Mar.2010, 08:17 AM
Post #10
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

I really wonder about the legitimacy of some of these threads. rolleyes.gif
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Mib
post 6.Mar.2010, 11:51 AM
Post #11
Joined: 7.Jul.2006

It's funny, but as a Brit, when I need to deal with some bad Swedish service, I make my accent more posh, forceful and look directly in their eyes to make be come across as superior. And normally they start to question their own argument and normally do the right thing. I wonder what the reaction would be if I was from Somalia and tried to do the same thing?

Integration as an ideal is so full of hypocrisy. When Swedes live in Thailand, they go to where there are other Swedes. When the Brits move to Spain, they still want to have their fried breakfast and watch English TV. So, why are people surprised when immigrants move to Sweden, that they tend to associate with their people.

Anyway, integration is a 2 way street. Immigrants even with good Swedish and determination still find it very hard to get a job in Sweden, even when the times werebetter. There are hundreds of posts on here with people telling of stories where they cannot even get a cleaning job etc.

I don't know why any nation like Sweden or the Brits would have a high opinion of themselves. Maybe, it's a way to ignore the failings of their own societies. We're all made of flesh & blood.

Integration is a failing of the Government, but it also takes a couple of generations for it to truly happen. The UK is an example of that, but still has a way to go. Recently, Sweden has taken a higher number of refugees than other countries and these people need special help as some of them have seen horrific scenes that we will never experience. Also, some immigrants come from a life which deals differently with certain situations and need time to adjust.

In essence, the only way this can be improved is for a determined Government policy with adequate resources. But, unfortunately, Swedes like any other nation, want to be prioritised with regards to social welfare, taxes etc, which normally means that there are not enough resources to deal with these kind of important issues. But, when resources are available, it seems that idealism gets in the way of providing what is truly needed
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mammush
post 6.Mar.2010, 02:41 PM
Post #12
Joined: 6.Nov.2009

integration is not properly defined and it's just used as a tool to give the swedes a mentality that the immigrants are 'the others'

I always thought that it must be very difficult for a 'swede' who is born to a foreign parents and experiences racism from indiginous swedes and when I met a woman who was born here some 27 year and told me the most difficult and part is when every knew person she meets ask her where she came from. Why? may be she needs to act in a certain way or speak swedish with some accent.But that was not the case at all,it's because of her skin COLOUR,yes! are swedes racist because they ask that question? the answer is no,coz anybody asks that question.BUT why do we do that,my opinion is that in sweden people have an idea at the back of their heads that people with foreign(non swede) appearance are not part of the society.
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nic_tester
post 6.Mar.2010, 03:44 PM
Post #13
Joined: 17.Jan.2008

The ugly truth is that blood is thicker than water.
After all, who do you feel most solidarity with in life? Your mother, father, sons and daughters. And spouse, brothers, sisters. Then mebbe close friends, colleges, extended family. But for most people it doesnt stop there, it just gets more subtle. Aquiantences, people with the same dialect. And then probably people with same language and same heritige. And thats as far as it goes for most people, the rest is rethorics and grandstanding. Or "intellectual" lojalty that is not felt in the gut. Ask some1 to kill for their ideas and 9 out of 10 will say no. Ask some1 to kill for their country and 5 out of 10 might say no. As was proven beyond any doubt during the 20th centuary, ideology lose, nationalism win.

Its no coincidence that the wellfare state was most prominent in old european nationstates. It was more successfull the more homogenous the population, noone wanted to pay most of their money in taxes if they didnt feel great kinship with the other members of society. Compare it to the USA for example? There the nationalist drum has to be beaten every day as loudly as possible for the nation to stay together. Obviously nationalism was much stronger in Sweden than in the US, we didnt even have to mention it for it to do its magic, the americans have to keep babbling about it all day long to get any juice at all out of it.

Multiculturalism is such a daft idea. It is to invite strife and chaos where there was peace and order. People have divided themselves into ethnic groups since time immemorial and the result is always conflict with other ethnic groups. I mean, why would it be different the 23 429 933rd time than the other 23 429 932 times? People see a lull in the violence and conflict like juguslavia under tito and immidiately start to say all is dandy and build pretty palaces out of words with a foundation of air. And then it comes tumbling down and every1 loses. Its just hardwired into the human brain.

Sure, a "multiculturalist" society might be somewhat possible in sweden. But not together with a wellfare state. And with alot of hatred that did not exist before. Crime will be higher, taxes harder to collect, public services will be abused, benefits will be abused. In short, a colder, less caring and more hatful place.
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Rick Methven
post 6.Mar.2010, 03:58 PM
Post #14
Location: Linköping
Joined: 30.Nov.2005

A sad view with unfortunately more thana glimer of truth
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byke
post 6.Mar.2010, 05:41 PM
Post #15
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

I dont know, I just think the immigration policy has been pushed too hard as of late ... along with a world wide recession it has just caused resentment within the white svensson society.

You need to remember that while sweden has taken in people in the past it has been on their terms and in smaller numbers. But with Sweden needing to take in people rather than just looking good on the refugee front its now in a different league.

Other countries have a long history of multiculturalism working fairly well (Examples : london, new york) ... but the difference is it has a long standing history of different groups being allowed to get on with it, rather than this forced assimilation that is ever so present in common society today.

I must say I much prefer the sweden I knew of 15 odd years ago, to the Sweden of today.

The language laws of summer 2009 was the tipping table for me, as it just went to show how insecure, yet arrogantly elitist sweden see's foreign people over here. (and I am white with a swedish "sveny" father!)

Truth is, Sweden needs immigrants almost more than immigrants need sweden.
Its just Sweden is trying to bluff the image that its economic and social system is that of many moons ago.
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