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Swedish schools discipline & social media

Is Sweden strict enough?

*Smorgs*
post 24.Apr.2016, 09:35 AM
Post #1


We're thinking of moving to Stockholm, and the main challenge that we have is trying to work out how the discipline works in school.

We have kids (11 and 8) who are in school in London. There the discipline is strict - in that you can't swear, shout at teachers and generally disrupt the class. It seems to us that in the schools we've looked at the general feedback has been that if there's a disruptive kid then they are allowed to stay in the class - which is to the detriment of everyone else. Has anyone any experience of how the 'looser' disciplinarianism of schools in Stockholm really impacts teaching and learning?

Another issue is that of social media and gaming consumption. In London, we already think our kids spend too much time on instagram, playing games, watching media on iPads etc. - but in Stockholm it seems that kids spend their time in Fritids just playing on digital devices. This seems to add up to 15 hours a week, which is way too much in our opinion! Our thoughts are that we'd just insist that they don't, or even just only allow them to go to after school clubs 2/3 days a week - but clearly our kids won't like being different.

If anyone has any insights into these topics - please share your thoughts and comments with me! Thanks so much!!!
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littleviking
post 24.Apr.2016, 07:37 PM
Post #2
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

the disciplinary might be more lenient but kids are more social.
In sweden all children have the right and the obligation to study, and not be discriminated because they might have so development problems neither for just begin rude.
They have to adjust the study to each and every child, sometimes.

sending a child out of the classroom is illegal. think as a parent you take your child to school, some teacher through him out of class then instead of the child being at least safe, the kid decided to run of somewhere goes and lets say hurts him self... what do you think happens... the school is responsible, you cant just put away the kids that are not perfect this is not how education works.
And in the end what will the other children learn, will they learn if they dont like someone or someone is different you should include them?.In real life you have to work with all sorts of people, you have to learn with all sorts of people and if you cant do that you will become an outcast. Who will hire someone that will say i cant work with john because just is disruptive...
The fact that children are kicked out from class no matter what reason is very very wrong.
If you kids see that children are discriminated they will learn to do the same.

On a separate idea i teach english part time while i am getting my teaching degree, i teach both swedes and foreigners, as well as kids that drop out of school, children that have development issues, children that speak neither swedish nor english and even children that act out. And all my students make progress because i look into their different needs. Some of my noisy ones after a private talk and a talk with out special pedagogue have discovered that they do have some learning and social problems, which their parents never bother to look into.
Last semester i had no one that failed the course and none had to retake the course. The brighter kids get extra assignments while the ones that need help get help.

Of course this depends from teacher to teacher but in the end the teacher is there to guide and present what is there to learn, explain when children have questions, if the kids refuse to learn it is the own choice. Most kids appreciate that they are treated the same and learn that discrimination is not okay. And the kids with problems improve because they see that their friends that are better at school, they learn a lot and they learn more from their friends, then if they are isolated. And the kids that do better learn about mentoring. I have 2 in my class right now that in group work they stay with the kids that need help and they decided that all on their own. The result it the kids with problems improve and the rest of the class as well.

Children in the schools i teach spend their fritids learning different things and doing sports.
In swedish schools you learn skills that are necessary to function, you learn to cook, you learn all sorts of stuff, they get help with their education and even help discover their skills and so on so like to learn to do stuff like cooking.
In Sweden kids use their Ipads for all sorts of fun school things, they get access to different tool to help then, tool to write you school stuff and send it to your teacher, platforms that their can find homework and even extra stuff they they can do if they want to, dictionary, tool for children with learning disabilities. Personally i have about 20 apps i use with the kids and teach them who to use those to help them learn fast and maybe in a more fun way.

Technology should be used in the right way. Since they are so young outside of school it is your responsibility to limit their use. It is really not good to have so much access to social media, and as far as i know that most require you to be 13 or 15 in order to get an account. I would suggest looking in to some parental lock apps so you can limit the kids access. Gaming can be good but it also matter what types of games they play. Farmville on Facebook would not be my suggestion for kids...

Since we regularly update the kids at schools IPad's they get from school we see what they have installed on their own
You cant know what your kids will do in their fritid at school, it varies very much and their personal wishes will matter.
usually stuff they can get is sports and health, music, and many more. This times is used to help them develop.
Kids get to be guided and do as many nice things, some of our kids like doing sports

Most kids in school do some kind of sports, we have only a couple that have medical problems in taking part of regular sport clubs but they still go with the school at swim lessons.
I dont live in stockholm i am more in småland in a relatively smaller town and still we have swim clubs, football, handball, hockey, innebandy, running clubs , in the end all sorts of activities and even in summer to do as much outside.
Children go regularly out with the school from dagis-daycare to high-school.
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LLHope
post 25.Apr.2016, 08:34 AM
Post #3
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 1.Jan.2014

It depends on which school(s). Which schools have you checked and received feedback about?
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Dr.danial
post 25.Apr.2016, 11:58 AM
Post #4
Location: Stockholm county
Joined: 25.Jun.2015

QUOTE (Smorgs @ 24.Apr.2016, 10:35 AM) *
We're thinking of moving to Stockholm, and the main challenge that we have is trying to work out how the discipline works in school.We have kids (11 and 8) who are in scho ... (show full quote)


Don't expect strict discipline in swedish schools, but in some international schools (what i learned from colleagues), a friend's kid goes to rodabergsskolan, and he is happy with the discipline standards of them.
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smullyan
post 25.Apr.2016, 04:11 PM
Post #5
Joined: 9.Dec.2015

Sweden is one of the worlds great tech societies and that is something that you will have to get used to (especially in Stockholm), everything is done online here, everything. Many kids are given iPads/tablets to play with from the time they are 2 and its not unusual to see 7 year olds with smart phones at school. While you may want to shelter your kids, your kids are going to want to fit in, so be ready for that.

As for schools, take a look at the rankings and choose accordingly. There are some really great schools and some horrible schools, definitely do your homework. The hard sciences and mathematics rankings have fallen dramatically in the last 10 years so make sure the school you choose has teachers that have actually studied these subjects as currently with the shortage there is definitely not enough real maths/physics/chem teachers to go around so corners are being cut. As for discipline, well that again depends on the school. For instance, kids are allowed to talk during class, be on their phones, videotape during class ect and they can't be thrown out. The bad apples tend to ruin it for the kids that want to be there and there is very much a culture of hush hush in terms of not saying anything bad or negative about the situation. You will find there is a large turnover of teachers at many schools so once again do your homework. In a recent polling Swedish teachers scored near the top of the world for the question "If you could go back to school would you still choose to become a teacher?". 53% of Swedish teachers said they would never go into teaching if they knew then what they know now. Teachers definitely got the short straw in Sweden.

As for fritids, there are a ton to choose from and I recommend putting your kids into some kind of sport to keep them active. Sports aren't done through schools you actually need to join a special club for whatever sport it is they wish to play.
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LLHope
post 25.Apr.2016, 06:02 PM
Post #6
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 1.Jan.2014

QUOTE (Smorgs @ 24.Apr.2016, 08:35 AM) *
we already think our kids spend too much time on instagram, playing games, watching media on iPads etc. - but in Stockholm it seems that kids...
...and my parents didn't like the fact that I listened to Heavy Rock/Metal, watched a few cool programs on TV and read Science Fiction novels amongst other things... Times Change. I have growing kids in Swedish schools and it indeed is a battle to forget the past ... they are connected to their friends almost 24x7, it is THE thing of new generations, like it or not...it just is...they will do it anyway. Meet them or lose them.
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littleviking
post 25.Apr.2016, 06:37 PM
Post #7
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

smullyan you make it seem like its impossible for students that dont act out to learn but as said before you would be surprised to know that most do just fine, some will the valuable lesson that you have to do your job no matter with who you have to work(which adults never seem to learn even after 10 years of working) and some of them will try and succeed in mentoring others. Kids these day are bright and i mean bright and learn important lesson from a young age and that is good. Classes also tend to regulate themselves i thought it was bull s((t when the school said that and i was very pleasantly surprised. I have had in the last year 15 classes of different ages, really not as horrible as some say.
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smullyan
post 26.Apr.2016, 12:24 PM
Post #8
Joined: 9.Dec.2015

QUOTE (littleviking @ 25.Apr.2016, 07:37 PM) *
smullyan you make it seem like its impossible for students that dont act out to learn but as said before you would be surprised to know that most do just fine, some will the v ... (show full quote)



Like I said littleviking it all comes down to doing your homework. There are some really great schools, some average schools and plenty of horrible schools. It sounds like you are enjoying your time which is great, keep it up! Perhaps you would consider taking your expertise to one of the schools that need an enthusiastic teacher? I do recall the school in Trollhattan that just had the multiple stabbing by the sword wielding nazi has a pass rate of only 16% (in which the pupil passes all of his classes for the year) for 15 year olds. Everyday in the news we are worried about enviornmental this and equality that, how about worrying about why only 16% of a whole years class can pass all of their courses instead? Like I said, a hush hush mentality.
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LLHope
post 26.Apr.2016, 02:15 PM
Post #9
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 1.Jan.2014

QUOTE (Savage @ 26.Apr.2016, 05:06 AM) *
The biggest issue you will face in any school in Sweden will come down to funding. As unfortunately the education system in Sweden has been grossly underfunded for a good 20+ ... (show full quote)
Spoken like a true Socialist.

If you had listened to the OECD presentation and read the OECD special investigation into Sweden's education system you would know for fact that they say that is NOT the issue. They said the lower(est) priority is funding, in fact Sweden is in the top end in spend-per-student across the OECD, and it also has one of the smallest class size averages (around 18-19 students per class) across the OECD.

The issue they said was clearly management, the root of evil can be tracked back to the 90's when the Socialist Gov. handed power over schools from State to Kommun level. The Kommuns have devastated the education system with a focus on useless fluffy things, and bare minimum required according to the national curriculum. Also that the teachers are quite simply crap. Not forgetting the problem in many schools due to mass immigration.

Yet...the Socialist government try to ignore the message from the OECD and continue to spout the we need to waste more tax payers money on education, rather than fix it, and have smaller class sizes! (already have) ...I tend now to believe that they mean physically smaller classrooms, so they can use the other parts of the school as asylboende rolleyes.gif
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DragonReborninSweden
post 26.Apr.2016, 03:11 PM
Post #10
Joined: 8.Feb.2016

So discipline is quite different (and loose), as you can imagine by people saying crazy stuff like "if you kick out a kid, he could go off wandering on his own and hurt himself!"

No, if you kick a kid out of class-room, he will go to detention. Kids in the US are not simply allowed to run-around on their own during school hours. They must be in their class-room, or need a pass from the teacher to even be in the halls in between periods. Any kids without a pass will be sent to the principal's office. Skipping school/class will also result in in-school suspension and detention, and serious consequences from day 1. These are not the case in Sweden.

Response to OP starts here:
Children are treated like adults, and are expected to behave like adults, including controlling their own impulses and pace of study. If they over-perform, they will not be put in a more advanced class, but are instead expected to just do more challenging things. This means that you, as the parent, have a HUGE role in impressing upon them the expectation to be a proper learner, as well as for them to take responsibility for their own education and future.

There are some very good schools, which teach on the level of the best prep-schools/ first-year Ivy-League universities. (See for example Viktor Rydberg in STHLM). There are also much worse ones. Make sure that your kid takes their grades seriously, and can get in to the good schools. A lot of the work is "optional", as in not graded, but it falls up to each kid to do this optional work to a level so that they can pass the classes with A level requirements.

Finally, it is also looked upon negatively for parents to be too involved with their kids education, especially in high-school, so it is crucial for you to teach them proper responsibility and habits at an early age.

All in all, the OPPORTUNITY to succeed is very high in the Swedish education system, but it is essentially left up to the devices of each student, with no proper reward or punishment mechanisms in place until the end of their schooling, when all of a sudden they cannot get in to the best programs.
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Gjeebes
post 27.Apr.2016, 07:41 PM
Post #11
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

"All in all, the OPPORTUNITY to succeed is very high in the Swedish education system"

Sure, but what does "succeed" actually mean in Sweden? There are no correction mechanisms. Failure is considered as punishment. And so is home-work. Hence, everyone "succeeds". Kind of like everyone wins the Gold Medal, which makes the whole idea of "winning Gold" meaningless. This is on top of the fact that Swedish students are in fact never really evaluated against any kind of standard, more so at uni. And when problems, "heaven-forbid", might be identified, there is little to no mechanism/protocol in place to deal with it, or, "heaven-forbid" correct it.

The main emphasis of the Swedish education "model" seems to be to generate the same result in each and every student, rather than to encourage students to excel. And Sweden is very good at it. Let's just wait for the next PISA/OECD results shall we, to see how much better they got at it this year.

In typical Swedish do-gooder style enters the fabled "quest for equality", which is just another way of setting the bar to the lowest possible level, so that everyone can feel "smart", even if in actual fact they are not. The whole system celebrates mediocrity and shuns excellence.

And when these little "learners" grow into big "learners" and they hit the ridiculously expensive, pre-paid "free" uni, the university teacher's union monthly has headline issues with front page stories like, "Teaching students on the 13 year old level requires a new approach", a story which emphasised how Sweden's uni students have tiny attention spans and struggle comprehending short texts of information, while explaining the poor performance levels observed (and why uni's are continuously dumbing down the courses to fit the lowered student "abilities") .

Another issue presented a story with regards to how Swedish children remain "as children" much longer in the current Swedish culture (poor job prospects means living with mama and papa for far far too long). Yet still Swedes will claim their children are really independent. laugh.gif

But they sure know how to play their games, and how to "focus" entirely on their Smart phones, even when they are walking (just like mama and papa do).

So, to the OP. Discipline? On any level? In Sweden? Good luck with that. But given the current "state-of-the-art" Swedish education model, discipline will be the least of your worries when it comes to your children's education.
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littleviking
post 27.Apr.2016, 09:36 PM
Post #12
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

my students get optional home work and even the children with severe learning disabilities do them because they thinks its fun. equality work well if you are a positive teacher and a positive parent.
Please enlighten me how is it that no one failed my course and they passed also the högskoleprov with really good grade and most of them started reading actual books.

When they miss behave be discuss what are the consequences in the long term and guess what it works because kids these days are smart and they are mini adults and if you treat them like that they see the error of their ways after they see what can happen and how it affects them in the long term

Gjeebes what do you think your kids would learn if they see that schools put the kids that need more help or are different? would they learn to work with all people not just the ones that they like, or society likes or the ones that make it easier for them? definitively no

this is the problem with society, people have no social skills and cant really work with people. In real life you dont get to pick the people you work with. In real life discrimination is not okay, not to say also illegal. By discriminating against some of the students you make your kids learn that you can only work with some and being a bully and an asshole is okay if you dont like someone. And real life doesn't work like that, the assholes end up being marginalized.
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Gjeebes
post 28.Apr.2016, 05:36 AM
Post #13
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

People don't have equal abilities, so robbing someone of the possibility to excel at something, just because someone else cannot, is a very stupid and misguided approach to teaching. Some kids are really good at math, some aren't, so what? How does it serve the kid who is good at math, to be held back at the level of the kid who cannot do math, simply because it might make the other kid feel different? This is complete non-sense!

I have a colleague, a Professor, who has several school age kids. One of his boys is just getting by in all subjects, in other words, not doing that well. But guess what the teacher tells him at the P-T meeting? "Your son is performing very well". Luckily, for the son, this Professor is NOT Swedish, and was having "none-of-that BS", I can tell you.

Sweden is so obsessed about not stepping on anyone's toes, that it becomes unfit for purpose in many many aspects, especially when it comes to education. Learning is hard work, learning requires discipline. What are you teaching our kids by permitting them to play with their phone during a lesson? Do you think that employees in companies can also ignore the task at hand, and focus on something so artificial? Or are they expected to have the discipline to get their work done, as that is why they come to "work"?

Education is not a pity-party for those who "can't", and it is quite arrogant to pretend that everyone has equal ability, when they clearly do not. And implementing a system to try to shape things this way, only does a disservice to those who "can".

I have seen it in the currents at uni, where I teach. We have students complaining there were "too many equations" in the course evaluations, for a fricken "computational chemistry" course. It's a bit like going swimming and then complaining about the water. The reason why this non-sense occurs, is because these little gems have already been conditioned by the "failed" yes, "failed" Swedish education model (for at least 20 years now), and are completely unprepared/unable to self-regulate and push themselves further, as is required in uni. That is why students can re-write exams, forever, until they finally pass. And they do re-write exams, or, even skip the first one, go on holiday, and then wait for the "re-write", which is anyway a misnomer since they didn't actually sit through the first one. Again, very good preparation for the real world, isn't it?

This is being discussed at uni's, trust me, and it is a massive problem. There have been a few uproars here and there in the media, but it has gone past completely ignored. The next crisis (already is) to hit the papers in Sweden, will be about the fall of the unis. And while many are aware, is anything being done to correct it? Haha, this Sweden, where "corrections" are "taboo" because it might upset someone. Too funny.

Another great example is how PhD degrees are done here. Swedish PhD candidates are possibly more coddled and protected, than your wee "learners". They have every resource available to them. There are (artifical) checks and balances in place, to ensure they are progressing (blah blah blah) and they are union positions, which means they "will" graduate. On the one hand this is beautiful, because they are given every possible chance to succeed, hand held the whole way. Yet the reality is, most of them can't finish on time, and require 1-2 years more. It is also impossible to evaluate these students, because their own "self-contribution" can be extremely small, but is well buried. Just come to a dissertation and count how many times the answer is, I didn't do that part, I don't know etc etc...these words in other countries, during your defence would mean, "you fail" (you know, in other countries where you are not allowed to include work in your dissertation, which you yourself have not done).

The approach you coddle in your teaching can be summarised like this. If you can't skate, you can't join the hockey team. Well, in the real world, that is. But in Sweden, if you can't skate, and really want to play hockey, well, let's just take the ice away...right?

Now, if this approach achieved anything, I would say "hats-off". But it clearly isn't working, is it?
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littleviking
post 28.Apr.2016, 10:43 AM
Post #14
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

i think you dont underdstand how thing work, each student is at a different level yes but they get work according to their own capacity. I have kids in the same grades at 4 different levels and i manage to give each one different types of work. The some kids read very basic stuff so read Shakespeare and they are encouraged to ask for more work if they want to be better.
Kids need some discipline but more then that they need to be treated with respect and encouraged and helped if they have some sort of problem. There are kids with serious learning issues that will never be diagnosed. Kids respond to guiding and encouraging better than just making then feel like little shits, or tell them if they cant focus or they are slower that they wont be able to do anything with their life or that they are worth less.

Your idea system exist in many countries and look what crappy students they send your way. Little shitty know it all's that cant work in groups, cant follow a task or an assignment or cant even think outside the box. The uni kids that know how to study because they were
taught that if you dont do what the teacher says everything and memorize you will be an outcast.
No one is saying you should cuddle them but there are hundreds of studies that show that the kids with issues being separated will never make them try to be better and the"good " kids learn that its okay to set someone aside if he or she doesn't fit the mold.

What do you think kids in detention learn... nothing nothing or maybe hey learn that because their are different their are not worth while. Wars are started because someone doesnt like different people and teaching kids that different is bad is not good in the long term.
For a teacher you seem to have zero pedagogical studies or knowledge how learning children work. And when it come to educating adults its andragogy, which sort explain means adults only learn what they like or are interested in. While kids can be encouraged adults dont care. After age 15 until 20 its a mix of the two. you should take some courses and read some articles and studies and you might be surprised of what you learn.

The world is not just black and white, there are many shades of each color. And some of us manage quite well to teach all our kids to evolve and find what they are good at and encourage them to be the best they can. And i am quite sure that they will grow up confident, open minded ad actually knowing how to learn.

My kids have on their school iPad installed the following:
one dictionary, legimus, Intowords, Claroread, Pizmo and itslearning and a browser in case they want to search extra stuff and our school is responsible for installing things on school property. Most of them during class they use an online thesaurus and synonym page and the dictionary. We use different books and we use very little swedish. the kids that have another mother language get a second dictionary beside the swedish english.
I see very well what they do in the 90 minutes classes. The basic stuff always gets done, the kids with issues get extra help with the special pedagogue and some basic homework that they can do if they choose and the medium level kids get help if they need and home work for there level. The good and the little geniuses get more stuff to do, they get to do more advanced work, i have some really nice materials. Everyone in my group has read at least 3 books this semester and written basic texts about them.
My little genius in 5 grade read Shakespeare and is basically at a English 7 rate now, its get lots of grammar home work, every week i give it stuff to do and he brings it in very fast.
The slowest in our class has dyslexia and Asperger and while in english he is not more then a d level to c on good days , this kid does math in its head, the math teacher tell it what he wants it to resolve and nothing ever get written by the kid. I have never seem a 10 year old being able to do any math, i was a bit curios and with the math teacher explained how derivations work since in math he is so advanced and by just explaining a couple of formulas can give you an exact answer to everything. Most teachers treat children according to their needs.
The really bright ones will consistently improve faster hence they get less help more homework.
In the last year everyone has done homework and brought it to be corrected out of their own initiative. Nothings is mandatory Other teachers have noticed improvements in these kids also.

Of course not every teacher bothers this much but there are quite a lot that do.
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Gjeebes
post 28.Apr.2016, 12:36 PM
Post #15
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

"Kids need some discipline but more then that they need to be treated with respect and encouraged and helped if they have some sort of problem."

Of course, I agree. I never meant to imply students should not be encouraged, respected or helped when they need it.

"Kids respond to guiding and encouraging better than just making then feel like little shits, or tell them if they cant focus or they are slower that they wont be able to do anything with their life or that they are worth less."

Again, I agree. None of what I have previously written on this subject was meant to imply that I would tell any child (or adult for that matter) they are worthless little shits. I know kids have problems, some more serious than others. Growing up can be (usually is) quite difficult.

"Your idea system exist in many countries and look what crappy students they send your way."

I teach at a uni in Sweden. The crappy students sent my way are Swedish products.

"...that show that the kids with issues being separated will never make them try to be better and the"good " kids learn that its okay to set someone aside if he or she doesn't fit the mold"

I agree. I have never thought any child should be set aside because of their ability.

"What do you think kids in detention learn?"

Kids in detention learn that their anti-social behaviour, or whatever it was that landed them in detention, will be rewarded with a temporary lack of freedom, a very boring hour or two etc etc (or what is detention in Sweden, 30 seconds?). Why the selectivity? You say the children are treated like adults, so why would you tolerate nonsense in a learning scenario, where most likely the troublemaker is disrupting others who might be interested in learning something.

I ask you, what does a kid learn by misbehaving, and never being corrected for it? What kind of adults do such children turn into?

"For a teacher you seem to have zero pedagogical studies or knowledge how learning children work."

Officially I don't teach children, although that is debatable considering the level of students of adult age I see. University is not high-school. I am there more to show people how some very advanced things work, from many different angles. The rest is up to them. If they aren't "getting it", then they would need to work harder, taking steps themselves. And in Sweden, many don't get it simply because they haven't been prepared very well, they don't have the proper background, and in fact shouldn't even be in the course they are in.

Anyway, uni students here rarely even bother to show up for lectures, and expect all course material to be available on the web. Then they complain when they fail, since there is much information they miss by missing lectures.

"My little genius in 5 grade read Shakespeare "

Sure, anyone can read Shakespeare. Does little genius really comprehend it? Can that question even be answered since it is likely no one has ever bothered to properly evaluate said genius' comprehension of 1600's English language.

"this kid does math in its head"

Wonderful. Let's hope he is continuously challenged and allowed to progress and develop his mind, even if he is beyond the level of other kids.

"The really bright ones will consistently improve faster hence they get less help more homework."

Could be, but I know of a kid who excelled at English, and he received more homework. But the homework was at the same level as the rest of it, and he got bored. He asked for more advanced material, and was denied because he might get too far ahead of his classmates.

I sit on PhD evaluation committees, and monitor progress of individual candidates. I am not alone in seeing those candidates who are essentially not up to the task (to make long stories short). My job is to identify problems, and oh, there are problems. But do you think the system can accommodate any notion of "problems"?? No way. Does ANY protocol exist to act as some sort of correction mechanism? No. The whole system is only geared to the assumption that the student is performing up to spec. And because there is no correction mechanism, nor a will to create one, the push is to get the student through, at any cost. That way the department gets their money and the student gets their degree, earned, or, more often, not earned.

In my mind, this is a failed system, where a student is given an artificial impression that they are on track, as the precious institution directs, when they clearly aren't. How does it help anyone to pretend to them they are expert in some science, when in fact they are incapable? Somehow, in Sweden, someone who has no chemistry background is permitted to do a PhD in chemistry! WTF? And oh is it expensive. And then upon review, it is exposed that the work performed, has no chemistry content it, the student, with straight face, says (in front of her advisor, and the committee) well, I don't have a chemistry background, so I have trouble when I come to the chemistry things.

Absolutely unreal! This would not be possible in any other country, even if students would have the means to foot the bill themselves. This goes quite beyond any kind of rubber stamping I have seen anywhere.

But hey, that's OK. I guess this kind of education inflation has become common practice in Sweden, which offers officially dedicated "emergency" services, for Swedish PhD graduates who feel like the frauds they are, because their lack of ability is no longer contained, but rather starkly exposed, after entering the work force.

unsure.gif
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