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The Local _ International affairs _ Born Black in 'Post Slavery' Society

Posted by: Asbo 21.Mar.2007, 08:43 AM

Just read this article on the BBC website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6453973.stm

I found it a bit annoying in a way. The way young black males in London seem to be using slavery 200 years ago as an excuse? Even The Mayor of Londons' Equality Advisor says this.

They interview 11 people, the 7 from London say this is true. They also interview 3 people from the North (Manchester), one of them from possibly the most notorious council estates in the UK, Moss Side, and they say the dont encounter rascism, Slavery doesnt affect their daily lives. There are no lasting impressions of slavery etc etc.

They say they dont believe the fact that slavery occured should be forgotton and i dont either, but i dont think it should be used as an excuse for kniving somone to death either.

What do you all think?

Posted by: Sir Wobbly Camel 21.Mar.2007, 08:54 AM

shine my shoes.

:twisted:

Posted by: SkyPilot 21.Mar.2007, 09:14 AM

A long time ago, I heard a report that said that it takes 400 years to remove the vestiges of slavery from a society. In other words the social scientists said that it would take 400 years before the former slaves would be totally integrated, accepted, and the former slavery NOT be an issue for the society that once instituted it.

I look at the States and see something like this is entirely possible. After about 150 years emancipation, the Blacks in America are still struggling with their identity.

Posted by: High Priestess Kang - Slut 21.Mar.2007, 03:42 PM

Not to mention those like Obama who have no slave heritage and are looked upon as, "different" or unaware of the suffering.

Posted by: FR 21.Mar.2007, 04:11 PM

QUOTE (SkyPilot)
A long time ago, I heard a report that said that it takes 400 years to remove the vestiges of slavery from a society. In other words the social scientists said that it would take 400 years before the former slaves would be totally integrated, accepted, and the former slavery NOT be an issue for the society that once instituted it.

I look at the States and see something like this is entirely possible. After about 150 years emancipation, the Blacks in America are still struggling with their identity.


How many years did it take to get to desegretion in the post-emancipation society? 400 years is sounding about right.

Posted by: VikingHumpingWitch 21.Mar.2007, 04:12 PM

Dunno about this. I'm not convinced that racism stems from slavery, it seems more likely to have ocurred the other way around.

Posted by: High Priestess Kang - Slut 21.Mar.2007, 04:15 PM

I'm not following you, Humpers.

Posted by: VikingHumpingWitch 21.Mar.2007, 04:25 PM

I just mean that I think racism is down to fear of people who look, act, talk differently and that that is why we had slavery in the first place - the "they're not like us" argument which made it ok to enslave black people when even then it was something you wouldn't do to a fellow Brit. It's not that we have racism because black people were once slaves.

Posted by: Ms. Moda 21.Mar.2007, 05:20 PM

Good point VHW. I think it's like "the chicken or the egg" situation.

Unfortunately, when slavery began blacks were so different culturally and physically that they were seen as "inferior"...not even human by many. This lie spread throughout the western world, which led to racist mentality. The fact that they were used as slaves added to the negative stigma.

Knowing that some people perceive you as inferior and discriminate against you could cause you to have issues or feel ashamed of who you are or self-conscious in your society or in places where this mentality still exists. It takes a lot (years or even an entire lifetime) of positive mental conditioning (from self, family and role models) to free one's self from this "mental prison".

Posted by: B.b 21.Mar.2007, 05:39 PM

people who descriminate upon race or religion are plain ignorant...

Posted by: Guest 21.Mar.2007, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (VikingHumpingWitch)
I just mean that I think racism is down to fear of people who look, act, talk differently


Yeap, what some black guys just have got hidden inside are to be seriously scared. :shock: :shock:

* This is just what I have noticed systematically * :oops: Don't take me too seriously

Posted by: Muttlestar Galactica 21.Mar.2007, 05:56 PM

QUOTE (VikingHumpingWitch)
I just mean that I think racism is down to fear of people who look, act, talk differently and that that is why we had slavery in the first place - the "they're not like us" argument which made it ok to enslave black people when even then it was something you wouldn't do to a fellow Brit. It's not that we have racism because black people were once slaves.


But wasn't serfdom pretty much 'white on white' slavery?

Posted by: Ms. Moda 21.Mar.2007, 06:04 PM

QUOTE (Mutley @ A Happy Hellbound Hound)
But wasn't serfdom pretty much 'white on white' slavery?


Hey Mutley, I was thinking about that too. It was definitely a form of slavery. However, it was "cast/class" discrimination, not about race. If you had money, you were respected and ruled over others...if you didn't then you were poor and powerless. In a way, this still exists today in every country.

Posted by: High Priestess Kang - Slut 21.Mar.2007, 07:10 PM

QUOTE (VikingHumpingWitch)
I just mean that I think racism is down to fear of people who look, act, talk differently and that that is why we had slavery in the first place - the "they're not like us" argument which made it ok to enslave black people when even then it was something you wouldn't do to a fellow Brit. It's not that we have racism because black people were once slaves.


I agree with that entirely.

Posted by: High Priestess Kang - Slut 21.Mar.2007, 07:11 PM

QUOTE (Mutley @ A Happy Hellbound Hound)
But wasn't serfdom pretty much 'white on white' slavery?


Not unlike today's working poor/lower class.

Posted by: mistersignal 21.Mar.2007, 07:34 PM

The most important reason why the rate of Black success is behind that of White success in the United States is not due to the legacy or racism or slavery, but the ghetto culture that a significant portion of the Black community in the United States embraces (i.e. gang culture, disdain of academic success, high illegitimacy rates). When I was in high school, if you were Black and excelled at school, you called "White". This is what happened to me in high school and this still happens today. Yes, racism is still a problem in the United States but the ghetto culture is more destructive. Unfortunately, it’s easy to blame others for your problems when sometimes the solution is in the mirror.

Posted by: High Priestess Kang - Slut 21.Mar.2007, 08:01 PM

I believe the appropriate, albeit highly non-PC, would be, "Uncle Tom."

You are touching on an extremely sensitive subject, but I have a tendency to agree with you, though.

This may seem remotely frivolous or a poor example to raise, however...in the early days of HipHop and Rap, the songs were about rising up, facing challenges and getting out of the ghettos. Now, it seems that HipHop and Rap is mostly about the consumer culture, who is wearing what, drinking what and driving what.

Quite sad to watch a formerly viable social movement deteriorate into songs about bling, pimps and hos.

Posted by: Braderunner Rennuredarb 21.Mar.2007, 08:15 PM

QUOTE (Ms. Moda)
Hey Mutley, I was thinking about that too. It was definitely a form of slavery. However, it was "cast/class" discrimination, not about race. If you had money, you were respected and ruled over others...if you didn't then you were poor and powerless. In a way, this still exists today in every country.
I hate threading this deep...but I must.

Caste/class discrimination occurs all the time - I heard it when one of the admins in the building was talking about her date last night...she remarked that one of the guys was not "living" in the area he said he was...he was only renting a room out of someone else's house. I could only shake my head as I hummed "She ain't nothin' but a gold digger" to myself. Not just women do this though...and its not about that. The problem is that caste/class discrimination is almost accepted as "ok" - and since it is 'accepted'...it is not a flame point. When looking for a flame point - traditional racism is a card that can be used to get that attention. *shrug*

Posted by: Guest 21.Mar.2007, 08:17 PM

QUOTE (mistersignal)
The most important reason why the rate of Black success is behind that of White success in the United States is not due to the legacy or racism or slavery, but the ghetto culture that a significant portion of the Black community in the United States embraces (i.e. gang culture, disdain of academic success, high illegitimacy rates). When I was in high school, if you were Black and excelled at school, you called "White". This is what happened to me in high school and this still happens today. Yes, racism is still a problem in the United States but the ghetto culture is more destructive. Unfortunately, it’s easy to blame others for your problems when sometimes the solution is in the mirror.


Great Post :wink:

Posted by: Roger O. Thornhill 21.Mar.2007, 08:25 PM

QUOTE (SkyPilot)
A long time ago, I heard a report that said that it takes 400 years to remove the vestiges of slavery from a society. In other words the social scientists said that it would take 400 years before the former slaves would be totally integrated, accepted, and the former slavery NOT be an issue for the society that once instituted it.

I look at the States and see something like this is entirely possible. After about 150 years emancipation, the Blacks in America are still struggling with their identity.


Since white slavery is still ongoing, I am due reparations and set aside contracts.



:twisted:

Posted by: mistersignal 21.Mar.2007, 09:21 PM

QUOTE (High Priestess Kang Aka The Spoon)
I believe the appropriate, albeit highly non-PC, would be, "Uncle Tom."

You are touching on an extremely sensitive subject, but I have a tendency to agree with you, though.

This may seem remotely frivolous or a poor example to raise, however...in the early days of HipHop and Rap, the songs were about rising up, facing challenges and getting out of the ghettos. Now, it seems that HipHop and Rap is mostly about the consumer culture, who is wearing what, drinking what and driving what.

Quite sad to watch a formerly viable social movement deteriorate into songs about bling, pimps and hos.


You have made some good points. Racism will always exist because this is not a perfect world but there are opportunities for Blacks to be successful in the United States. Although it is difficult, groups of people can make a conscious effort to modify or eradicate certain aspects of their culture that they deem destructive. For instance from about 1870 to about 1900, Japan made a conscious effort to industrialize while still retaining aspects of their culture that were uniquely Japanese.

Posted by: High Priestess Kang - Slut 21.Mar.2007, 09:25 PM

QUOTE (mistersignal)
You have made some good points. Racism will always exist because this is not a perfect world but there are opportunities for Blacks to be successful in the United States. Although it is difficult, groups of people can make a conscious effort to modify or eradicate certain aspects of their culture that they deem destructive. For instance from about 1870 to about 1900, Japan made a conscious effort to industrialize while still retaining aspects of their culture that were uniquely Japanese.


Absolutely. I believe there are opportunities for anyone willing to make a go at it in this country. Whether or not you're cynical will decide how far your ambition will take you.

Sure...we are all stuck in our own class bubbles here, but there is room for advancement. The rich can just as easily be poor. The poor can be rich.

I do question the validity of the "n" word usage by blacks. While I can appreciate trying to dumb down the impact by working it into every day society, one cannot hold a double standard. I do not walk around referring to other Jews as Kikes, for example.

There is a school of thought that blacks wish not to evolve (note: I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS). I wonder how much pressure comes from within the community; as opposed to external forces.

*shrugs and feels massive white guilt*

Posted by: FR 21.Mar.2007, 09:35 PM

off-topic a little...Does anyone know what happened in Lugnet, Malmö? I've heard some reference to it and similarities with apartheid, but don't know the history. I assume it happened a long, long time ago.

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