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Germany vs Sweden

Thinking about relocation to Germany

dott
post 9.Jun.2013, 11:08 AM
Post #1
Joined: 18.Jun.2011

After 2 years in Sweden i think about relocation to Germany (NRW region). I have been there couple times, so i am trying to list pros and cons of each country.

Germany:
+ No housing queues. Easy to rent in a city
+ Cheaper and better food
+ Cheaper cars
+ Bureaucracy works faster
+ Better and cheaper healthcare. No ridiculous waiting time to see the specialist
+ More sun
- A lot of drunk ppl in the evening, more smokers, drug addicts

Sweden:
+ Swedes speak English
+ Good infrastructure (internet/mobile communication especially)
+ Less non-West immigrants (but it looks that government is solving this issue)
+ Swedish people.
+ Less tax for single person
- Boring

Have i missed anything?
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oddsock
post 9.Jun.2013, 11:10 AM
Post #2
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

I see, so you want the better food that the immigrants bring, you just don't want to meet them.

What rock did you crawl out from under?
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dott
post 9.Jun.2013, 11:32 AM
Post #3
Joined: 18.Jun.2011

Anything constructive?

PS I am myself non west immigrant.
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UmmAneesa
post 9.Jun.2013, 02:16 PM
Post #4
Joined: 18.Aug.2009

Funny you should start this post. I am in the process of moving from East Germany to Sweden. While the town I live in is lovely, the people are not. They are very intolerant of foreigners and won't lift a finger to help out, even if you are struggling to speak their language. Food? I've had much better food in Stockholm than I've had here, with a lot more variety. While perhaps reserved, I have always found Swedish people to be friendlier and more accommodating to strangers. The weather is pretty much comparable. As a matter of fact, at the moment, it's better in Sweden than it is here! The healthcare has been very good in Germany, but the last time I was in Stockholm my daughter needed to see a dentist (she is a Swedish citizen because of her father) and we were able to see one right away. I haven't lived in Sweden yet, but have visited many times, and have always had very agreeable experiences, as opposed to Germany. In any event, your post brings to mind the adage about the grass being greener...and speaking of green grass - haven't come across any of that, but there are certainly plenty of drunks to go around! Good luck with your move!
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Cheeseroller2
post 9.Jun.2013, 03:56 PM
Post #5
Joined: 4.Jul.2009

We are also looking at relocating to NRW.

I suggest that you visit http://www.toytowngermany.com and read some of the posts there about the health system, German attitudes to immigrants and the bureaucracy. It's not all roses.

But you are correct about the availability and cost of rental apartments in Germany, although bear in mind that usually these are provided totally bare - without electricity fittings, kitchen etc. These items you have to pay for and install, and remove if you leave the apartment. In some cases it can be difficult apparently for foreigners to rent.

There also seems to be more opportunity for employment, even if you don't speak the language. Obviously this depends what skills or qualifications you have, but there are Germany companies who are actively recruiting people from Greece and Spain, providing German lessons, just to fill vacancies.

As for drunks, having been there 60 to 70 times over a 20 year period, I have yet to see an obnoxious drunk or a street fight.

One great advantage is it's central location, easy driving distances to Holland, Belgium and France, and the potential for much more affordable winter skiing with an 8 to 10 hour drive from Düsseldorf.

Although the young people do speak fair English these days, I suspect that you will find far fewer English speakers working for Government departments. I am not sure that I would consider this move if I didn't have several friends in the area who could help out with translation and provide local knowledge guidance.

As for restaurants - these either seem to have changed dramatically in Germany the last few years or I was going to the wrong places. The meals were never bad, but just uninteresting and seemed to focus on quantity rather than quality. However, some of the meals I've enjoyed the last few years have been just excellent and very affordable compared restaurants that I have visited in Stockholm.

One minor downside is the shop closing hours. Shops there are mostly closed on Sunday's and in some cities, they close Saturday mid-afternoon. Apart from out of town supermarkets, most shops close at 18.00 during weekdays. For this reason, many who live in Aachen drive into Belgium or Holland to do weekend shopping, where some items are also cheaper.

Regarding your comment about more sun. There's not much difference between the annual sunlight hours of Stockholm compared to Berlin:
http://www.svemet.org/stocompare.htm

However, in Germany the daylight is more evenly distributed - you don't have the so dark winters and so light summers as in Sweden - which personally I have always found difficult to adapt to.
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Abe L
post 9.Jun.2013, 06:15 PM
Post #6
Joined: 20.Jul.2011

Germany
+++ Autobahn

Can't relate to your comment about drunks, smokers and drug addicts as I see more of those in Sweden then I do in Germany. The fact alone you can go out with a few buddies for drinks in Germany without most of them getting totally smashed is a pro. On top of the fact that in Germany they can just come along and don't need to ask their wives for permission. In general everything is more affordable in Germany and there are plenty of legal ways to pay less taxes then you ever would in Sweden especially as a potential expat. Just get the right financial advise.

Otherwise mostly agree with your points.

QUOTE (oddsock @ 9.Jun.2013, 11:10 AM) *
I see, so you want the better food that the immigrants bring, you just don't want to meet them.. What rock did you crawl out from under?

I'm confident he wants a greater variety of authentic foreign kitchens as opposed to seeing 1% of the total population in terms of immigrants enter the country to open a kebab store or barber store.
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chloeff
post 9.Jun.2013, 08:01 PM
Post #7
Joined: 21.Apr.2013

Food better in Germany? :s

I lived there for two years and the food was one of the worst things. All the meat was stringy and tasteless among other things. As for immigrants ... I saw more of them here.
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Max Reaver
post 9.Jun.2013, 08:26 PM
Post #8
Joined: 26.May.2011

It surely depends on where you go in Germany. From what I heard and seen, bureaucracy is thousand times worse in Germany than in Sweden. Typically when you sign a work contract anywhere else, the employers say "sign here". In Germany they first make you read through 20+ pages of something before perhaps giving you the paper to sign.
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chloeff
post 9.Jun.2013, 08:32 PM
Post #9
Joined: 21.Apr.2013

That's because they like to do things properly.
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proud to be
post 10.Jun.2013, 07:00 AM
Post #10
Joined: 5.Jun.2013

QUOTE (chloeff @ 9.Jun.2013, 07:01 PM) *
Food better in Germany? :sI lived there for two years and the food was one of the worst things. All the meat was stringy and tasteless among other things. As for immigrants .. ... (show full quote)

i´m sure that in those 2 years you were missing the köttbullar,best food in the world,for rednex like you!
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The Punisher
post 10.Jun.2013, 08:26 AM
Post #11
Joined: 6.Jun.2013

QUOTE (chloeff @ 9.Jun.2013, 07:01 PM) *
Food better in Germany? :sI lived there for two years and the food was one of the worst things. All the meat was stringy and tasteless among other things. As for immigrants .. ... (show full quote)

This morning i went online on the TL forum,but a strange smell was coming from TL forum,when I´ve looked better,yes it was the shit smell spread by chloeff.
Someone has to hunt down this person!
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tuborgian
post 10.Jun.2013, 11:46 AM
Post #12
Joined: 1.Jul.2011

Having lived in both places, I would say it depends on how long you want to spend there. Germany is fantastic fun and everything is so much varied, walking/pubs/skiing/travelling/ you name you can do it with proper seasons that you can fully enjoy. The food is really good now and so much cheaper than in Sweden. But I feel that it can be very hard for a foreigner to complelely intergrate there. The germans can be so rude and everything just seems so much more hassle. It is much more inefficient there than their reputation. Sweden is definitely much more boring to live in, but the niceness of the people for me more than makes up for it.

In short: Sweden for long-term, germany for short-term.
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tuborgian
post 10.Jun.2013, 11:49 AM
Post #13
Joined: 1.Jul.2011

PS Or you could go to Germany and do what loads of others do: hang out with only expats taking advantage of the great country without having associate with its countrymen. Also Turkish immigrants are huge group there with HUGE tensions resulting from it.
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