The Local is not responsible for content posted by users.
This discussion forum closed permanently on 25th February 2021.
2 Pages V   1 2 >   Reply to this topic

Sweden's (Government) apparent hatred of the EU?

A tale of consistent breaking of laws/obligations

Ryan
post 9.Jul.2020, 02:35 AM
Post #1
Location: Uppsala county
Joined: 9.Jul.2020

So this story starts out in September 2019 after my fianc? and I decide that I will move out here permanently in the wake of Brexit - which I supported in some ways, not others. So on the week of my birthday at the end of September, we make a trip into the Sala Skatteverket office and submit my application, no problems identified by any of the staff or myself. I should receive a PersonNummer within about 6 weeks.

November comes, and Kyle and I are in England visiting my mother, and I get a message from one of Kyle's sisters telling me I have a letter from Skatteverket, I say she can open it and it just says that I've been denied, no actual reasonings to this.

This was annoying, but I expected it at first.

We come back to Sweden in December and move into our new apartment, so get round to re-submitting a new application in January this year.

April comes, and I receive a reply, and to my shock it is again a denial. This time with a little more information. It basically tries to say that I don't have the right to move without Kyle exercising his freedom of movement - which as a UK and EU trained lawyer I know to be false. There's some other bits in there, but nothing 'relevant' per se.

So this case is now with the F?rvaltningsr?tten in Uppsala - I have submitted probably about 200 pages of legal documents and explanations about Sweden's commitments and obligations under the EU law, some Swedish Laws and my explanation as to why I am eligible.

My main gripe here, and what I am seeing a lot around Sweden, especially in Governmental departments, is the reluctancy to adhere to the commitments and laws they are bound by as a Member State of the European Union. I have found myself needing to remind some departments, even companies, that they are in fact committed to certain laws.

I was just wondering out of interest whether anybody else has seen the same as I have? Or whether it's just my legal eye picking up on this?

Interested to hear peoples views on this.
Go to the top of the page
+
Grommet
post 9.Jul.2020, 03:49 AM
Post #2
Joined: 10.May.2020

Sorry to hear of the problems, but honestly, this comes as no surprise to me. I do not know the motives, but Sweden consistently breaks the rules, even its own rules.

And its funny in a way, the Swedes are ultra overly-bureaucratic, they stick to the "rules" like mentally challenged bots, but then you notice these rules don't exist, or the rules have been wrongly "interpreted" (even if inconsistently) and have somehow strangely been substituted for the actual rules. Very odd, very deceptive. Quite the headache to get anything done about it because as you will surely see, there is no oversight. If someone is not doing their job properly, there will be no correction.

It used to be about "insurance". They were rejecting people (EU citizens, with "supposed" rights based on EU law) based on not having a certain kind of insurance. This did not apply to me, but as I recall, the "required" insurance was impossible to obtain, not to mention the fact that such a "requirement" was complete BS as there was no legal requirement as such (as far as I understood, I am not a lawyer). Many people got caught in that one.

I understand Brits want to get out of the UK, but in my opinion, moving to Sweden is taking 3 steps backwards, whereas Brexit is taking only 1. In my opinion, Sweden is just not worth the irritation and hassle.

I can guess no one will read and/or understand the legal documents you have presented.

Take it as a warning flag. I went to Sweden as an academic, and quite happily left after 6 years. I've no intentions of ever setting foot in the place again.

Your problems are only beginning, and moving to Sweden will quite possibly grind you down. It is the Swedish exceptionalism, it grinds.

I would honestly suggest to look elsewhere...you are not going to win, even if you should.

On the other hand, if you are personally wealthy, and have the time, it would be great for an actual lawyer who knows his stuff to take those fuckers to task. Long overdue.
Go to the top of the page
+
skogsbo
post 9.Jul.2020, 06:38 AM
Post #3
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (Ryan @ 9.Jul.2020, 02:35 AM) *
So this story starts out in September 2019 after my fianc? and I decide that I will move out here permanently in the wake of Brexit - which I supported in some ways, not other ... (show full quote)

You know you don't have freedom of movement or a right to reside. You have right to travel for employment, a full time paying job, after 90 days if you can't support yourself then any eu country has the right to say goodbye.
Go to the top of the page
+
cootje1976
post 9.Jul.2020, 09:37 AM
Post #4
Location: Europe
Joined: 3.May.2012

QUOTE (Ryan @ 9.Jul.2020, 01:35 AM) *
So this story starts out in September 2019 after my fianc? and I decide that I will move out here permanently in the wake of Brexit - which I supported in some ways, not other ... (show full quote)



Skog is partially right, but in my experience, and at my job, I have had enough other people from Europe that are moving to Sweden when having a job here fulfilling the conditions that are denied anyway, or it turns into a bureaucratic nightmare, where people do have a job, do get a salary, but have to ask others to get the money deposited because they cannot open an account or do anything at all because they do not have a PN. And for UK citizens at the moment it is also more harrowing than usual, because the majority just get denied it seems, saying that based on the UK employees where I work. Many of them get denied a few times in a row, where last year ?Brexit? was cited, it seems that now just denying UK citizens of the right of free movement in Sweden is the norm.

Ow, and btw, it also depends on the person handling your case, because I have literally seen the issue of talking to several people at the same Skatteverket branch with 3 to 4 different responses to the exact same question! So it literally depends on the mood of the person handling your case in here, it can also have dramatically random results.
But yes after my run in many EU countries and moving all over the place, Sweden seems to not like the free movement principle THAT much, considering the fact that with a PN you can?t do anything here. Even when having a job, or a job offer here, some people are smoked. Not an overall friendly country for fellow Europeans we realised many years ago already, even with a job, or enough funds.
Go to the top of the page
+
TheExpatEagle
post 9.Jul.2020, 07:12 PM
Post #5
Joined: 23.Aug.2016


All countries try not to adhere to EU law which if you are a trained EU lawyer you will know by keeping up to date with the hundreds of court cases people take each year against their country.

The default position is to apply their own rules and it is up to the individual to take things further. This is no different to any company or governmental department in the UK.

Most of the time the companies or departments know they will lose on appeal but they play the odds game that a percentage will not appeal or there will be a technicality.

That aside, as someone else has said there is no freedom to just up sticks and move to Sweden. You have 90 days to find a job and if you don't you are show the way home.
Go to the top of the page
+
Ryan
post 9.Jul.2020, 08:24 PM
Post #6
Location: Uppsala county
Joined: 9.Jul.2020

Go to the top of the page
+
skogsbo
post 9.Jul.2020, 08:42 PM
Post #7
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

Yes you have to be able to support yourself(funds or job), that's cash in the bank, a home or funding for one, long term. Yes there is variation on what is considered sufficient funds. Having a partner who has cash is not sufficient, what if the relationship ends?

Good luck... you can have all the degrees in the world but I suspect the "I know eu law" attitude will only close more doors in MV and SV, than it opens.

If you are dripping with cash, have a home here, just apply for permanent residency first, then go to SV.
Go to the top of the page
+
Mib
post 9.Jul.2020, 11:16 PM
Post #8
Joined: 7.Jul.2006

Thousands of Brits like myself have come to Sweden and had no issue with getting a personal number or opening a bank account. However, there is a significant minority who unfortunately meet a brick wall. Ironically, I received Swedish citizenship within 2 weeks of applying while my Swedish born, educated and employed wife has been waiting 28 months for Swedish citizenship. She went to university and worked in the U.K. for a decade and she has a German passport via her dad as that was the rule at the time.

Good luck with your fight for justice!

Go to the top of the page
+
Gimp
post 9.Jul.2020, 11:31 PM
Post #9
Location: Pakistan
Joined: 27.Jan.2020

Go to the top of the page
+
yonisan
post 10.Jul.2020, 08:07 AM
Post #10
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 14.Apr.2020

Why have your citizenship requests been denied? Do they give any reason at all... For me the process was simple after 6 years of working, paying taxes and generally contributing to Swedish society, I applied for citizenship and three weeks later it arrived - originally from the UK.

Where I work there are colleagues from different European countries and some from outside and all have recieved their right to reside - one had their application rejected but this was their own issue as they did not submit the correct paperwork.

I remember coming here and lurking on the forums when I had just applied for citizenship and it terrified me reading the stories - however no one ever wrote why they had been rejected just that they had been either waiting 36 months OR it had been rejected (no reason)...

One thing is certain (and it counts for so many situations in life) - If you go in heavy handed the likelyhood is that the service you recieve will be significantly reduced.

I have never found that threaterning any authorities whether it be in Sweden, NL, UK or any other country where i have had to deal with them to be condusive to a good outcome.





Go to the top of the page
+
cootje1976
post 10.Jul.2020, 11:40 AM
Post #11
Location: Europe
Joined: 3.May.2012

QUOTE (yonisan @ 10.Jul.2020, 07:07 AM) *
Why have your citizenship requests been denied? Do they give any reason at all... For me the process was simple after 6 years of working, paying taxes and generally contribut ... (show full quote)


I think in this case it is only related to the residence permit, not regarding the citizenship, with is another journey even on it's own. Glad to hear that it just took 2 weeks for you, but when we applied (Dutch/ German, working in Sweden for 7 years, owning property and paying taxes, and pretty much friggin' clean!), after a year we were still stuck, and decided to cancel the citizenship request completely from our side, and just stay with the permanent residence, we are in bloody Europe anyways.

But yeah it depends on who yer talking to, but in our case we have only seen the 'bad' side of Swedish bureaucracy every single time.
Go to the top of the page
+
Gimp
post 10.Jul.2020, 03:08 PM
Post #12
Location: Pakistan
Joined: 27.Jan.2020

Go to the top of the page
+
skogsbo
post 10.Jul.2020, 03:32 PM
Post #13
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

I'm a little unsure if their approach to SV first is optimal. Better to secure residency first, then personal number, wait 5 years and apply for citizenship if they wish.

Go to the top of the page
+
Gamla Hälsingebock
post 10.Jul.2020, 03:35 PM
Post #14
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

" kicked in the head"

Ouch!!!...I may be wrong, but isn't that against EU law??? laugh.gif
Go to the top of the page
+
skogsbo
post 10.Jul.2020, 03:42 PM
Post #15
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (Gamla H?lsingebock @ 10.Jul.2020, 03:35 PM) *
" kicked in the head". Ouch!!!...I may be wrong, but isn't that against EU law??? laugh.gif

I don't know. We need an eu law expert to verify.
Go to the top of the page
+

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: