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The Swedish dream was always too good to be true.

And now the far right is back

Gamla Hälsingebock
post 18.May.2019, 07:59 PM
Post #46
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

This discussion is basically flawed...The "Swede bashers" have no idea what neutrality really is and do not want to recognize the truth...

Their truth is revisionist history and totally fake news written by rabid liberals who worship the society depicted by Eric Blair; who's main character has a job changing past history to fit today's politics...

Again Liberal bullshit!!!
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Saywhatwhat
post 18.May.2019, 08:31 PM
Post #47
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 18.May.2019, 08:59 PM) *
This discussion is basically flawed...The "Swede bashers" have no idea what neutrality really is and do not want to recognize the truth...Their truth is revisionist ... (show full quote)


You obviously didn’t read the link I attached in my previous post. A thorough account filled with facts.

It seems your history includes a lot of sharpie markings...
Attached Image
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cootje1976
post 19.May.2019, 07:22 AM
Post #48
Location: Uppsala county
Joined: 3.May.2012

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 18.May.2019, 07:59 PM) *
This discussion is basically flawed...The "Swede bashers" have no idea what neutrality really is and do not want to recognize the truth...Their truth is revisionist ... (show full quote)


Your definition of neutrality is flawed;

"neutrality
/njuːˈtralɪti/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: neutrality
1.
the state of not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.; impartiality.
"during the war, Switzerland maintained its neutrality"
synonyms: impartiality, lack of bias, lack of prejudice, objectivity, open-mindedness, disinterestedness, even-handedness, fairness, fair-mindedness, detachment More
"the tradition of civil service neutrality"
non-alignment, non-participation, non-involvement, non-intervention, non-interventionism, non-combativeness
"our long-term interests will be served best by maintaining our neutrality in the war"
antonyms: partiality, bias, participation, taking sides
2.
absence of decided views, expression, or strong feeling.
"the clinical neutrality of the description"
3.
the condition of being chemically or electrically neutral.
"the structure has overall electrical neutrality""

And that is just when looking it up.

And is trading with both groups seen as being neutral?
Not so sure: http://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2...o#.XOD1A1OxWNw=

This is not bashing I think, but a valid point that should be open for discussion; it should not be seen as an attack, but merely something to reflect upon.
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skogsbo
post 19.May.2019, 08:03 AM
Post #49
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

Cootje... there are no excuses for Nazis or the racist events of ww2, but the phrase the winners write the history books makes finding out all the detail much harder.

Curiously Germany has just paid out compensation to Chileans who suffered in former Nazis cult camps there after ww2. I'm sure there are or were more lurking in south America. There must have been plenty Nazi supporters dotted around the world to enable their escape there.
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john.boy
post 19.May.2019, 12:08 PM
Post #50
Location: Stockholm county
Joined: 27.Sep.2017

QUOTE (cootje1976 @ 19.May.2019, 07:22 AM) *
And is trading with both groups seen as being neutral?Not so sureThis is not bashing I think, but a valid point that should be open for discussion; it should not be seen as an ... (show full quote)

According to the Hague Convention of 1899, 1907 and the London Declaration of 1909, iron ore, ball bearings, were not listed as contraband. This meant that a nation that has claimed neutrality in a conflict can sell those items to any belligrent country without violating neutrality.

It is incorrect to state that Sweden was neutral during WW2, because there were multiple conflicts taking place around the same time. Sweden declared neutrality with regards the conflict between Germany, France & Britain. However, it did not declare neutrality with regards Finland vs Soviet Union. For that conflict it declared itself non-belligrent, not neutral.

Sweden did on numerous occasions violate neutrality in the conflict between Germany, France & Britain. For example, allowing German troop transports to use the train network, allowing British Airforce to cross it's airspace when performing bombing runs against Germany, the agreement to return British Aircrews to Britain who ditched damaged planes in Sweden after raids on Germany.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 19.May.2019, 01:11 PM
Post #51
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

For the record I never defined neutrality, however I am glad there are those who have provided some examples that indicate what a "slippery slope" Sweden had to navigate to safe guard its country and people...Which I had previously stated...

Had the Axis powers prevailed I am sure there would Germans who would condemn Sweden for aiding the Allies...
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Saywhatwhat
post 19.May.2019, 05:24 PM
Post #52
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 19.May.2019, 02:11 PM) *
For the record I never defined neutrality, however I am glad there are those who have provided some examples that indicate what a "slippery slope" Sweden had to navi ... (show full quote)


Good for you, then you can apply at your own convenience.

If the axis won then Sweden would have fully embraced their nazi side.

Even without a threat, they still helped out nazi Germany, after the war as well.

“Secretary Hull considered threatening to take over Swedish companies in the United States and to deny Sweden critical supplies after the end of the War unless Sweden cut its ties with Germany In a September 13, 1944, telegram to U.S. representatives in Stockholm, Secretary Hull made clear his feeling that the danger to Sweden of a German retaliatory attack had passed:
"We fail to appreciate the validity of the arguments used by the [Swedish] Foreign Minister in defense of Sweden’s so-called ’neutrality policy’. In our opinion Sweden’s policy has been based upon a determination to keep out of the war at all costs rather than one of strict neutrality. Hence, she has granted concessions to one belligerent group and then the other in accordance with fluctuations of the war. Now that the people of Sweden, as well as those of the United Nations, realize the defeat of Germany is a forgone conclusion, we cannot comprehend why the Swedish government still hesitated to sever all trade with Germany.”
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 19.May.2019, 06:34 PM
Post #53
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

"In our opinion Sweden’s policy has been based upon a determination to keep out of the war at all costs rather than one of strict neutrality. Hence, she has granted concessions to one belligerent group and then the other in accordance with fluctuations of the war."
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Saywhatwhat
post 19.May.2019, 07:54 PM
Post #54
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 19.May.2019, 07:34 PM) *
"In our opinion Sweden’s policy has been based upon a determination to keep out of the war at all costs rather than one of strict neutrality. Hence, she has granted con ... (show full quote)


Yep, she bent over for whoever was about to storm their border.

I guess they never learned...
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 19.May.2019, 08:02 PM
Post #55
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

"Sweden's role in WWII was a classic exercise in diplomacy brought about by the need to protect its lands and peoples..."
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Saywhatwhat
post 19.May.2019, 08:15 PM
Post #56
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

Seems like they bend over for whoever they are scared of...

Kind of like today...

Funny what happens when Sweden, as a nation, sticks their head in the sand and borks on about being good guys, not allowing themselves to have an honest dialogue in their country...
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 19.May.2019, 08:46 PM
Post #57
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

"Surrounded for the second time by crazed war mongers it walked a virtual tightrope and survived that madness unscathed, a most brilliant accomplishment considering that the war lunacy gobbled up most of the world..."
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Saywhatwhat
post 19.May.2019, 08:56 PM
Post #58
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

Seems like they bend over for whoever they are scared of...

Kind of like today...

Funny what happens when Sweden, as a nation, sticks their head in the sand and borks on about being good guys, not allowing themselves to have an honest dialogue in their country.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 19.May.2019, 09:19 PM
Post #59
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

"And for this great accomplishment there are those that condemn their efforts and denounce them as acts of cowardice..."
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Saywhatwhat
post 19.May.2019, 09:38 PM
Post #60
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

But how about their actions concerning the war, after the war?

You still don’t get it.

Being honest with oneself is necessary to be honest to others.
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