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TV Licences needed for iPads and computers

Regarding the latest SVT changes ...

mångk
post 7.Mar.2013, 01:49 PM
Post #106
Joined: 27.Jul.2008

WTF???

Most computers built recently (read even many computers over 5 years old) can view the content on the following link:

http://www.svtplay.se/

Many mobile phones today can because they often have flash and the purpose of flash is to view moving pictures and video content!
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Yorkshireman
post 7.Mar.2013, 01:54 PM
Post #107
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 01:42 PM) *
Meaning that computers themselves are not portals for TV.

And the law doesn't say they are either, neither does Radiotjänst biggrin.gif

...if you have a computer you also need a TV Tuner card/capability, or internet connection to be caught by the legislation. The rest is just academic, it is capable of receiving regardless of whether it can be decrypted etc...
The fact that once decrypted it would be moving pictures with or without sound ...constitutes a television program, however packaged.

It reminds Me of the discussion with the Government a few years ago ...it was when public services were 1st making it possible to apply for things online, or complain etc... since the law says once they had to acknowledge and store the information, as it becomes public property. The discussion for many weeks with the lawyers was around ...what was received that should be stored? The data stream was coming via HTTPS, so was encrypted, that was what was originally received by the public authorities biggrin.gif did that constitute the information that must be archived and made available to the public? or... was it indeed the information once it had been decrypted (especially since that made more sense wink.gif ) after reception ...in the end the conclusion was that the decrypted information was the real content not the encrypted data.

Like puting a letter into an envelope rather than just sending the letter without one.
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byke
post 7.Mar.2013, 01:54 PM
Post #108
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

The largest market of portable devices such as tablets in Sweden is Apples iPads and iPhones.
Both require 3rd party apps to be able to see such content and flash is not an extension available for such.

Flash in itself, again is a 3rd party extension which is less often installed on computers.
And is an additional "add on".

The same way that a computer monitor is not a TV.
Both can display moving images, but a monitor can only work with additional factors to display said picture (such as a tuner).
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Bender B Rodriquez
post 7.Mar.2013, 01:58 PM
Post #109
Joined: 25.Mar.2006

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 01:23 PM) *
But to broadcast it, they no longer can use state owned airspace.So it has to be encoded into a proprietary format that also has heavily patented codecs.At this point it is no ... (show full quote)

Here is where you get it completely wrong. The transmission data format is irrelevant to the law. All transmissions, whether it is over the air or the internet, are today coded into data streams. It is the contents that defines it as a TV-program, not the transmission data format.

The keywords that can be questioned are here "broadcast" and "device intended for receiving broadcasts". It can be questioned that transmitting TV-programs over the internet is equal to a broadcast since it requires the user to get the information from SVT servers. It can also be questioned that a computer is "intended" to receive such broadcasts.
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Yorkshireman
post 7.Mar.2013, 01:59 PM
Post #110
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 01:54 PM) *
The same way that a computer monitor is not a TV.. Both can display moving images, but a monitor can only work with additional factors to display said picture (such as a tuner).

Explain where in the law it actually uses the term view?
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byke
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:02 PM
Post #111
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

QUOTE (Bender B Rodriquez @ 7.Mar.2013, 01:58 PM) *
Here is where you get it completely wrong. The transmission data format is irrelevant to the law. All transmissions, whether it is over the air or the internet, are today code ... (show full quote)

But as it stands, the contents are not a tv program until they are reassembled.

QUOTE (Yorkshireman @ 7.Mar.2013, 01:59 PM) *
Explain where in the law it actually uses the term view?

Moving picture.
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Bender B Rodriquez
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:07 PM
Post #112
Joined: 25.Mar.2006

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 03:02 PM) *
But as it stands, the contents are not a tv program until they are reassembled.

And that is irrelevant to the law. It is not the transmission format that matters.; it is if you have the necessary equipment to reassemble such a transmission that matters. So for a monitor you need a digital decoder (tuner) and for a computer one would expect that you need similar capabilities, i.e. a browser, but since there is not yet a precedent it is impossible to say.
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mångk
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:08 PM
Post #113
Joined: 27.Jul.2008

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 02:02 PM) *
But as it stands, the contents are not a tv program until they are reassembled.

The content is a tv program when it is transmitted. If you have a device that is capable of receiving it by electronic means you should pay the fee.

It does not matter if you actually view the content as it is the capacity to receive it that is important.

Have a read of Benders posts. Particularly that with the ECtHR ruling.

Here is a simple question for you. Can you view youtube?
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Yorkshireman
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:10 PM
Post #114
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 02:02 PM) *
But as it stands, the contents are not a tv program until they are reassembled.

biggrin.gif but the package contains a television program, regardless of whether it is assembled or not. Just as a TV-Tuner can be detuned from all channels, it is still capable of receiving.

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 02:02 PM) *
Moving picture.

Yes, but it doesn't say anything about actually watching a moving picture, it says capable of receiving a television program, just because your screen may be broken doesn't mean the device cannot receive the package that contains moving pictures with or without sound. biggrin.gif
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byke
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:13 PM
Post #115
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

QUOTE (Yorkshireman @ 7.Mar.2013, 02:10 PM) *
biggrin.gif but the package contains a television program, regardless of whether it is assembled or not. Just as a TV-Tuner can be detuned from all channels, it is still capable of receiving.

Again, it cant be received as to receive it as a TV program often requires 3rd party apps.
So its the app which is the receiver or tuner.
And the hardware has nothing to do with it.

QUOTE (Yorkshireman @ 7.Mar.2013, 02:10 PM) *
Yes, but it doesn't say anything about actually watching a moving picture, it says capable of receiving a television program, just because your screen may be broken doesn& ... (show full quote)

Again, I cant receive it without a separate 3rd party app.
The hardware has nothing to do with it, as it cant show said moving picture without it.
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mångk
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:15 PM
Post #116
Joined: 27.Jul.2008

Can you watch YouTube?

Very simple question, even for you!
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Bender B Rodriquez
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:16 PM
Post #117
Joined: 25.Mar.2006

QUOTE (Yorkshireman @ 7.Mar.2013, 03:10 PM) *
Yes, but it doesn't say anything about actually watching a moving picture, it says capable of receiving a television program, just because your screen may be broken doesn& ... (show full quote)

Exactly. Today you need to pay license even if your TV is broken. It is there mere possession of the equipment that matters.
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byke
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:17 PM
Post #118
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

QUOTE (Bender B Rodriquez @ 7.Mar.2013, 02:07 PM) *
And that is irrelevant to the law. It is not the transmission format that matters.; it is if you have the necessary equipment to reassemble such a transmission that matters. S ... (show full quote)

I dont think even windows comes installed with a stock browser any more.
I know OSX doesnt come with flash installed or Java? any more.

Again, a monitor requires a decoder to to view TV.
And a computer needs a software decoder which is more often than not no longer supplied during purchase.

Simply making a computer or mobile device as useful as owning a monitor without a decoder.

Thus making such claims that a computer is covered by the law as very dubious.
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Bender B Rodriquez
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:18 PM
Post #119
Joined: 25.Mar.2006

QUOTE (byke @ 7.Mar.2013, 03:13 PM) *
Again, it cant be received as to receive it as a TV program often requires 3rd party apps.So its the app which is the receiver or tuner.And the hardware has nothing to do with ... (show full quote)

Yes, one would expect this, but it is not certain until we have a precedent. Radiotjänst is simply pushing for a precedent by using their interpretation of the law.
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byke
post 7.Mar.2013, 02:22 PM
Post #120
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

Good, we are both agreed.
However radiotjanst havent been granted a clarification or amendment to the law as it stands.
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