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The Local _ Visas _ Migrationsverket deportation rage

Posted by: wallace1837 1.Jul.2017, 06:55 PM

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/regler-som-tillkom-for-skydda-arbetstagare-anvands-nu-for-att-utvisa-dem/

Apparently migrationsverket is on a deportation rage. There was so far three waves
1. Mistake in salary
2. Missing insurance
3. Issues with vacation.

It look like Migrationsverket is fishing for any reason to deport workers. Once a smart a$$ find a new trick, the agency follow with their rage and apply it to any case they find.

I guess the bets are open for the reason of the next deportation wave. Will it be,
Parking ticket?
Complain about the weather?
Evidence of having idea of their own?
Visiting the USA during the last 4 years?
Throwing up after eating Surströmming?
Renting second hand instead of first hand?
Keeping your shoes inside?
Not taking a number to be serve in a empty store?
Talking to your neighbors?
Waiting more than 9 months to get a decision?
Else?

The winner of the bet get a express deportation notice...

Posted by: the_dome 1.Jul.2017, 07:34 PM

Well they are kicking me out for the similar reason smile.gif I am thinking now if I should push my case all the way to the European Court of human rights, I would really enjoy suing Sweden even if I don't win.

Posted by: wallace1837 1.Jul.2017, 10:13 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 1.Jul.2017, 06:34 PM) *
Well they are kicking me out for the similar reason smile.gif I am thinking now if I should push my case all the way to the European Court of human rights, I would really enjoy suing Sweden even if I don't win.

You know when you lose you have to pay for the other party legal fees!

This, to me, is a big incentive to move to a civilized country.

Posted by: the_dome 2.Jul.2017, 09:12 PM

There are no fees other than the lawyer that represents you. It is like when you appeal to the migrationsdomstolen or the next entity.

Posted by: santacroce 3.Jul.2017, 09:34 AM

I don't think I get this issue with holidays? I don't think I fully understand the context from the article. Anyone has more info?

Posted by: Dan 3.Jul.2017, 11:46 AM

Can someone explain this issue in the article?

Is it compulsory to take out semester/holidays from your allowed semester/holidays?
For example, if I am allowed 6 weeks of paid holidays from my company, is it compulsory for me to take out ATLEAST some days out?
I usually take 2-3 weeks(not 6 weeks) of paid holidays from my allowed 6 weeks semester. Can that be a problem in extension?

Posted by: wallace1837 3.Jul.2017, 12:36 PM

QUOTE (Dan @ 3.Jul.2017, 10:46 AM) *
Can someone explain this issue in the article?

Is it compulsory to take out semester/holidays from your allowed semester/holidays?

Legally no, but Migrationsverket will deport you if you don't take them.
QUOTE (Dan @ 3.Jul.2017, 10:46 AM) *
For example, if I am allowed 6 weeks of paid holidays from my company, is it compulsory for me to take out ATLEAST some days out?

No it is not compulsory, but Migrationsverket will deport you if you don't.
QUOTE (Dan @ 3.Jul.2017, 10:46 AM) *
I usually take 2-3 weeks(not 6 weeks) of paid holidays from my allowed 6 weeks semester. Can that be a problem in extension?

You are in big trouble. You will get deportation notice next time you apply for extension. Don't waste your time and start looking for job in the civilized world. It is a pain to relocate/transition while you are waiting for your work permit extension, because you cannot re-enter Sweden while you wait.

Stay out of Sweden and be happy!

Posted by: wallace1837 3.Jul.2017, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (santacroce @ 3.Jul.2017, 08:34 AM) *
I don't think I get this issue with holidays? I don't think I fully understand the context from the article. Anyone has more info?

Well Migrationsvkerket follows the intention of the government to get rid of foreign workers ( https://www.thelocal.se/jobs/article/swedish-pm-seeks-to-cut-inflow-of-foreign-workers ) by using all mean necessary, i.e. finding misplaced coma in the application or issues described above.

Stay out of Sweden and be happy!

Posted by: santacroce 3.Jul.2017, 02:31 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 3.Jul.2017, 11:38 AM) *
Well Migrationsvkerket follows the intention of the government to get rid of foreign workers ( https://www.thelocal.se/jobs/article/swedish-pm-seeks-to-cut-inflow-of-foreign-workers ) by using all mean necessary, i.e. finding misplaced coma in the application or issues described above.

Stay out of Sweden and be happy!


this does not really sound like "a state of rights" ... there should be some legal grounds that lead to such behaviour

Posted by: Bsmith 3.Jul.2017, 02:44 PM

Here are what should be grounds for deportation:

1. Cannot support yourself or your family
2. Committing crimes
3. Joined ISIS
4. Been enrolled in SFI for 5 years and still can't pass the class
5. Raping little girls (deportation and castration)

Posted by: wallace1837 3.Jul.2017, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (santacroce @ 3.Jul.2017, 01:31 PM) *
this does not really sound like "a state of rights" ... there should be some legal grounds that lead to such behaviour

You have no rights, you are a foreigners asking for the privilege to stay in Sweden. They will deny you that privilege whenever they feel like it.

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 3.Jul.2017, 01:44 PM) *
Here are what should be grounds for deportation:

1. Cannot support yourself or your family
2. Committing crimes
3. Joined ISIS
4. Been enrolled in SFI for 5 years and still can't pass the class
5. Raping little girls (deportation and castration)

Not in Sweden! Here its this:
1. Mistake in salary
2. Missing insurance
3. Issues with vacation.
that get you deported.

Sweden supports ISIS and pay them abroad:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/734161/Swedish-government-ISIS-fighter-pay-thousands-terror-jihad-Islam they will not deport them!

Posted by: Gjeebes 3.Jul.2017, 03:42 PM

"Sweden supports ISIS and pay them abroad:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/734161...ror-jihad-Islam they will not deport them!"

But that's a no-brainer. People paying taxes and working as one would expect, are worth nothing on the virtue-signalling points reward system.

You have heard of the "Boy Scouts", where badges are earned for skills and tasks demonstrated? Well, Sweden has the "Virtue-Signalling Scouts" (and Guides, of course), where there is no badge available (or in Sweden's case, "virtue-points") for efforts demonstrating common sense. Instead, even low-level virtue-points require some sort of virtue-signalling event, whereupon only society's dregs are the focus.

Good working folk are taboo. Rapists, fake asylum seekers, bearded children...those are where the big points are.

And, of course, one of the highest worth virtue-signalling points one can obtain is to reset ISIS fighters returning to Sweden. Perhaps Sweden will set up and "adopt-an-ex-ISIS-fighter", which will essentially ensure "platinum status" in Sweden's virtue-signalling points reward system.

And Sweden's platinum virtue-signalling point scorers will also score a one-night date with their choice of randy Swedish batikhäxorna as an added bonus incentive.

Posted by: Svedallas 3.Jul.2017, 03:45 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 3.Jul.2017, 04:03 PM) *
You have no rights, you are a foreigners asking for the privilege to stay in Sweden. They will deny you that privilege whenever they feel like it.


Not in Sweden! Here its this:
1. Mistake in salary
2. Missing insurance
3. Issues with vacation.
that get you deported.

Sweden supports ISIS and pay them abroad:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/734161/Swedish-government-ISIS-fighter-pay-thousands-terror-jihad-Islam they will not deport them!



Foreigners/non EU who are looking for visa for a low skilled job are not likely to get any renewal or visa, hence deportation.
I think - there are more Swedes now returning to Sweden, and not many jobs or housing.

So, I wouldn't call it rage, but I would say it is now much harder to get a visa in Sweden. Rejection is common.

Posted by: Svedallas 3.Jul.2017, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (santacroce @ 3.Jul.2017, 03:31 PM) *
this does not really sound like "a state of rights" ... there should be some legal grounds that lead to such behaviour


It is basic numbers. Sweden took in a lot of refugees, and now they desperately need jobs. I think the stats were 160,000 refugees - and out of that only 500 got jobs. And this does not count the growing unemployment amongst Swedes 21-35.
READ ARTICLE.

Also, due to high unemployment with Swedes. It has reached to the point that is no need to really hire foreign workers, when there are workers already here who do not need any paperwork.

This is also why there are stricter rules when applying for a work permit.
Why hire outside when you can hire local - will be the revolving question.

Whilst I do agree foreign workers are always good on many levels. I do also feel that there needs to be a priority for those already here.

Posted by: wallace1837 3.Jul.2017, 06:31 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 3.Jul.2017, 04:24 PM) *
I do also feel that there needs to be a priority for those already here.

Well, those already here are getting deportation notice as well. If they want their white Sweden back full of Swedes, they just have to vote for SD. Ok then, they want a pure ethnic Sweden for the Swedes...

Stay out of Sweden and be happy!

Posted by: Svedallas 3.Jul.2017, 06:58 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 3.Jul.2017, 07:31 PM) *
Well, those already here are getting deportation notice as well. If they want their white Sweden back full of Swedes, they just have to vote for SD. Ok then, they want a pure ethnic Sweden for the Swedes...

Stay out of Sweden and be happy!


Who are you advising?!
Not everyone is being deported, and not everyone is unhappy... biggrin.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 3.Jul.2017, 07:25 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 3.Jul.2017, 05:58 PM) *
Who are you advising?!
Not everyone is being deported, and not everyone is unhappy... biggrin.gif

It is more a realization that since Swedes want Sweden to be for ethnics Swedes only they are voting for SD in masses http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/anti-immigrant-sweden-democrats-yougov-poll-first-most-popular-refugee-a7649506.html

The consequences of that is governments agencies, like migrationsverket, are implementing the purification. Remember 20-25% of work permit extensions are being denied! https://twitter.com/hashtag/migfakta

Posted by: Svedallas 3.Jul.2017, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 3.Jul.2017, 08:25 PM) *
It is more a realization that since Swedes want Sweden to be for ethnics Swedes only they are voting for SD in masses http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/anti-immigrant-sweden-democrats-yougov-poll-first-most-popular-refugee-a7649506.html

The consequences of that is governments agencies, like migrationsverket, are implementing the purification. Remember 20-25% of work permit extensions are being denied! https://twitter.com/hashtag/migfakta


Well, I would say the refugee crisis and "mass migration" in recent years has a lot to do with the changes, and shifts. The welfare states are in tremendous strain.

But, then again, a lot of the changes in all of Europe are because of the refugee crisis! i.e. Brexit...

Posted by: LLHope 3.Jul.2017, 09:05 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 1.Jul.2017, 06:55 PM) *
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/regler-som-tillkom-for-skydda-arbetstagare-anvands-nu-for-att-utvisa-dem/

More like lack of work rather than hard finding skills (basis for work permits), his employer only employed him at 75% and basic pay.
QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 1.Jul.2017, 06:55 PM) *
Apparently migrationsverket is on a deportation rage. There was so far three waves
1. Mistake in salary
2. Missing insurance
3. Issues with vacation.

1. So the companies in Sweden are really bad at their salary administration even though they claim to need a person they still make it so they lose their work permits! And the employee didn't notice they were paid incorrectly??? Maybe it is time for non-EU skilled workers to protest against Swedish employers by not accepting job offers until their admin routines are solid wink.gif

2. Missing insurance, not only have they ignored the requirements of the work permit for their employee, can cost the tax payers a huge amount of money in covering costs the insurance is there to cover!

3. Vacations, tough one for Migrationsverket (I suspect they are going for a test case) , maybe the employer does not allow the employee to take vacations under threat of having their work permit withdrawn? How to tell this isn't a new way for dodgy employers to save money and exploit workers? Just as the one where it is well known that certain employers sell work permits and cover the cost by having the employee pay back in cash the fee from their salary ...tricky to reject that permit since it meets the requirements (unless it misses the insurance costs).

QUOTE (the_dome @ 1.Jul.2017, 07:34 PM) *
Well they are kicking me out for the similar reason smile.gif I am thinking now if I should push my case all the way to the European Court of human rights, I would really enjoy suing Sweden even if I don't win.

What Human Right has been violated?
You do understand that the European Court of Human Rights has no authority to overturn National decisions or law?
And before they will entertain any claim you must first have gone through all legal processes in Sweden, i.e. even up to the High Court.

Posted by: the_dome 3.Jul.2017, 10:33 PM

Rly? I did not know that. You seem like a smart fella!

Posted by: delta76 3.Jul.2017, 10:36 PM

LLHope is probably the most knowledgeable person here on Thelocal. I trust his/her posts more than anyone else.

Posted by: the_dome 4.Jul.2017, 05:47 AM

Good for you! I trust myself more and my lawyer

Posted by: Martian 4.Jul.2017, 10:09 AM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 4.Jul.2017, 06:47 AM) *
Good for you! I trust myself more and my lawyer


biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Jul.2017, 07:39 AM

One more case, this time with children involved:
https://www.svd.se/han-hotas-med-utvisning--for-att-han-tog-for-lite-semester

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Jul.2017, 07:41 AM

More info here:
https://www.svd.se/over-100-teknikanstallda-har-kastats-ut-ur-sverige-sen-2016

Posted by: the_dome 18.Jul.2017, 08:40 AM

But this does not change ghe fact that rogue employers are left untouched. So much about advanced and democratic society of country that has among the highest rated HDI.

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Jul.2017, 01:12 PM

Another article about deportation. I am still fascinated that people who are mistreated by Sweden and offered position elsewhere refuse to leave this dysfunctional society. Stockholm syndrome must be real.

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/usman-kan-utvisas-tog-inte-ut-alla-semesterdagar/

Usman Asif: seek treatment for your Stockholm syndrome and take the a job in civilized country.

Posted by: wallace1837 19.Jul.2017, 04:07 PM

Study nanotechnology at KTH, then 6 years at McDonalds, then deportation:
http://www.hotellrevyn.se/de-kan-tvingas-lamna-sverige-efter-sex-ars-jobb-pa-mcdonalds/

Why do stay at McDonald's for 6 years when you are in nanotech?

Posted by: iamaho 19.Jul.2017, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 19.Jul.2017, 04:07 PM) *
Study nanotechnology at KTH, then 6 years at McDonalds, then deportation:
http://www.hotellrevyn.se/de-kan-tvingas-lamna-sverige-efter-sex-ars-jobb-pa-mcdonalds/

Why do stay at McDonald's for 6 years when you are in nanotech?


Backdoor immigration as its best!

Come for the free education, work at McDonalds for the permanent residency and citizenship!

Posted by: the_dome 19.Jul.2017, 04:49 PM

So? If he worked and paid taxes for 6 years, permanent uppehållstillstånd is his right. Coming to Sweden as asylum seeker without passport is not backdoor immigration? Coming to Sweden as EU citizen, working 12 months and being on social welfare and getting citizenship is not backdoor immigration? Getting married and then divorcing after permanent uppehållstillstånd is not backdoor immigration?

Posted by: iamaho 19.Jul.2017, 05:01 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Jul.2017, 04:49 PM) *
So? If he worked and paid taxes for 6 years, permanent uppehållstillstånd is his right. Coming to Sweden as asylum seeker without passport is not backdoor immigration? Coming to Sweden as EU citizen, working 12 months and being on social welfare and getting citizenship is not backdoor immigration? Getting married and then divorcing after permanent uppehållstillstånd is not backdoor immigration?


Coming to Sweden as asylum seeker without passport is not backdoor immigration?
That is called asylum shopping. Not backdoor immigration as the asylum seeker has passed through various countries in which he/she could have claimed asylum. Choosing to travel past those countries and come to Sweden is called "asylum shopping".
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/ingen-mansklig-rattighet-valja-asylland
They came here because they want the better benefits. It is well documented.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40479224

Coming to Sweden as EU citizen, working 12 months and being on social welfare and getting citizenship is not backdoor immigration?
As a EU citizen, they have the freedom of movement. That is not backdoor immigration.

Getting married and then divorcing after permanent uppehållstillstånd is not backdoor immigration?
Yes, that is backdoor immigration. But unless part of a mail-order bride situation, this is much harder to achieve than to come here for the free education and then working at McDonalds to claim Permanent residency.

Take away the ability to have any type of residency after graduating from the universities, and we'll see how many actually apply to study in Sweden. Or take away the ability to have permanent residency after working for 4 years, and we'll see how many will actually come to Sweden for work.

Posted by: LLHope 19.Jul.2017, 05:10 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Jul.2017, 04:49 PM) *
So? If he worked and paid taxes for 6 years, permanent uppehållstillstånd is his right.

There is no such right in the constitution, nor in conventions of human rights, nor any such law in Swedish domestic law. So what right are you talking about?

Posted by: the_dome 19.Jul.2017, 05:26 PM

You two are just two morons even though I suspect that it is the same person smile.gif I don't want to spend my precious time discussing with imbeciles about what is right and what is wrong so I will just ignore you instead. There are more productive ways to spend my time.

Posted by: Bsmith 19.Jul.2017, 06:14 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Jul.2017, 05:26 PM) *
You two are just two morons even though I suspect that it is the same person smile.gif I don't want to spend my precious time discussing with imbeciles about what is right and what is wrong so I will just ignore you instead. There are more productive ways to spend my time.


Right to the name calling immediately when someone doesn't agree with you. Classy.

Posted by: the_dome 19.Jul.2017, 06:56 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 19.Jul.2017, 07:14 PM) *
Right to the name calling immediately when someone doesn't agree with you. Classy.


Because I'm tired of these racists that think that they know everything about everything.

Posted by: LLHope 19.Jul.2017, 06:56 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Jul.2017, 05:26 PM) *
You two are just two morons even though I suspect that it is the same person smile.gif I don't want to spend my precious time discussing with imbeciles about what is right and what is wrong so I will just ignore you instead. There are more productive ways to spend my time.

...because you now know you are wrong on all counts wink.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 19.Jul.2017, 07:41 PM

Moronic, racists!!!

How Liberal...

Posted by: axiom 20.Jul.2017, 08:04 AM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Jul.2017, 04:49 PM) *
So? If he worked and paid taxes for 6 years, permanent uppehållstillstånd is his right. Coming to Sweden as asylum seeker without passport is not backdoor immigration? Coming to Sweden as EU citizen, working 12 months and being on social welfare and getting citizenship is not backdoor immigration? Getting married and then divorcing after permanent uppehållstillstånd is not backdoor immigration?


No, only Swedish citizens have an unconditional right to live in Sweden. Everything else is a conditional and at the discretion of the Minister of Justice exercised through Migrationsverket.

Posted by: axiom 20.Jul.2017, 08:06 AM

Over the few years on this forum I've learned one thing; agree with everyone regardless of how wrong they are or the personal attacks and name calling are a few posts away.

Posted by: delta76 20.Jul.2017, 08:25 AM

QUOTE (axiom @ 20.Jul.2017, 08:06 AM) *
Over the few years on this forum I've learned one thing; agree with everyone regardless of how wrong they are or the personal attacks and name calling are a few posts away.

the better way is to ignore such people and get away from their posts

Posted by: axiom 20.Jul.2017, 09:16 AM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Jul.2017, 03:49 PM) *
So? If he worked and paid taxes for 6 years, permanent uppehållstillstånd is his right. Coming to Sweden as asylum seeker without passport is not backdoor immigration? Coming to Sweden as EU citizen, working 12 months and being on social welfare and getting citizenship is not backdoor immigration? Getting married and then divorcing after permanent uppehållstillstånd is not backdoor immigration?


I think the more worrying this is how the feck can someone get a work permit to essentially serve burgers in McDonalds?! That's insane! That's not what the work permit scheme was designed to solve. If you are nanotech expert working flipping burgers then clearly your skills are not something Sweden currently needs which means we have to pay the cost to retrain you later or settle with you dong a job teenagers can do for many years to come.

Posted by: Svedallas 20.Jul.2017, 10:03 AM

QUOTE (axiom @ 20.Jul.2017, 10:16 AM) *
I think the more worrying this is how the feck can someone get a work permit to essentially serve burgers in McDonalds?! That's insane! That's not what the work permit scheme was designed to solve. If you are nanotech expert working flipping burgers then clearly your skills are not something Sweden currently needs which means we have to pay the cost to retrain you later or settle with you dong a job teenagers can do for many years to come.


Could not agree more. Very good point.
What about the pizza baker that was being deported? Pizza baker?! How on earth did he get a visa in the first place?! Did he have a PhD in ovens?

Some of these foreign workers got a lucky shot, so it is a good thing that Sweden is sharpening up, and realizing that there is no good to give visas to low skilled workers. The youth need these jobs, to start - for training, experience.
Also, many of these low skilled jobs, need to go to the 160,000 refugees. They cannot survive on the social welfare system. Another reason for the high number of rejections and deportations.

It is about time that they got strict with the work permits. Sweden needs to have high skilled workers. It is very wrong that they deport the skilled, IT workers - but they should rightfully cancel low skilled visas!!

Posted by: wallace1837 20.Jul.2017, 12:11 PM

More about the deportation rage of Migrationsverket:
https://www.svd.se/ingenjor-utvisas--for-att-han-arbetat-i-projekt-utomlands

Posted by: Svedallas 20.Jul.2017, 01:32 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 20.Jul.2017, 01:11 PM) *
More about the deportation rage of Migrationsverket:
https://www.svd.se/ingenjor-utvisas--for-att-han-arbetat-i-projekt-utomlands



Telia slashes 600 jobs
Eriksson slashed over 5000 jobs (2015)

Sad to say, but his job will be quickly replaced.

Posted by: wallace1837 20.Jul.2017, 02:52 PM

Migrationsverket lose this deportation case:
https://www.thelocal.se/20170720/the-nightmare-is-over-wifes-joy-after-swedish-court-overturns-husbands-deportation-order

It is fascinating to see the speed of the court decision. Especially when we compare it to Migrationsverket (10-15 months) for normal cases.

Posted by: Bsmith 20.Jul.2017, 02:54 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Jul.2017, 06:56 PM) *
Because I'm tired of these racists that think that they know everything about everything.


None of us know everything but we are all entitled to our opinions.


QUOTE (axiom @ 20.Jul.2017, 09:16 AM) *
I think the more worrying this is how the feck can someone get a work permit to essentially serve burgers in McDonalds?! That's insane! That's not what the work permit scheme was designed to solve. If you are nanotech expert working flipping burgers then clearly your skills are not something Sweden currently needs which means we have to pay the cost to retrain you later or settle with you dong a job teenagers can do for many years to come.


Exactly. I looked in to immigrating to Canada. I either had to be a student of a Canadian college, have a skill that was in demand or be willing to invest a rather large sum of money in a Canadian business. Does Sweden need burger flippers? And what about the kid who should have that job in order to learn work skills...where is he or she going to get a job?

Posted by: Svedallas 20.Jul.2017, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 20.Jul.2017, 03:54 PM) *
None of us know everything but we are all entitled to our opinions.




Exactly. I looked in to immigrating to Canada. I either had to be a student of a Canadian college, have a skill that was in demand or be willing to invest a rather large sum of money in a Canadian business. Does Sweden need burger flippers? And what about the kid who should have that job in order to learn work skills...where is he or she going to get a job?


Indeed!!

Many of these deportations are clearly justified. Sweden does not need low skills jobs. Simple as that!

The low skilled jobs should go to those who need the work (or language) experience, and who are already natives or residents. (high school students, love refugees or legitimate refugees). Why get a foreign worker for the job? Unless it is a truly unique skill then they should not be eligible for a permit.

Same with many of the IT workers. Their skills are not so unique.
They is plenty of talent already in Sweden.

Only because one can do the job, does not mean they have a right to get the job.
There needs to be a competitive workforce, and that starts with being selective.

Posted by: the_dome 20.Jul.2017, 06:31 PM

Yes, all of them should ybe deported because someone on past gave them work permit. Actually everyone should be deported in Sweden including IT experts because Sweden has enough of them...what a bunch of nonsense can one read on this forum...ask Germans to deport all of their's immigrants because jobs can be filled with native Germans - in country where unemployment rate is 4%! Or in Sweden where it is around 7%! And now this expert above is telling us that deportations are justified because all of those positions are not that hard to backfill with local workforce laugh.gif

Well MR expert if you can learn my work skills in 4 years then I will eat a dog crap let's make that deal?

Posted by: LLHope 20.Jul.2017, 10:58 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 20.Jul.2017, 06:31 PM) *
...ask Germans to deport all of their's immigrants because jobs can be filled with native Germans - in country where unemployment rate is 4%!

Germany has a rule where the local equivalent has a big say in work permit approvals, to the extent that first they check if there actually is someone local who is unemployed and can do the job the work permit is being requested for. Only if they do not find someone do they then allow it to go forward for processing ...BIG difference than here! There is much talk that the rules should be changed so that the stock of unemployed should be checked before work permits are granted for non-EU ...and remember in the past there was a requirement that the employer had to show they had arranged accommodation for the work permit applicant before it could be approved. Now the same employers that got that law changed whine about lack of accommodation for workers biggrin.gif and also want the law changing because they are so bad at administration they cannot even meet the current requirements of simple things like insurance and paying staff what was agreed to be paid! One should wonder if they should be allowed to run a business at-all rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Svedallas 20.Jul.2017, 11:17 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 20.Jul.2017, 11:58 PM) *
Germany has a rule where the local equivalent has a big say in work permit approvals, to the extent that first they check if there actually is someone local who is unemployed and can do the job the work permit is being requested for. Only if they do not find someone do they then allow it to go forward for processing ...BIG difference than here! There is much talk that the rules should be changed so that the stock of unemployed should be checked before work permits are granted for non-EU ...and remember in the past there was a requirement that the employer had to show they had arranged accommodation for the work permit applicant before it could be approved. Now the same employers that got that law changed whine about lack of accommodation for workers biggrin.gif and also want the law changing because they are so bad at administration they cannot even meet the current requirements of simple things like insurance and paying staff what was agreed to be paid! One should wonder if they should be allowed to run a business at-all rolleyes.gif


"the rules should be changed so that the stock of unemployed should be checked before work permits are granted for non-EU"

EXACTLY!

Posted by: axiom 21.Jul.2017, 12:27 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 20.Jul.2017, 01:32 PM) *
Telia slashes 600 jobs
Eriksson slashed over 5000 jobs (2015)

Sad to say, but his job will be quickly replaced.


Ericsson will almost certainly be slashing again.

Posted by: delta76 21.Jul.2017, 08:39 AM

Most of the rejection was from shady cases: people with unskilled jobs (which can easily be filled anywhere), have had time with salary under 13000kr/month, etc. However the media want click-bait titles so they only focus on those parts.

The guy who was rejected because he did not take enough vacation, actually had one year with lower salary than required (13000kr/month), so it's not so surprise. However nobody will read a news like "Work permit rejected by rules", but "Work permit reject because of not taking enough vacation" will lure more people to click.

Posted by: kumam 21.Jul.2017, 03:02 PM

QUOTE (delta76 @ 21.Jul.2017, 09:39 AM) *
Most of the rejection was from shady cases: people with unskilled jobs (which can easily be filled anywhere), have had time with salary under 13000kr/month, etc. However the media want click-bait titles so they only focus on those parts.

The guy who was rejected because he did not take enough vacation, actually had one year with lower salary than required (13000kr/month), so it's not so surprise. However nobody will read a news like "Work permit rejected by rules", but "Work permit reject because of not taking enough vacation" will lure more people to click.


Hi Delta76,

which case are you referring to where salary was less than maintenance requirement but newspaper reported the rejection reason as less vacation (there were two cases reported by newspapers in recent days). do you have access to the actual text from decision letter?

Posted by: delta76 21.Jul.2017, 04:27 PM

QUOTE (kumam @ 21.Jul.2017, 02:02 PM) *
Hi Delta76,

which case are you referring to where salary was less than maintenance requirement but newspaper reported the rejection reason as less vacation (there were two cases reported by newspapers in recent days). do you have access to the actual text from decision letter?


http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/sameer-utvisas-for-att-han-inte-tog-ut-semester/
The link at the beginning of this thread, if you scroll down

"He says that after nearly a year of the first car company received a letter from the Immigration Service. It said that he earned too little money, and that he must have another job.

Sameer Suhbat switched to the car dealership where he works now, and where he also serves on the magic limit for obtaining work permits, 13,000 per month. He will also take leave, he informs about."

Posted by: wallace1837 30.Jul.2017, 09:31 AM

Does anyone know the details of the imaginary law that Migrationsverket is using to deport foreign workers? E.g. If I have 35 days of vacation per year how many can I push to the next year without being deported? What if I have 32, etc.

Also, what is legally wrong with this case apart from the imaginary vacation law https://www.svd.se/han-hotas-med-utvisning--for-att-han-tog-for-lite-semester ?

Posted by: LLHope 30.Jul.2017, 03:10 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 30.Jul.2017, 09:31 AM) *
Does anyone know the details of the imaginary law that Migrationsverket is using to deport foreign workers? E.g. If I have 35 days of vacation per year how many can I push to the next year without being deported? What if I have 32, etc.

You simply have not understood the case, but rather in your hate for Migrationsverket fixate upon the simple leftie headline about not taking vacations! rolleyes.gif

If you had bothered to go past the headline you would find that the main argument for the defence in the appeal is that they claim the person is being "punished" twice with the same evidence. note, they do NOT claim that the initial reasoning is actually incorrect, but that it is double-punishment. The claim is that Migrationsverket started the withdrawal process of the original work permit, so the fact that during the time the person held the work permit they were not paid/take their work related benefits (e.g. paid vacation, this also means they were not paid even after leaving), since that work permit was in withdrawal process, and a new work permit issued, then the previous default in following the terms and conditions should not be applied to the rejection of the application for the current extension.

The argument against is interesting, but the simplification of the headline does not do it justice, it is just a leftie attention grabber. biggrin.gif

Yes, not taking and not being paid the cash for "paid vacations" means that the employer is indirectly gaining by employing the person on the work permit rather than someone resident in Sweden. The principle for work permits is that the employers should not financially gain in that respect, it is similar to wage dumping.

but hey, continue with your hate for Migrationsverket rather than wonder why employers couldn't give a toss about their employees ...if they were really World Class and Valued employees, wouldn't YOU do everything to make sure they were treated correctly, and that everything required to ensure their continued work permits are met? Or? wink.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 30.Jul.2017, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 30.Jul.2017, 02:10 PM) *
You simply have not understood the case, but rather in your hate for Migrationsverket fixate upon the simple leftie headline about not taking vacations! rolleyes.gif

If you had bothered to go past the headline you would find that the main argument for the defence in the appeal is that they claim the person is being "punished" twice with the same evidence. note, they do NOT claim that the initial reasoning is actually incorrect, but that it is double-punishment. The claim is that Migrationsverket started the withdrawal process of the original work permit, so the fact that during the time the person held the work permit they were not paid/take their work related benefits (e.g. paid vacation, this also means they were not paid even after leaving), since that work permit was in withdrawal process, and a new work permit issued, then the previous default in following the terms and conditions should not be applied to the rejection of the application for the current extension.

The argument against is interesting, but the simplification of the headline does not do it justice, it is just a leftie attention grabber. biggrin.gif

Yes, not taking and not being paid the cash for "paid vacations" means that the employer is indirectly gaining by employing the person on the work permit rather than someone resident in Sweden. The principle for work permits is that the employers should not financially gain in that respect, it is similar to wage dumping.

but hey, continue with your hate for Migrationsverket rather than wonder why employers couldn't give a toss about their employees ...if they were really World Class and Valued employees, wouldn't YOU do everything to make sure they were treated correctly, and that everything required to ensure their continued work permits are met? Or? wink.gif

My question is simple. What is the threshold of vacation you can postpone to not get deported.

And yes, conditions in Sweden are deplorable. When you find out you are stuck in this shit hole you cannot commute back and forth to find a job in a civilized country, yes it takes more than one interview to find a job... https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=https://www.svd.se/utdragna-handlaggningstider--ett-fangelse-for-allt-fler&prev=search . You get 1 1/2 years of sequestration before you regain freedom or deportation order.

And some more https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=https://www.svd.se/blott-sverige-svenska-kompetensutvisningar-har&prev=search

Posted by: iamaho 30.Jul.2017, 03:52 PM

No one forced anyone to come here to work.

The better question is, would these people come here to work, if there wasn't a "reward" of PUT at the end of 4 years and Swedish citizenship soon after?

Take away the option of PUT after 4 years, and the deny any possibility of citizenship - where all permits are only TUT and work permit holders can never obtain PUT/Citizenship, we will see a lot less people from 3rd world countries clamouring to come to Sweden to work.

And those who still choose to come, will actually come here to work, and for work only... not hoping for anything more, like everyone on this forum. We will have more realistic workers instead, because they know that they are here only for a short period of time and will return home at the end of their contract. If they don't like Sweden, that's not a problem, because they are not staying here permanently anyways! Earn the kronor and leave!

Posted by: Svedallas 30.Jul.2017, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 30.Jul.2017, 04:10 PM) *
You simply have not understood the case, but rather in your hate for Migrationsverket fixate upon the simple leftie headline about not taking vacations! rolleyes.gif

If you had bothered to go past the headline you would find that the main argument for the defence in the appeal is that they claim the person is being "punished" twice with the same evidence. note, they do NOT claim that the initial reasoning is actually incorrect, but that it is double-punishment. The claim is that Migrationsverket started the withdrawal process of the original work permit, so the fact that during the time the person held the work permit they were not paid/take their work related benefits (e.g. paid vacation, this also means they were not paid even after leaving), since that work permit was in withdrawal process, and a new work permit issued, then the previous default in following the terms and conditions should not be applied to the rejection of the application for the current extension.

The argument against is interesting, but the simplification of the headline does not do it justice, it is just a leftie attention grabber. biggrin.gif

Yes, not taking and not being paid the cash for "paid vacations" means that the employer is indirectly gaining by employing the person on the work permit rather than someone resident in Sweden. The principle for work permits is that the employers should not financially gain in that respect, it is similar to wage dumping.

but hey, continue with your hate for Migrationsverket rather than wonder why employers couldn't give a toss about their employees ...if they were really World Class and Valued employees, wouldn't YOU do everything to make sure they were treated correctly, and that everything required to ensure their continued work permits are met? Or? wink.gif


"but hey, continue with your hate for Migrationsverket rather than wonder why employers couldn't give a toss about their employees ...if they were really World Class and Valued employees, wouldn't YOU do everything to make sure they were treated correctly, and that everything required to ensure their continued work permits are met? Or?"
INDEED! +1


Work permit employees, are second class employees, and that will never change.
The permit was issued, not because of "talent" but it is highly likely that no-one wanted the job, or the job itself had a high turnover, therefore, they had to take what was available, rather than go through the recruitment processes. Notice how many people actually do their own visa applications.

A Company who wants to recruit a foreigner who has "talent" who deserves the work permit, will hire a lawyer, and will get the paperwork done FOR the employee, with no errors. A foreigner who has to do their own paperwork, is just not taken as seriously.
Real jobs get real support from all sides.

Priorities are now changing, and companies are seeing the work permit as a hassle due to the immigration hassle.

Posted by: wallace1837 30.Jul.2017, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (iamaho @ 30.Jul.2017, 02:52 PM) *
No one forced anyone to come here to work.

No, but authorities and employers are lying about what they offer in return for work and the working condition. Even if no one if forced to come here to work (that was never my point anyway), the fallacy is still there and well supported.

For example Forskarassistent and Universitetslektor who are offered position here have no clue that they wont be able to travel for the last two years of their four year contract (or what ever "until further notice") period. This is detrimental to the competitiveness of the candidate who is fooled to come here. He is in dis advantage compare to its Swedish colleague and to its international competitor because they can all travel to conference and go to their field sites, etc.
https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=https://www.svd.se/utdragna-handlaggningstider--ett-fangelse-for-allt-fler&prev=search

His salary will also be lower than its inbred colleague https://www.thelocal.se/jobs/article/foreign-graduates-earn-less-than-swedes-study
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/opinion/swedish-academia-is-no-meritocracy

Posted by: Svedallas 30.Jul.2017, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 30.Jul.2017, 08:51 PM) *
No, but authorities and employers are lying about what they offer in return for work and the working condition. Even if no one if forced to come here to work (that was never my point anyway), the fallacy is still there and well supported.

For example Forskarassistent and Universitetslektor who are offered position here have no clue that they wont be able to travel for the last two years of their four year contract (or what ever "until further notice") period. This is detrimental to the competitiveness of the candidate who is fooled to come here. He is in dis advantage compare to its Swedish colleague and to its international competitor because they can all travel to conference and go to their field sites, etc.
https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=https://www.svd.se/utdragna-handlaggningstider--ett-fangelse-for-allt-fler&prev=search

His salary will also be lower than its inbred colleague https://www.thelocal.se/jobs/article/foreign-graduates-earn-less-than-swedes-study
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/opinion/swedish-academia-is-no-meritocracy


No, some people are soo desperate for the work permit, they are willing to lower their own standards, and offering a lower salary, take less vacation, and reduced benefits, just to get the work permit.

No one forced them!
From what it sounds, most are just soo desperate. In the end, it is all on paper, and MV then has every reason to reject, as it is not following the law!
Everyone is found out eventually.

Posted by: wallace1837 30.Jul.2017, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 30.Jul.2017, 07:43 PM) *
A Company who wants to recruit a foreigner who has "talent" who deserves the work permit, will hire a lawyer, and will get the paperwork done FOR the employee, with no errors. A foreigner who has to do their own paperwork, is just not taken as seriously.
Real jobs get real support from all sides.

And this is a proof of what you are saying: http://www.gp.se/nyheter/ekonomi/15-riskerar-utvisning-trots-toppjobb-p%C3%A5-spotify-1.4165050

Please note that it is not error in the application that lead to the deportation, but rogue employer who treat their foreign employees badly. Sweden is really good at punishing the victim of those rogue employers by deporting them (and leaving the rogue employer untouched).

Posted by: Svedallas 30.Jul.2017, 08:47 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 30.Jul.2017, 09:43 PM) *
And this is a proof of what you are saying: http://www.gp.se/nyheter/ekonomi/15-riskerar-utvisning-trots-toppjobb-p%C3%A5-spotify-1.4165050

Please note that it is not error in the application that lead to the deportation, but rogue employer who treat their foreign employees badly. Sweden is really good at punishing the victim of those rogue employers by deporting them (and leaving the rogue employer untouched).


Get over it.

Posted by: wallace1837 30.Jul.2017, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 30.Jul.2017, 08:47 PM) *
Get over it.

I will get over bias and stick to facts...

Posted by: Gjeebes 31.Jul.2017, 07:22 AM

"There is much talk that the rules should be changed so that the stock of unemployed should be checked before work permits are granted for non-EU".

Simply WOW! This explains why so many of Sweden's children can possible remain living in mommy's basement on welfare, for their entire lives! Simply amazing that this is not yet currently a "routine" practice! Sweden is yet more backwards than I had ever imagined.

"The better question is, would these people come here to work, if there wasn't a "reward" of PUT at the end of 4 years and Swedish citizenship soon after?"

Jaded perhaps? I am in a position to have Swedish citizenship...do I want it? HELL NO! Why would I degrade myself in that way?

Very narrow minded! If people don't have a chance to make their careers here, why would they come here at all? Yes, there are actually some professions where there is a career "track", and Sweden is pretty dodgy when it comes to letting someone (foreign) who has worked (perhaps even) harder than their "peers" proceed along a natural course of career progression. And this is especially acute in the (very) inbred Swedish "academia".

I guess if one is really coming from the 3rd world, then maybe your argument applies. But some of us actually come from prominent Western countries that make Sweden seem like an amateur dog and pony show. We work, we pay due taxes and live our lives.

Normally, this is enough in a Western country, but what (foreign) people don't realise (due to the highly fraudulent glossy/exaggerated Swedish rainbows and unicorns PR) is that the notions/concepts of "fair" and "equal", while looking good on Swedish made paper, have no actual meaning in Swedish society/reality (while other places, that aren't always prattling on about how "progressive" blah blah they are, are actually light-years ahead of Sweden on so very many fronts).

Disorganised and isolated Sweden doesn't seem to know what it wants, and in the meantime, many people who thought it was clear what they were coming to, get nailed by Sweden's inability to make a plan and stick with it (goes for refugees and non-refugees alike).

Posted by: Svedallas 31.Jul.2017, 08:30 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 30.Jul.2017, 09:57 PM) *
I will get over bias and stick to facts...


No one cares! laugh.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 31.Jul.2017, 09:12 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 31.Jul.2017, 08:30 AM) *
No one cares! laugh.gif

Welcome to Sweden http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/197340.jpg Land of denial.

Posted by: Gjeebes 31.Jul.2017, 12:39 PM

"Welcome to Sweden http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/197340.jpg Land of denial."

Swedish hipsters at an ABBA coverband concert no doubt (and who could blame them?)!

Posted by: wallace1837 1.Aug.2017, 09:12 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 31.Jul.2017, 12:39 PM) *
"Welcome to Sweden http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/197340.jpg Land of denial."

Swedish hipsters at an ABBA coverband concert no doubt (and who could blame them?)!

I was more thinking they were witnessing the decrepitude education system, integration of immigrants, discrimination on foreigners, and security.

Posted by: Svedallas 1.Aug.2017, 11:39 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 1.Aug.2017, 10:12 AM) *
I was more thinking they were witnessing the decrepitude education system, integration of immigrants, discrimination on foreigners, and security.


Who has the violin? Need it back for this post.. laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 1.Aug.2017, 07:14 PM

New coverage about the deportation rage:
https://www.svd.se/kompetensutvisningarna-hotar-bade-individer-och-ekonomin

https://www.svd.se/svenskt-naringsliv-det-ar-forodande-for-foretag

Posted by: wallace1837 3.Aug.2017, 10:24 AM

New coverage about the deportation rage:
https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=https://www.svd.se/utvisningar-slar-hart-mot-flera-foretag-en-haxjakt&prev=search

Posted by: Gjeebes 6.Aug.2017, 05:04 PM

"Over half of the companies in SvD's survey have lost - or risk losing - employees through expulsion decisions in the past year."

"Another company that has suffered in a similar situation is the technology company Semcon, who has lost an employee product designer from China as a result of expulsion. The reason for the Migration Board's decision was that the company had granted the employee leave leave for six months because he needed to take care of a sick relative in China, says Henrik Larsson, HR manager at Semcon."

Wow, Sweden is just such an attractive destination and is really on track to become the "Silicon Valley" of Europe!

So sorry Berlin, Sweden just makes you look unattractive!

Baaahaahahahahaaaa

Posted by: the_dome 6.Aug.2017, 06:32 PM

Sweden can never compete with Germany, they have much bigger IT sector with more jobs and better salaries. Also, it is easier to obtain a blue card in Germany if you are working in IT sector. That is why I am not suprised that Tayyab accepted job offer from Germany, I am about to do the same thing

Posted by: Svedallas 6.Aug.2017, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 6.Aug.2017, 07:32 PM) *
Sweden can never compete with Germany, they have much bigger IT sector with more jobs and better salaries. Also, it is easier to obtain a blue card in Germany if you are working in IT sector. That is why I am not suprised that Tayyab accepted job offer from Germany, I am about to do the same thing


Of course.
Germany has the largest population and economy in Europe.

The taxes are decent, cost of living is fairly low, so it is no surprise that more and more Swedes especially startups are moving there. Many of the large financial institutions in the UK are moving there post-Brexit. So more jobs and opportunities will be created in the coming years.

The only con, is that there is a growing housing problem in the big cities, and of course safety.
But then no where is that safe these days.

Posted by: the_dome 6.Aug.2017, 08:29 PM

Well tbh getting apartment in Germany is one bilion times easier than getting it in Sweden.

Posted by: wallace1837 6.Aug.2017, 09:35 PM

New coverage here
https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.dn.se/ledare/huvudledare/en-tragisk-och-onodig-historia/&prev=search
and there
https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/6E7b0/ardian-20-fick-heltidsjobb--nu-ska-han-utvisas&prev=search

Can someone explain me why Ardian Xhibo is being deported. Maybe it is google translate, or maybe is it Swedish journalism that make thing cryptic. From what I get he is deported because he recently got a full time job!

Keep on the good work Migrationsverket!

Posted by: LLHope 7.Aug.2017, 06:30 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 6.Aug.2017, 09:35 PM) *
Can someone explain me why Ardian Xhibo is being deported.

He broke the terms and conditions of the work permit, simple as that. For the first 2 years your work permit is restricted to a specific employer and occupation, he changed employer.

On a side-track...It would be interesting to know if they report this to the police also, because if he was actually working for the new employer then not only has he broken the law by working without a valid work permit for that job, but the employer also has engaged someone that didn't. It need to be kept in mind that whilst Migrationsverket accept applications to change employers during the first 2 years, if you actually start working at the new employer then you are breaking the law, so is the employer, and Migrationsverket have an obligation to report it to the police. Whether the police do anything is another story!

Posted by: delta76 7.Aug.2017, 07:10 AM

As always - MV does make mistakes - they are humans, after all. But they don't do mass groundless rejections.

The media has been unfair to them, and has been trying hard to make them "at fault", while the employers and being deported employees appear to be all honest, rule obeying and innocent people.

If there is something wrong with Sweden, I'd say it's the media, not MV.

Posted by: wallace1837 7.Aug.2017, 12:48 PM

More coverage here:
https://www.svd.se/migrationsverkets-gd-for-mycket-nitisk-kontroll
and there:
https://www.svd.se/expert-utvisningarna-paverkar-sveriges-rykte

Posted by: wallace1837 7.Aug.2017, 06:24 PM

More coverage here: https://www.svd.se/landet-som-gick-vilse-i-pannkakan

Posted by: wallace1837 7.Aug.2017, 06:47 PM

Can someone tell me whereto find the number of applicant for work permit. MV only reports granted permits https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/About-the-Migration-Agency/Facts-and-statistics-/Statistics/2010.html

Posted by: LLHope 8.Aug.2017, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 7.Aug.2017, 06:47 PM) *
Can someone tell me whereto find the number of applicant for work permit. MV only reports granted permits https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/About-the-Migration-Agency/Facts-and-statistics-/Statistics/2010.html

Are you looking for tha tfact that <1% of the work permit rejects are those that have high profile media coverage ...which in reality should be rewritten as:

Swedish employers claim they are losing World Class Professionals, yet seem incapable of doing what is necessary in simple straight-forward administration to keep them! Companies often claim their biggest asset is their employees, yet cannot even bother to pay and insure them correctly!
Shareholders should ask themselves ...are those managing my asset the right people for the job? Should the law change or should I change those managing my asset?


unsure.gif

Posted by: the_dome 8.Aug.2017, 08:26 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 7.Aug.2017, 07:47 PM) *
Can someone tell me whereto find the number of applicant for work permit. MV only reports granted permits https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/About-the-Migration-Agency/Facts-and-statistics-/Statistics/2010.html


Yeah you won't see statistics about that. You van only see their enhanced "statistics" which makes them look good in the eyes of public

Posted by: wallace1837 8.Aug.2017, 09:12 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 8.Aug.2017, 07:26 PM) *
Yeah you won't see statistics about that. You van only see their enhanced "statistics" which makes them look good in the eyes of public

They now publish on twitter the number of application treated and those accepted. That is where we can get the 20-25% rejection rate on renewal. I was hoping to be able to compare that rejection rate among years.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=446030305781701&id=263441924040541

Posted by: axiom 9.Aug.2017, 07:24 AM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 8.Aug.2017, 08:26 PM) *
Yeah you won't see statistics about that. You van only see their enhanced "statistics" which makes them look good in the eyes of public


A simple Google will suffice:

https://twitter.com/migrationsverk

They are in fact quite open about their statistics. More so than perhaps any other country. They might not state the number of "rejected applications" but the reason for this can any reasonably educated person easily hazard a guess.

Posted by: axiom 9.Aug.2017, 07:31 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:12 PM) *
They now publish on twitter the number of application treated and those accepted. That is where we can get the 20-25% rejection rate on renewal. I was hoping to be able to compare that rejection rate among years.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=446030305781701&id=263441924040541


That is not quite true. MSVT from what I have seen unless I am seeing different Facebook and Twitter feeds does not publish "rejected applications". While it could be considered reasonable to deduce that total decisions- approvals = rejections this is fundamentally flawed.

No case is considered rejected until it has gone through the appeals process, in which case several get overturned, returned for further processing or move to the extended appeals process, some people withdraw their applications and leave.

Posted by: grow_up_stupid_shits 9.Aug.2017, 08:08 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 7.Aug.2017, 07:30 AM) *
He broke the terms and conditions of the work permit, simple as that. For the first 2 years your work permit is restricted to a specific employer and occupation, he changed employer.

On a side-track...It would be interesting to know if they report this to the police also, because if he was actually working for the new employer then not only has he broken the law by working without a valid work permit for that job, but the employer also has engaged someone that didn't. It need to be kept in mind that whilst Migrationsverket accept applications to change employers during the first 2 years, if you actually start working at the new employer then you are breaking the law, so is the employer, and Migrationsverket have an obligation to report it to the police. Whether the police do anything is another story!


Some of you guys are sick beyond reason. Being legal / illegal has a very different morality than being right / wrong or correct / incorrect.

Laws are made by people, and people are subject to mistakes / corruption / hate or X form of negativity.

You come here, defending laws like you made them, like a fucking retard. Another person Wallace or someshit is posting every thread "leave sweden, never come back" or some other shit. I started to believe you are paid to do this on these forums. Get a life man, get a life !

Sometime ago slavery was "legal" and it was illegal to have black people as non-slaves. According to your fucking shit logic / useless brain, if you were living on those times, I'm sure you would defend the laws. Because laws are correct right?

Here read some shit and enlighten your fucktard brain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_slave_trade

When you change jobs, they just want you to apply to a new permit, you don't need to leave Sweden or something. You can change jobs, you can change company. But you have to apply again that's it. I have done that couple times.

Before defending law, learn something about it first fucking retard.

Posted by: grow_up_stupid_shits 9.Aug.2017, 08:11 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 8.Aug.2017, 10:12 PM) *
They now publish on twitter the number of application treated and those accepted. That is where we can get the 20-25% rejection rate on renewal. I was hoping to be able to compare that rejection rate among years.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=446030305781701&id=263441924040541


Get a life man! get a life! you go every thread and say "leave sweden, goto civilized country" or some shit trying to discourage people from fighting for their rights.

Are you paid to do this shit? otherwise get a life, is this how you gonna spend your life going into some forum and writing same shit over and over again. What benefit do you get from discouraging people? Even racists have jobs, get a fucking job man, don't spend your life like this retard.

Posted by: Rooz_sweden 9.Aug.2017, 08:23 AM

QUOTE (grow_up_stupid_shits @ 9.Aug.2017, 09:11 AM) *
Get a life man! get a life! you go every thread and say "leave sweden, goto civilized country" or some shit trying to discourage people from fighting for their rights.

Are you paid to do this shit? otherwise get a life, is this how you gonna spend your life going into some forum and writing same shit over and over again. What benefit do you get from discouraging people? Even racists have jobs, get a fucking job man, don't spend your life like this retard.



I know Wallace is harsh and promotes leaving Sweden stuff but it brings vital information to the forum so we can focus on positive aspect as well. There is no point focussing on particular person.

Secondly, you seems to be promoting Migrationsverket that follow the right method and things would be fine. Unfortunately my friend this is not true. There are so many cases where MV is given different decisions.

Also, everytime you call MV to know the rule for certain cases then the only reply they have that it is up to case officer. Strange, we just want to know the rule so that we can make out what the possible decision would be not MV fails to answer this. Everything is based on Interpretations !

So, to cut short MV also is not perfect and transparent.

Posted by: ITProf 9.Aug.2017, 12:57 PM

Hej Guys
I have read through the news links provided throughout this thread (I know some Swedish) but not sure if I caught the fineprint correctly. And, I also read some replies which mentioned that there were other issues in the highlighted cases than simply less number of semester days taken.

Must say I am utterly confused. So, would like to ask you, if it really is true that MV is rejecting extensions simply because the employee took less than 20 days semester in a specific year even though he had more available? If one does not take all his semester days out, he anyway gets them encashed by the employer at the end of the year, doesn't he? So, what was the problem here? Or was it that the people highlighted in these cases did not even get compensated?

Has someone understood the news correctly?

Thanks!

Posted by: wallace1837 9.Aug.2017, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 9.Aug.2017, 12:57 PM) *
Hej Guys
I have read through the news links provided throughout this thread (I know some Swedish) but not sure if I caught the fineprint correctly. And, I also read some replies which mentioned that there were other issues in the highlighted cases than simply less number of semester days taken.

Must say I am utterly confused. So, would like to ask you, if it really is true that MV is rejecting extensions simply because the employee took less than 20 days semester in a specific year even though he had more available? If one does not take all his semester days out, he anyway gets them encashed by the employer at the end of the year, doesn't he? So, what was the problem here? Or was it that the people highlighted in these cases did not even get compensated?

Has someone understood the news correctly?

Thanks!

One person, and its family, are being deported based on only the vacation issue. Migrationsverket operates above the law. They will continue to do so until an external force coerce them to follow the law.

Posted by: wallace1837 9.Aug.2017, 07:10 PM

More coverage of the deportation rage:
http://www.na.se/opinion/ledare/sjalvklart-ska-migrationsverket-vara-nitiskt-i-sitt-arbete

Posted by: LLHope 9.Aug.2017, 10:35 PM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 9.Aug.2017, 12:57 PM) *
Or was it that the people highlighted in these cases did not even get compensated?

That is what it probably was. The ground principle for issuing work permits is that the employer cannot find the skill here in Sweden (EU actually) so must bring in someone from outside the EU, and as a side protector against wage erosion the employer should not be gaining financially specifically on the employee costs by bringing in someone from outside of the EU, which is why there is the salary and insurance requirement.

If an employee is not compensated for the vacations they didn't take then the employer has gained. It is not easy to determine if the employee did not take their vacation because of pressure from the employer (threat to terminate) or not.

We do not know the actual text of the rejection, and it will indeed be interesting to see what the written statement from MV to the court of appeal will be in this case. We only know the spin pushed in the media.

Posted by: Svedallas 9.Aug.2017, 11:56 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:35 PM) *
That is what it probably was. The ground principle for issuing work permits is that the employer cannot find the skill here in Sweden (EU actually) so must bring in someone from outside the EU, and as a side protector against wage erosion the employer should not be gaining financially specifically on the employee costs by bringing in someone from outside of the EU, which is why there is the salary and insurance requirement.

If an employee is not compensated for the vacations they didn't take then the employer has gained. It is not easy to determine if the employee did not take their vacation because of pressure from the employer (threat to terminate) or not.

We do not know the actual text of the rejection, and it will indeed be interesting to see what the written statement from MV to the court of appeal will be in this case. We only know the spin pushed in the media.


In theory, that it how it should be.

However, there are a number of people who received permits "by default". Being that they are for low unskilled jobs or jobs that are not unique enough to constitute sponsoring a work permit. A pizza baker (in recent news ?) - not exactly the foreign worker that cannot already be found in Sweden. This is a job that should be given to a young person leaving school as a first job, or a legitimate refugee, who is looking to get into the workforce. These jobs, should have been given to those who are resident/ or unemployed and already in Sweden. And MV is trying to change this...

Also, arbetsförmedlingen, is also under a lot of pressure to get the registered unemployed numbers down. Unemployment for under 25 is around 10%. Which is pretty high.

For the ones who are already working (with "default" permit) are probably receiving lower pay, taking less vacation days. So deliberately breaking the law, and thus, getting deported. There is an argument that employers are taking advantage of them. Perhaps.

In the past 2 years, arbetsförmedlingen started giving more incentives given by the state to employ people already registered in the system, so when a permit is not renewed, or there is a fault. It is now really easy for an employer to save money if they take up the incentive instead. It is a cost benefit!

Generally speaking, work permit generally is just a mess!

And, rather than wait for it to be resolved, and have a clear set of rules and regulations, many companies (some of which I know) are backing out from the whole process. It is just a hassle!
The increased media attention is driving companies/people away
https://www.svd.se/expert-utvisningarna-paverkar-sveriges-rykte

More and more, companies are opting to work directly with recruitment agencies who have a database of potential people, who are ready and willing to work.

But yes, sure would be interesting to see appeal cases to see employers justified reasoning. But for now, it is like watching a guessing game with the current system.

Posted by: the_dome 10.Aug.2017, 06:09 AM

I don't know about you but I've tried making pizza 1 milion times and every time it turns to be different taste. I went to at least 100 different pizza places and every single one of them has a different taste where most of them were not so good.
Then there are pizza masters, people that can really bake pizza. Of course there is average chef and there is Gordon Ramsey.
So have you tried this guy's pizza, is he average or he is gifted pizza baker?
If he is gifted then why should employer that owns pizza place hire refugee or school dropout to bake pizza? That doesn't seems logical to me.
He is being kicked out of country because of 46 euros that have been corrected afterwards. I spend 46 euros on lunch. MV is about to ruin someone's life because of one lunch. Is that proportional usage of law?
Before there was a case at Migrationsöverdomstolen, MV never checked these kinds of issues. Then in 2015 or 2016 when the new "praxis" came, they started shaking out I every single case.
Is that usage of law system that is equal for everyone?
By using logic and common sense anyone can conclude that it is not.
Even the director of MV says that there are too many checkups. Director. And then there are people here that says that it is justified. Yeah, you have the right to have your own opinion. It doesn't mean that you are right though.
Current migration laws have too much of a political influence and interference which in democracy should not be the case.
Also, waiting times are abnormal.

Posted by: wallace1837 10.Aug.2017, 07:34 PM

More media coverage here:
http://www.expressen.se/debatt/sluta-utvisa-vara-kollegor/

Posted by: axiom 10.Aug.2017, 07:48 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 9.Aug.2017, 07:09 PM) *
One person, and its family, are being deported based on only the vacation issue. Migrationsverket operates above the law. They will continue to do so until an external force coerce them to follow the law.


Actually, it is quite the opposite. MSVT operates too strict on the law. I know that doesn't fit your narrative but that is, in fact, the case

Posted by: axiom 10.Aug.2017, 08:03 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 10.Aug.2017, 06:09 AM) *
I don't know about you but I've tried making pizza 1 milion times and every time it turns to be different taste. I went to at least 100 different pizza places and every single one of them has a different taste where most of them were not so good.
Then there are pizza masters, people that can really bake pizza. Of course there is average chef and there is Gordon Ramsey.
So have you tried this guy's pizza, is he average or he is gifted pizza baker?
If he is gifted then why should employer that owns pizza place hire refugee or school dropout to bake pizza? That doesn't seems logical to me.
He is being kicked out of country because of 46 euros that have been corrected afterwards. I spend 46 euros on lunch. MV is about to ruin someone's life because of one lunch. Is that proportional usage of law?
Before there was a case at Migrationsöverdomstolen, MV never checked these kinds of issues. Then in 2015 or 2016 when the new "praxis" came, they started shaking out I every single case.
Is that usage of law system that is equal for everyone?
By using logic and common sense anyone can conclude that it is not.
Even the director of MV says that there are too many checkups. Director. And then there are people here that says that it is justified. Yeah, you have the right to have your own opinion. It doesn't mean that you are right though.
Current migration laws have too much of a political influence and interference which in democracy should not be the case.
Also, waiting times are abnormal.


For the life of me, I cannot get my head around this: we have a combination of some of the "best companies" that "highly value" their "top employees" but cheat them out of paying them in line with Swedish residents, jeopardize their work permit applications because of a "mistake" (my arse) and then come shouting to the media that they are being treated unfairly.

These are employees that are supposed to be smarter than me! working for modern savvy companies that are more cutting edge and brainy than mine. Though I have never needed a WP I made sure all my insurances, etc were in place. This is not rocket science, the rules were never a secret and the permit was granted on the condition that the rules were met, this too seemed to have only been a secret to the employees and employers involved.

Migrationsverket was more lenient a few years ago. However, one case it was taken all the way up the appeals system which effectively concluded that rules for permits were not lenient and MSVT is expected to apply the rule of the law as stipulated. From that point on, they did, there was a legal ruling that instructed them so to do.

You might have other views or opinions but you cannot just ignore the law when it suits you. The same legal basis that grants you a permit when you meet the requirements is the same that rejects your application when you don't. One would rightly not accept if MSVT ignored other legal basis and rejected your application. i.e. bent the law in their favor.

The silliest part of all the discussions are the politicians who come on the media and moan but do nothing to change the underlying laws.

Posted by: wallace1837 10.Aug.2017, 08:06 PM

QUOTE (axiom @ 10.Aug.2017, 07:48 PM) *
Actually, it is quite the opposite. MSVT operates too strict on the law. I know that doesn't fit your narrative but that is, in fact, the case

Please do cite the law, or refer to it. Thanks.

Posted by: axiom 10.Aug.2017, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 10.Aug.2017, 08:06 PM) *
Please do cite the law, or refer to it. Thanks.


I think you miss how legal systems work. While laws are written, the interpretation of laws is the duty of the courts. So I can be doing something quite legally that is not specifically written in text in a law book, however, the opinion of the courts have in effect created a legal basis for my actions. Or as Sweden calls it a "praxis".

This is the kind of philosophical question a law student encounters: https://www.quora.com/Can-courts-make-law

https://www.svd.se/migrationsverkets-gd-for-mycket-nitisk-kontroll

Posted by: wallace1837 10.Aug.2017, 08:37 PM

QUOTE (axiom @ 10.Aug.2017, 07:11 PM) *
I think you miss how legal systems work. While laws are written, the interpretation of laws is the duty of the courts. So I can be doing something quite legally that is not specifically written in text in a law book, however, the opinion of the courts have in effect created a legal basis for my actions. Or as Sweden calls it a "praxis".

This is the kind of philosophical question a law student encounters: https://www.quora.com/Can-courts-make-law

https://www.svd.se/migrationsverkets-gd-for-mycket-nitisk-kontroll

So there is nothing in the Alien act about deporting people who took too few vacation. And there is no court case about too few vacation and deportation to refer to either.

Posted by: axiom 11.Aug.2017, 06:30 AM

You are still missing the point.

Posted by: wallace1837 11.Aug.2017, 08:13 AM

QUOTE (axiom @ 11.Aug.2017, 05:30 AM) *
You are still missing the point.

I see your point. The thing that I miss is any evidence of a law or court case that would make deportation of worker who took too few vacation legitimate. Until I see supporting evidence, I will consider your point as a hypothesis, and continue to forge my opinion on factual evidence.

Posted by: hatim 11.Aug.2017, 08:50 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 9.Aug.2017, 08:09 PM) *
One person, and its family, are being deported based on only the vacation issue. Migrationsverket operates above the law. They will continue to do so until an external force coerce them to follow the law.


One definition of "above the law" can be found here
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/above_the_law

If MV decides to invent new laws or disobeys direct court order then I would say they are above the law. But from what I understand they claim to be acting within the confines of the law. This thing can be challanged though

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 11.Aug.2017, 09:13 AM) *
I see your point. The thing that I miss is any evidence of a law or court case that would make deportation of worker who took too few vacation legitimate. Until I see supporting evidence, I will consider your point as a hypothesis, and continue to forge my opinion on factual evidence.

I believe this is how the law works. If some one is deported for any reason cited by MV they have some time to appeal. If They don't appeal then the decision is final and it is within the confines of the law. So untill some thing is challanged in the court MV is the judge and the jury. You may not like it, but this is how it is. Once some thing is challanged then the judge may be the courts. And then they decide what is within the confines of law at that moment.

Posted by: wallace1837 11.Aug.2017, 06:38 PM

QUOTE (hatim @ 11.Aug.2017, 07:50 AM) *
I believe this is how the law works. If some one is deported for any reason cited by MV they have some time to appeal. If They don't appeal then the decision is final and it is within the confines of the law. So untill some thing is challanged in the court MV is the judge and the jury. You may not like it, but this is how it is. Once some thing is challanged then the judge may be the courts. And then they decide what is within the confines of law at that moment.

So you believe that public authorities like Migrationsverket generate new laws by throwing random non sense (like the vacation-deportation stupidity) and it is the role of courts to make those non sense drift into law.

Fortunately your believes and only ... believes.

Posted by: hatim 11.Aug.2017, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 11.Aug.2017, 07:38 PM) *
So you believe that public authorities like Migrationsverket generate new laws by throwing random non sense (like the vacation-deportation stupidity) and it is the role of courts to make those non sense drift into law.

Fortunately your believes and only ... believes.

I never claimed they were facts.

But yes this is what I "believe". MV interprets the law the best it can. They are not "for" or "against" any one.

You "believe" that MV has an agenda.

You pass news headlines as proofs.

I reject your proof.

I think it is not sound and without merit (you supposed claim fact that MV is acting according to some secret political directive and not in the confines of the current law).

I believe you don't understand how Swedish systems works.

You are free to "believe" otherwise and I respect that.

I do believe that the law in current form is fucked up (for the lack of better words). It is complex and unfair at times (not punishing rouge employers for example)

PS: I wish you all the best. I have no personal grudge against you. I hope you stop thinking that every one is after you (like you have made me believe with your paranoia so far which has gotten SOME other people in the threads riled up. And I I condemn any personal attacks.

Posted by: wallace1837 11.Aug.2017, 07:12 PM

QUOTE (hatim @ 11.Aug.2017, 05:51 PM) *
I think it is not sound and without merit (you supposed claim fact that MV is acting according to some secret political directive and not in the confines of the current law).

The plan of the government is by no mean secret!
https://www.thelocal.se/jobs/article/swedish-pm-seeks-to-cut-inflow-of-foreign-workers

Posted by: hatim 11.Aug.2017, 07:21 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 11.Aug.2017, 08:12 PM) *
The plan of the government is by no mean secret!
https://www.thelocal.se/jobs/article/swedish-pm-seeks-to-cut-inflow-of-foreign-workers

Your allegation that MV follows some political speech instead of the current law and praxis is _ALSO_ flawed.

I assume there is a difference between a "speech" and a "directive"

Posted by: Svedallas 11.Aug.2017, 07:39 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 10.Aug.2017, 07:09 AM) *
I don't know about you but I've tried making pizza 1 milion times and every time it turns to be different taste. I went to at least 100 different pizza places and every single one of them has a different taste where most of them were not so good.
Then there are pizza masters, people that can really bake pizza. Of course there is average chef and there is Gordon Ramsey.
So have you tried this guy's pizza, is he average or he is gifted pizza baker?
If he is gifted then why should employer that owns pizza place hire refugee or school dropout to bake pizza? That doesn't seems logical to me.
He is being kicked out of country because of 46 euros that have been corrected afterwards. I spend 46 euros on lunch. MV is about to ruin someone's life because of one lunch. Is that proportional usage of law?
Before there was a case at Migrationsöverdomstolen, MV never checked these kinds of issues. Then in 2015 or 2016 when the new "praxis" came, they started shaking out I every single case.
Is that usage of law system that is equal for everyone?
By using logic and common sense anyone can conclude that it is not.
Even the director of MV says that there are too many checkups. Director. And then there are people here that says that it is justified. Yeah, you have the right to have your own opinion. It doesn't mean that you are right though.
Current migration laws have too much of a political influence and interference which in democracy should not be the case.
Also, waiting times are abnormal.


Pizza is not a skill that we need to get foreigner workers for. Period.

Professionals, who have the education, experience are contributing, to a more competitive workforce are far more deserving.

Pizza... laugh.gif bread + tomato. Anyone can do it.

Posted by: Svedallas 11.Aug.2017, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (axiom @ 10.Aug.2017, 09:03 PM) *
For the life of me, I cannot get my head around this: we have a combination of some of the "best companies" that "highly value" their "top employees" but cheat them out of paying them in line with Swedish residents, jeopardize their work permit applications because of a "mistake" (my arse) and then come shouting to the media that they are being treated unfairly.

These are employees that are supposed to be smarter than me! working for modern savvy companies that are more cutting edge and brainy than mine. Though I have never needed a WP I made sure all my insurances, etc were in place. This is not rocket science, the rules were never a secret and the permit was granted on the condition that the rules were met, this too seemed to have only been a secret to the employees and employers involved.

Migrationsverket was more lenient a few years ago. However, one case it was taken all the way up the appeals system which effectively concluded that rules for permits were not lenient and MSVT is expected to apply the rule of the law as stipulated. From that point on, they did, there was a legal ruling that instructed them so to do.

You might have other views or opinions but you cannot just ignore the law when it suits you. The same legal basis that grants you a permit when you meet the requirements is the same that rejects your application when you don't. One would rightly not accept if MSVT ignored other legal basis and rejected your application. i.e. bent the law in their favor.

The silliest part of all the discussions are the politicians who come on the media and moan but do nothing to change the underlying laws.


MV made dire mistakes.
And now they are putting blame on the application system, and small print.

This always happens, make a mistake, discover it, put the blame on some form of the law, then make drastic changes. The new work permit laws will come into effect sure enough.

Same thing happened with asylum laws. They make people wait, or give deportation orders. Then when they change the law they state "if applied prior to 2016", the law will apply to you.

And yes, politics, and media do play a role to the changes.
The laws will once again change when brexit comes into effect. Another whole set of changes. And prior to elections, there will be a lot more temporary changes.

Welcome to Sweden. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Salamsweden 13.Aug.2017, 09:20 AM

The best way to stay in sweden permanently is to find a swedish woman laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 13.Aug.2017, 06:32 PM

Some more coverage of the deportation rage:
http://www.dn.se/ledare/huvudledare/en-tragisk-och-onodig-historia/

Posted by: ToSheila 13.Aug.2017, 06:41 PM

The news article summarizes "the rage", but I was wondering, as it is mentioning 'vacation deportation', what is the proper way (as per MV) to utilize paid holiday days in first year and second year of working?

TIA!

Posted by: wallace1837 13.Aug.2017, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (ToSheila @ 13.Aug.2017, 06:41 PM) *
The news article summarizes "the rage", but I was wondering, as it is mentioning 'vacation deportation', what is the proper way (as per MV) to utilize paid holiday days in first year and second year of working?

TIA!

There is no proper way. They are making up rules. So far no one who took 20 paid vacation day per year is in trouble, but this could change any moment.

Posted by: Svedallas 14.Aug.2017, 05:10 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 13.Aug.2017, 07:32 PM) *
Some more coverage of the deportation rage:
http://www.dn.se/ledare/huvudledare/en-tragisk-och-onodig-historia/



https://www.thelocal.se/20170814/record-number-of-foreigners-registered-with-swedens-public-employment-service

The jobs are going to the people who are registered, ready, and willing and able to work.

It makes more sense to give jobs to "foreigners" who are already in Sweden who already have the right of residence - less hassle + less costs.

Posted by: wallace1837 14.Aug.2017, 06:27 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 14.Aug.2017, 05:10 PM) *
https://www.thelocal.se/20170814/record-number-of-foreigners-registered-with-swedens-public-employment-service

The jobs are going to the people who are registered, ready, and willing and able to work.

And not to the people who are already occupying those jobs and are efficient at it...

Also in the article, they make it sound like it is an education issue. Unfortunately, the OECD number about Sweden gives us a pretty different picture.
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=MIG_EMP_EDUCATION
The discrimination is at all levels of education!

Posted by: Svedallas 14.Aug.2017, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 14.Aug.2017, 07:27 PM) *
And not to the people who are already occupying those jobs and are efficient at it...

Also in the article, they make it sound like it is an education issue. Unfortunately, the OECD number about Sweden gives us a pretty different picture.
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=MIG_EMP_EDUCATION
The discrimination is at all levels of education!


No it is not an education issue.
And only because one is efficient does not constitute one to qualify for a work permit.

There are already unemployed in Sweden. Who are permanent residents.
That is the fact.

Why should the government keep paying for programs to get them into the workforce?
Foreigners already in Sweden should and will get the priority.
And if they don't have the experience for the job, then it will go to the youth/young - who have left high school looking for a first job, entry job to get the experience. Shutting them out is not how it works.

Highly qualified, educated who add to the workforce should rightfully get a permit, especially for skills which are rare and hard to find. That only benefits the workforce. Also, they contribute more - in terms of having decent salaries, which do not just meet the "minimum".

It is good MV is finally seeing the sense in restructuring how they issue permits.
Swedish residents/youth will always come first.

Get over it.

Posted by: wallace1837 14.Aug.2017, 09:10 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 14.Aug.2017, 08:50 PM) *
No it is not an education issue.
And only because one is efficient does not constitute one to qualify for a work permit.

There are already unemployed in Sweden. Who are permanent residents.
That is the fact.

Why should the government keep paying for programs to get them into the workforce?
Foreigners already in Sweden should and will get the priority.
And if they don't have the experience for the job, then it will go to the youth/young - who have left high school looking for a first job, entry job to get the experience. Shutting them out is not how it works.

Highly qualified, educated who add to the workforce should rightfully get a permit, especially for skills which are rare and hard to find. That only benefits the workforce. Also, they contribute more - in terms of having decent salaries, which do not just meet the "minimum".

It is good MV is finally seeing the sense in restructuring how they issue permits.
Swedish residents/youth will always come first.

Get over it.

Your point would be really relevant is we were taking about issuing new permit, not denial of extension after 4-5 years!

How does your rational fit with "Foreigners already in Sweden should and will get the priority." when migrationsverket issue deportation order to 20-25% of them.

Posted by: Svedallas 14.Aug.2017, 11:59 PM

Denial after 5 years. Same reasoning.

Youth/Resident/qualified - come first.

Take it up with MV. Facts are facts, laws are laws.

Posted by: the_dome 15.Aug.2017, 07:20 AM

Because of the people like Svedallas and their reasoning the first thing I am going to do when I get my permit is quit my job and live on social bidrag even though I am well educated and have high salary smile.gif I will use this system like a dirt bag. And trust me, one way or another I am staying/ coming back to Sweden and since I'm young that is plenty years of living on social bidrag.

Posted by: Svedallas 15.Aug.2017, 08:58 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 14.Aug.2017, 10:10 PM) *
Your point would be really relevant is we were taking about issuing new permit, not denial of extension after 4-5 years!

How does your rational fit with "Foreigners already in Sweden should and will get the priority." when migrationsverket issue deportation order to 20-25% of them.



QUOTE (the_dome @ 15.Aug.2017, 08:20 AM) *
Because of the people like Svedallas and their reasoning the first thing I am going to do when I get my permit is quit my job and live on social bidrag even though I am well educated and have high salary smile.gif I will use this system like a dirt bag. And trust me, one way or another I am staying/ coming back to Sweden and since I'm young that is plenty years of living on social bidrag.


Yeah. Do that! laugh.gif
Who cares.

Posted by: the_dome 15.Aug.2017, 10:18 AM

Well you do obviously

Posted by: IndianInStockholm 15.Aug.2017, 03:35 PM

What a slanging match!

Ironically, I'm waiting for a visa for the last one year. I did not take all my vacation the last year because I wanted to save up vacation days to take my customary long vacation to visit family back home.

But enter migrationverket and they make me wait one year and still no one has picked up my case. My employer (HR) did hassle me about the excessive saved days! I said I didn't want to cash out since it's non-optimal and since I wanted to use the days up as soon as I get my visa. We finally agreed that I would have a plan to use them up in this year come what may (and I did take a few of them in the summer).

Now I hear of these cases and feel I can be picked on. My employer doesn't have a collective agreement but adheres to the rules in principle. Certainly no case of denying me leave. Quite the opposite.

So what's likely to happen now do you think ? For the record the previous year, I ended up taking up almost all my vacation since I had a permit to travel outside the country back then.

Should I advice my company to pay out the extra days from last year ASAP ?

Posted by: the_dome 15.Aug.2017, 03:51 PM

You should

Posted by: wallace1837 15.Aug.2017, 04:02 PM

QUOTE (IndianInStockholm @ 15.Aug.2017, 03:35 PM) *
What a slanging match!

Ironically, I'm waiting for a visa for the last one year. I did not take all my vacation the last year because I wanted to save up vacation days to take my customary long vacation to visit family back home.

But enter migrationverket and they make me wait one year and still no one has picked up my case. My employer (HR) did hassle me about the excessive saved days! I said I didn't want to cash out since it's non-optimal and since I wanted to use the days up as soon as I get my visa. We finally agreed that I would have a plan to use them up in this year come what may (and I did take a few of them in the summer).

Now I hear of these cases and feel I can be picked on. My employer doesn't have a collective agreement but adheres to the rules in principle. Certainly no case of denying me leave. Quite the opposite.

So what's likely to happen now do you think ? For the record the previous year, I ended up taking up almost all my vacation since I had a permit to travel outside the country back then.

Should I advice my company to pay out the extra days from last year ASAP ?

Did you take at least 20 days of vacation per year since you step foot in Sweden with a work permit?

If not, prepare to pack.

If you did, then you may wait one more year and maybe get a vacation with your family, if the permit is valid long enough.

Sweden is a really a savage country, especially in the treatment of their foreign workers!

Posted by: LLHope 15.Aug.2017, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 15.Aug.2017, 04:02 PM) *
Did you take at least 20 days of vacation per year since you step foot in Sweden with a work permit?

In the case you refer to you have clearly missed the most important part of the reason for rejection. During the persons 1st work permit they not only could not show they had taken or been paid for the paid vacation they were entitled to, even after being asked for proof, the person was also paid 12.500:-/m which is under the 13.000:-/m minimum for a work permit. The counter argument in the proposed defense is that for that work permit the withdrawal process had started so Migrationsverket should not count that as part of the latest decision. That is the most relevant part of the case, and can open doors to all kinds of scenarios if the court agrees to the defense.

Serious questions should be raised with regards if swedish companies cannot protect their world class employees on simple matters such as paying them correctly and insuring them, then shouldn't they be very very carefully audited to ensure they are doing their tax accounting correctly! rolleyes.gif

Seriously, it isn't difficult pay employees or insure them correctly!

Posted by: Svedallas 15.Aug.2017, 06:10 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 15.Aug.2017, 11:18 AM) *
Well you do obviously


+1 laugh.gif

Posted by: ITProf 15.Aug.2017, 07:36 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 15.Aug.2017, 04:51 PM) *
In the case you refer to you have clearly missed the most important part of the reason for rejection. During the persons 1st work permit they not only could not show they had taken or been paid for the paid vacation they were entitled to, even after being asked for proof, the person was also paid 12.500:-/m which is under the 13.000:-/m minimum for a work permit. The counter argument in the proposed defense is that for that work permit the withdrawal process had started so Migrationsverket should not count that as part of the latest decision. That is the most relevant part of the case, and can open doors to all kinds of scenarios if the court agrees to the defense.

Serious questions should be raised with regards if swedish companies cannot protect their world class employees on simple matters such as paying them correctly and insuring them, then shouldn't they be very very carefully audited to ensure they are doing their tax accounting correctly! rolleyes.gif

Seriously, it isn't difficult pay employees or insure them correctly!


But LLHope, there are at least two cases reported where people are being deported for not taking the 20 leaves. I think the name are Usman and Sameer. At least one case was purely the semester issue. What about that?

Posted by: wallace1837 15.Aug.2017, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 15.Aug.2017, 06:36 PM) *
But LLHope, there are at least two cases reported where people are being deported for not taking the 20 leaves. I think the name are Usman and Sameer. At least one case was purely the semester issue. What about that?

+1

Posted by: wallace1837 15.Aug.2017, 08:08 PM

More coverage of the http://www.dn.se/sthlm/landstingspolitiker-kraver-stopp-for-utvisningar/: http://www.dn.se/sthlm/landstingspolitiker-kraver-stopp-for-utvisningar/

Posted by: ITProf 15.Aug.2017, 08:30 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 15.Aug.2017, 07:08 PM) *
More coverage of the http://www.dn.se/sthlm/landstingspolitiker-kraver-stopp-for-utvisningar/: http://www.dn.se/sthlm/landstingspolitiker-kraver-stopp-for-utvisningar/


All talk and no action. We've been reading such statements since the first deportation case reported 1-2 years back. I find it incredible that people can get deported but there is no way for then to fix mistakes. Is it only about punishment? Do genuine people not make mistakes? No scope for fines also. I guess criminals stand better chances for rehab than working migrants.

Sorry for sounding a little irritated. But my view of Swedish society and Sweden was quite different before these incidents began. Though i stil value my colleagues just as much as before.

Posted by: LLHope 16.Aug.2017, 06:39 AM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 15.Aug.2017, 07:36 PM) *
But LLHope, there are at least two cases reported where people are being deported for not taking the 20 leaves. I think the name are Usman and Sameer. At least one case was purely the semester issue. What about that?

The other case is clear in Swedish vacation law. The person had 30 days paid vacation for 1 year, earned the previous year, he only took 9 of them and saved 21. Vacation law says you get 25 days paid, and can save 5 of those. If you have more than 25 days per year (common with 30 days, and no overtime pay) then you can by agreement with your employer save those over 20 days. Clear cut in this case that the person did not use-up 21 days! Not using those paid vacation days means the employer did not pay the days nor the additional amount you get per day for being off on vacation. This law only applies to earned paid vacation days. A surprisingly correct decision by Migrationsverket.

Posted by: the_dome 16.Aug.2017, 07:07 AM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 15.Aug.2017, 09:30 PM) *
All talk and no action. We've been reading such statements since the first deportation case reported 1-2 years back. I find it incredible that people can get deported but there is no way for then to fix mistakes. Is it only about punishment? Do genuine people not make mistakes? No scope for fines also. I guess criminals stand better chances for rehab than working migrants.

Sorry for sounding a little irritated. But my view of Swedish society and Sweden was quite different before these incidents began. Though i stil value my colleagues just as much as before.


Migrationsverket and migrationsöverdomstolen thinks that humans should be perfect like god creatures where you should not make a single mistake in 5 years in order to stay. After that you can make as many mistakes as you want smile.gif that is why normal human being will be picking Germany instead.

Posted by: delta76 16.Aug.2017, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 16.Aug.2017, 06:39 AM) *
The other case is clear in Swedish vacation law. The person had 30 days paid vacation for 1 year, earned the previous year, he only took 9 of them and saved 21. Vacation law says you get 25 days paid, and can save 5 of those. If you have more than 25 days per year (common with 30 days, and no overtime pay) then you can by agreement with your employer save those over 20 days. Clear cut in this case that the person did not use-up 21 days! Not using those paid vacation days means the employer did not pay the days nor the additional amount you get per day for being off on vacation. This law only applies to earned paid vacation days. A surprisingly correct decision by Migrationsverket.


Just to make sure: If I didn't take enough vacation days (because I don't feel like it), but the company pays me back the salary for the unused and unsaved days, and the "compensation" for those days, things should be fine, right?

Posted by: ITProf 16.Aug.2017, 10:35 AM

QUOTE (delta76 @ 16.Aug.2017, 08:54 AM) *
Just to make sure: If I didn't take enough vacation days (because I don't feel like it), but the company pays me back the salary for the unused and unsaved days, and the "compensation" for those days, things should be fine, right?


+1

I was wondering the same thing. I assume that it would ALWAYS be the case that you get paid for the days that you haven't used up. Who would let those days go waste if they weren't going to be encashed?

But then, there was no mention of this in the news items we read everyday.

In fact, last year I asked my company's staff support team what happens to the semester days that we don't use up and that do not get carried forward (since I was using parental leave in the beginning) and they told me that the days automatically get encashed at end of semester year.

I really do not see what is wrong if smeone cashes out their leaves instead of being off. It is still the same benefit.

What say? Or have we misundertood anything?

Posted by: IndianInStockholm 16.Aug.2017, 12:01 PM

As I understand, It's not a problem if you encash (or the company encashes it automatically).

In the case mentioned (Usman) the company and employee agreed to carry over the 21 days leave to the next year. So they were neither encashed nor availed.
It seems the other case (Samir) is not as clear cut and had other complications. But Usman's case seems a clearcut issue with vacation days availed, atleast from what I understand reading google translate.

That's the interpretation I get.

It's actually quite common in practice that you agree to save up more days to use up in the next year, especially among expats who want to take long vacations going back home etc.

But now MV is picking on that in terms of legality and that's the problem.

Posted by: ITProf 16.Aug.2017, 03:04 PM

The mere fact that we are even discussing this semester issue in such detail, shows how wrong MVs focus really is.

If illegal immigration really is a problem in your country (such as in UK), one would understand them taking harsher measures. And I know its a big headache for them because a lot of people enter illegally and work in hiding under bad work-conditions over there. But Sweden doesn't have any such problem. so its better if they focussed on makig the country better at what it is already good at, rather than pick on people who are trying to make their lives better through an honest day's work. Specially in cases where the error is due to ambiguity of laws/rules. I mean who could have imagined that semester days skipped could get one deported?

Posted by: ITProf 16.Aug.2017, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (IndianInStockholm @ 16.Aug.2017, 12:01 PM) *
As I understand, It's not a problem if you encash (or the company encashes it automatically).

In the case mentioned (Usman) the company and employee agreed to carry over the 21 days leave to the next year. So they were neither encashed nor availed.
It seems the other case (Samir) is not as clear cut and had other complications. But Usman's case seems a clearcut issue with vacation days availed, atleast from what I understand reading google translate.

That's the interpretation I get.

It's actually quite common in practice that you agree to save up more days to use up in the next year, especially among expats who want to take long vacations going back home etc.

But now MV is picking on that in terms of legality and that's the problem.


I hope you are right but I did not read this anywhere that the problem was due to not encashing the leaves and carrying all of them forward. Can you share a link where it says so so that I can also read it?

Posted by: LLHope 16.Aug.2017, 06:13 PM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 16.Aug.2017, 03:04 PM) *
The mere fact that we are even discussing this semester issue in such detail, shows how wrong MVs focus really is.

No. It shows that you do not understand the nature of employment in Sweden.
Almost everything in Swedish employment law has been negotiated between politicians, trade unions and employers long ago with the aim of securing protection for both employers (in terms of roles and continuity) and employees in terms of security and ability to balance work-home time.

The argument about not taking vacation to have longer vacation is covered VERY clearly in vacation law, where an employee can save 5 days vacation per year, each year for 5 years in order to be able to, if they want, every 5 years take a 10 week vacation ... and that ability to take a 10 week vacation is actually protected. The balance between protecting employer/employee is that the employee can save 5 days per year for 5 years, and the employer does not get hit directly with someone saving 21 days then trying to take 40->50 days vacation the next year!

Not understanding the balance of work-home history like this and then, like many here, blaming employers and/or law because it doesn't suit you (an outsider), is one very good reason an employer can say I prefer to take those that are Swedish and/or proven integrated in society, as they understand the nature of work-home. It isn't just about work, and isn't just about doing a job efficiently as many claim! It is about understanding and being able to live in Sweden ...yes, and that also means understanding the work-social-cohesion purpose of afternoon fika rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Martian 16.Aug.2017, 06:23 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 15.Aug.2017, 09:58 AM) *
Yeah. Do that! laugh.gif
Who cares.


-50

Posted by: Martian 16.Aug.2017, 06:24 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 15.Aug.2017, 11:18 AM) *
Well you do obviously


+50

Posted by: Gjeebes 16.Aug.2017, 06:35 PM

Sweden, and its rules, are ever so very convoluted. And those lovely administrators like to keep changing things around, not because something isn't working, but simply because they are fighting to justify their mere existence at all. A grand "make-work-project" sponsored by the naïve Swedish tax payer.

What is happening here is just completely unheard of in "normal" Western democracies.

In most places I've lived (Sweden being the ONLY exception), its been relatively straightforward what needs to be done, and how to do it, and if you aren't sure, the info is easily accessed from existing co-workers, or other company employees.

Sweden though, is just an f'ing nightmare with all its fine print and other non-sense in general.

People outside Sweden, getting wind of how utterly retarded the systems here are, can almost not even believe it is possible how Sweden goes about doing pretty much anything.

Posted by: LLHope 16.Aug.2017, 11:11 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 16.Aug.2017, 06:35 PM) *
Sweden, and its rules, are ever so very convoluted.
What is happening here is just completely unheard of in "normal" Western democracies.

I guess it will come as a surprise to you that much of it now has it's basis from EU Directive on Work Time. This is where the minimum 20 paid days is enshrined in EU Law, the fact that you cannot (unless there are exceptional circumstances) carry across vacations, and surprisingly ... en employer is NOT allowed to compensate-for/buy-out the 20 paid vacation days (unless you are leaving the job)

In Germany the rules for vacations are quite similar to Sweden, except (if I remember correctly) that you cannot carry across days, if you were not able to take your vacation because of illness or accepted business reasons, then those days carried across must be taken before the end of march the following year or they (and the holiday pay) are lost. This is a little bit more draconian than Sweden!

Posted by: Gjeebes 17.Aug.2017, 05:24 AM

And yet we aren't hearing about foreign workers being deported from Germany because of unused vacation.

Sweden, being a small and rather insignificant EU state, tends to require a more heavy leaning on "the rules" than in other EU states, simply because it has little leverage.

Posted by: the_dome 17.Aug.2017, 10:54 AM

You can't compare Germany and Sweden, Germans are efficient while in Sweden they are streching waiting times so that they have "work to do". In Germany there were 10x more asylum seekers, work permits etc and processing times are much shorter than in Sweden. Tayyab Shabab waited 7 days to get a wp in Germany. In Sweden he has been waiting for 1,5 years and nothing. As I was writing earlier, I know ca 10 people that work in MV and all of them are lazy characters. I don't think it's a coincidence, it is just a profile of people that want/can work there

Posted by: Svedallas 17.Aug.2017, 11:24 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 17.Aug.2017, 06:24 AM) *
And yet we aren't hearing about foreign workers being deported from Germany because of unused vacation.

Sweden, being a small and rather insignificant EU state, tends to require a more heavy leaning on "the rules" than in other EU states, simply because it has little leverage.


Probably because it is harder to get a work permit in Germany. They have higher standards, compared to Sweden.

They don't just issue work permits because a person can do the job and can meet the minimum salary requirement. In order to get the German permit, they have to see if first the job cannot be filled by a resident, then an EU citizen. And if that cannot be done, they have a minimum educational requirement. (Which makes sense)

It makes Swedish work permits look like a joke.
But because of the weird changes, deportation rate because of their errors, is now at 26%.

Posted by: Gjeebes 17.Aug.2017, 12:31 PM

Swedish work permits are a joke, but not as much as the ill equipped people administering them.

Posted by: Svedallas 17.Aug.2017, 01:08 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 17.Aug.2017, 01:31 PM) *
Swedish work permits are a joke, but not as much as the ill equipped people administering them.


+1

Posted by: the_dome 17.Aug.2017, 03:04 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 17.Aug.2017, 12:24 PM) *
Probably because it is harder to get a work permit in Germany. They have higher standards, compared to Sweden.

They don't just issue work permits because a person can do the job and can meet the minimum salary requirement. In order to get the German permit, they have to see if first the job cannot be filled by a resident, then an EU citizen. And if that cannot be done, they have a minimum educational requirement. (Which makes sense)

It makes Swedish work permits look like a joke.
But because of the weird changes, deportation rate because of their errors, is now at 26%.


Actually it is easier to get it in Germany. +if you speak German = super easy

Posted by: IndianInStockholm 17.Aug.2017, 03:47 PM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 16.Aug.2017, 02:06 PM) *
I hope you are right but I did not read this anywhere that the problem was due to not encashing the leaves and carrying all of them forward. Can you share a link where it says so so that I can also read it?


You are right, it's not mentioned anywhere about options for encashment. That's something I just gather from other comments in this forum, the basic premise being that it proves that company is not gaining anything by the employee not having taken the leaves since the extra has been paid out to the employee.

It would be nice to know what the Swedish vacation act states about paid leave encashment. Anyone care to throw light on that?

I found a link http://www.government.se/4ac87f/contentassets/eaf3467d4f484c9fb7274a067484c759/sfs-1977480-annual-leave-act

It has some sections about compensation, but it doesn't seem clearcut that you can be compensated (leave encashed) for days not taken.

Interestingly, any saved vacation days are generally mentioned clearly on most salary slips proving that the employer does not intend to gobble up those days and that it's available to the employee to take them when they choose.

Posted by: ITProf 17.Aug.2017, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (IndianInStockholm @ 17.Aug.2017, 02:47 PM) *
You are right, it's not mentioned anywhere about options for encashment. That's something I just gather from other comments in this forum, the basic premise being that it proves that company is not gaining anything by the employee not having taken the leaves since the extra has been paid out to the employee.


What i meant was that i did not read anywhere that those cases mentioned had anything to do with leaves encashment at end of semester year. And it did not say that they did this to carry more than usually allowed numbers over to the next year. It's possible i might have missed the article which mentioned this so that is why i asked how people knew that no leaves were encashed.

Posted by: IndianInStockholm 17.Aug.2017, 09:57 PM

QUOTE (ITProf @ 17.Aug.2017, 06:43 PM) *
What i meant was that i did not read anywhere that those cases mentioned had anything to do with leaves encashment at end of semester year. And it did not say that they did this to carry more than usually allowed numbers over to the next year. It's possible i might have missed the article which mentioned this so that is why i asked how people knew that no leaves were encashed.


Yes understood! You're right, leave encashment isn't mentioned in any of the articles anywhere. The thread just veered in that direction. It was perhaps presumptuous of me to assume that it's possible to encash them.

Posted by: LLHope 17.Aug.2017, 11:30 PM

QUOTE (IndianInStockholm @ 17.Aug.2017, 03:47 PM) *
It has some sections about compensation, but it doesn't seem clearcut that you can be compensated (leave encashed) for days not taken.

Yes it does, and the answer is yes and no. biggrin.gif

You have to understand the nuance of the vacation law. Think of it like this...

An employee has the right by law to take 25 days vacation per vacation year, paid and/or unpaid.
An employee earns during a working year paid vacations.
An employer can pay the employee the equivalent of the vacation days by agreement.
The employer cannot buy the right to vacation and the employee cannot sell it!

The only real time cashing-in vacation days is crystal clear is when an employee is leaving their job and has earned paid vacation that has not been used.

So, if an employer pays the employee for the paid vacation days during the vacation year, this does not stop the employee using their right to take 25 days vacation. Those 25 days the employee can take by law as unpaid.

An employer cannot be sure that an employee will be available by paying cash in exchange for vacation days, because the employee still has the right by law to take 25 days unpaid. This is one of the reasons why most employers do not offer to buy vacation days.

Compare this to Germany where paid vacation cannot be exchanged for cash it must be given in terms of time-off, by law. However, it is well known that many employers ignore this part of the law, and do quiet deals where they make it look like the employee was off on vacation but gave them cash in exchange for not taking vacation.

A couple of post mention that the cases highlighted did not mention compensation for vacation. Actually the one where the chap was paid 12500:- does involve that. The point is that in the first job he was paid under 13.000:-/m, and even after providing payslips, Migrationsverket could not see from those that he took or was compensated for the paid vacation he had owed to him.

For the other case the person saved 21 days paid vacation, law says 20 days are non-carry across. There is an exception in vacation law that allows you to carry across some of the 20 days that are normally restricted in cases of extreme business need, long term sickness during the year etc... however, any days in excess of 25 must be paid in compensation 1 month after the vacation year ends ...you cannot carry across for use during the following year.

Posted by: santacroce 18.Aug.2017, 07:24 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 17.Aug.2017, 11:30 PM) *
You have to understand the nuance of the vacation law. Think of it like this...


so how about you're stuck in the country for 10-12 months and you can not go anywhere because there's a risk of being denied the entry. In such cases I don't think they can force you to take a vacation.

Definition of holiday:
"an extended period of leisure and recreation, especially one spent away from home or in travelling."

Posted by: the_dome 18.Aug.2017, 07:43 AM

But that is the point, you keep on saving your hard earned vacation days so that you can spend them in some nice laguna drinking coctails and because you have been waiting 1000 years and collecting them, you get deported because it is brakin the law. And then at the same time you have your Swedish or EU colleagues that have 50-100 vacation days in their vacation bank (I am not kidding!) but they don't have any problems with anything because everyone's are equal in front of the law rolleyes.gif yeah right, so much about equality in Sweden. And at the same time during the whole chaos minister is busy with eating surströmming with a shovel and posing in front of cameras. It's summer so everyone chill out.
But I know that nothing significant will change regarding work permits.
In 2012 there was a case where the company has been bought by some other company and women got deported because she did not update MV with new organisation number even though she was doing exactly the same job. Every normal human that is sane would consider that minor mistake that is not worth of destroying someone's life. That ways in 2012 and now it is almost 2018 and the same things are happening with some additional reasons to be deported. MV wants you to do everything perfect + that your employer is perfect and that none of you EVER make a mistake even though you are only humans.
And then if you go through those rings of fire for 5 years and survive you become a citizen. And then none oof those things matters. Because then you become a different person. It is not you anymore, those rules do not apply to you über human.

Posted by: IndianInStockholm 18.Aug.2017, 08:54 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 17.Aug.2017, 10:30 PM) *
For the other case the person saved 21 days paid vacation, law says 20 days are non-carry across. There is an exception in vacation law that allows you to carry across some of the 20 days that are normally restricted in cases of extreme business need, long term sickness during the year etc... however, any days in excess of 25 must be paid in compensation 1 month after the vacation year ends ...you cannot carry across for use during the following year.


Thanks for the detailed explanation. In the end I'd just like to know this... Given that someone took only 10 out of 30 days last vacation in the previous vacation year (waiting and hoping for MV to pass a decision so that one could visit family back home), is there a way to rectify the situation as of today? Does the situation get resolved if the employer pays out the remaining days ASAP.

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Aug.2017, 12:12 PM

QUOTE (IndianInStockholm @ 18.Aug.2017, 07:54 AM) *
Thanks for the detailed explanation. In the end I'd just like to know this... Given that someone took only 10 out of 30 days last vacation in the previous vacation year (waiting and hoping for MV to pass a decision so that one could visit family back home), is there a way to rectify the situation as of today? Does the situation get resolved if the employer pays out the remaining days ASAP.

Hi,
You can start packing and selling your assets in Sweden NOW. When they decide to deport you, you have only 4 weeks to complete the task.

Sweden does not want worker like you. I don't understand why and I don't support their way of doing things, but you better have a head start in your relocation. Tayaab wasted 1.5 years fighting windmills before going with the wind.

I wish you all best,

Posted by: axiom 18.Aug.2017, 12:19 PM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 18.Aug.2017, 06:43 AM) *
But that is the point, you keep on saving your hard earned vacation days so that you can spend them in some nice laguna drinking coctails and because you have been waiting 1000 years and collecting them, you get deported because it is brakin the law. And then at the same time you have your Swedish or EU colleagues that have 50-100 vacation days in their vacation bank (I am not kidding!) but they don't have any problems with anything because everyone's are equal in front of the law rolleyes.gif yeah right, so much about equality in Sweden. And at the same time during the whole chaos minister is busy with eating surströmming with a shovel and posing in front of cameras. It's summer so everyone chill out.
But I know that nothing significant will change regarding work permits.
In 2012 there was a case where the company has been bought by some other company and women got deported because she did not update MV with new organisation number even though she was doing exactly the same job. Every normal human that is sane would consider that minor mistake that is not worth of destroying someone's life. That ways in 2012 and now it is almost 2018 and the same things are happening with some additional reasons to be deported. MV wants you to do everything perfect + that your employer is perfect and that none of you EVER make a mistake even though you are only humans.
And then if you go through those rings of fire for 5 years and survive you become a citizen. And then none oof those things matters. Because then you become a different person. It is not you anymore, those rules do not apply to you über human.


Saving 50 semster days is not that hard.

I get 30days, if I take the legal minimum of 20 days, I have 50days after 2years. If you get more than 30days then its even easier.

There are people in this thread LLHope m.fl. that to the extreme to explain:
1. How the semester rules work
2. Why in the cases that are now so infamous, the semester rules were grounds for refusal.

But no one wants to hear that because it doesn't fit the narrative we have of Sweden. That doesn't help anyone and only misinforms people that come here looking for information or help. As soon as someone asks a question about work permits, the answers are boilerplate, Run away from Sweden; they will soon deport you; leave for a better country.

This is from people who are fighting tooth and nail to stay in Sweden, it really can't be that bad.

Posted by: delta76 18.Aug.2017, 01:00 PM

QUOTE (axiom @ 18.Aug.2017, 11:19 AM) *
But no one wants to hear that because it doesn't fit the narrative we have of Sweden. That doesn't help anyone and only misinforms people that come here looking for information or help. As soon as someone asks a question about work permits, the answers are boilerplate, Run away from Sweden; they will soon deport you; leave for a better country.

True this smile.gif

One reason I admire LLHope is not only he/she is extremely knowledgeable, but also usually takes an extraordinary amount of time to write a long, detailed explanation which would help many people if they actually read.

Posted by: IndianInStockholm 18.Aug.2017, 01:28 PM

Guys (and not Wallace), what's the way to fix the problem? Can someone comment on that?
If it's so clear cut, I'm sure people and HR would have known already.

I don't think the companies these people work with are out to fleece their employees over 5-10 vacation days. It's not going to make a dent in their bottom line.

So again, how does one fix this now that this has come to the fore and people might be in this situation?

Posted by: IndianInStockholm 18.Aug.2017, 01:32 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 18.Aug.2017, 11:12 AM) *
Sweden does not want worker like you. I don't understand why and I don't support their way of doing things, but you better have a head start in your relocation. Tayaab wasted 1.5 years fighting windmills before going with the wind.

I wish you all best,


By the way Wallace, what's your situation? Are you in Sweden or outside? Were you lucky or unlucky or still waiting?

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Aug.2017, 02:34 PM

QUOTE (IndianInStockholm @ 18.Aug.2017, 01:32 PM) *
By the way Wallace, what's your situation? Are you in Sweden or outside? Were you lucky or unlucky or still waiting?

I am in S-country. Luck as no play here when you deal with such a dysfunctional country.

Posted by: clock_counter 18.Aug.2017, 02:41 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 18.Aug.2017, 03:34 PM) *
I am in S-country. Luck as no play here when you deal with such a dysfunctional country.


Just wondering why you encourage people to leave Sweden but yourself is still here?

Posted by: ITProf 18.Aug.2017, 02:46 PM

QUOTE (IndianInStockholm @ 18.Aug.2017, 01:28 PM) *
Guys (and not Wallace), what's the way to fix the problem? Can someone comment on that?
If it's so clear cut, I'm sure people and HR would have known already.

I don't think the companies these people work with are out to fleece their employees over 5-10 vacation days. It's not going to make a dent in their bottom line.

So again, how does one fix this now that this has come to the fore and people might be in this situation?


Are you saying that you (according to the question) might have carried forward 20 days of semester instead of 10 (as allowed from the total of 30) or did you get encashed for semester numbers 11-20 at end of semester year?

I cannot say whether encashing much later than end of semester year will count or not. Afterall, what MV will say or do cannot be predicted.

I actually sent this semester question to MV by email and their reply was as ambiguous as it could be. They simly wrote that it depends on the agreement with your Union. That's it! Nothing else.

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Aug.2017, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (clock_counter @ 18.Aug.2017, 02:41 PM) *
Just wondering why you encourage people to leave Sweden but yourself is still here?

I have been waiting for ~1 years for my extension. This had big negative impact on my career. I am waiting for the permit, so I can travel back and forth between civilization and Sweden to go to interview, rent an apartment, etc. an prepare a smooth landing. In the meantime I am sequestrated against my will in S-country. I wish that to no one.

I suggest that people, who are facing deportation because of the improper behavior of their employer, look at the most probable/only outcome and make inform decision to have a good life and reach their full potential in a good environment.

Posted by: axiom 19.Aug.2017, 10:43 AM

There is absolutely nothing forcing you to remain in Sweden, except for your desire to remain in Sweden.

Posted by: xeeshankh 19.Aug.2017, 06:20 PM

Wallace1837 no offense but I don't think anyone is looking for a suggestion on how should they plan their 'good life' ahead. I would keep my response limited to answering their questions (if I know shit) else its better to stay quiet.

I am also an affected by this work permit process, but there is no point in cursing Sweden and discouraging people all the time. Things have worked good for quite alot of people as well.

Posted by: wallace1837 20.Aug.2017, 08:39 AM

QUOTE (xeeshankh @ 19.Aug.2017, 05:20 PM) *
Wallace1837 no offense but I don't think anyone is looking for a suggestion on how should they plan their 'good life' ahead. I would keep my response limited to answering their questions (if I know shit) else its better to stay quiet.

I am also an affected by this work permit process, but there is no point in cursing Sweden and discouraging people all the time. Things have worked good for quite alot of people as well.

Realistic assessment need to be presented. Remember that there is ~7 person per days who get their denial of work permit extension because of their employer (present of previous) mistake. They will get no help from the union, nor their employer, nor any Swedish authorities. Quitting your life in Sweden in a 4 week notice, is really hard, so planning of a really possible outcome (20-25% will be denied) is more than needed.

I strongly believe than the actions of Sweden are more detrimental than merely pointing to those actions.

Posted by: the_dome 21.Aug.2017, 07:35 AM

QUOTE (axiom @ 19.Aug.2017, 11:43 AM) *
There is absolutely nothing forcing you to remain in Sweden, except for your desire to remain in Sweden.


I agree with Wallace, it is much easier when you actually have a valid permit to go to different countries and do interviews and arrange a new job. During the time he is waiting in Sweden he is not allowed to leave the country and do the interviews.
Serious potential employer will always want to conduct an interview in person.
Also, if he would leave Sweden right now he would not have job waiting for him in his home country most likely. This way he is saving money while waiting for a decision so that he can pay for those interview trip's back and forth. That is how every normal reasonable human thinks that is in similar situation.

Posted by: axiom 21.Aug.2017, 09:18 AM

That doesn't change the fact that nothing keeps him/her in Sweden expect for the free will to do so, regardless of the reason behind it. You get a feeling here that people are some sort of indentured servant, held against their will.

I understand the complication involved with visas/permits but thousands of people go through this process every month with no issue whatsoever: they along with their employers did the correct thing that was required as a condition to get and retain a work permit.

It's not some fascination that if you don't hold to your permit conditions it can be taken away, this exists in every single country, even Germany(better believe it).

I am however fascinated when employers shout to the press that their valued employee is being deported because they, the employers, couldn't be arsed to fix the documents required to comply with their permits. And some person are renewing the permit to work for the same employer! Think how many other ways they are prob screwing you over?

And who looks like the bad cop, MSVT, that made it plain from minute you look at the application forms: These are the conditions you need to meet. It was never really secret. I can understand if it was a new rule or something they pulled from their hat or just made up as they went along, but this has never been the case.

Posted by: the_dome 21.Aug.2017, 09:34 AM

You did not read what I wrote or you did not understand. I don't have the energy to explain it to you how normal humans that are trying to plan their future/ good life works. Maybe one day you will understand

Posted by: delta76 21.Aug.2017, 09:43 AM

@axiom: if some people just hate Sweden and want to leave, let them - there is no point talking them to change their minds.

However, I agree that practicing their right of freedom of speech anywhere, anytime, does not make them a nice or reasonable person. Just ignore them.

Posted by: BhuBhuKaZoo 21.Aug.2017, 01:46 PM

QUOTE (delta76 @ 21.Aug.2017, 10:43 AM) *
@axiom: if some people just hate Sweden and want to leave, let them - there is no point talking them to change their minds.

However, I agree that practicing their right of freedom of speech anywhere, anytime, does not make them a nice or reasonable person. Just ignore them.



I would concur. Sometimes, people just need to vent or have an issue that they just wish to pursue.

Posted by: axiom 21.Aug.2017, 04:18 PM

All that I understand, most people on this forum have been through the migration process, it’s not an alien thing. Being faced with having to leave Sweden after you made it your home is not by any measure and warm experience. People here are not fools they understand this.

But there are at the same time many people who come here looking for help and advice that in reality have nothing to worry about, and have slim to no chance of being placed in a similar position. There is no need for the scaremongering. It is not a reasonable thing to do. They shouldn’t feel insecure with no meaningful grounds. It’s not fair to them.

Furthermore, more people should vent their issues at their employers that cheated them. There is a feeling that MSVT should punish them, make your voice heard to them as well !

Posted by: wallace1837 23.Aug.2017, 10:31 AM

More coverage of the deportation rage:
https://www.svd.se/utvisas-trots-bra-jobb-svart-att-acceptera

Posted by: max0938 23.Aug.2017, 10:32 AM

I think it's better to leave this country. I wouldn't suggest for any tech people to come over here otherwise you could fall in a disparate situations like us

Today news - Migration Agency still finding very small reasons for deporting highly skilled people. https://www.svd.se/utvisas-trots-bra-jobb-svart-att-acceptera

Posted by: hatim 23.Aug.2017, 09:08 PM

QUOTE (antes @ 23.Aug.2017, 01:14 PM) *
How is it possible that a person moved to Sweden i slutet av 1990-talet and still doesn't have a permanent residency at least?

OBS: No judgement, just wondering.

Could be that he moved on a diplomatic dependent visa? They are not entitled to residency from what I know.

Posted by: xeeshankh 24.Aug.2017, 04:54 AM

My work permit was rejected recently stating i dont meet the minimum salary requirements as per union collective agreement.

I have actually received much more salary than what was as per collective agreement/my job contract, its just that my employer has declared a big portion of it as a tax free income in my income statement stating i was here on a business trip. The laws state it should be a taxable salary.

Pretty confused on how should I proceed now because the employer has done legal tax declaration and saved some money, but it screwed me.

Posted by: hatim 24.Aug.2017, 05:33 AM

QUOTE (xeeshankh @ 24.Aug.2017, 05:54 AM) *
My work permit was rejected recently stating i dont meet the minimum salary requirements as per union collective agreement.

I have actually received much more salary than what was as per collective agreement/my job contract, its just that my employer has declared a big portion of it as a tax free income in my income statement stating i was here on a business trip. The laws state it should be a taxable salary.

Pretty confused on how should I proceed now because the employer has done legal tax declaration and saved some money, but it screwed me.

How long is/was your assignment here in Sweden? If it is more than 6 months then you have tax liability in Sweden.

Posted by: xeeshankh 24.Aug.2017, 05:46 AM

My assignment was 11 out of 12 months for that year.

My employment contract says its a temporary assignment of 2 years, maybe that's why they are allowed to show it as a business trip and get tax relief ?

if that 6 month thing is right then that can be the only way to fight case by asking employer to correct tax returns and trying luck.

Let me know your thoughts on it.

Posted by: xeeshankh 24.Aug.2017, 05:48 AM

To be more specific, they have paid tax but have taken relief in 2 things

Since the accommodation was provided free by employer, they didnt include it in my taxable income.
They took 110 krones per day tax exempt on my per diem as per business trip law.

Posted by: hatim 24.Aug.2017, 06:25 AM

QUOTE (xeeshankh @ 24.Aug.2017, 06:48 AM) *
To be more specific, they have paid tax but have taken relief in 2 things

Since the accommodation was provided free by employer, they didnt include it in my taxable income.
They took 110 krones per day tax exempt on my per diem as per business trip law.


Well you need to consult a tax attorney. But you can not have a business trip to Sweden for 11 months. For tax purposes you were a resident.

https://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp?url=files/sve/eng/i02.asp

Posted by: kumam 24.Aug.2017, 07:39 AM

Even free accommodation has to be included in taxable salary. My previous employer did provide me free accommodation and they included it in my taxable salary in Sweden. I was making frequent business trips on business visa before moving to Sweden on a wp in the same year and my previous employer counted those days as taxable and paid taxes on my salary and per diem for that year. As long as you are crossing 183 days limit in a financial year, you/your employer has to pay taxes on all income and benefits

Posted by: xeeshankh 25.Aug.2017, 07:18 AM

Thank you all for the comments, appreciate it.

I will consult a lawyer and also asking my employer to modify the tax returns and put this taxable income there. Lets see how supportive will they be.

even if they agree to correct it, my worry is that the process will take a long time for tax to be reflected in KU10 and I am not sure if migrationsverket will even consider it.

Posted by: axiom 25.Aug.2017, 07:32 AM

QUOTE (xeeshankh @ 25.Aug.2017, 06:18 AM) *
Thank you all for the comments, appreciate it.

I will consult a lawyer and also asking my employer to modify the tax returns and put this taxable income there. Lets see how supportive will they be.

even if they agree to correct it, my worry is that the process will take a long time for tax to be reflected in KU10 and I am not sure if migrationsverket will even consider it.


How happy will skatteverket be? You have signed all your declarations up to this point as being correct and that all taxes are paid.

Posted by: xeeshankh 25.Aug.2017, 09:13 AM

That is right, I have signed my declaration. But I was new in Sweden on an assignment and was fully not aware of what things are taxable and what are not, it was my employer who had the responsibility to file it as per the contract.


You can correct the tax returns back dated up to 5 years, maybe that's what this option is for. Atleast I know I have not done anything intentionally wrong.

Posted by: wallace1837 29.Aug.2017, 12:25 PM

More coverage of the https://www.svd.se/kompetensutvisningar-kan-stoppas-i-september/i/utvalt/om/kompetensutvisningarna.

Posted by: wallace1837 4.Sep.2017, 06:51 PM

More coverage of the migrationsverket https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/regioner/stockholm/kompetensutvisningarna-ar-katastrof-och-komplett-vansinne_682897.html

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 4.Sep.2017, 08:52 PM

13 pages of rage...Is there still a point to be made or not???

Posted by: hatim 4.Sep.2017, 09:11 PM

I guess the "rage" continues.

Posted by: wallace1837 4.Sep.2017, 09:22 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 4.Sep.2017, 08:52 PM) *
13 pages of rage...Is there still a point to be made or not???

We are just scratching the surface. Remember that there a roughly https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=446030305781701&id=263441924040541 due to small mistake by the employer (or previous employer). I guess that it is not clear enough how unstable working immigrant life is here, so no, 13 pages does not cover it yet. People are still moving here and are still seeking work permit. Imagine how a great life they could have in they had know and chose a a civilized country instead of Sweden!

Posted by: wallace1837 19.Sep.2017, 03:23 PM

More coverage of the https://www.breakit.se/artikel/5019/efter-migrationsverkets-beslut-nu-far-justin-phelps-inte-jobba, https://www.thelocal.se/20161006/sweden-is-crippling-its-ability-to-innovate-and-keep-its-edge [2].

They are old, but still relevant.

Posted by: wallace1837 19.Sep.2017, 06:22 PM

Newer coverage of the https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/kompetensutvisningarna-staller-till-det-rejalt_683870.html.

Posted by: wallace1837 19.Sep.2017, 06:32 PM

Migrationsverket is now also targeting fee paying students: https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/migrationsverket-stoppar-allt-fler-toppstudenter_684423.html . It looks like they Migrationsverket does not like people contributing to the Swedish society (fee paying students and tax paying foreign workers).

Posted by: the_dome 19.Sep.2017, 07:45 PM

No, they prefer these cases:

http://www.friatider.se/nacka-k-bost-der-i-saltsj-baden-f-r-14-miljoner-t-man-med-tre-fruar

But Swedes can tolerate anything and once they kick out all of the tax paying immigrants, native swedes will pay apartments for guys with 3,5,10 wifes and 16,50,300 children

Posted by: Qasqot75 20.Sep.2017, 03:48 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 19.Sep.2017, 07:32 PM) *
Migrationsverket is now also targeting fee paying students: https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/migrationsverket-stoppar-allt-fler-toppstudenter_684423.html . It looks like they Migrationsverket does not like people contributing to the Swedish society (fee paying students and tax paying foreign workers).

I donot blame Migrationsverket for refusing some fee paying students because i have seen a number of asylum seeker who came through that route.These countries listed even Phd students come through student visa to seek asylum too imagine that.

Posted by: wallace1837 21.Sep.2017, 09:17 AM

More coverage of https://www.svd.se/alliansens-plan-sa-ska-utvisningarna-stoppas.

Now they want to let people stay, but they forgot about people who want to leave. Come on, give them proper paperwork so they can leave the country without facing a Schengen ban (because they stayed without proper paperwork while migrationsverket took years to [not even] process their application).

Posted by: the_dome 21.Sep.2017, 12:14 PM

Yeah they were sucking cocks during the whole summer and eating surströmming while people were kicked out. Now they will continue preparations which were ongoing for a couple of years now.
They will never change their laws

Posted by: voice_of_reason 21.Sep.2017, 12:37 PM

Johanna Jönsson is my hero!
She is one of those few in Riksdagen who consistently fight against the whole deportation madness.
I will never forget the she was the only MP who came to our demonstration on Sergels torg!

As soon as I am able to vote, Johanna, you get my vote.

Posted by: hatim 21.Sep.2017, 12:50 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 21.Sep.2017, 10:17 AM) *
More coverage of https://www.svd.se/alliansens-plan-sa-ska-utvisningarna-stoppas.

Now they want to let people stay, but they forgot about people who want to leave. Come on, give them proper paperwork so they can leave the country without facing a Schengen ban (because they stayed without proper paperwork while migrationsverket took years to [not even] process their application).


Who has gotten EU ban for waiting for a permit if I may ask? Kindly explain?

Do you mean the following:
https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Protection-and-asylum-in-Sweden/When-you-have-received-a-decision-on-your-asylum-application/If-your-application-is-refused/Re-entry-ban.html

Posted by: wallace1837 21.Sep.2017, 01:21 PM

QUOTE (hatim @ 21.Sep.2017, 12:50 PM) *
Who has gotten EU ban for waiting for a permit if I may ask? Kindly explain?

Do you mean the following:
https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Protection-and-asylum-in-Sweden/When-you-have-received-a-decision-on-your-asylum-application/If-your-application-is-refused/Re-entry-ban.html

http://www.euro-dollar-currency.com/overstaying_schengen_visa.htm

Border agent are not forced to verify your story (i.e. you applied for a work permit extension some years ago and still wait for the answer). It is the responsibility of the traveler to show valid identification (i.e. passport and residence card).
https://polisen.se/en/Languages/Laws-and-Regulations/Temporary-border-controls/

You need to be able to show your residency card whenever you are controlled in any Schengen state. The consequence for not taking being able to present a valid residence permit is described above (1-3 years entry ban and various dollar amount fine).

I am currently tolerated in Sweden, with cut benefits for me and my family (while I wait for work permit extension, that I asked before the previous one expired). Better hope I don't get sick...

Posted by: hatim 21.Sep.2017, 08:00 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 21.Sep.2017, 02:21 PM) *
http://www.euro-dollar-currency.com/overstaying_schengen_visa.htm

Border agent are not forced to verify your story (i.e. you applied for a work permit extension some years ago and still wait for the answer). It is the responsibility of the traveler to show valid identification (i.e. passport and residence card).
https://polisen.se/en/Languages/Laws-and-Regulations/Temporary-border-controls/

You need to be able to show your residency card whenever you are controlled in any Schengen state. The consequence for not taking being able to present a valid residence permit is described above (1-3 years entry ban and various dollar amount fine).

I am currently tolerated in Sweden, with cut benefits for me and my family (while I wait for work permit extension, that I asked before the previous one expired). Better hope I don't get sick...


I understand. This is definitely bad and if some one had half a brain in the parliament they would fix it in the legislation. They can make some sort of re-entry permit like Denmark. Not sure why some people insist it is the most difficult thing under the sun, thousands of tourists get permission to enter Sweden on a yearly basis I believe. MV knows how to issue temporary travel documents (technically).

What I initially read from your post that one gets EU entry ban just by waiting (which is obviously not what you meant). Some air carriers won't even let you board the aircraft without a proper permit (depending on your passport)

Posted by: the_dome 22.Sep.2017, 05:57 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 21.Sep.2017, 02:21 PM) *
http://www.euro-dollar-currency.com/overstaying_schengen_visa.htm

Border agent are not forced to verify your story (i.e. you applied for a work permit extension some years ago and still wait for the answer). It is the responsibility of the traveler to show valid identification (i.e. passport and residence card).
https://polisen.se/en/Languages/Laws-and-Regulations/Temporary-border-controls/

You need to be able to show your residency card whenever you are controlled in any Schengen state. The consequence for not taking being able to present a valid residence permit is described above (1-3 years entry ban and various dollar amount fine).

I am currently tolerated in Sweden, with cut benefits for me and my family (while I wait for work permit extension, that I asked before the previous one expired). Better hope I don't get sick...


If you get sick, doctors will take you in & fix you. Especially if you have private insurance through your workplace.
On the other hand however försäkringskassan will give you their middle finger and they will tell you that you are paperless bastard and you won't get a penny for paying your taxes those whole years.

And then some leftist activist with flowers in their hair and guitar in their hands tells me how world is a cruel place where in comparison, Sweden is promoting equality for everyone.
How is that equality?

Equality is a myth. The only thing that is sure is that there are those that are equal and the others that are a bit more equal (if you know what I mean).

That is why you should take care of yourself and not depend on government to help you,i.e.you should get a private insurance for you and your family.

I did not know those things but now I do.
Life in Sweden taught me how to survive.

Posted by: wallace1837 22.Sep.2017, 07:34 AM

QUOTE (hatim @ 21.Sep.2017, 07:00 PM) *
I understand. This is definitely bad and if some one had half a brain in the parliament they would fix it in the legislation. They can make some sort of re-entry permit like Denmark. Not sure why some people insist it is the most difficult thing under the sun, thousands of tourists get permission to enter Sweden on a yearly basis I believe. MV knows how to issue temporary travel documents (technically).

What I initially read from your post that one gets EU entry ban just by waiting (which is obviously not what you meant). Some air carriers won't even let you board the aircraft without a proper permit (depending on your passport)

You don't get banned from waiting in Sweden. You may get ban by trying to get out, or by being controlled in any Schengen state (except Sweden).

Posted by: the_dome 24.Sep.2017, 06:32 PM

Here is some more:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/2Q2bl/topprogrammerare-riskerar-utvisning--efter-forsakringsmiss

Posted by: flaneur 24.Sep.2017, 08:41 PM

It's really disgusting that people are being deported for such irrelevant reasons that could be fixed afterwards, but I can't help but think about the following process:

1. YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO HAVE THOSE INSURANCES BECAUSE YOU WILL BE DEPORTED IF YOU DON'T HAVE THEM.

2. YOU TAKE THE JOB WITHOUT CARING IF YOU ACTUALLY HAD GOTTEN THE INSURANCES WITHOUT WHICH YOU WILL BE DEPORTED (AS 1243499273933 OTHERS BEFORE YOU).

3. YOU GET DEPORTED BECAUSE YOU LACK INSURANCES FOR WHICH YOU KNEW YOU'D NEED TO HAVE TO AVOID BEING DEPORTED, BUT DIDN'T CARE TO ASK / TELL YOUR FUCKING EMPLOYER ABOUT THEM.

4. YOU CALL AFTONBLADET TO PARADE WITH A PITY PARTY.

So I can't help but wonder, do these people actually care enough?

I don't want to brag around here but I have specifically told my employer that I want to have all those insurances from the day one of my employment. It's like, you can't blame the system if you have to follow it. If they say you need an insurance, then you need a fucking insurance and it's your fucking responsibility to think about it. It is absolutely ridiculous that they will deport you for such a retarded thing but YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT so why don't you think about it before it happens?

It's the same thing with that Arbetsförmedlingen bullshit. It needs to be advertised. THE END! Make sure that it was advertised, tell your employer to advertise it before starting the application process or go and fuck yourself. I mean, it's really as simple as that.

Posted by: voice_of_reason 24.Sep.2017, 09:05 PM

@flaneur
Firstly, you are blaming a victim. Usually this approach is not considered reasonable in a civilized discussion.

Secondly, it actually goes like following:

2. You take a job and your employer states in the contract that everything is fine, and you feel safe because even if employer decides to breach the contract, knowingly or by mistake, you would not suffer FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVEN'T DONE!

Only later, after the bad news were delivered to you, you start studying the relevant Swedish laws yourself and find out that you can and will actually be punished for things that your employer is doing and which are absolutely out of your control, UNLIKE ALL THE REST OF CIVILIZED COUNTRIES.

Thirdly, of course nowadays everybody makes sure the job is properly advertised and the insurances are being paid. We are talking here about those cases when, for example, insurance was not paid during probation period and it was common practice, and Migrationsverket accepted it, so it was ok at the time it was done!
You can hardly blame anyone for doing something that was accepted by regulating authority itself.

Now they have changed the rules. Retroactively.

Posted by: flaneur 24.Sep.2017, 09:08 PM

QUOTE (voice_of_reason @ 24.Sep.2017, 10:05 PM) *
@flaneur
Firstly, you are blaming a victim. Usually this approach is not considered reasonable in a civilized discussion.

Secondly, it actually goes like following:

2. You take a job and your employer states in the contract that everything is fine, and you feel safe because even if employer decides to breach the contract, knowingly or by mistake, you would not suffer FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVEN'T DONE!

Only later, after the bad news were delivered to you, you start studying the relevant Swedish laws yourself and find out that you can and will actually be punished for things that your employer is doing and which are absolutely out of your control, UNLIKE ALL THE REST OF CIVILIZED COUNTRIES.


First of all, he / she is not a victim. He / she is irresponsible.
He / she was employed based on the fact that his / her skills aren't available in the EU so in the eyes of the law the victim is his / her employer. Of course, this is too abstract to understand, which is why everyone should be aware of the process and take care of all the documents needed.

Second of all, I know how it goes, never had a problem with it. There is no feeling safe. You know the consequences of not having those insurances and therefore you can't rely on your pathetic feeling of being safe - you ask for fucking confirmations / insurance certificates before you start working.

Posted by: voice_of_reason 24.Sep.2017, 09:22 PM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 24.Sep.2017, 10:08 PM) *
There is no feeling safe.


Can not agree with that.
Counterexample: do you really check the breaks, the engine, the lights, the transmission and all other parts of the car when you are taking a taxi?
I doubt it. I certainly do not do. I by default assume that the fact that taxi driver is accepting me as a passenger confirms that they have taken care of all those checks.
Furthermore, if a car had a mechanical problem and was involved in an accident because of that, please find me a country with a law where you as a passenger would be responsible for that, and not a taxi driver?

PS: please also see my third point about retroactive change of rules.
I assume you have come here after the change, that is after december 2015.

Posted by: flaneur 24.Sep.2017, 09:24 PM

QUOTE (voice_of_reason @ 24.Sep.2017, 10:22 PM) *
Can not agree with that.
Counterexample: do you really check the breaks, the engine, the lights, the transmission and all other parts of the car when you are taking a taxi?
I doubt it. I certainly do not do. I by default assume that the fact that taxi driver is accepting me as a passenger confirms that they have taken care of all those checks.
Furthermore, if a car had a mechanical problem and was involved in an accident because of that, please find me a country with a law where you as a passenger would be responsible for that, and not a taxi driver?

PS: please also see my third point about retroactive change of rules.
I assume you have come here after the change, that is after december 2015.


I came here in 2013. I saw your post - complete shitload.

Posted by: voice_of_reason 24.Sep.2017, 09:31 PM

Do you challenge the fact that they have changed the rules retroactively?

Posted by: flaneur 24.Sep.2017, 09:42 PM

Honey, you might wanna consider taking an IQ test.

First of all, you don’t even grasp the whole concept of employing someone outside of the EU if you think that, in these cases, an employee is a sole victim.

Second of all, it doesn’t matter what the rules are, if they’re changed or not, you’re informed at all times about what do you need to show in order to get the work / extension of the work permit. It is your, and only your responsibility to take care of those documents and even to remind your employer that certain things need to be fulfilled in order for your work permit to be valid.

In most of these cases, the employees didn’t even have the insurances, so it’s not like their employer suddenly stopped paying for them. Their employer didn’t even register them for a specific insurance because it was probably the last thing on his / her mind.

This taxi example is as stupid as fuck, sorry.

Posted by: flaneur 24.Sep.2017, 10:05 PM

And for the record, I already said that I think it's disgusting that people aren't allowed to correct those mistakes afterwards, but don't call the newspapers to parade about something that was your responsibility.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 24.Sep.2017, 11:00 PM

Fifteen pages, now...

Has it been explained how the no exception to paperwork errors/omissions came about???

Someone, somewhere must have issued a no exception directive, that must be followed to the proverbial "letter"...

And, what was the reason for it???

Posted by: Case officer 24.Sep.2017, 11:39 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 25.Sep.2017, 12:00 AM) *
Someone, somewhere must have issued a no exception directive, that must be followed to the proverbial "letter"...

And, what was the reason for it???

It came about when an American woman came to Sweden and agreed to work for less than 13 000 kronor per month:

https://lifos.migrationsverket.se/dokument?documentSummaryId=34633

Posted by: axiom 25.Sep.2017, 06:31 AM

QUOTE (voice_of_reason @ 24.Sep.2017, 08:31 PM) *
Do you challenge the fact that they have changed the rules retroactively?


What rules were changed retroactively?

As far as I understand it, no rules were ever changed. What changed, however, is the enforcement of the rules. Prior to 2015 MSVT was more or less relaxed in how it applied the rules. However one person, an American, stretched this a little too far and it went to the appeals courts which in turn pretty much made a decision which bounded MSVT's hands on how it applied the rules, forcing it to apply the rules in the strictest sense.

All the rules about insurances, etc have been there since 2008.

Posted by: axiom 25.Sep.2017, 06:37 AM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 19.Sep.2017, 06:45 PM) *
No, they prefer these cases:

http://www.friatider.se/nacka-k-bost-der-i-saltsj-baden-f-r-14-miljoner-t-man-med-tre-fruar

But Swedes can tolerate anything and once they kick out all of the tax paying immigrants, native swedes will pay apartments for guys with 3,5,10 wifes and 16,50,300 children


You don't want to be qouting these guys, believe me they don't want you here either. Besides there are many people on WP living in hyresrätter, don't you think the kommun bought/build some of these at some point in time? You children may one day need apartments, social support and I would not like anyone to differentiate between them and "native Swedes". It's a very slippery slope, avoid it.

Posted by: wallace1837 25.Sep.2017, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 24.Sep.2017, 08:42 PM) *
Second of all, it doesn’t matter what the rules are, if they’re changed or not, [...]

Welcome to Sweden!

Posted by: wallace1837 25.Sep.2017, 08:57 AM

QUOTE (Case officer @ 24.Sep.2017, 10:39 PM) *
It came about when an American woman came to Sweden and agreed to work for less than 13 000 kronor per month:

https://lifos.migrationsverket.se/dokument?documentSummaryId=34633

Someone does not get paid enough, then they deport other people who did not take enough vacation. It is really hard to follow that logic. Maybe that is why there is now 15 pages about this.

Posted by: wallace1837 25.Sep.2017, 09:09 AM

Dude A work for a crooked employer who lied about the insurance they he will provide. Dude A decides to change job to go work for a non crooked employer when he finds out about the lies. Dude A and the non crooked employer thrive in their business. Then Dude A gets deported because its previous crooked employer behavior (i.e. not providing insurance and lying about it). Dude A and non crooked employer are mad. They feel they are punished for a fault committed by someone else (i.e. crooked employer). In the meantime crooked employer is continuing to lie about insurances he provides to its foreign employees.

Then on thelocal forum there is one camp that says this is the way it should be, and another camp who want to change the law so that liars and crooked employers get punished for the trouble they cause. I guess we will never agree, but the fact that there is over 37000 view on this thread, at least more people are aware of the way Sweden punish the victim and how foreign employees are treated.

Posted by: wallace1837 25.Sep.2017, 09:26 AM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 24.Sep.2017, 05:32 PM) *
Here is some more:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/2Q2bl/topprogrammerare-riskerar-utvisning--efter-forsakringsmiss

Nice find!

Posted by: flaneur 25.Sep.2017, 09:39 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 25.Sep.2017, 10:09 AM) *
Dude A work for a crooked employer who lied about the insurance they he will provide. Dude A decides to change job to go work for a non crooked employer when he finds out about the lies. Dude A and the non crooked employer thrive in their business. Then Dude A gets deported because its previous crooked employer behavior (i.e. not providing insurance and lying about it). Dude A and non crooked employer are mad. They feel they are punished for a fault committed by someone else (i.e. crooked employer). In the meantime crooked employer is continuing to lie about insurances he provides to its foreign employees.

Then on thelocal forum there is one camp that says this is the way it should be, and another camp who want to change the law so that liars and crooked employers get punished for the trouble they cause. I guess we will never agree, but the fact that there is over 37000 view on this thread, at least more people are aware of the way Sweden punish the victim and how foreign employees are treated.


Moron much?

That is why you're supposed to ASK for insurance certificates before your start date so that you can be sure that your employer isn't lying about insurance registration.
Do I have to draw it for you? No wonder people get deported if they're as retarded.

Posted by: flaneur 25.Sep.2017, 10:04 AM

Scenario 1:

You come to the job interview knowing about all the rules that you need to fulfill in order to get your work permit. You tell your employer that you need a work permit and in order to get it - you need to be covered by specific insurances. You tell your employer that you want your insurance certificates issued to you from the day one of your employment. The employers in Sweden often don't even know that Canada is outside of EU, not to mention Eastern Europe and similar. You don't leave everything up to your employer, instead you take the full responsibility for all the documents you know you will need to have at some point in time when you're about to apply for the extension. You need to think about it because it is your work permit in question.

Even though in the eyes of the law it's the employer who is the victim because the employer will loose a skilled worker who "isn't available to be found in the EU", but this is beyond bullshit and you know that in the real life - you will be the victim so cut the crap and take care of yoruself.

Scenario 2:

You come to the job interview knowing about all the rules that you need to fulfill in order to get your work permit. You tell your employer that you need a work permit and in order to get it - you need to be covered by specific insurances. You don't tell your employer that you want your insurance certificates issued to you from the day one of your employment because what the hell the employer would fix it. You choose to believe your employer. You want to be a pink, fluffy, shy unicorn who doesn't want to be too pushy because you think that all your employer has to think about in life and business are your fucking insurances and therefore, when it doesn't turn to be that way, you find yourself in a deep shithole.

It is absolutely disgusting that people aren't allowed to correct the mistakes. It is even more disgusting when the employers lie about insurance registrations. BUT THE MOST DISGUSTING THING OF ALL ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THEIR OWN FUCKING PAPERWORK IN TIME AND THEN CALL AFTONBLADET TO TALK ABOUT HOW OH TERRIBLE THIS IS, THEY DIDN'T KNOW, IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. WELL IT IS YOUR FUCKING FAULT FOR NOT BEING RESPONSIBLE TO STAND UP FOR YOUR FUCKING SELF BEFORE STARTING TO WORK, ONLY THIKING ABOUT MONEY, KNOWING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU DON'T.

Posted by: wallace1837 25.Sep.2017, 08:14 PM

More coverage of the https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/18-arig-ensamkommande-tog-sitt-liv/&prev=search. This one is not about a worker, but it is worth mentioning.

Posted by: the_dome 25.Sep.2017, 09:24 PM

Their long waiting times are really destroying lives.
Year 2017 us for the second time record low year when it comes to new applications but still they maintain the waiting times above average.
The reason for that is because if they would process all the applications in time, they wouldn't be left with any tasks to do and then most of them would be fired.
This way they maintain the imaginary chaos and long waiting times so that they can spin on their chairs during the office hours and get paid for doing so.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 25.Sep.2017, 10:16 PM

I think that is true of all "civil service" employees, everywhere...

Posted by: the_dome 26.Sep.2017, 05:53 AM

I disagree. You should check it in Germany, UK and Australia, public service is top notch. I know that this list goes on.

Posted by: hatim 26.Sep.2017, 07:09 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 25.Sep.2017, 11:16 PM) *
I think that is true of all "civil service" employees, everywhere...

My personal experience with Swedish tax office has been very good. All the things you would expect from a highly developed country are practiced.

It is my understanding that skattaverket went through a major overhaul some years ago. They were rather bad before. But then again, most people in Sweden agree that a good tax system is good for all. I am not sure who wants to pay for a better immigration system.

It is true, incompetent people can be found all over the planet. Question is: what are we to do?

Posted by: peca 27.Sep.2017, 11:26 AM

[quote name='flaneur' post='918510']Scenario 1:

You're totally wrong. You have no chance to realize what are the insurance requirements 4 years ago which are not even written in MV website as well as this forum.

Posted by: BhuBhuKaZoo 27.Sep.2017, 01:12 PM

QUOTE (peca @ 27.Sep.2017, 12:26 PM) *
You're totally wrong. You have no chance to realize what are the insurance requirements 4 years ago which are not even written in MV website as well as this forum.


I must say, although I don't necessarily agree with the "ahem" language Flaneur uses - I must agree that the scenarios are good examples of the predicaments faced by people and there own laxness.

And I also disagree with the notion that the Civil Service is better in other countries. It is rather slow here, this is a given but generally, it is more thorough I find compared to the U.K and Germany for that matter. This maybe possibly to the volume but I believe it speaks more that the rules are enforced much more here in Sweden than in other countries.

Back to the original reply to this - Indeed fundamentally, although you may not be aware of the exact rules or regulations required, surely it is your responsibility no? if you are wanting to work in Sweden, to thrive in a foreign, developed country, you would think that these people would research what is entailed in gaining residency in said country correct?

I think many people give immigrants (whether from the EU or outside) far too little credit in terms of how much they know and choose to ignore while here. In the U.K. people are generally aware they require insurance and other legitimate assurances to work there but they cost money, time and register you with the authorities. So many skirt the rules hoping to avoid them before settling and accepting them for fear of deportation.

Regardless of the actions, it is the employee's responsibility to do everything they must to gain residency and therefore have all the insurances to stay. Simply replying "I didn't know" shows complete recklessness by the individual to put themselves in that position.

Responsibility is the key word here. If you come to Sweden legitimately to work and study here, then I believe anyone would ask the simple question - "What must I do to ensure I stay here?".

If you don't, then who is to blame than yourself first and foremost?

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 27.Sep.2017, 02:26 PM

Now that we have two posters that have hammered home the reality that it is the responsibility of those filing documents, that the documents and all that pertains to them is true and accurate...and again...it is their responsibility to do so, then maybe we can close this thread with that simple solution...

We do feel for those that got caught up in "Red Tape" problems...

Posted by: flaneur 27.Sep.2017, 02:52 PM

https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/fragor/arbetskraftsinvandring/nyckelmedarbetare-bor-i-tvaa-riskerar-utvisning_685522.html

WOW! Never heard of such case before.

Posted by: intrepidfox 27.Sep.2017, 03:04 PM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 27.Sep.2017, 01:52 PM) *
https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/fragor/arbetskraftsinvandring/nyckelmedarbetare-bor-i-tvaa-riskerar-utvisning_685522.html

WOW! Never heard of such case before.


Wish someone would deport you

Posted by: flaneur 27.Sep.2017, 03:05 PM

QUOTE (intrepidfox @ 27.Sep.2017, 04:04 PM) *
Wish someone would deport you


Dream on! smile.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Sep.2017, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 27.Sep.2017, 01:52 PM) *
https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/fragor/arbetskraftsinvandring/nyckelmedarbetare-bor-i-tvaa-riskerar-utvisning_685522.html

WOW! Never heard of such case before.

I can see that people will blame the guy who is being deported because he didn't follow the regulation. Since the regulation is pretty clear: "You have to have a home of sufficient size and standard for all of you to live in. For two adults without children a home is big enough if it has a kitchen or kitchenette and at least one room. If children are going to live in the home, there must be more rooms. Two children can share a bedroom." [https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Moving-to-someone-in-Sweden/Close-relative/For-the-relative-in-Sweden.html]

Migrationsverket is making up regulations and applying them rigorously.

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Sep.2017, 03:20 PM

More coverage ofhttps://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/dubbelbestraffning-av-utlandska-talanger_683624.html.

Posted by: axiom 27.Sep.2017, 04:57 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 27.Sep.2017, 02:15 PM) *
I can see that people will blame the guy who is being deported because he didn't follow the regulation. Since the regulation is pretty clear: "You have to have a home of sufficient size and standard for all of you to live in. For two adults without children a home is big enough if it has a kitchen or kitchenette and at least one room. If children are going to live in the home, there must be more rooms. Two children can share a bedroom." [https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Moving-to-someone-in-Sweden/Close-relative/For-the-relative-in-Sweden.html]

Migrationsverket is making up regulations and applying them rigorously.


Actually MSVT didn’t make up the maintenance requirements, the government did. MSVT however decides what is a minimum requirement as they have the task of interpreting the rules.

Posted by: the_dome 27.Sep.2017, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 27.Sep.2017, 04:20 PM) *
More coverage ofhttps://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/dubbelbestraffning-av-utlandska-talanger_683624.html.


Yeah but this is well known for ages now.
To prevent this from happening you need to appeal until that period is 6+ months and then you leave and reapply smile.gif I already asked MV that and that is what they told me to do.

Posted by: john.boy 27.Sep.2017, 06:21 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 27.Sep.2017, 03:15 PM) *
For two adults without children a home is big enough if it has a kitchen or kitchenette and at least one room. If children are going to live in the home, there must be more rooms. Two children can share a bedroom." [https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Moving-to-someone-in-Sweden/Close-relative/For-the-relative-in-Sweden.html]

2 adults plus 3 children do not meet the requirement with a 2 room apartment. 2 rooms = 1 bedroom. They need a minimum of 2 bedrooms, 1 for adults and 1 for the children to share.

Posted by: xeeshankh 28.Sep.2017, 08:30 AM

QUOTE (the_dome @ 27.Sep.2017, 06:28 PM) *
Yeah but this is well known for ages now.
To prevent this from happening you need to appeal until that period is 6+ months and then you leave and reapply smile.gif I already asked MV that and that is what they told me to do.



Is there a law stating any such rule ? when Migrationsverket rejects an application, they have to state the reference of law.

Posted by: the_dome 28.Sep.2017, 10:23 AM

No, it is praxis. You can fight them but they will always win.
You appeal MV decision to MV court. Of course that they will rule in favour of their own people. We are just a bunch of immigrants that should be happy to have that opportunity to work and live in Sweden.
Those lucky few even get permanent permit or citizenship.
The rest is being kicked out and restarting the process & hoping that they won't be kicked again.
That is how Sweden works since 2014/2015 and that is how it will work from now on + being more strict from years to come.

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 10:26 AM

OMG but if you get rejected why would you want to come back here again? Or even appeal. I mean, this is not New York lol. The salary is okay, but I mean come on, there is absolutely nothing special / desireable about Stockholm. The rest of Sweden is just a rainforest so I'll skip. Not even if you have kids, I mean do you want them to grow up into morons? Move to, idk, Berlin instead of wanting to come back here.

Source: I had a different picture of Sweden before I moved / spent years here. I'm still here because I have a boyfriend, friends and job lol here but if someone denied me a residence permit - I'd move the same day lol.

smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 28.Sep.2017, 12:42 PM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 28.Sep.2017, 10:26 AM) *
OMG but if you get rejected why would you want to come back here again? Or even appeal.

It is called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome.

Posted by: iamaho 28.Sep.2017, 12:55 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 28.Sep.2017, 01:42 PM) *
It is called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome.


It's called... I have a shitty passport from a 3rd world country, and this is my only chance to move up the ladder and become a 1st world citizen.

It's called... I don't want to go home and have to shit on the sidewalk, and this is my only chance to have indoor plumbing.

It's called... I don't want to go home and live in a cave, and this is my only chance to live in a flat with electricity.

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (iamaho @ 28.Sep.2017, 01:55 PM) *
It's called... I have a shitty passport from a 3rd world country, and this is my only chance to move up the ladder and become a 1st world citizen.

It's called... I don't want to go home and have to shit on the sidewalk, and this is my only chance to have indoor plumbing.

It's called... I don't want to go home and live in a cave, and this is my only chance to live in a flat with electricity.





Posted by: Tenacious185 28.Sep.2017, 01:21 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 1.Jul.2017, 07:55 PM) *
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/regler-som-tillkom-for-skydda-arbetstagare-anvands-nu-for-att-utvisa-dem/
I guess the bets are open for the reason of the next deportation wave.
Will it be,

Parking ticket?
Complain about the weather?
Evidence of having idea of their own?
Visiting the USA during the last 4 years?
Throwing up after eating Surströmming?
Renting second hand instead of first hand?
Keeping your shoes inside?
Not taking a number to be serve in a empty store?
Talking to your neighbors?
Waiting more than 9 months to get a decision?

Else?

The winner of the bet get a express deportation notice...


Being aggressively shoved in the Tunnelbana by some meth addled self-important douche, running while texting on the platform, who thinks that his presence is desperately wanted wherever that next train is going, (even though there's another one coming in two minutes) and actually shoving back, and saying "What the fuck, asshole?"

(Because conflict is not allowed in Sweden! Aggressively shoving people is ok - it's only "conflict" if the victim actually acknowledges the assault instead of pretending not to notice.)

Knowing damn well your grumbling pissed off colleague/neighbor/spouse/boss etc, is angry at you and actually asking them why, and if they want to talk about it. (Problem solving is an act of aggression!)

Telling someone else why you are upset with them instead of talking shit behind their back to everyone EXCEPT them. Because why be honest and just try to solve the problem with the person you actually have the problem with? (See: problem solving)

Just cleaning the fucking lint trap yourself in the communal laundry room, instead of writing a livid, ranting, anonymous novella about it, vividly describing the personal anguish that the lint caused you and everyone in the entire building, and ending with calling the guilty party a "useless goatfucker".

Actually being kind of good at something, or smart, and admitting that you're aware of it.

Not wearing horribly unflattering pants.

Not ripping out your own eyebrows, then tattooing them back on in the shape of Spock caught in a wind tunnel.

Buttering the wrong side of the knäckebröd.



It could be anything, really.

laugh.gif

For clarity: Tounge in cheek of course, because I do like it here, but holy crap, that whole "conflict avoidance to the point of creating even more conflict" thing is...interesting.

Posted by: Gjeebes 28.Sep.2017, 01:47 PM

"conflict avoidance to the point of creating even more conflict"

Who'd have guessed a whole nation could be summed up with one single statement.

The Swedish model: hurrah for the Swetards!

Posted by: Tenacious185 28.Sep.2017, 01:53 PM

Funny how that happens, huh? Ignoring the elephant in the room doesn't mean it's not there. wink.gif

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 01:57 PM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 28.Sep.2017, 02:21 PM) *
that whole "conflict avoidance to the point of creating even more conflict" thing is...interesting.


Hahahaha, especially in a relationship hahaha! Omg I felt like I was talking to a child with a Down syndrome while talking to my ex in a "conflict" situation.

Posted by: Tenacious185 28.Sep.2017, 02:07 PM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 28.Sep.2017, 02:57 PM) *
Hahahaha, especially in a relationship hahaha! Omg I felt like I was talking to a child with a Down syndrome while talking to my ex in a "conflict" situation.


I will refrain from commenting here. Eh...

Ok, but...yeah. The relationship conflicts are the weirdest I have ever experienced.

And I don't care how quickly MV wants to deport me...

...I would not be caught dead in these: http://www.hm.com/se/product/63318?article=63318-A#article=63318-A

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 02:14 PM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 28.Sep.2017, 03:07 PM) *
I will refrain from commenting here. Eh...

Ok, but...yeah. The relationship conflicts are the weirdest I have ever experienced.

And I don't care how quickly MV wants to deport me...

...I would not be caught dead in these. http://www.hm.com/se/product/63318?article=63318-A#article=63318-A

Swedish fashion reflects the social norms quite well - behave like all the others, dress like all the others (ehem: Tommy Hilfiger). Have neither your own style, nor your own opinion.












...but as I said, the salary is good for a recent graduate.

Posted by: Tenacious185 28.Sep.2017, 02:22 PM

The salaries can be decent in many professions, that's true. You could afford to buy countless saggy diaper pants with what many jobs pay.

I had an opinion here once. I was quickly shunned by everyone in the room. huh.gif

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 02:27 PM

I have it all the time. I'm lovin' it.
Still, I managed to form amazing friendships (and relationships) with Swedish people and I still wonder how (and/or why). laugh.gif

But my absolute favourite example of "we're all the same" principle in Sweden was the grading system with no grades, only passed and failed, during master's studies in architecture with a bunch of talentless morons who can't even imagine their faces in the mirror, not to mention space around them.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 28.Sep.2017, 05:42 PM

The negativity here makes me wonder what were the negative aspects of your birth country that were so bad you left it...

Sweden must have looked very good compared to where you came from...

Yes...No???

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 05:45 PM

I love my country. I wanted to experience life abroad and I picked Sweden. I didn’t NEED TO come here, as most of the people. I just wanted to.

It’s not negativity, it’s called a critical opinion. People have different points of view - learn about it. Travel a bit. Live somewhere else, outside of your nazis-parading-through-the-second-largest-city country. You will learn a lot about yourself. smile.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 28.Sep.2017, 06:13 PM

Actually it's called "culture shock", brought on by people who think their culture is superior and cannot face the reality that they abandoned their culture to live amongst a people who have a different culture and outlook on life...

In other words they are adaptability challenged!!!

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 06:16 PM

Honey, that was a nice try but failed successfully. wink.gif

Besides that, honey, what culture? Kanelbulle is not culture. sad.gif

Posted by: wallace1837 28.Sep.2017, 07:56 PM

Some more coverage of the migrationsverket deportation rage: here is some wishful thinking by the politicians:
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/ny-lag-kan-stoppa-utvisningar-av-utlandska-experter/
https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/regeringspartierna-backar-om-kompetensutvisningarna_685650.html
https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/politiskt-storbrak-om-kompetensutvisningarna_685608.html

This one is about denying students visa in Sweden:
https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/migrationsverket-det-stammer-att-avslagen-har-okat_684660.html

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 28.Sep.2017, 09:51 PM

"Besides that, honey, what culture? Kanelbulle is not culture. sad.gif""

Obviously, not a "buns" man... cool.gif

Posted by: flaneur 28.Sep.2017, 10:17 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 28.Sep.2017, 08:56 PM) *
Some more coverage of the migrationsverket deportation rage: here is some wishful thinking by the politicians:
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/ny-lag-kan-stoppa-utvisningar-av-utlandska-experter/
https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/regeringspartierna-backar-om-kompetensutvisningarna_685650.html
https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/politiskt-storbrak-om-kompetensutvisningarna_685608.html

This one is about denying students visa in Sweden:
https://www.entreprenor.se/nyheter/kompetensutvisningarna/migrationsverket-det-stammer-att-avslagen-har-okat_684660.html


I didn’t know it was possible not to get a student permit, what do you need to submit there, two pieces of paper? laugh.gif

Posted by: axiom 29.Sep.2017, 01:20 AM

QUOTE (iamaho @ 28.Sep.2017, 11:55 AM) *
It's called... I have a shitty passport from a 3rd world country, and this is my only chance to move up the ladder and become a 1st world citizen.

It's called... I don't want to go home and have to shit on the sidewalk, and this is my only chance to have indoor plumbing.

It's called... I don't want to go home and live in a cave, and this is my only chance to live in a flat with electricity.


Nothing wrong with that, I guess. People should when they can improve their quality of life. For some people, it has been a long journey in some cases 7years before they can become citizens and I too would feel bitter if that were yanked from my grasp especially where I perceive myself as being victimised.

These forums are at best a hint of reality, behind the smoke and screen and masks are real people worried about securing their tomorrows. Will I get my permit renewed, can I find somewhere to live, etc. It shows that regardless of how we pretend to talk down Sweden behind the veil of the internet, it is what we call home today and wish to remain as home for the foreseeable future. Some people, perhaps until they get a Swedish passport and move on to London, etc.

Most people who are here, regardless of what is said here, made an active choice to move to Sweden. And keep making an active choice to remain. That's a hard fact that no pretense will negate. The times in my life when I didn't like where I lived/worked I voted with my feet, I wasn't prepared to be somewhere I thought so little of, life is much much too short for that shit.

BUT not everyone can do that so easily for one reason or another, so perhaps one gets trapped between a rock and a hard place.

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 05:25 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 28.Sep.2017, 06:42 PM) *
The negativity here makes me wonder what were the negative aspects of your birth country that were so bad you left it...

Sweden must have looked very good compared to where you came from...

Yes...No???


I don’t know about anyone else, but my post about silly reasons to get deported was heavily satirical. With an undercurrent of truth. I really like Sweden, but there’s a few odd cultural things I can’t wrap my head around. But that’s ok.

My home country had some good qualities, but the politics are a disaster, and the population is about 50% inbred, violent rednecks.

I didn’t so much defect to Sweden, as I came here for an international study program, and met a partner about a year and a half in, so I decided to stay. And I’m really happy about it, passive aggressive laundry room notes and all! :-)

Edited to add: I don’t think the culture of my home country is superior to Sweden. Quite the opposite, truthfully.

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 06:48 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 28.Sep.2017, 03:27 PM) *
I have it all the time. I'm lovin' it.
Still, I managed to form amazing friendships (and relationships) with Swedish people and I still wonder how (and/or why). laugh.gif

But my absolute favourite example of "we're all the same" principle in Sweden was the grading system with no grades, only passed and failed, during master's studies in architecture with a bunch of talentless morons who can't even imagine their faces in the mirror, not to mention space around them.


I can say the same for my relationships with the Swedes, and I really do genuinely love many things about the people here. They're more peaceful than where I come from, and there is something very endearing about their introverted ways (I'm the same in that regard - pathologically so) but once you "scratch the surface" with them you find a type of loyalty that you don't find in many other places, from many other people. The Swedish friends I have are genuine treasures. And my partner...while "challenging"...is fantastic...most of the time. laugh.gif

My biggest complaint about the University system and the grading is that mediocrity is rewarded and excellence is punished. I had several years to be able to come to this conclusion, and heard the same from many other students. I studied in an English program, but very few of the teachers were native English speakers. None of my professors were, but there was a fair amount of native English students, from the U.S., UK, & AU. There was a heavy focus on academic writing, research papers, and some creative writing. I'm far from perfect, but one skill I'm confident in is my writing. (My stupid rants on The Local are not my best works, mind you...)

I was dismayed, countless times, when I would turn in a paper written in flawless English, well articulated and arranged, without a punctuation mark out of place, and get a sub-par grade. About eight times out of ten, I'd get a disappointing grade, and when I'd ask the professor to explain it, he or she couldn't. Or wouldn't. I would hear similar from the other native English speakers, who would also turn in good papers and get bafflingly poor grades. Then I'd see some of the "A" papers...and they were mediocre at best, and with poor English. I realize I have the luxury of native English skills, and good ones at that, and not everyone does. But fair is fair, and my papers were written correctly. When I studied in my home country where we ALL had native Enghlish skills, I still got the highest grades in writing, so something is off here. Finally I took some of the papers to a professor friend of mine who works in the Lingustics department and asked him to read them and tell me what was wrong with them, and his answer was "They're too good." He explained that non-native English speakers (which all my profs were) might not get the complex nuances, and also, might tend to reward the students who had to try harder, and downgrade the ones who succeeded easily. Because excelling at anything is not the Swedish way, and if you do, people feel threatened and think you are arrogant, and they want to knock you down a peg or two.

I wish the teachers had the same grading policy of "help the disadvantaged" when I studied finance and accounting. :-) Math bores me and I struggle to stay awake or even apply myself. (With the exception of geometry, which I love.) I got less than stellar grades there, and no teacher gave me a boost, haha. But I suppose incorrect math is easier to spot, and easier to argue than not "feeling" someone's writing. The grammar and punctuation can be perfect, but the teacher can claim they don't like the content, and it's subjective, unlike math figures. So there's not much I can do there. wink.gif

Posted by: hatim 29.Sep.2017, 07:33 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 07:48 AM) *
I can say the same for my relationships with the Swedes, and I really do genuinely love many things about the people here. They're more peaceful than where I come from, and there is something very endearing about their introverted ways (I'm the same in that regard - pathologically so) but once you "scratch the surface" with them you find a type of loyalty that you don't find in many other places, from many other people. The Swedish friends I have are genuine treasures. And my partner...while "challenging"...is fantastic...most of the time. laugh.gif

My biggest complaint about the University system and the grading is that mediocrity is rewarded and excellence is punished. I had several years to be able to come to this conclusion, and heard the same from many other students. I studied in an English program, but very few of the teachers were native English speakers. None of my professors were, but there was a fair amount of native English students, from the U.S., UK, & AU. There was a heavy focus on academic writing, research papers, and some creative writing. I'm far from perfect, but one skill I'm confident in is my writing. (My stupid rants on The Local are not my best works, mind you...)

I was dismayed, countless times, when I would turn in a paper written in flawless English, well articulated and arranged, without a punctuation mark out of place, and get a sub-par grade. About eight times out of ten, I'd get a disappointing grade, and when I'd ask the professor to explain it, he or she couldn't. Or wouldn't. I would hear similar from the other native English speakers, who would also turn in good papers and get bafflingly poor grades. Then I'd see some of the "A" papers...and they were mediocre at best, and with poor English. I realize I have the luxury of native English skills, and good ones at that, and not everyone does. But fair is fair, and my papers were written correctly. When I studied in my home country where we ALL had native Enghlish skills, I still got the highest grades in writing, so something is off here. Finally I took some of the papers to a professor friend of mine who works in the Lingustics department and asked him to read them and tell me what was wrong with them, and his answer was "They're too good." He explained that non-native English speakers (which all my profs were) might not get the complex nuances, and also, might tend to reward the students who had to try harder, and downgrade the ones who succeeded easily. Because excelling at anything is not the Swedish way, and if you do, people feel threatened and think you are arrogant, and they want to knock you down a peg or two.

I wish the teachers had the same grading policy of "help the disadvantaged" when I studied finance and accounting. :-) Math bores me and I struggle to stay awake or even apply myself. (With the exception of geometry, which I love.) I got less than stellar grades there, and no teacher gave me a boost, haha. But I suppose incorrect math is easier to spot, and easier to argue than not "feeling" someone's writing. The grammar and punctuation can be perfect, but the teacher can claim they don't like the content, and it's subjective, unlike math figures. So there's not much I can do there. wink.gif


I am confused about why you are
writing many paragraphs about quality if education in a thread about visas/deportation.?

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 07:38 AM

QUOTE (hatim @ 29.Sep.2017, 08:33 AM) *
I am confused about why you are
writing many paragraphs about quality if education in a thread about visas/deportation.?


Admittedly, we got sidetracked, and started having a side conversation about life in Sweden in general. It was a response to another poster. I think most threads on this message board get derailed multiple times. Sorry. tongue.gif

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 08:09 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 07:48 AM) *
mediocrity is rewarded and excellence is punished.


Thank you. smile.gif

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 08:12 AM

You're welcome, haha! I wish I had better news. wink.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 08:52 AM

Again, culture shock...

It's hard to take and understand, but there it is...

Threads run off course because they follow the interest of replies...

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 09:52 AM) *
Again, culture shock...

It's hard to take and understand, but there it is...


Honey, you don't even understand the grammar of your own language. smile.gif

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 09:00 AM

I think it's just "shock" period. Getting a shitty grade for a good paper, and a good grade for a shitty paper is...well...shocking - in any culture.

But I'm more shocked at what passes for a cinnamon bun here. wink.gif

This is a cinnamon bun! http://topcopycatrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Cinnabon-Cinnamon-Roll-Copycat-Recipe-720.jpg

If it doesn't look like bukkake, it's just not right. biggrin.gif

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:06 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:00 AM) *
This is a cinnamon bun! http://topcopycatrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Cinnabon-Cinnamon-Roll-Copycat-Recipe-720.jpg



Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 09:07 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:06 AM) *


Ohhhhh...now I want a rum cake.

Or I could just skip the "cake" part. biggrin.gif

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:11 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:07 AM) *
Ohhhhh...now I want a rum cake.

Or I could just skip the "cake" part. biggrin.gif


I would also sprinkle it with some methamphetamine to be able to enjoy fika with my culturally biased colleagues. smile.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 09:15 AM

Aaaahhh...

The cultural aspects of what passes for a cinnamon bun in different societies...

Still with a bit of rancor...Yes???

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 09:16 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:11 AM) *
I would also sprinkle it with some methamphetamine to be able to enjoy fika with my culturally biased colleagues. smile.gif


Haha! I'll take crushed Xanax on mine, please. I need it for my hour long commute in that fucking sardine can known as "the Stockholm Transit System".

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:17 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:16 AM) *
Haha! I'll take crushed Xanax on mine, please. I need it for my hour long commute in that fucking sardine can known as "the Stockholm Transit System".

laugh.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 09:19 AM

Has anyone given thought to a reverse situation whereby a Swede is trying to cope with your culture???

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:19 AM) *
Has anyone given thought to a reverse situation whereby a Swede is trying to cope with your culture???



Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 09:22 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:15 AM) *
Aaaahhh...

The cultural aspects of what passes for a cinnamon bun in different societies...

Still with a bit of rancor...Yes???


biggrin.gif I do get pretty rancorous when my Kanelbulle isn't swimming in buttercream icing. I sense a strongly worded letter to Parliament in my future about this. Shit's gotta change!

Don't change the gräddsås and meatballs thing though. That's one of my favorite things about Sweden. Even the Ikea variety.

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:19 AM) *
Has anyone given thought to a reverse situation whereby a Swede is trying to cope with your culture???


What's not to love about guns, morbid obesity, diabetes, inbreeding, and sweet baby Jesus? Any Swede would be thrilled to experience these things!

(Hell, I can't even cope with most of my own culture.)

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 09:23 AM

Isn't she supposed to be blonde???

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:23 AM

Honey, they don't need to (at least not in my case), because I'm quite aware of the cultural differences (obviously, ahem...) and I'm quite adaptable. Just because I'm pointing out all the shitty facts regarding Swedish culture doesn't mean that I'm not embracing it. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 09:25 AM

"Shitty facts" are in the eye of the beholder...

Culture shock can occur anywhere...

Example: When I was a child in school we had a spelling test, I spelled the word favor as favour, It was marked as wrong as does my spell checker now...When I complained that was the way the English spell it and we are speaking English, I was told your are not in England now!!!

I still use "our" in defiance of that teacher!!!

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:26 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:25 AM) *
"Shitty facts" are in the eye of the beholder...



Btw this is what I look like at work all the time...






...without methamphetamine.

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 09:40 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:25 AM) *
"Shitty facts" are in the eye of the beholder...

Culture shock can occur anywhere...

Example: When I was a child in school we had a spelling test, I spelled the word favor as favour, It was marked as wrong as does my spell checker now...When I complained that was the way the English spell it and we are speaking English, I was told your are not in England now!!!

I still use "our" in defiance of that teacher!!!


I'm in the opposite, but same boat. Now that I live and work in Sweden, (but our business language is English) my Euro colleagues are always having to remind me to use British English spelling in my documents. My spell checker is set to UK, so that helps. But it's a hard old habit to break!

Since we are on the topic...or off the topic...I just want to state that I was also INCENSED when I went to Swedish restaurant and ordered what was supposed be an American style ice cream sundae, and it did NOT have sprinkles on the whipped cream, which was unsweetened. I didn't know whether to shoot or sue somebody! wink.gif

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:51 AM

When I found out that I couldn't buy Russian Vodka in H&M, I was culturally shocked as hell. laugh.gif Haha ok I'm kidding.

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:51 AM) *
When I found out that I couldn't buy Russian Vodka in H&M, I was culturally shocked as hell. laugh.gif Haha ok I'm kidding.


You can buy those fugly-ass pants though. That's a plus, right? unsure.gif

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 09:56 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:54 AM) *
You can buy those fugly-ass pants though. That's a plus, right? unsure.gif


No, I'm keeping the Gosha Rubchinskiy legacy. Those pants would be absolute disaster to my current image. laugh.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 09:56 AM

I can't imagine a world without sprinkles...

When comes the revolution!!!

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 09:59 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:56 AM) *
No, I'm keeping the Gosha Rubchinskiy legacy. Those pants would be absolute disaster to my current image. laugh.gif


You're right. Those pants are more of a "white trash American in Wal-Mart" type of chic. I'm glad the Swedish retailers have embraced that look. I miss it! laugh.gif

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 10:01 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 10:56 AM) *
I can't imagine a world without sprinkles...

When comes the revolution!!!


The sprinkles were the straw that broke the camel's back for me, too. If I DO get deported, it will be for acts of violence related to the omission of sprinkles on something that's supposed to be "American style." Blasphemy!

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 10:04 AM

Deported!!!

See, now we are back on the main topic... laugh.gif

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 10:09 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 11:01 AM) *
If I DO get deported, it will be for acts of violence related to the omission of sprinkles on something that's supposed to be "American style." Blasphemy!


I'd be rolling on the floor in H&M, drunk, singing Russian national anthem.

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 10:53 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Sep.2017, 11:04 AM) *
Deported!!!

See, now we are back on the main topic... laugh.gif


I was bringing us back around to topic the whole time! That was my goal. wink.gif

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 10:56 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 29.Sep.2017, 11:09 AM) *
I'd be rolling on the floor in H&M, drunk, singing Russian national anthem.


That's me every day, but singing Exile's "I Wanna Kiss You All Over" in a shrieking falsetto. So far it hasn't gotten me deported. Only expelled from karaoke at Pub Anchor.

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 11:00 AM

Or due to questionable Russian fashion choices...



...it looks better on me, I promise. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 11:02 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 29.Sep.2017, 12:00 PM) *
...it looks better on me, I promise. biggrin.gif


Is the jacket tucked into the pants?! blink.gif

Posted by: flaneur 29.Sep.2017, 11:03 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 29.Sep.2017, 12:02 PM) *
Is the jacket tucked into the pants?! blink.gif


Hell yes! laugh.gif

Posted by: Tenacious185 29.Sep.2017, 11:11 AM

QUOTE (flaneur @ 29.Sep.2017, 12:03 PM) *
Hell yes! laugh.gif


Holy shit. To be fair, the model looks drugged. He has my Xanax face. He might have been unconscious while dressing. laugh.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Sep.2017, 11:12 AM

Hhhhmmnn...

Beginning to wonder...

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