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Swedish schools discipline & social media

Is Sweden strict enough?

Gjeebes
post 28.Apr.2016, 12:36 PM
Post #16
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

"Kids need some discipline but more then that they need to be treated with respect and encouraged and helped if they have some sort of problem."

Of course, I agree. I never meant to imply students should not be encouraged, respected or helped when they need it.

"Kids respond to guiding and encouraging better than just making then feel like little shits, or tell them if they cant focus or they are slower that they wont be able to do anything with their life or that they are worth less."

Again, I agree. None of what I have previously written on this subject was meant to imply that I would tell any child (or adult for that matter) they are worthless little shits. I know kids have problems, some more serious than others. Growing up can be (usually is) quite difficult.

"Your idea system exist in many countries and look what crappy students they send your way."

I teach at a uni in Sweden. The crappy students sent my way are Swedish products.

"...that show that the kids with issues being separated will never make them try to be better and the"good " kids learn that its okay to set someone aside if he or she doesn't fit the mold"

I agree. I have never thought any child should be set aside because of their ability.

"What do you think kids in detention learn?"

Kids in detention learn that their anti-social behaviour, or whatever it was that landed them in detention, will be rewarded with a temporary lack of freedom, a very boring hour or two etc etc (or what is detention in Sweden, 30 seconds?). Why the selectivity? You say the children are treated like adults, so why would you tolerate nonsense in a learning scenario, where most likely the troublemaker is disrupting others who might be interested in learning something.

I ask you, what does a kid learn by misbehaving, and never being corrected for it? What kind of adults do such children turn into?

"For a teacher you seem to have zero pedagogical studies or knowledge how learning children work."

Officially I don't teach children, although that is debatable considering the level of students of adult age I see. University is not high-school. I am there more to show people how some very advanced things work, from many different angles. The rest is up to them. If they aren't "getting it", then they would need to work harder, taking steps themselves. And in Sweden, many don't get it simply because they haven't been prepared very well, they don't have the proper background, and in fact shouldn't even be in the course they are in.

Anyway, uni students here rarely even bother to show up for lectures, and expect all course material to be available on the web. Then they complain when they fail, since there is much information they miss by missing lectures.

"My little genius in 5 grade read Shakespeare "

Sure, anyone can read Shakespeare. Does little genius really comprehend it? Can that question even be answered since it is likely no one has ever bothered to properly evaluate said genius' comprehension of 1600's English language.

"this kid does math in its head"

Wonderful. Let's hope he is continuously challenged and allowed to progress and develop his mind, even if he is beyond the level of other kids.

"The really bright ones will consistently improve faster hence they get less help more homework."

Could be, but I know of a kid who excelled at English, and he received more homework. But the homework was at the same level as the rest of it, and he got bored. He asked for more advanced material, and was denied because he might get too far ahead of his classmates.

I sit on PhD evaluation committees, and monitor progress of individual candidates. I am not alone in seeing those candidates who are essentially not up to the task (to make long stories short). My job is to identify problems, and oh, there are problems. But do you think the system can accommodate any notion of "problems"?? No way. Does ANY protocol exist to act as some sort of correction mechanism? No. The whole system is only geared to the assumption that the student is performing up to spec. And because there is no correction mechanism, nor a will to create one, the push is to get the student through, at any cost. That way the department gets their money and the student gets their degree, earned, or, more often, not earned.

In my mind, this is a failed system, where a student is given an artificial impression that they are on track, as the precious institution directs, when they clearly aren't. How does it help anyone to pretend to them they are expert in some science, when in fact they are incapable? Somehow, in Sweden, someone who has no chemistry background is permitted to do a PhD in chemistry! WTF? And oh is it expensive. And then upon review, it is exposed that the work performed, has no chemistry content it, the student, with straight face, says (in front of her advisor, and the committee) well, I don't have a chemistry background, so I have trouble when I come to the chemistry things.

Absolutely unreal! This would not be possible in any other country, even if students would have the means to foot the bill themselves. This goes quite beyond any kind of rubber stamping I have seen anywhere.

But hey, that's OK. I guess this kind of education inflation has become common practice in Sweden, which offers officially dedicated "emergency" services, for Swedish PhD graduates who feel like the frauds they are, because their lack of ability is no longer contained, but rather starkly exposed, after entering the work force.

unsure.gif
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get_a_lawyer
post 28.May.2016, 11:28 AM
Post #17
Joined: 19.Nov.2015

I think the problem with Swedish discipline in schools is that they have taken the ideology of 'free play, child-led' without the 'adult-supported' and 'scaffolding' structure and routines that are needed alongside it.

I am agast at the lack of any real 'learning' at my son's kommunal dagis.

And when I show them what my son was learning, through play with adult 'scaffolding', at his foreign pre-school, they say ' we used to do that, but no longer have the resources'.

So kids get free for all on iPad and board games without any meaningful adult guidance, across both academic and 'social-emotional' learning.

Its not evidence-based, its an ideology.

One that clearly hasn't worked.

It will take a long time to turn this sinking ship around...board at your own risk.
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littleviking
post 28.May.2016, 03:53 PM
Post #18
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

Get a layer you maybe should think things through before talking.
Most dagis dont have more then 2 3 tablets which are the teachers not the children's in which they record information and at best they show some stuff to the kids. All educational stuff in Sweden that is used by Skolverket with very little exception are apple based meaning a huge cost, so very little have at a daycare level.
The swedish systems is very close to the finnish one and help kids with much more.
For your kids development is more important that it knows how to socially interact, how to play work with others, they learn to have some independence and self confidence. This is achieved by letting these kids choose what they want to do, if they want to nap they can nap, if they want to dig in the ground to see what is there they can do that.
Learning through play is the way kids learn more stuff then in a foreign daycare or even school.
If you forced your child to do what you want or a teacher wants and dont give a crap you child will never have an opinion, it will never be able to take a decision nor will it develop hobby or even learn anything because it will hate school.
Children in most EU countries are forced to do a lot of stuff from dagis and they end up hating school and very little end up being able to be creative or think outside the box.
There is very many studies done on this type of education and more and more countries are implementing this type of education.
I have be a substitute for daycare for 2 years and i have been in very many and i have seen the difference that exist between swedish taught children and foreign taught children.
Your child need social skills which it will never develop if you force a child to learn strictly in a formal environment. Children learn though play, if they dont play while they are children and have little to no responsibilities when should they since adults make such a big deal if as an adult you want to play are treated like a retard.

You underestimate your child and you overestimate general traditional education.
When you start making your kid do homework and try and make it learn faster thing you are actually making its life harder. All the kids that are pushed hard into learning end up burning out, there are lots of studies on this.
This is one of the things you are taught in pedagogical studies.
You as a parent have the job of explaining and learning your child what consequences come from its actions, beside loving it and protecting it. You are supposed to be there if you child asks for help and help it be creative and to learn things from every where it is.
There is a reason why being a mom or a dad is not enough to be a daycare teacher.
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Bsmith
post 28.May.2016, 05:23 PM
Post #19
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

The best educational model I have witnessed is when I was taking martial arts.

In this system, every students starts as a white belt (beginner) no matter their age. Once you have mastered the techniques at that level you are tested, and if you pass, you advance to the next level. No social promotion. The overall class is taught by the sensei (master teacher) however the higher belts work with the lower belts and, as such, continue to work on the lower level techniques and perfect them. Strict discipline is maintained. For example, if you are late to class, you are immediately required to do push ups. If you lose control of your emotions during a sparing session and cause harm to your opponent, you most likely are to be kicked out of the class, perhaps permanently.
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Gjeebes
post 28.May.2016, 06:21 PM
Post #20
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

"Learning through play is the way kids learn more stuff then in a foreign daycare or even school.
If you forced your child to do what you want or a teacher wants and dont give a crap you child will never have an opinion, it will never be able to take a decision nor will it develop hobby or even learn anything because it will hate school."

Well, if you have anything to do with "education + children" it is truly no surprise what is happening to education in Sweden.

For an educator, you seem to have an extremist and narrow view of things. Most of your arguments have little substance, and can be summed up by allowing children to make childlike decisions without guidance from hateful, harm doers, like parents and real teachers who know the value of structure.

It is no wonder that your products are overwhelmed by the time they have been grade inflated and enter uni. Do you have any proof for your emotional claims? Likely not since in Sweden it is only the ideology that matters, not how it actually works out in reality.

Let's just wait for the next PISA scores, shall we, oh mighty educator?

And in the meantime, you go ahead and waste precious learning time allowing kids to dig holes in the ground, since surely that is a required skill in Sweden, where after the hole has been dug, people can proceed to stick their head in, and keep it there.
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littleviking
post 28.May.2016, 09:14 PM
Post #21
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

You should go and tell all the ppl that did studies on education and all the people that actually bother to be a proper teacher that and see what happens

As for the kiddies i have had in the last year as an english teacher i can say that now on the nationell prov out of 120 kiddies i have i have 50 that got the maximum score, 40 that got 80-95% and 30 that varied, out of this 30 i have 20 children with special needs, lowest score was 65% for a child with severe Adhd and dyslexia and the highest score of the 30 kiddies under 80% was 78%.

And these grades are not marked by me, since its always a committee. None of my kiddies get graded only by me since i don't have my license yet. And all my final year of high-school kiddies which i took this year over have gotten very high score in the högskolprov.
So for my kiddies i doesn't the pisa test in english will be a problem. Most also have taken either a TOEFL or a Cambridge test for studies abroad.

If every one would study at a university level the economy wouldn't not function first and foremost. There are already more highly educated ppl than jobs available. Not all ppl are interested or gifted enough to study at that level.
Secondly i believe children should be guided to reach their full potential, if they think they can be a doctor and they have the skills they should be encouraged and helped, if a child would like to be a plumber the same should apply. There has always been a discrimination against the "lower class" or the working class in which if you dont have a uni degree or money your are nothing which is very wrong. The economy need people that will work, not managers everywhere.

lets discuss if you dont like swedish education other systems in which everyone tried to get a university degree and never uses it.
My arguments came from lots of scientific studies which were not done in the corner deli by drunken sailors. The education of both children and adults has been studied for very many years both by scientists and psychologists and psychiatrists. And we are not talking about 2 3 studies but by thousands of studies. When s shrinks get teenage kids burned out or psych wards get teenagers trying to kill themselves because they couldn't cope with the constant competition and demands from the people around them, i would say they know better then you.
I always loved how ppl know better then ppl that have studied that their entire life or ppl that actually work in the system. (Like the geniuses that know better then doctors, and i mean in general not in Sweden)

The fact that teachers dont apply all this knowledge has very much to do with their own beliefs or they just dont care, or they are feed up of having to discipline your kids because you are a lousy parents and don't care to set boundaries to children, which is a very big trend now.
Education they get from school but boundaries come from home.
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smullyan
post 28.May.2016, 11:00 PM
Post #22
Joined: 9.Dec.2015

I mean this with all due respect littleviking as I have a tremendous respect for teachers but if you are the one teaching the English classes then these kids are in a bit of trouble. Its obvious English is not your mother tongue but your spelling and sentence structure is horrible. I don't mean just a little bit bad but downright dreadful. If you are truly an English teacher I suggest taking some extra training. Once again, with all due respect.

Now, as for the Swedish education system I think we can all agree it is not what it used to be. This is a fact that can't be debated, the PISA scores don't lie. Sweden has fallen further in the rankings than any other western nation, that is a 100% verifiable fact. There are schools in Sweden at this very moment where less than 20% of a whole years class manage to pass all of their courses. Can you just think about that for a minute? We live in one of the wealthiest western countries with some of the most amazing options open to children and the current system is letting them down. I'm sorry littleviking but these are facts. This ideology that is being pursued in Sweden coupled with not pushing hard enough for talented children to become teachers will slowly erode this country from within.
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Savage
post 29.May.2016, 12:12 AM
Post #23
Joined: 11.Mar.2016

QUOTE (littleviking @ 28.May.2016, 09:14 PM) *
As for the kiddies i have had in the last year as an english teacher i can say that now on the nationell prov out of 120 kiddies i have i have 50 that got the maximum score,



QUOTE (smullyan @ 28.May.2016, 11:00 PM) *
I mean this with all due respect littleviking as I have a tremendous respect for teachers but if you are the one teaching the English classes then these kids are in a bit of t ... (show full quote)


Regretfully I agree.

And while I am shocked, unfortunately it no longer comes as a surprise in regards to education and the standards set by Sweden.





I just feel sorry for the kids.
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Gjeebes
post 29.May.2016, 07:26 AM
Post #24
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

In defence of littleviking, I would like to remind us that this is an online "forum", not a high impact journal. So it could just be that s/he does not bother wasting time to make everything perfect (I know I don't).

Secondly, I think s/he is probably a good person with good intentions who has unfortunately bought into a flawed (yet "beautiful") ideology. Such is the way with many Swedes. And that is likely required in order to continue teaching in Swedish schools, which must be the epicentre of state espoused dogma and "command central" for the herd (you know, dishing out the restrictive Swedish styled conformity). Try to break out of that mould and it is likely the end of your teaching career in Sweden (you know, where thinking for yourself is pretty much taboo).

I agree that education is also not great in other countries, but it isn't because the kids aren't allowed to have a cookie whenever they don't feel like rolling up their sleeves and getting down to learning. It often comes down to money, and a general lack of resources (combined with poor parenting).

What makes me sad is that this little Swedish experiment (because let's face it, it is nothing more than that) is going to backfire (is already backfiring), and all those little ones who will grow up without a "clue", will think they are ahead of the world (because that is what they will be told). Cult members have no awareness that they have been brainwashed, right?

If the Swedish model worked, then how does it explain the PISA scores, which littleviking doesn't seem to want to get too close to (for obvious reasons).

I remember reading the excuses, such as, "oh, our kids didn't take the PISA exams seriously really". Perhaps the exam cut in to "hole digging time" or "there, there, have a cookie" time?

This gem came out at around the same time private (for profit) schools in Sweden were caught grade inflating to boost ratings to attract new customers (I mean students). When a principal was asked why their school had some of the highest (internally) ranked students who performed amongst the poorest in the country (according to the national exams), his response was, "oh, well you don't want to make relative comparisons to our students using the national exam scores".

Um, ya, you do, as that is the whole purpose of national exams, right?

So, good luck Sweden! The problems are so huge and come from so many different angles, that it is almost impossible to keep track of their origins. And then, just factor some Swedish administrators into the mix, who like to rearrange things beyond recognition, every 3-6 months, thereby making it impossible to even compare the ever changing "new" system to the previous one, which in turn makes it almost impossible to track problems, and heaven forbid, correct them.
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littleviking
post 29.May.2016, 10:03 AM
Post #25
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

well my English skills on an academic level are the what i bother to write from a tiny phone keyboard, and my last TOEFL test i got 119 out of 120 so i would say that is more qualifying then you think.
I personally can only speak for my students and my school, i dont care about pisa testing since they are not prepared for those tests, like in many other countries, and mostly because the children have their focus on other stuff. i know at least a couple countries that prepare the kids at school for the tests, i even know schools that have tried faking or helping kids cheat so they get higher score.
Instead of PISA testing i would more be worried that teachers are understaffed and not very motivated.(mostly by the fact that kids have no respect and the teachers get no authority ).
Education and good manners develop if parents do their job as well not just the teachers.

Yes the swedish system has some work to be done but its is the closest to the Finnish one which has the best results, and i have had a couple of months in teacher exchange program in which i worked with their kiddies and they with our and the only difference i see is in how the children are raised and how much the teachers are motivated. And yes it was in the Swedish speaking part.
The idea is very good the problem is implementing it, and again if parents have no rules and basic requirements from their kids, and i dont mean academically here.

Kids these days are let by there parents to pick everything from what they eat to when they go to bed, and that is not okay.
Kids have to be helped according to their skills and not try and make a doctor out of each and one of them.
its one thing to let them do what they want to play with and encouraging them to try new things and discover what their skills and hobbies are. But a completely different thing when ppl start making there kids learn at dagis age to do math and read and write and have homework.
In most dagis kids eat almost the same thing, the only difference is if they have some food allergy or intolerance to lactose.
If they eat they eat if not they dont eat or get later a sandwich, there is no cookies in dagis or desserts , the only sweet thing they get is an on the spot made smoothie with nothing else then fruit and either milk or some special "milk" that is varied by what kids are allergic to, most avoid having milk made out of nuts at all even if no one has any allergy.

When i worked at dagis level most kids were dropped of and pick up and after that the parents took them home washed them feed them and put them to bed with little to no proper interaction because it was easy.
My first students almost 2 years ago in school level shocked me. I had first grader that couldnt tie there own shoe laces and didnt know how to use a fork and knife, or that didnt knew how to even open a book.

I believe its wrong to leave kids from day one of birth with a phone and tablet all the time. Its one think if you as a parent put on some cartoons on a tablet or laptop to keep them occupied while you do stuff in the same room and another when you give them free range.
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Laurelia
post 29.May.2016, 10:18 AM
Post #26
Joined: 21.Apr.2013

As someone who worked in a primary school in the UK before coming here and has literally just watched some amazing grade six children break under the pressure of the SATs exams I am SO pleased my children don't go through similar in Sweden!
However, I am aware we have a pretty good local school and that's not the same throughout the country.
One thing that bugs me though is lack of speed in anything. E.G. if I call the principal about something it takes forever to hear from them and the same amount of forever for anything to be put in place, but I wonder if that's my own hang-ups on 'school time' being a finite amount and 'X, Y, Z MUST be done this year or it won't get done' since UK schools move students up to the next year every September regardless of ability.
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smullyan
post 29.May.2016, 12:39 PM
Post #27
Joined: 9.Dec.2015

Ok, littleviking I will give you the benefit of the doubt, I personally know the pain of typing on small mobile keyboards with my rather large fingers. That aside I have some comments.

"i would more be worried that teachers are understaffed and not very motivated.(mostly by the fact that kids have no respect and the teachers get no authority )."

I couldn't agree more, the teacher problem needs to become priority number one immediately. Unfortunately under the worsening current system a new feedback loop has been created whereby as the situation deteriorates further those with both the talent and the desire to teach become less likely to do so. For instance, my wife's little sister just entered university this previous fall. Earlier last year we were having a big family dinner and over the course of two hours I watched her family systematically take turns talking her out of becoming a teacher citing low earnings, outrageous classroom conditions and the lack of upward mobility as key reasons. This sweet girl has had in mind to be a teacher for quite some years, now she is in the business school studying economics instead.

"Yes the swedish system has some work to be done but its is the closest to the Finnish one which has the best results,"

I will bow to your expertise here but from what I do know teachers in Finland are paid a very decent salary and there are programs set up specifically to filter talented children into teaching. Both of these major points are lacking under the Swedish model. I would also conjecture that Finland's stricter immigration policies haven't forcibly shifted the need to cut so many corners as in Sweden.

"The idea is very good the problem is implementing it, and again if parents have no rules and basic requirements from their kids, and i dont mean academically here.

Kids these days are let by there parents to pick everything from what they eat to when they go to bed, and that is not okay."


These are very sweeping generalizations and anecdotally I have yet to see either of these in reality. Are we more relaxed than the previous generation? Sure, I would agree with that but I have yet to see a parent that has no basic requirement of their child or allow them to do whatever they want whenever they want (although I am sure some outliers do exist). Do I think some parents in Sweden allow their kids to get away with to much? Yes, I would agree with that statement as well. I would say first and foremost though that modern parents have far more tools at our disposal for raising our kids than any previous generation and I do have high hopes for the next generation, perhaps that is why I care so much about the diluting of their education as I see such incredible potential.

"Kids have to be helped according to their skills and not try and make a doctor out of each and one of them. "


And I must ask, who decides what a child's skills are? You say the PISA tests aren't a good indication of a child's skills so I must ask, what is? Who is qualified to make this judgement call? I believe that every child has the right to a high quality education and every child should have the opportunity to aim high if they so choose. You say that

"If every one would study at a university level the economy wouldn't not function first and foremost. There are already more highly educated ppl than jobs available. Not all ppl are interested or gifted enough to study at that level."

and I say to you bullcrap. Every child should have the opportunity to gain a good education. Anecdotally I will say that personally I went through the IB programme for high school in Canada. Every single young person in that programme was set up with a high quality education and the ability to apply to top universities around the world. When I look at my graduating class from over a dozen years ago people have gone into a wide swath of careers, from lawyers and doctors to entrepreneurs, carpenters and hotel owners. What we all had in common at the conclusion of our studies was a strong base of knowledge about the world and a very positive outlook on life. What I am trying to say is that just because every child receives a high quality education does not mean they will all pursue the path of the doctor or some PhD level of studies and "overburden" the system. Giving a child a high quality education gives them the freedom and excitement to meet life head on and discover what it is they want to do to contribute to humanity.

"My arguments came from lots of scientific studies which were not done in the corner deli by drunken sailors. The education of both children and adults has been studied for very many years both by scientists and psychologists and psychiatrists. And we are not talking about 2 3 studies but by thousands of studies. When s shrinks get teenage kids burned out or psych wards get teenagers trying to kill themselves because they couldn't cope with the constant competition and demands from the people around them, i would say they know better then you."

If you have some references you would like to share I would love to take a look. One thing I have noticed in Sweden is that whenever there is some kind of problem with a child learning (very often due to sheer laziness or apathy as a result of the Swedish model) many are quick to jump on the psychology train (this does not mean I believe that there are not children with actual learning disorders). All children need to be pushed at some point, pushing doesn't need to be rough but can be highly educational as it's incredibly important for all human beings to learn how to overcome adversity just as it's incredibly important for all babies to learn how to self-soothe themselves to sleep at night from an early age. When children are pushed into running away from issues in life they become adults living under the same paradigm.

Among Swedish adults they even have a saying "hitting the wall". While only in my early 30's over the past decade in Sweden I have seen roughly 25% of my wife's friends "hit the wall" and go on extended sick leave. This entails taking some months off, living off the system for free and pretending as if one never need worry about working again. This is an epidemic among adults in Sweden. A model that doesn't teach children to overcome adversity creates adults that feel as if they have the right to perpetually run away from life's problems and be protected, in fact rewarded by the State.

"I always loved how ppl know better then ppl that have studied that their entire life or ppl that actually work in the system. (Like the geniuses that know better then doctors, and i mean in general not in Sweden)"

I won't say that I know better but as a rather concerned parent I feel I have a vested interest in the outcome. My field is mathematics and I can say that after visiting a number of schools and talking with many teachers that don't even have an A-level education in mathematics that are currently working as maths teachers I can't help but think of you as delusional. Perhaps ideologically the model would in fact be the grand wonder it's meant to be. Unfortunately the reality is that the system is broken, not just in a 'hey we can put a bit of superglue on it' broken but full-on smashed on the ground need to buy a new one kind of broken.

"The fact that teachers dont apply all this knowledge has very much to do with their own beliefs or they just dont care, or they are feed up of having to discipline your kids because you are a lousy parents and don't care to set boundaries to children, which is a very big trend now. "

I'm sorry but the failings of the educational system is not the fault of parents, this is simply not true. The model is broken and getting worse. Lack of teachers, loose immigration policy, a fragmented educational system and no concrete plan to remedy any of it is the problem.
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get_a_lawyer
post 29.May.2016, 12:59 PM
Post #28
Joined: 19.Nov.2015

I think there is a third way between stressful exams that don't teach lifelong love and genuine motivation for education/problem-solving and the Swedish 'laissez-faire' way, which is not efficacious in that respect either.

Children must learn that any problem, be it academic or in building a house, one will come across problem after problem. Lowering the bar won't equip them with the required skill of 'micro-tenacity' that enables them to discover a new drug or program a robot.

Obviously elevating teachers to a higher level in society, with higher pay, is a solution.

Finland may be the way. Although proper due-diligence needs to be done before declaring Finland as the 'answer':
http://www.dn.se/debatt/finland-ar-inget-f...arna-feltolkas/

The OECD report seems quite wishy-washy and doesn't have strong policy recommendations.

I
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yet another brit
post 30.May.2016, 11:13 AM
Post #29
Joined: 5.Jan.2013

I think it is easy to look at the Swedish system and see its failings, of which there are a number. Especially with my own prism. The Swedish system is there to bring everyone up to the same common denominator ("godkänd is good enough"). It isn't there to bring out the best in every individual...which some parents get, and some don't. The system also works such that the authority of the individual teacher seems to be very important in how the class runs. As is the makeup of the class, kids being little bastards most of the time. There is a reason we don't let them vote or have real guns, after all.

So if you come here and expect your kids to be pushed to the max of their individual capacity - which is of course, unlimited in the eyes of the doting parent - then unless you get really lucky it won't happen without you, the parent, making it happen. If on the other hand, you have a kid that needs extra help due to some kind of developmental or other pathology - and yes, ADHD is a real thing, even if it is over diagnosed - then you may be better off in Sweden. Certainly better than being thrown on the scrapheap because you failed your 11-plus/SATS/GCSEs...

Somewhere I read that the job of the Swedish system is to bash the round kids into a square hole made up of four sides - social democracy, friluftsfrämjendet, temperance and Lutheranism... I wish I could remember where I read that! It's telling that one of those can't be concisely translated. Mens sana in corpore sano, maybe.

I work with many of what you might call the "upper end" products of the Swedish system - junior scientists and doctors. "Junior" in this context is a relative description, of course. But they are basically as good as anywhere else in the world, so it can/does work out in the end. Friends of mine in other businesses tell me the same is true in law, engineering, IT. The system does foster a few duds, but then so do the UK & US (I can assure you).
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Laurelia
post 30.May.2016, 11:34 AM
Post #30
Joined: 21.Apr.2013

QUOTE (yet another brit @ 30.May.2016, 11:13 AM) *
So if you come here and expect your kids to be pushed to the max of their individual capacity - which is of course, unlimited in the eyes of the doting parent - then unless yo ... (show full quote)


Most definitely. My daughter has learning disabilities and the Swedish school system works much better for her than the British did. In UK, for example, she was told that her physical issues with handwriting (dyspraxic with dyslexic tendencies and lefthanded to boot!) would have to be 'got over as everyone in the real world uses pens and won't make allowances for you'. Erm, ok? I rarely write anything by hand at work! This insistence on using fountain pens was ridiculous and she spent more time working on her presentation in maths than actual maths (which is where her dyslexia tends to make itself known).
Here, however, she has been told in no uncertain terms that it's not a problem and is delaying start of gymnasiet for a year to ensure her Swedish and Maths are up to scratch and she can start on a level playing field. In the UK she'd have been made to sit her GCSEs and written off.

Both of my sons on the other hand find learning as easy as breathing and sit happily in the top % of their classes without being pushed. Personally, I would much rather this way than the other. It is important all children reach a certain standard and aren't left behind while teachers are trying to cultivate little geniuses. As I told my husband recently when I was trying to get hold of the school about something and they weren't responding quickly "OUR child is OUR priority." As parents it's OUR responsibility to help our children excel, not the school's - they are there to provide a standard education. And, tbf, it's perfectly easy, as a parent, to introduce extra work at home for those children that are excelling - there are a gazillion books/websites out there to supplement learning.
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