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Is Sweden an Apartheid State?

De Facto and De jure any difference?

post 19.Mar.2010, 10:55 AM
Post #136
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 21.Dec.2005

Do you have any statistics on ethnic minority representation at senior executive level in any other EU country? The UK doesn't have many black CEOs or Cabinet Ministers either. I think under your definition, every country in the world is an apartheid state.
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post 19.Mar.2010, 11:33 AM
Post #137
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 2.Apr.2006

QUOTE (krigeren @ 1.Mar.2010, 11:00 AM) *
Their is de facto apartheid and de jure apartheid. . I say that Sweden practices de jure apartheid.

it's rather evident that you're not truly capable of comprehending the words you like to banter about when you amusingly try to employ intellectual-sounding terms to somehow lend credibility to moronic "theories"

seriously, if you can't distinguish between their and there you really ought to avoid terms like de jure (and de facto for that matter.) that you exploit and abuse the term apartheid might be popularly acceptable to add sensational boost to an otherwise drippy manifesto but it's just another blah blah word people overuse ineffectively.
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jack sprat
post 19.Mar.2010, 06:10 PM
Post #138
Joined: 15.Sep.2006

QUOTE (Streja @ 18.Mar.2010, 09:47 PM) *
I just mentioned a country with 9 million that has had a huge influx of immigrants.Jack, I was recently there and there are a lot of Catalans that are working for independence ... (show full quote)

Last I heard Catalonia was still part of Spain, NOT a country in its own right.
Yes they would like independance,then so would the Basques,Spanish N.Africa,Canaries and possibly Galicia and others, but in the long term I doubt if it is such a good idea,and would mean the virtual break up of Spain.
There is a long history of bad blood between Catalonia and the Castilian region,likewise with the Basque region which goes way back, many years,...long before the civil war and still continues in some ways today.
It is only a few year ago that the Govt decided to scrap the regional prefixed vehicle reg.plates,partly because lots of ppl.were getting their cars trashed, when visiting those sometimes less than friendly areas.
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post 20.Mar.2010, 02:04 PM
Post #139
Joined: 10.Jul.2006

I wouldn't say it's true for the Canaries. Those are extreme parties with no real power.

The regions of Spain have more independence than American states so it's an ok comparison, plus the population size is similar to that of Sweden. Plus they also push the language for integration.
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post 21.Mar.2010, 01:11 AM
Post #140
Joined: 11.Jul.2009

Krigeren, you have confused your argument by wrong terminology. SA had 'de jure' segregation, and your claim is that Sweden has 'de facto' segregation, though your statements use the opposite terms.

Wikipedia quote follows:
"When discussing a legal situation, de jure designates what the law says, while de facto designates action of what happens in practice. ... The term de facto may be used when there is no relevant law or standard, but a common and well established practice that is considered the accepted norm.
'De facto' racial discrimination or segregation in the USA during the fifties and sixties was simply discrimination that was not segregation by law (de jure)."

These days the majority of Swedish couples are in a 'de facto' relationship, i.e. NOT legally sanctioned. So a marriage would be a 'de jure' relationship. Your confusion might stem from the fact that the Swedish government has gone further in giving legal rights to sambo (de facto) relationships than most other countries.

I will not weigh in on the main debate of this thread as I can see both sides of the coin. I agree that there is a strong element of well concealed bias against perceived 'outsiders'. But I doubt that you can legislate away people's prejudices. Xenophobia grows out of fear, so to my mind that fear is the point that needs to be addressed.
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post 21.Mar.2010, 02:08 AM
Post #141
Joined: 16.Oct.2006

QUOTE (brissiedan @ 21.Mar.2010, 02:11 AM) *
Xenophobia grows out of fear, so to my mind that fear is the point that needs to be addressed.

So are ALL forms of "politics".

"Politics" are conducted between people who "fear" that, without their political participation, things would be different from what they want the society to be.

Their motivation to participate in political activities may be to change certain things in society or to keep things as they want them to be in the face of outside socioeconomic and politcal forces.

"Xenophobia" is thus merely a political expression; you can't remove it from people wherever you are or whenever you look at in human history. It is also a poltiical issue for which people can debate and argue about what to do with "foreigners" - to see them in a negative light against the society we already have or, if not, then how could "foreigners" could be considered positively ?

Ultimately, as with many other political arguments, there is NO "right" or "wrong" answers with "xenophobia" or "foregners". There is only one's "preference" towards one of xenophobia or not and, until when people of all political persuasions understand this fact, then there can only be escalation on the issue of xenophobia, even genocide as in Serbia, and not to a peaceful, civilised "solution" to it.

"Solution" to the issue of xenophobia, in this sense, could be understood as an argument which can persuade and create consensus between people of different political persuasions about what to do with "foreigners".
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The Nine
post 21.Mar.2010, 11:16 AM
Post #142
Joined: 10.Aug.2006

QUOTE (VikingHumpingWitch @ 19.Mar.2010, 10:55 AM) *
Do you have any statistics on ethnic minority representation at senior executive level in any other EU country? The UK doesn't have many black CEOs or Cabinet Ministers ei ... (show full quote)

But that is the thing, it does have a lot of immigrant representation in higher office. They are not always public roles but high achievment never the less. Only recently there was a photo in one of the Sunday papers with all the ethnic members of parliment. It was around 40 MPs, a pretty representative amount. You have had people like Bill Morris rise to the lofty echelons of President of the Trades Uniion Congress. There have been numerous ethic appointments to the House of Lords. Something you never saw 20 years ago, black barristers, judges, and even conservative party candidates. You are correct to say there are no black cabinet ministers but that will surely change in the next few years. The point is, black and ethnic people are already serving as junior ministers in government. It is only a matter of time before one of them makes it to senior minister. The Uk has a represetative amount of ethnic people in public office.
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post 21.Mar.2010, 11:30 AM
Post #143
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 21.Dec.2005

Actually the UK has a huge amount of ethnic minorities (which term incidentally is not interchangeable with the word immigrant) in public office. Cleaners, receptionists, junior clerks etc. Loads, tons. It's just like ¨with women, the higher up you go the fewer you find. 40 MPs is about 6%, lower than the non-white British population percentage across the country. We have already had one black Cabinet Minister. I'm just pointing out that there aren't many ethnic minorities in senior posts in the UK, either in the public or private sector. "Not many" is not interchangeable with "none".

Doesn't make the UK an apartheid state any more than Sweden is one.
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Gustav- Fælbönnran
post 22.Mar.2010, 07:05 PM
Post #144
Location: Östersund
Joined: 31.May.2006

Apartheid? Maybe we're not so hung up on ethnicity after all...

Fredrik Reinfeldt:
During the 2006 election, it was brought to attention that Reinfeldt's paternal great-grandfather, John Reinfeldt, was the illegitimate son of Emma Dorotea Reinfeld, a maid from Eckau in present-day Latvia, and John Hood, an African American circus director from New York.[55] Emma Dorotea Reinfeld later married the Swede Anders Karlsson, but her son John kept his mother's surname. The spelling was later changed to Reinfeldt.[2][55][56] He also has Italian ancestry, via his paternal grandmother, who was allegedly related to royals King Ferdinand IV of Naples and his queen, Marie Caroline of Austria.[56]

Queen Silvia holds three nationalities, and the King is descended from a Frenchman.
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