Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

The Local _ Life in Sweden _ Job discrimination based on heritage?

Posted by: newkidontheblock 26.Oct.2016, 12:33 PM

Hello,

I am relatively new to Sweden. Moved to Stockholm about half a year ago. I live with my Swedish sambo and so far have been working in a high position within marketing, primarily tackling Nordic territories. I used to work abroad for a Swedish company and most of my colleagues were Swedes. I am still working for the same company but on remote, and continue with my duties.

That said, I don't speak Swedish (but actively learning).

Now, it came time for me to look for a new job, to settle more into my new surroundings - to adapt to my new city fully. I am noticing that I am not getting ANY interview callbacks, and people aren't even trying to search me up on Linkedin (link included in CV). Recruiters barely respond - those who met me do, those who haven't no. I network extensively and have many recommendations, mostly from Swedes. Here I am talking primarily about direct applications to job postings for which I don't have a connection or side entry.

I have checked contents of my resume with many local people, I have vast experience and appropriate education, and nobody can really pinpoint what is the issue of complete disinterest. Most of these positions are also posted in english and require english as a main language (resumes are also in english), even though some do note knowledge of Swedish as well (so I understand some rejections).

The roles I am going for are higher or on my current level, but I have good experience and am mostly aiming at the jobs that I am currently doing.

With constant improvement on my resume (I always try to adapt it and make it better), I am starting to wonder if I am being completely looked over based on my heritage.

I have a slavic background and a Slavic name (eastern european). Now I have started including my sambo's last name (swedish) to give it more familiarity, but at the end of the day I have a very typical eastern european name, and despite my knowledge of Swedish business landscape and experience, I am really starting to feel something might be affecting the callback or someone even giving my resume a look.

I have read several studies confirming this and also articles where people changed their names and ended up getting interviews then.


I just wanted to get feedback how do you guys feel when it comes to discrimination? I noticed Americans, Brits and Germans etc, get more recognition unlike us who come from Slavic/Balkan areas. I find it completely unfortunate and downright frustrating.

And to note, I have rights to work, PN, and all that jazz, as a EU citizen.

Just any thoughts about how to go about this?

Posted by: newkidontheblock 26.Oct.2016, 01:42 PM

And one thing to note:

I lived and worked in several first world countries and never had this much of an "issue". I know this is a quite tight and closed off society, where speaking Swedish is important (and not enough either), but I am really trying to get a sense if I am just overthinking this, or is it really something "in the name/heritage".

Posted by: Gjeebes 26.Oct.2016, 02:07 PM

Welcome to Sweden. Land of the feminist government and the humanitarian super-God, where gender-equality, safety, and the under-dog (in general) are all more important than common sense.

But seriously, you might just be on to something. We of course anticipate the predictable "no, no, never in Sweden, Sweden is golden" crowd to arrive at this thread and give all the (scripted) reasons why what you suspect just-can't-be-true...but I would guess you are not far off the mark.

Change your name on your application materials, and give it a go. I'd bet 2 cans of last year's rotten herring, you will be getting more action that way. If you are challenged due to lacking language skills, just indicate you had parents who saw so many great Swedish films, and listened to sooo much ABBA, that they just had to give you one of those exotic Swedish names. I could suggest Jerker, for a first name; they'll eat it up.

Sad, isn't it? All the BS talk of open this and equal that, yet this place is about as religionist, racist, sexist, xenophobic and nepotistic as it gets.

Posted by: Bsmith 26.Oct.2016, 03:13 PM

Would that be pronounced "Jerker" with a hard J or "Yerker"?

Posted by: Hisingen 26.Oct.2016, 03:51 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 26.Oct.2016, 01:07 PM) *
- - -All the BS talk of open this and equal that, yet this place is about as religionist, racist, sexist, xenophobic and nepotistic as it gets.

Well since you are still here it either cannot be that bad, or you are enjoying a spell of self-flagellation. Don't know which. Perhaps you will enlighten - - - .

Posted by: Gjeebes 26.Oct.2016, 07:23 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 26.Oct.2016, 03:13 PM) *
Would that be pronounced "Jerker" with a hard J or "Yerker"?

More like Yerker, but always fun to forget and proceed with a hard "J"...you know...those darned foreigners will never get it right!

Posted by: Hisingen 26.Oct.2016, 10:35 PM

Well, my choice was freely made. In contrast to some, who only feel they must constantly denigrate anythiing that is Swedish - in the cause of so-called journalism. Did you do an Assange and jump bail perchance??

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 26.Oct.2016, 11:55 PM

Job discrimination based on heritage, exists...everywhere...

In reality who would hire a person that is not of his/her group, when their own people are needing jobs too...

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Oct.2016, 08:34 AM

From OECD it exist everywhere ( https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-unemployment.htm ). Lets see what is the magnitude in some countries.

ratio = Unemployment foreign born/Unemployment native born
At ratio one no one has advantage.
At ratio above 1 the foreign born are more likely to be unemployed.
At ratio below 1 native born are more likely to be unemployed
At ratio 2 the foreign born are twice as likely to be unemployed compared to native born.
You get the idea.


2014 DATA from OECD
USA: Unemployment foreign born 5.8%, Unemployment native born 6.5%, ratio 0.89
Canada: Unemployment foreign born 7.8%, Unemployment native born 6.7%, ratio 1.16
Greece: Unemployment foreign born 34.5%, Unemployment native born 25.8%, ratio 1.34
Spain: Unemployment foreign born 33.3%, Unemployment native born 22.8%, ratio 1.46
Iceland: Unemployment foreign born 7.6%, Unemployment native born 4.8%, ratio 1.58
Finland: Unemployment foreign born 16.8%, Unemployment native born 8.3%, ratio 2.02
Sweden: Unemployment foreign born 16.4%, Unemployment native born 6.2%, ratio 2.65
Norway: Unemployment foreign born 7.9%, Unemployment native born 2.9%, ratio 2.72

In conclusion it discrimination may exist everywhere, but Sweden is pretty good at it!

Posted by: newkidontheblock 27.Oct.2016, 09:04 AM

@gamla

"Job discrimination based on heritage, exists...everywhere...

In reality who would hire a person that is not of his/her group, when their own people are needing jobs too..."

I would hire people as I have hired people from all cultures, heritage and backgrounds. Based on their capabilities and merits. At least I would talk to people and not bin their resumes based on name.

@wallace: As someone who lived also in US and UK, I definitely felt the difference than here, just based on response rate.

At the end of the day, maybe what confuses a lot of people is that Stockholm presents itself (and is considered) as a metropola, an urban diverse city. In reality is quite a tiny place (as Sweden as a whole), where pretty much everyone gets to know one another over time and it turns into a very exclusive club. My home town is of this size and I find a lot of similarities.

With persistence this can be broken down, as people get to know you (no other way), and by having locals vouch for you until you are part of the system.
I just wanted to get a sense more if I was reading this right. It seems to be the case. It is so so unfortunate, but indeed, it is like many societies in the world. I guess, given the perceived "progressivness" of this country one would really expect better.

Posted by: LLHope 27.Oct.2016, 09:19 AM

QUOTE (newkidontheblock @ 26.Oct.2016, 12:33 PM) *
Now I have started including my sambo's last name (swedish) to give it more familiarity, but at the end of the day I have a very typical eastern european name, and despite my knowledge of Swedish business landscape and experience, I am really starting to feel something might be affecting the callback or someone even giving my resume a look.
Big mistake. All of those people who claim that changing their last name makes a difference, rubbish. If they had any intelligence they would know that FIRST name is more telling than surname. A Swedish sounding first name implies at least 1 parent is Swedish, regardless of family name.

Swedish recruitment can be very specific. If you are trying to go via recruitment agencies then you need to understand that there is a lot of competition between agencies, once a process is agreed it can be expensive, and because of the combination of price charged and competition the agencies are very very afraid of passing to their clients selected candidates that do not exactly meet the requirements (which indeed means they are very specific about what is required and often miss the best candidates for the client) as the risk is losing future business.

They also often place ads for positions that are not available yet, to get in potential candidates to their database, which is then used as a sales tool ... look we have xxxxx number of such skilled/experienced candidates in this field.

Also, despite what you have heard about Swedish law protecting jobs so people stay in companies for decades, yes in many respects, but the reality is that within the EU, workers in Sweden are the most "mobile" (change jobs/companies often). A lot of competition, you need to make yourself more visible and stand-out through creative cover-letter, personality etc... the cv they wont even bother to read, sometimes not even before the interview you wink.gif

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 27.Oct.2016, 08:34 AM) *
In conclusion it discrimination may exist everywhere, but Sweden is pretty good at it!
That is not a conclusion that can be drawn from those figures. First, foreign-born is a very misleading term, in Sweden whenever the media an politicians want to try and put a positive spin on how wonderfully educated immigrants are that come to Sweden they use the term foreign-born. This eve includes Swedish citizens born outside of Sweden, and all the, indeed educated, immigrants from developed countries (e.g. USA, EU etc...), whilst trying to imply it is the asylum seekers from the less educated areas of the world. Secondly, you need to break the data down into levels of education and available jobs at those levels before you can even start to talk discrimination! unsure.gif

Posted by: newkidontheblock 27.Oct.2016, 09:41 AM

@llhope

The change name was meant for the whole name, not just last name BUT I don't feel like lying therefor I don't want to change my first name which is not my legal name. Adding a surname of my partner is the closes thing to a grey area I can do, without being completely dishonest as I don't want to fraud anyone, and since we are in sambo officially, it is one of those things that wouldn't cause too much of a frowned eye.

I have been around the block work wise, and have quite a lot of experience. I am particularly talking about roles that it is quite clear they are hiring. And it's not just through CV how someone connects, there is cover letters, LinkedIn and such - but the bottom line is, I am seeing a CLEAR lack of responsiveness overall, which is usually not the case. And not just from recruiters, even from companies when it comes to rejection letters and such.

And again, for me, I always have seen a different vibe when it comes to an American or a Brit (or anyone with anglo-saxon background) searching for a job, than when a Slav (and/or Balkan) is searching for one. It is almost as people from my area are perceived as less valuable or our work experience as well, even if it's from the same area and or level of work.

It is quite unfortunate.

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Oct.2016, 09:42 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 27.Oct.2016, 08:19 AM) *
That is not a conclusion that can be drawn from those figures. First, foreign-born is a very misleading term, in Sweden whenever the media an politicians want to try and put a positive spin on how wonderfully educated immigrants are that come to Sweden they use the term foreign-born. This eve includes Swedish citizens born outside of Sweden, and all the, indeed educated, immigrants from developed countries (e.g. USA, EU etc...), whilst trying to imply it is the asylum seekers from the less educated areas of the world. Secondly, you need to break the data down into levels of education and available jobs at those levels before you can even start to talk discrimination! unsure.gif

I would like to see those data (breakdown by education level, citizenship, etc.) too. But as far as the OECD data shows, using the same yardstick for different countries, Sweden is really good at discrimination. I will happily change my mind when I see data independently collected that shows that the OECD is wrong. In the meantime, this is the most reliable comparison that I have to make inform decision.

Posted by: Genaro 27.Oct.2016, 11:19 AM

Definitely change your name/s to something Swedish. This alone should significantly increase your chances of an interview - which is a huge barrier in Sweden.

Swedes generally only hire Swedes as they are innately conservative and introverted in behaviour, so the more you can replicate a Swede (yikes) the better. Sweden is not multicultural like other nations such as the UK; Sweden has a societal segregation that keeps the local above foreigners (the latter group including Swedish citizens who for whatever reason do not confirm to the ethnic template of Swede).

Before the usual posters accuse me of moaning, these are simply statements based on my many year's of experience in Sweden.

Posted by: littleviking 28.Oct.2016, 03:18 PM

well its rather simple since you are not fluent in swedish this makes it hard to be hired.
If the client of the recruiting agency or just an internal hr department asks to find a marketing specialist, they will interview first the ones that speaks the required languages.
since this is sweden and the official language is swedish 90% of jobs will require some language proficiency. The more your work with people the more you need to know the language,

If i apply for a job in poland or bulgaria as a marketing specialist or a pr specialist without knowing the language properly i will not get the job unless its in a huge multinational and even then they would expect you to have some vague knowledge.

Marketing in Russian in the uk wouldn't work either since little people get it

If you have 5 specialist and out of those only 2 speaks swedish unless those 2 are really weak or make a bad impression they dont need to interview someone that cant communicate with the staff or the clients.

Posted by: Svedallas 29.Oct.2016, 11:10 PM

QUOTE (Genaro @ 27.Oct.2016, 12:19 PM) *
Definitely change your name/s to something Swedish. This alone should significantly increase your chances of an interview - which is a huge barrier in Sweden.

Swedes generally only hire Swedes as they are innately conservative and introverted in behaviour, so the more you can replicate a Swede (yikes) the better. Sweden is not multicultural like other nations such as the UK; Sweden has a societal segregation that keeps the local above foreigners (the latter group including Swedish citizens who for whatever reason do not confirm to the ethnic template of Swede).

Before the usual posters accuse me of moaning, these are simply statements based on my many year's of experience in Sweden.


Discrimination is everywhere! I think it is all a matter of confidence.

Do not change your name. Why would you? No job is worthy of that.
Look at Zlatan Ibrahimovic. He defied all odds, that is why he is now the Unofficial King of Sweden rolleyes.gif

I have plenty of friends who do not have Swedish sounding names, some born here, some not.
The name is no longer a factor these days.10 - 15 years ago. Maybe. But not now!

Posted by: cherif 31.Oct.2016, 11:28 AM

QUOTE (Genaro @ 27.Oct.2016, 11:19 AM) *
Definitely change your name/s to something Swedish. This alone should significantly increase your chances of an interview - which is a huge barrier in Sweden.

Swedes generally only hire Swedes as they are innately conservative and introverted in behaviour, so the more you can replicate a Swede (yikes) the better. Sweden is not multicultural like other nations such as the UK; Sweden has a societal segregation that keeps the local above foreigners (the latter group including Swedish citizens who for whatever reason do not confirm to the ethnic template of Swede).

Before the usual posters accuse me of moaning, these are simply statements based on my many year's of experience in Sweden.

BEST answer so far...

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 31.Oct.2016, 12:25 PM

And then if you get an interview you will be caught lying!!!

Posted by: Bsmith 31.Oct.2016, 03:55 PM

What's next, job discrimination based upon qualifications, skills and education (or the lack thereof)?

Posted by: Hisingen 31.Oct.2016, 06:14 PM

You forgot the 11th:-

You are not to believe anything Savage tells you, it is far too biased to be the truth.

Posted by: Svedallas 31.Oct.2016, 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Savage @ 31.Oct.2016, 04:12 PM) *
Agreed. Using a "sson" last name and a typically Nordic name like Johan can work wonders.
I believe Andersson is the most common last name in Sweden, so choosing a name like that will help ensure you get a better chance of an interview.

There are also some stores in Sweden that sell skin bleach, often in places like Afro hair stores etc.
This can help give you more of a "European" look, but it can be dangerous stuff. So exercise extreme caution if choosing to use i, and do so at your own risk.

Thirdly, dress style can play a huge part.
Study the slim casual suit jeans mix and often white shoes. Each region can be slightly different. But if you make sure you choose Swedish only brands, such as Tiger, H&M, J Lindberg etc. You should find this helps onto your way of being employable and fitting in to Swedish standards.

Lastly, don't aim too high in terms of employment.
Many immigrants with degrees and higher education find themselves employed in the cleaning industry in Sweden. A culture of "They do the jobs we don't want to" has helped create an image and expectation of where immigrants fit into Swedish society. So with the law of Jante being the backbone of Swedish society, make sure you learn the 10 rules so you don't set yourself up for disappointment.

The ten rules state:

You're not to think you are anything special.
You're not to think you are as good as we are.
You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
You're not to convince yourself that you are better than we are.
You're not to think you know more than we do.
You're not to think you are more important than we are.
You're not to think you are good at anything.
You're not to laugh at us.
You're not to think anyone cares about you.
You're not to think you can teach us anything.



"There are also some stores in Sweden that sell skin bleach, often in places like Afro hair stores etc.
This can help give you more of a "European" look, but it can be dangerous stuff. So exercise extreme caution if choosing to use i, and do so at your own risk."


You, Savage, are just disgusting human being. Exactly the type of person that should not be in Sweden.
It is sad how low you go. And, your negative posts and "advice" is beginning to show that this is just a reflection of YOU.

You obviously have some emotional issues and it is beginning to transpire in your very sad threads and responses. Each thread is now beginning to look as an emotional outlet and psychological call, only to make you feel better about yourself.

If you hate Sweden so much, why don't should make a Swexit??

This young lady is here to get some tips and advice! Like many other people - but your advice is to bleach skin!?

Soo soo sad.

Get well soon.

sad.gif

Posted by: Svedallas 1.Nov.2016, 12:40 AM

QUOTE (Savage @ 1.Nov.2016, 12:19 AM) *
Obviously, another person trying to hinder immigrants from getting anywhere in Sweden.


Let all immigrants bleach their skin, and change their names.

You have such solid advice Savage!!

Just incredible.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 1.Nov.2016, 02:18 AM

Hey, why not???

It has worked for him...

Posted by: Hisingen 1.Nov.2016, 11:06 AM

Savage acts like one demented. Life has clearly passed it by in Sweden, and the Svedallas advice for a Swexit would seem the ideal solution.
Bitterness eats at the soul and clearly it has had a good savage meal.
It does make you wonder what our 'pet' reporter will hit upon next for anti-Sweden news to be sent to the world's press.
Bias is not the word for it - - - although on reflection the first and last letters are suitable.

rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Svedallas 1.Nov.2016, 11:42 AM

QUOTE (Hisingen @ 1.Nov.2016, 11:06 AM) *
Savage acts like one demented. Life has clearly passed it by in Sweden, and the Svedallas advice for a Swexit would seem the ideal solution.
Bitterness eats at the soul and clearly it has had a good savage meal.
It does make you wonder what our 'pet' reporter will hit upon next for anti-Sweden news to be sent to the world's press.
Bias is not the word for it - - - although on reflection the first and last letters are suitable.

rolleyes.gif


I figured it out Hisingen. Savage is deliberately posting offensive threads to increase "clicks" thus get more revenue from the Local. Obviously this is where Savage is getting the Freelancing paycheck.
Past few weeks was particularly high. That "freelancing" isn't getting you anywhere Savage?


The Local has finally sunk to a all time low.



Writing false and negative threads with the intent of instigating a hateful debate about immigration and crime, and also posting negative headlines about Sweden - only so as to increase their revenue? (Something Savage admitted to in a post). Smart thinking admitting that on a thread.
You only just reduced the reputation of The Local (what is left of it) by further putting it down the gutter.

Thanks to the admission that your negative threads only increase revenue. But actually, you just look like a fool. Have you no morals, at all??! Seeing your latest post. Obviously not.


Savage will continue posting ludicrous and bashing posts about Sweden, immigration, give negative advise and anything on the contrary because:

1. Savage is getting paid to do it by The Local. As they say - bad press is better than no press.

2. The Local is losing money and now getting very desperate to get more viewers.
As per yesterdays headline about Sweden not having enough "Butter" - calling it a "crisis"

3. Syrians joining pornography? (Meanwhile - might I add, it was a historical event yesterday having the Pope in Sweden. But this was the first thread that Savage posted - just goes to show how desperate Savage and The Local is).


There is no respect, no morals, no respect to Sweden. This is becoming a corrupt newspaper - all in the name of increasing their online revenues.

After many years reading this paper. More years that Savage has even lived in Sweden. I am stepping out - for the simple reason, I do respect Sweden. This latest post (above) shows the an example of the low that Savage and the Local have.

Rather than be a fruitful discussion forum. This is now a filthy discussion forum full of hatred and ill advise.

Finally, I would like to conclude that is by far one of the worst "Swedish" (if I dare call it that) online newspapers.


RIP The Local newspaper.

Posted by: LLHope 1.Nov.2016, 04:39 PM

QUOTE (Savage @ 31.Oct.2016, 04:12 PM) *
Agreed. Using a "sson" last name and a typically Nordic name like Johan can work wonders. I believe Andersson is the most common last name in Sweden, so choosing a name like that will help ensure you get a better chance of an interview.
And lying to a potential employer right from the get-go is guaranteed to leave you out in the cold!

That aside, why bother about the family name when first name is more subtle. There is a sub-conscious difference between someone, for example, calling themselves "Johan Akbar" sompared to "Mohammed Andersson". Think about it.

The issue here is not discrimination per-se, but the OPs and others immediate reaction to the fact that they cannot get their foot through the door into the job market ...and immediately call racism, when there are soooooo many other factors involved in hiring someone, especially into an existing team. For example, I know companies that will not proceed with any part of the recruitment until they receive a minimum of 1 female applicant (not saying they want females, but HR policy states a minimum of 1 applicant regardless of whether they are reviewed or not), others who do the same but with regards 1 male applicant. I also know of many companies that will place their advertisements for a position detailing the role, yet do not mention that they require someone who has never worked in their specific business sector (they want fresh views of someone who has done similar role in other sectors).

That said, Sweden is incredibly discriminatory when it comes to AGE. It is recognised as a problem even amongst HR professionals and recruiting companies biggrin.gif ...there is a past historic reason with regards collective agreements as to why this is so, even though many collective agreements have now changed the understanding of the change has not. The best time for professional/management recruitment is between the age of 35-47, over 50 and it will be a struggle, under 35 and they worry about your kiddie years.

Posted by: Genaro 2.Nov.2016, 10:25 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 1.Nov.2016, 03:39 PM) *
And lying to a potential employer right from the get-go is guaranteed to leave you out in the cold!

That aside, why bother about the family name when first name is more subtle. There is a sub-conscious difference between someone, for example, calling themselves "Johan Akbar" sompared to "Mohammed Andersson". Think about it.

The issue here is not discrimination per-se, but the OPs and others immediate reaction to the fact that they cannot get their foot through the door into the job market ...and immediately call racism, when there are soooooo many other factors involved in hiring someone, especially into an existing team. For example, I know companies that will not proceed with any part of the recruitment until they receive a minimum of 1 female applicant (not saying they want females, but HR policy states a minimum of 1 applicant regardless of whether they are reviewed or not), others who do the same but with regards 1 male applicant. I also know of many companies that will place their advertisements for a position detailing the role, yet do not mention that they require someone who has never worked in their specific business sector (they want fresh views of someone who has done similar role in other sectors).

That said, Sweden is incredibly discriminatory when it comes to AGE. It is recognised as a problem even amongst HR professionals and recruiting companies biggrin.gif ...there is a past historic reason with regards collective agreements as to why this is so, even though many collective agreements have now changed the understanding of the change has not. The best time for professional/management recruitment is between the age of 35-47, over 50 and it will be a struggle, under 35 and they worry about your kiddie years.


Come on Yorkie, you're better than this.

1. It was implicit that any name change would be carried out legally via SV or whoever.
2. Job market; do you have any credible evidence to indicate that such a thing exists in Sweden?

If you carry on like this then Hisingen's job at the Swedish Tourist Board is definitely safe!

Posted by: LLHope 3.Nov.2016, 07:54 PM

QUOTE (newkidontheblock @ 27.Oct.2016, 09:41 AM) *
Adding a surname of my partner is the closes thing to a grey area I can do, without being completely dishonest as I don't want to fraud anyone, and since we are in sambo officially, it is one of those things that wouldn't cause too much of a frowned eye.
QUOTE (Genaro @ 2.Nov.2016, 10:25 PM) *
1. It was implicit that any name change would be carried out legally via SV or whoever.
No it was not.

QUOTE (Genaro @ 2.Nov.2016, 10:25 PM) *
2. Job market; do you have any credible evidence to indicate that such a thing exists in Sweden?
Seek and ye shall find... it has been the case for a long time. The main reason in the past was because Trade Union Collection Agreements had a clause that if an employer wanted to employed someone over a certain age, they had to check the candidates existing pension funds, and if those funds did not match (or above) the level that they should be according to current collective agreement and working age, then before the union would agree to the recruitment the employer had to agree a 1-off cash injection to the pension fund to bring the candidate to the required level. This was one clear case where whilst the unions believed they were doing something that benefited an employee, it actually had the opposite effect in terms of recruitment of older employees (and immigrants for that matter, and older immigrants for that matter as they became too expensive to employ over locals who had previously worked under collective agreements, especially professional). So much so that only in the last few years is it that the unions seems to realise their mistake and many collective agreements have been amended to reduce that clause to an option rather than being mandatory. however, many people who do recruitment don't keep up to date with what is actually in the collective agreements in detail.

QUOTE (Genaro @ 2.Nov.2016, 10:25 PM) *
Come on Yorkie
???

I certainly do remember Yorkie chocolate bars from my Youth smile.gif ...They used to be advertised with male truckers taking a bite of the chunky chocolate ...I wonder if there is a feminist equivalent nowadays?

Posted by: Bsmith 3.Nov.2016, 11:49 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 3.Nov.2016, 07:54 PM) *
I certainly do remember Yorkie chocolate bars from my Youth smile.gif ...They used to be advertised with male truckers taking a bite of the chunky chocolate ...I wonder if there is a feminist equivalent nowadays?



Yeah, they're called Porkies.

Posted by: Genaro 4.Nov.2016, 12:10 PM

QUOTE (Savage @ 3.Nov.2016, 09:53 PM) *
https://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showuser=119347

The forum collects IP login data on every visit.
And so can easily identify persons whom login in from the same location, and lists the usernames associated with that IP on all history.


Exactly. Yorkie (sic) became LLHope, purveyor of single source dross.

Posted by: wallace1837 15.Feb.2017, 10:07 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 27.Oct.2016, 08:34 AM) *
From OECD it exist everywhere ( https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-unemployment.htm ). Lets see what is the magnitude in some countries.

ratio = Unemployment foreign born/Unemployment native born
At ratio one no one has advantage.
At ratio above 1 the foreign born are more likely to be unemployed.
At ratio below 1 native born are more likely to be unemployed
At ratio 2 the foreign born are twice as likely to be unemployed compared to native born.
You get the idea.


2014 DATA from OECD
USA: Unemployment foreign born 5.8%, Unemployment native born 6.5%, ratio 0.89
Canada: Unemployment foreign born 7.8%, Unemployment native born 6.7%, ratio 1.16
Greece: Unemployment foreign born 34.5%, Unemployment native born 25.8%, ratio 1.34
Spain: Unemployment foreign born 33.3%, Unemployment native born 22.8%, ratio 1.46
Iceland: Unemployment foreign born 7.6%, Unemployment native born 4.8%, ratio 1.58
Finland: Unemployment foreign born 16.8%, Unemployment native born 8.3%, ratio 2.02
Sweden: Unemployment foreign born 16.4%, Unemployment native born 6.2%, ratio 2.65
Norway: Unemployment foreign born 7.9%, Unemployment native born 2.9%, ratio 2.72

In conclusion it discrimination may exist everywhere, but Sweden is pretty good at it!


Wow the OECD number had Sweden with a 2.65 in 2014, now with a different set of data (how comparable is this is up to interpretation), the same ratio is 5.13. More than 5 non Swedish born for every Swede on unemployment. They were good, and now they just get better at discrimination.
http://www.thelocal.se/20170213/this-map-shows-where-youre-most-likely-to-be-unemployed-in-sweden

Stay away from Sweden and be happy!

Posted by: Mib 15.Feb.2017, 02:01 PM

Sweden is not a racist country. However, it is discriminatory due to several reasons when you compare with the UK and USA. In my experience and observations, Sweden hasn't had the large influx of immigrants for generations like the UK and US, so there is a greater suspicion and as a result, they play safe and stick with a native Swede in most cases. In the UK, people from India and Eastern Europe are viewed as educated and hard workers and sometimes are preferred over native English who are viewed sometimes as less hard working.

Certifications that you have obtained while abroad are not recognised in Sweden. There is a long winded system which is trying to set the equivalents to a Swedish certification, but as I understand it takes a very long time. Also, the statistics of unemployed immigrants in Sweden is also very high, because Sweden has been the most welcoming country in Europe for many years to accept refugees and many of those refugees are not educated to the same level as we are in Europe and that makes it more difficult. However, a lot Syrian refugees are highly educated like PHDs, Doctors etc, but then put them in North Sweden where there are very little opportunities!

English is spoken everywhere. The Swedes speak perfect English, but the older generation are not always at the same level as their younger counterparts and so feel uncomfortable with that. However, Swedes do speak Swedish and eventually you either learn the language or limit yourself, unless you get lucky. It's part of integrating into society, the social aspects etc. I heard from one indian guy several years ago that one of the large international Management Consultancy firms in Sweden decided not to employ non-Swedish speaking people anymore as they found that they didn't progress as well as the Swedish speakers. So, that was purely a business decision.

You could do an experiment and send in a CV with a different name to companies who either reject you or don't respond to see if that works. Then if you're invited, you could explain to them at the interview why you did that and then charm them into giving you the job smile.gif.

To make you feel better, I have a Swedish friend who applied for jobs directly for development jobs, coding etc and he said that the big companies rarely respond. He did find it better when he went through agencies as then you would get some feedback. Ironically, he got his job via an agency in London for work in Sweden, whereas he said that several years earlier, that would never have happened. It would have been a Swedish agency. So, maybe that is a route to try if you haven't done that already.

Sweden is like any other country. it does have racists and I'm sure that has played its part in a small way, but if I ran a business, I would employ a native unless you had some skill/experience that was hard to get. In fact, my employer told me that exact same thing! So, highlight your uniqueness, your hard to get skills etc and that may improve your situation. I would even over play some of your skills...not exactly lie, but just make them sound better to get your foot in the door. As an immigrant, we have to try harder than a native. An alternative is to search for the most common or niche skills in your job area and do some training either via your company or privately in your own time. If you're a member of a Union, you can get some of the costs repaid back.

Good luck!

Posted by: delta76 15.Feb.2017, 02:10 PM

Good points Mib.

I think it's the same anywhere. If you are not fluent in their language, or if you don't understand the culture, that would be a negative in your application. If two applicants are the same in all matters, skills, experience, gratitude, but one can speak fluent Swedish and English, and one with broken Swedish and not so fluent English, who would be called?

Posted by: wallace1837 15.Feb.2017, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (delta76 @ 15.Feb.2017, 02:10 PM) *
Good points Mib.

I think it's the same anywhere. If you are not fluent in their language, or if you don't understand the culture, that would be a negative in your application. If two applicants are the same in all matters, skills, experience, gratitude, but one can speak fluent Swedish and English, and one with broken Swedish and not so fluent English, who would be called?

USA and Canada have a roughly one to one ratio. Sweden is 5 to one. Saying "it's the same anywhere" is denying facts.
http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=86084&view=findpost&p=900219

Posted by: delta76 15.Feb.2017, 09:05 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 15.Feb.2017, 07:56 PM) *
USA and Canada have a roughly one to one ratio. Sweden is 5 to one. Saying "it's the same anywhere" is denying facts.
http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=86084&view=findpost&p=900219


I'm really tired with you trying to bash Sweden every chance you have. This is the last time I reply to you.

You are comparing orange and apple. The link you posted has nothing to do with this thread.
The point of OP was he/she was denied a job because of his/her origin - assuming that he/she has comparable skills/experiences with other applicants. I pointed out that languages/culture is another hidden factor that he/she did not consider. If he/she is superior in skills/experiences than Sweden-born competitors, enough to fill the gap of languages/culture then there should be no problem finding a job.

If the foreign born people have no comparable skills/experience with Sweden born competitors, they basically stand no chance. Sweden has taken the highest number of refugees per capita, far more than any other country in the list. Those refugees, not all, but a majority, are under-educated, with very few sellable skills, speak broken English and almost no Swedish. What do you think the chance for them to find a job?

Posted by: wallace1837 16.Feb.2017, 09:59 AM

Does anyone have access to data where the co factors of education and Swedish born status is compiled along unemployment? I would really like to convince myself of the above hypothesis.

I would also be really curious if the type of permit have an impact on your probability of unemployment. I know it is tricky for primary holder of work permit, because if they lose their job the have to leave rather quickly. It is more about sambo and dependent visa (associated with primary work permit holder) for partners. I would be really curious if their unemployment rate is below the ~20%.

I think this is really useful information to know if your an expat and consider going to Sweden with your partner. If you talk to Swedes they will tell you it is rather easy to get a job (since their unemployment rate is ~5%, comparable to USA and Canada), but the reality of the foreign born in Sweden may be quite different (right now, the only stat I have that closely relate to foreign born is they have a ~20% unemployment rate). http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=86084&view=findpost&p=900219

Once again, it is great that people disagree with each other. A forum is a nice place to do so while collecting data to make informed decisions, or build informed opinion.

Posted by: rex 10.Jul.2017, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 16.Feb.2017, 10:59 AM) *
Does anyone have access to data where the co factors of education and Swedish born status is compiled along unemployment? I would really like to convince myself of the above hypothesis.

I would also be really curious if the type of permit have an impact on your probability of unemployment. I know it is tricky for primary holder of work permit, because if they lose their job the have to leave rather quickly. It is more about sambo and dependent visa (associated with primary work permit holder) for partners. I would be really curious if their unemployment rate is below the ~20%.


The OECD number is accurate because unemployment rates do not account for those who are studying full-time, which encompasses most refugees without a degree; most of them either have a job or are studying. The unemployment rate represents people who are actively searching for a job.

The estimates for other countries are computed in exactly the same way, so the comparison is valid. Some people don't like the conclusions because they implicate that foreign-born residents in Sweden do not have good access to the labor force, but that is a question for another time.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 10.Jul.2017, 09:51 PM

Unemployment statistics are very misleading...everywhere...

In the US, if you cannot find full time work and accept a part time job, you are no longer unemployed...I think it should be counted as half employed...

If you cannot find a job and cease searching, you are not counted as unemployed even though others are supporting you...Not fair!!!

And what about people who are reemployed way below their previous salary income level???

Posted by: superdrive 10.Jul.2017, 10:08 PM

"There are also some stores in Sweden that sell skin bleach, often in places like Afro hair stores etc. This can help give you more of a "European" look."

The guy is not from Somalia, he's slavic. He doesn't need skin bleach to look more white. WTF.

Posted by: rex 10.Jul.2017, 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 10.Jul.2017, 10:51 PM) *
Unemployment statistics are very misleading...everywhere...

In the US, if you cannot find full time work and accept a part time job, you are no longer unemployed...I think it should be counted as half employed...

If you cannot find a job and cease searching, you are not counted as unemployed even though others are supporting you...Not fair!!!

And what about people who are reemployed way below their previous salary income level???


Not for the sake of the comparison, the OECD number is good enough to discover potential differences between countries, just like it has.

Some might say that it's okay, that's how it's supposed to be, after all Sweden is for Swedes and all that story, however, don't forget that unemployment among immigrants is measured for people who have the right to stay in Sweden, i.e., they're not going anywhere. Therefore, such discriminatory ideologies lead to greater socio-economic differences between immigrants and natives, which opens the door to a society where you have two classes of citizens. This is a recipe for disaster especially in a society like Sweden where ten percent of the population is comprised of first and second generation immigrants.

Posted by: wallace1837 10.Jul.2017, 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 10.Jul.2017, 08:51 PM) *
Unemployment statistics are very misleading...everywhere...

In the US, if you cannot find full time work and accept a part time job, you are no longer unemployed...I think it should be counted as half employed...

If you cannot find a job and cease searching, you are not counted as unemployed even though others are supporting you...Not fair!!!

And what about people who are reemployed way below their previous salary income level???

Show me the data!

All cool hypothesis to test with data. In the meantime we can speculate on what it would change compare to what we have data to rely on. Until then I will based my opinion on information supported by data, like in the OECD study.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 10.Jul.2017, 10:41 PM

My post was to show possible differences to how unemployment statistics are achieved...nothing else, I don't have to prove anything...Some do it one way another does it differently...

Trust what you want...

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 10.Jul.2017, 10:45 PM

"There are also some stores in Sweden that sell skin bleach, often in places like Afro hair stores etc. This can help give you more of a "European" look."

Stores sell what customers need and ask for...everywhere!!!

Posted by: rex 10.Jul.2017, 10:56 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 10.Jul.2017, 11:15 PM) *
Show me the data!

All cool hypothesis to test with data. In the meantime we can speculate on what it would change compare to what we have data to rely on. Until then I will based my opinion on information supported by data, like in the OECD study.



I think I found the data you were looking for. Just google "Employment rates by place of birth and educational attainment" It's an OECD table.

Check the attached table below.


Posted by: Svedallas 12.Jul.2017, 09:22 AM

QUOTE (superdrive @ 10.Jul.2017, 11:08 PM) *
"There are also some stores in Sweden that sell skin bleach, often in places like Afro hair stores etc. This can help give you more of a "European" look."

The guy is not from Somalia, he's slavic. He doesn't need skin bleach to look more white. WTF.


And who was it that said Savage works for BBC?
This is the advice that was given...Yes. WTF.

Posted by: wallace1837 17.Jul.2017, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (rex @ 10.Jul.2017, 10:56 PM) *
I think I found the data you were looking for. Just google "Employment rates by place of birth and educational attainment" It's an OECD table.

Check the attached table below.


Thanks that show that discrimination is across the education spectrum. Swedes are really good at discriminating against foreign born. And even when foreigners find job in Sweden, they are paid less! https://www.thelocal.se/jobs/article/foreign-graduates-earn-less-than-swedes-study

Stay out of Sweden and be happy!

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 17.Jul.2017, 07:04 PM

What purpose is served by letting people that are different than native Swedes into Sweden???

And then denying them fair treatment, or is fair treatment in the eye of the beholder???

Posted by: wallace1837 17.Jul.2017, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 17.Jul.2017, 06:04 PM) *
What purpose is served by letting people that are different than native Swedes into Sweden???

And then denying them fair treatment, or is fair treatment in the eye of the beholder???

Swedes like to pretend they are welcoming and they are in denial about the treatment they give to foreign workers, so they keep inviting foreigners...

Posted by: rex 17.Jul.2017, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 17.Jul.2017, 08:04 PM) *
What purpose is served by letting people that are different than native Swedes into Sweden???

And then denying them fair treatment, or is fair treatment in the eye of the beholder???


From what I've seen it mostly comes down to the argument that they would have been killed or simply lived much worse lives back at home, so whatever they're getting in Sweden is already enough for them. You've got a job because *we* gave it to you and not because you are sufficiently qualified for it. This is (mostly) fine for the parents but when the children face similar discrimination then you get riots like the last one in Stockholm.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 17.Jul.2017, 09:06 PM

What happens when Sweden has more foreigners than jobs, do they stop them from coming to Sweden and risk being branded as racists???

Posted by: wallace1837 17.Jul.2017, 10:54 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 17.Jul.2017, 08:06 PM) *
What happens when Sweden has more foreigners than jobs, do they stop them from coming to Sweden and risk being branded as racists???

They invited every single non eu foreign worker. They didn't just showed up.

You should ask, why Sweden delivered so many work permit and now wants to see those employees overthrown and replace by native Swedes.

The answer is pretty simple and you already wrote it down.

Posted by: maxrax 18.Jul.2017, 09:47 AM

QUOTE (rex @ 17.Jul.2017, 09:58 PM) *
From what I've seen it mostly comes down to the argument that they would have been killed or simply lived much worse lives back at home, so whatever they're getting in Sweden is already enough for them. You've got a job because *we* gave it to you and not because you are sufficiently qualified for it. This is (mostly) fine for the parents but when the children face similar discrimination then you get riots like the last one in Stockholm.


very good point and frankly a dangerous path for Sweden to go down. Hopefully things will change in the future.

Posted by: Svedallas 18.Jul.2017, 11:17 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 17.Jul.2017, 11:54 PM) *
They invited every single non eu foreign worker. They didn't just showed up.

You should ask, why Sweden delivered so many work permit and now wants to see those employees overthrown and replace by native Swedes.

The answer is pretty simple and you already wrote it down.


How were non EU "invited"?

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Jul.2017, 01:14 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 18.Jul.2017, 11:17 AM) *
How were non EU "invited"?

With an "offer of employment" by the employer, backed by the union and approved by migrationsverket. None of that can be imposed by the applicant.
https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Other-operators-English/Employers/Employing-people-from-non-EU-countries-/Work-permit-requirements.html

Posted by: Svedallas 18.Jul.2017, 02:17 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 18.Jul.2017, 02:14 PM) *
With an "offer of employment" by the employer, backed by the union and approved by migrationsverket. None of that can be imposed by the applicant.
https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Other-operators-English/Employers/Employing-people-from-non-EU-countries-/Work-permit-requirements.html



No. You are wrong!

You were not "invited" - the job, as many jobs, is for anyone who is rightfully qualified and has the right qualifications necessary for the job.

This process is the same for many migration processes in the world, for any job to which an applicant is qualifies. Simple as that.

The same "invite" could also be the same for a job in the US, or any job in Europe.

Only because you had a bad experience, does not mean you should blame the system fully.Rules are rules for foreign work permits. It is temporary, and if they think a home resident fits, so be it. Try another country.

Posted by: wallace1837 18.Jul.2017, 06:56 PM

I love to be proven wrong...

No non-eu workers could not unilaterally decide to come and work in Sweden. They had to acquire work permit (and sometime visa) that can only be requested by employer.

Posted by: Svedallas 18.Jul.2017, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 18.Jul.2017, 07:56 PM) *
I love to be proven wrong...

No non-eu workers could not unilaterally decide to come and work in Sweden. They had to acquire work permit (and sometime visa) that can only be requested by employer.


What is the difference with the H1B?
Same thing, different country.

Request also has to be requested by employer.

Posted by: HerrLagom 20.Jul.2017, 07:53 PM

At least be happy to be white.
If you are have a muslim or "black" sounding name, you will meet less responses.

Sweden is very progressive compared to so many countries, yet there is still a lack. no country is free from that. I would go so far, that you will encounter this more in Northern/Western-Europe than in the rest of the world.

Posted by: Svedallas 20.Jul.2017, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (HerrLagom @ 20.Jul.2017, 08:53 PM) *
At least be happy to be white.
If you are have a muslim or "black" sounding name, you will meet less responses.

Sweden is very progressive compared to so many countries, yet there is still a lack. no country is free from that. I would go so far, that you will encounter this more in Northern/Western-Europe than in the rest of the world.


What is a "black" sounding name?

I have met a Black American with a last name "Jones"...

Posted by: wallace1837 20.Jul.2017, 10:25 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 20.Jul.2017, 09:37 PM) *
What is a "black" sounding name?

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/top-20-whitest-blackest-names/story?id=2470131

Posted by: Svedallas 20.Jul.2017, 10:48 PM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 20.Jul.2017, 11:25 PM) *
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/top-20-whitest-blackest-names/story?id=2470131


This is Europe.
NOT America...

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 21.Jul.2017, 12:14 AM

In the Muslim world would Jesus Jorgensson, get many job offers???

Posted by: axiom 21.Jul.2017, 12:30 AM

Black migrant here - can't speak for everyone but finding a job has never been an issue.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 21.Jul.2017, 12:46 AM

Good post, thank you...You just broke a lot of Swede bashers hearts...And rightly so...

Posted by: Svedallas 21.Jul.2017, 10:32 AM

QUOTE (axiom @ 21.Jul.2017, 01:30 AM) *
Black migrant here - can't speak for everyone but finding a job has never been an issue.


Good one! At least someone sees the point!
Nothing to do with names.

Posted by: Svedallas 21.Jul.2017, 10:37 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 21.Jul.2017, 01:14 AM) *
In the Muslim world would Jesus Jorgensson, get many job offers???


The same for muslim names.

Would a "Muhammed" or "Ahmed" get a job in Sweden? I would say it would be overlooked...

Would a "Muhammed" who studied at Oxford University, a Bachelor, and a Masters graduate, and speaks fluent Swedish. It would get a look.

I would say that Muslim names stand far out more, and with all the politics, the Muslims would have to work twice as hard and have more skills than anyone.

If it is an Eastern European name, it is no longer unusual. I know a few people from Balkans, who moved here in 80s, who are very integrated with an Eastern European name.

So to answer, discrimination is no longer based on heritage, but it maybe because of religion.

Posted by: Bsmith 21.Jul.2017, 11:31 AM

To have a Muslim sounding name is a hindrance in the West due to all the bad publicity from the Islamic jihadists and terrorists. Can you blame people for feeling that way? Every time some attack happens, the press interviews the terrorist's neighbors and they express shock, "he was such a nice man, very quiet, kept to himself, loved kids, etc, etc." The press makes it sound as if rational, sane Muslims are put in some kind of trance as they become "radicalized". One day the average Joe Muslim is a kind citizen and then he/she watches some ISIS video online and *ZAP* suddenly a seething, radical terrorist is born. Any employer has to have the thought in the back of their mind, "he/she seems ok now, but what if they become radicalized and come in to work one day and shoot or stab everybody?"

Posted by: Svedallas 21.Jul.2017, 03:51 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 21.Jul.2017, 12:31 PM) *
To have a Muslim sounding name is a hindrance in the West due to all the bad publicity from the Islamic jihadists and terrorists. Can you blame people for feeling that way? Every time some attack happens, the press interviews the terrorist's neighbors and they express shock, "he was such a nice man, very quiet, kept to himself, loved kids, etc, etc." The press makes it sound as if rational, sane Muslims are put in some kind of trance as they become "radicalized". One day the average Joe Muslim is a kind citizen and then he/she watches some ISIS video online and *ZAP* suddenly a seething, radical terrorist is born. Any employer has to have the thought in the back of their mind, "he/she seems ok now, but what if they become radicalized and come in to work one day and shoot or stab everybody?"


Yes, this is the problem. It is the radicalized muslims. It will only get tougher.
It will soon be a matter of time when ombudsman start to get complaints.
But can it be helped? no. The same is in all of Europe.

Women with hijabs will face job discrimination almost immediately.
(It is intimidating to Swedes)

The only time I have seen a Muslim woman work with a hijab, is at a fast food restaurant...this is why they opt to just bear more children I suppose.

Posted by: Bsmith 22.Jul.2017, 02:29 AM

Yeah I suppose it is tough to be a Muslim in the West. They sure are quick to adopt the victim pose when the natives object to the terrorism. But I wonder how many of these "victims" actually support the terrorists in their heart.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 22.Jul.2017, 04:30 AM

I am surprised at your naivety, if the Muslim community wanted the terror attacks to stop it would happen in a New York minute, they know who they are and hide them in their communities...

Over here after 9/11, some prominent Muslims were asked about the attack, they all said it was a terrible thing, and then added we know why it happened, and then went on to explain why...Their attitude was plain to see and they knew it was going to happen, and did nothing to stop it...In those days you could almost see the satisfactory smirk...

Posted by: LLHope 22.Jul.2017, 10:14 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 17.Jul.2017, 06:44 PM) *
Thanks that show that discrimination is across the education spectrum. Swedes are really good at discriminating against foreign born

You make the assumption that education is the factor that is used when employers select new employees. I get the picture that you have the socialist/communist belief that employers should not be able to choose their employees and build effective teams?

For example, if I have a team of young male devout muslim developers, how effective would the team be in my business if I then employed a highly educated lesbian jewish women to be the team leader?

I have a responsibility to my shareholders to maximise returns on their investments, it is not my role to enable your failing social policies!

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 17.Jul.2017, 10:54 PM) *
You should ask, why Sweden delivered so many work permit and now wants to see those employees overthrown and replace by native Swedes.

Because the Social Democrats are almost entirely funded by LO (which is also why LO and S are very afraid that more and more LO members support SD, S risks losing it's main sponsor).

In addition to that is the general political purpose behind immigration policy. Center-Right want to increase foreign worker immigration because it reduces wage inflation and those workers tend not to join trade unions. Center-Left want immigration of non-workers, or in low/non skilled low paid jobs, because they become more and more dependent upon welfare benefits to survive (a poverty trap is maintained), and tend to vote center-left in order to keep the benefit levels.

Posted by: Svedallas 26.Jul.2017, 10:58 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 22.Jul.2017, 11:14 AM) *
You make the assumption that education is the factor that is used when employers select new employees. I get the picture that you have the socialist/communist belief that employers should not be able to choose their employees and build effective teams?

For example, if I have a team of young male devout muslim developers, how effective would the team be in my business if I then employed a highly educated lesbian jewish women to be the team leader?

I have a responsibility to my shareholders to maximise returns on their investments, it is not my role to enable your failing social policies!


Because the Social Democrats are almost entirely funded by LO (which is also why LO and S are very afraid that more and more LO members support SD, S risks losing it's main sponsor).

In addition to that is the general political purpose behind immigration policy. Center-Right want to increase foreign worker immigration because it reduces wage inflation and those workers tend not to join trade unions. Center-Left want immigration of non-workers, or in low/non skilled low paid jobs, because they become more and more dependent upon welfare benefits to survive (a poverty trap is maintained), and tend to vote center-left in order to keep the benefit levels.



"Center-Right want to increase foreign worker immigration because it reduces wage inflation and those workers tend not to join trade unions. Center-Left want immigration of non-workers, or in low/non skilled low paid jobs, because they become more and more dependent upon welfare benefits to survive (a poverty trap is maintained), and tend to vote center-left in order to keep the benefit levels.?


I think Center-left has changed their strategy. There is a sharp increase in rejections, and deportations.

Instead, what they really should be doing, is changing the salary requirement so that Sweden will only attract people who add value to the workforce, and have actual skills that are hard to find.

A minimum salary requirement of 20,000kr after tax will attract more skilled workers


Look at what America has done with H1B! Minimum salary is $130,000 for a work permit. Many Swedes who lived there now are returning back to Sweden...

Posted by: delta76 26.Jul.2017, 11:08 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 26.Jul.2017, 09:58 AM) *
I think Center-left has changed their strategy. There is a sharp increase in rejections, and deportations.

The strategy has turned out to be a mess. I'd be surprised if they haven't changed.

Posted by: Svedallas 26.Jul.2017, 11:14 AM

QUOTE (delta76 @ 26.Jul.2017, 12:08 PM) *
The strategy has turned out to be a mess. I'd be surprised if they haven't changed.


There is a lot of talk of changes. But it is a waiting game.
For now they will continue with deportations.

It is overdue that they change the minimum salary requirement.

It will reduce the number of visa applications pending, and only serious applicants who are getting serious jobs and not low jobs be part of the process.

Posted by: Gjeebes 27.Jul.2017, 05:11 AM

What? Has Sweden foregone its infatuation with illiterate goat herders?

"It will reduce the number of visa applications pending, and only serious applicants who are getting serious jobs and not low jobs be part of the process."

Wow! And just think, 2 years ago, only in Sweden, such words would have constituted a "hate-crime" investigation!

Bravo! Sweden slowly starts to realise common sense isn't just code for racism after-all!

Posted by: TLSucks 27.Jul.2017, 08:43 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 26.Jul.2017, 09:58 AM) *
Look at what America has done with H1B! Minimum salary is $130,000 for a work permit. Many Swedes who lived there now are returning back to Sweden...


No, that bill has not passed yet; it is still $60k.

Posted by: Svedallas 27.Jul.2017, 09:03 AM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 27.Jul.2017, 06:11 AM) *
What? Has Sweden foregone its infatuation with illiterate goat herders?

"It will reduce the number of visa applications pending, and only serious applicants who are getting serious jobs and not low jobs be part of the process."

Wow! And just think, 2 years ago, only in Sweden, such words would have constituted a "hate-crime" investigation!

Bravo! Sweden slowly starts to realise common sense isn't just code for racism after-all!


It has been an ongoing problem...
How on earth does a pizza baker get a work permit? That is now a thing of a past.

Over 400 rejections in the past few months. They finally see importance of issuing visas to those who have real skill-set, and make workforce competitive.

Posted by: Svedallas 27.Jul.2017, 09:08 AM

QUOTE (TLSucks @ 27.Jul.2017, 09:43 AM) *
No, that bill has not passed yet; it is still $60k.


Even though it hasn't employers are now less inclined to help those with sponsorship, in case it does pass. They don't want to have to pay that salary, especially for those outside of big cities, and for seasonal workers...

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Jul.2017, 09:08 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 27.Jul.2017, 08:03 AM) *
It has been an ongoing problem...
How on earth does a pizza baker get a work permit? That is now a thing of a past.

Over 400 rejections in the past few months. They finally see importance of issuing visas to those who have real skill-set, and make workforce competitive.

And then they go overboard https://www.sydsvenskan.se/2017-02-19/spotifys-anstallda-riskerar-utvisning

Posted by: Svedallas 27.Jul.2017, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 27.Jul.2017, 10:08 AM) *
And then they go overboard https://www.sydsvenskan.se/2017-02-19/spotifys-anstallda-riskerar-utvisning


Priority is now being given to those who are already permanent residents (low skilled refugees) or citizens.
Many jobs do/did not require a foreign worker + permit

The ones who've found it difficult to enter the job market: new university graduates, young teenagers looking for trainee exp, high school graduate trying get an entry job.

Guess this was the only solution. Also, many Swedes are forced to move to other neighboring countries just to find jobs. So this seems fair.

wallace1837 - get over it.

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Jul.2017, 09:32 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 27.Jul.2017, 09:24 AM) *
Priority is now being given to those who are already permanent residents (low skilled refugees) or citizens.
Many jobs do/did not require a permit.

The ones who have suffered are new university graduates, young teenagers looking for trainee exp, high school graduate trying get an entry job...

wallace1837 - get over it.

Are you really saying tht migrationsverket are giving priority to Swedish citizen! What service are they proving to them... Ah, getting rid of foreigners!

Look at all the IT cases and you will see that people suffer as well. It is not a contest of who suffers more.

On top of that people who are out of Sweden should consider themselves lucky, so those university graduates will have the opportunity to re-evaluate if it is worth waiting to get a poor education in Sweden http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/07/13/us-student-sues-university-in-sweden-over-useless-degree-and-win/ .

Posted by: Svedallas 27.Jul.2017, 09:37 AM

QUOTE (wallace1837 @ 27.Jul.2017, 10:32 AM) *
Are you really saying tht migrationsverket are giving priority to Swedish citizen! What service are they proving to them... Ah, getting rid of foreigners!

Look at all the IT cases and you will see that people suffer as well. It is not a contest of who suffers more.

On top of that people who are out of Sweden should consider themselves lucky, so those university graduates will have the opportunity to re-evaluate if it is worth waiting to get a poor education in Sweden http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/07/13/us-student-sues-university-in-sweden-over-useless-degree-and-win/ .


I am not saying that at all. I am saying that priority is probably been given to those who do not need a permit at all.

This also includes, EU citizens, those who got temporary refugee status, as well as expats, who are married/sambo with a Swede and moved to Sweden who struggle to find work, but have residency.

Poor education or not, those who are permanent residents that do study here, should get a right. This is why it is the law to post a job on arbetsformedlingen first. But that did not work.

But, what you are saying is all IT and low skilled jobs should automatically go to foreigners??

Posted by: Bsmith 27.Jul.2017, 11:26 AM

Never been a believer in "affirmative action" type employment policies. The employer should have the right to employ the most qualified candidate and if that isn't you, then you have the obligation to improve your skills to make yourself more likely to be hired.

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Jul.2017, 11:59 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 27.Jul.2017, 08:37 AM) *
But, what you are saying is all IT and low skilled jobs should automatically go to foreigners??

No.

Posted by: Svedallas 27.Jul.2017, 12:03 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 27.Jul.2017, 12:26 PM) *
Never been a believer in "affirmative action" type employment policies. The employer should have the right to employ the most qualified candidate and if that isn't you, then you have the obligation to improve your skills to make yourself more likely to be hired.


I agree.

Posted by: Bsmith 27.Jul.2017, 01:08 PM

Seriously, when I came to Sweden it was readily apparent that I did not posses the language skills to work in my chosen profession so I took any job I could find and felt fortunate to be employed. I enrolled in SFI and, if we had stayed, it would have been my goal to become fluent. As an immigrant, I always felt that it was my obligation to meet Sweden's needs and not vice versa.

Posted by: delta76 27.Jul.2017, 03:05 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 27.Jul.2017, 01:08 PM) *
Seriously, when I came to Sweden it was readily apparent that I did not posses the language skills to work in my chosen profession so I took any job I could find and felt fortunate to be employed. I enrolled in SFI and, if we had stayed, it would have been my goal to become fluent. As an immigrant, I always felt that it was my obligation to meet Sweden's needs and not vice versa.

that's the spirit
We can't come to another country and expect to be "at home". We were not born here, were not raised here, did not understand the culture and could not speak the language fluently. If anything, we have to put more effort, sometimes, double, than the natives.

Posted by: wallace1837 27.Jul.2017, 07:06 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 27.Jul.2017, 08:37 AM) *
I am not saying that at all. I am saying that priority is probably been given to those who do not need a permit at all.

This also includes, EU citizens, those who got temporary refugee status, as well as expats, who are married/sambo with a Swede and moved to Sweden who struggle to find work, but have residency.

Maybe, maybe not: https://universitetslararen.se/2017/03/30/svensk-lektor-fast-i-migrationsverkets-byrakrati/

Posted by: Bsmith 27.Jul.2017, 09:55 PM

QUOTE (delta76 @ 27.Jul.2017, 02:05 PM) *
that's the spirit
We can't come to another country and expect to be "at home". We were not born here, were not raised here, did not understand the culture and could not speak the language fluently. If anything, we have to put more effort, sometimes, double, than the natives.


Yeah, I've never understood those that feel as if Sweden owes them a comfortable living.

Posted by: gsurya 28.Jul.2017, 07:05 AM

QUOTE (delta76 @ 27.Jul.2017, 02:05 PM) *
that's the spirit
We can't come to another country and expect to be "at home". We were not born here, were not raised here, did not understand the culture and could not speak the language fluently. If anything, we have to put more effort, sometimes, double, than the natives.


I am a software industry pro who first went to the US on an H1B, then moved to Denmark for a few years, then Singapore & then to Sweden for a couple before returning to India a few years ago.

To be able to live 'comfortably' & integrate into the Danish & Swedish society, it is indeed necessary to learn the local language. I did try to learn Danish, but just wasnt up to it - learning a completely new language at 35 was much more difficult than I imagined it would be.

I might be back in Sweden later this year for another stint, maybe this time I will try SFI.

As for racism & discrimination, of the countries I lived/worked in other than India, I faced it most in Denmark/Norway/Germany/Sweden/Hong Kong, lesser in USA/UK/Australia & least in Singapore. But we have racism & discrimination of various types even in India so I dont judge other countries too much.

The world needs to get better & more inclusive & the richer/western countries have to take the lead. I thought this was happening over the years, but social media has empowered the vicious racist hatemongers more than those who want to spread inclusion & peace - lets hope its a phase & we get better in future.

Posted by: Svedallas 28.Jul.2017, 09:20 AM

QUOTE (gsurya @ 28.Jul.2017, 08:05 AM) *
I am a software industry pro who first went to the US on an H1B, then moved to Denmark for a few years, then Singapore & then to Sweden for a couple before returning to India a few years ago.

To be able to live 'comfortably' & integrate into the Danish & Swedish society, it is indeed necessary to learn the local language. I did try to learn Danish, but just wasnt up to it - learning a completely new language at 35 was much more difficult than I imagined it would be.

I might be back in Sweden later this year for another stint, maybe this time I will try SFI.

As for racism & discrimination, of the countries I lived/worked in other than India, I faced it most in Denmark/Norway/Germany/Sweden/Hong Kong, lesser in USA/UK/Australia & least in Singapore. But we have racism & discrimination of various types even in India so I dont judge other countries too much.

The world needs to get better & more inclusive & the richer/western countries have to take the lead. I thought this was happening over the years, but social media has empowered the vicious racist hatemongers more than those who want to spread inclusion & peace - lets hope its a phase & we get better in future.


+1

"To be able to live 'comfortably' & integrate into the Danish & Swedish society, it is indeed necessary to learn the local language."

Exactly, it is vital!!

Posted by: Svedallas 28.Jul.2017, 10:32 AM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 28.Jul.2017, 10:20 AM) *
+1

"To be able to live 'comfortably' & integrate into the Danish & Swedish society, it is indeed necessary to learn the local language."

Exactly, it is vital!!


It is also up to the individual to put language as a priority.

How many threads do you see about people trying to learn the language or about trying to integrate? NONE.

There are more threads about people getting visas and behold, citizenship waiting time, yet they probably can't even speak the language?

Posted by: Bsmith 28.Jul.2017, 12:16 PM

QUOTE (gsurya @ 28.Jul.2017, 07:05 AM) *
The world needs to get better & more inclusive & the richer/western countries have to take the lead. I thought this was happening over the years, but social media has empowered the vicious racist hatemongers more than those who want to spread inclusion & peace - lets hope its a phase & we get better in future.



I am going to take a little askance with this statement. While it certainly would be wonderful if all countries had a goal of peace, I believe it starts with us as individuals. Putting the responsibility off on the rich, Western countries is just a way of avoiding our own responsibility. And it's easy to blame social media for all the negativity in the world but the root cause is us. People are capable of great acts of kindness and, at the same time, incredible evil as well. Each of us must decide what we want to work toward.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 28.Jul.2017, 12:46 PM

When enough third world peoples occupy first world countries, there will be two third worlds...

Camp of The Saints, anyone???

Posted by: Svedallas 28.Jul.2017, 12:48 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 28.Jul.2017, 01:16 PM) *
I am going to take a little askance with this statement. While it certainly would be wonderful if all countries had a goal of peace, I believe it starts with us as individuals. Putting the responsibility off on the rich, Western countries is just a way of avoiding our own responsibility. And it's easy to blame social media for all the negativity in the world but the root cause is us. People are capable of great acts of kindness and, at the same time, incredible evil as well. Each of us must decide what we want to work toward.


You have a point.
"richer/western countries have to take the lead"
True to an EXTENT.

With recent current political turmoil in the Middle East (and North Africa), as well as cultural, religious/ideological belief systems. Even though the West may be able to help, take the responsibility and accept the burden, there is a clear abuse of the Western countries systems i.e. benefit system. Look at the most "generous" countries, like Germany, Sweden, Italy, France and Greece, they are taking the most heat, and still people go as far as to lie about their age, what country they are from, so they can benefit from the West systems.


So they can take the lead. But the individual should not be so dependent.
They need to use it as a platform for growth to build, for themselves of their home countries.

Posted by: Bsmith 28.Jul.2017, 03:14 PM

And to take a hard look at themselves, their culture and whatever it is that is holding them back.

Posted by: gsurya 28.Jul.2017, 04:14 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 28.Jul.2017, 12:46 PM) *
When enough third world peoples occupy first world countries, there will be two third worlds...

Camp of The Saints, anyone???


Umm.. it was the so-called 'First World' Britain who occupied India for over nearly 200 years & ravaged our economy, which was one of the top in the world back then. That is why we are called 'Third World' now by the ignorant.

Posted by: gsurya 28.Jul.2017, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 28.Jul.2017, 12:16 PM) *
I am going to take a little askance with this statement. While it certainly would be wonderful if all countries had a goal of peace, I believe it starts with us as individuals. Putting the responsibility off on the rich, Western countries is just a way of avoiding our own responsibility. And it's easy to blame social media for all the negativity in the world but the root cause is us. People are capable of great acts of kindness and, at the same time, incredible evil as well. Each of us must decide what we want to work toward.


Completely wrong. As individuals, most people want a quiet, peaceful & comfortable life, that is all. It is Governments that blunder into conflicts in the name of their citizens.

Rich/Western countries do have a greater responsibility to fix things because they did invade & rule over most of the rest of the world in the past centuries - ill effects of those dont suddenly disappear.

That is not to absolve the rest of the countries of their responsibilities - in fact, it is the rich/Western USA that has messed with the well balanced Paris climate agreement, agreed to by the rest of the world!

Posted by: Bsmith 28.Jul.2017, 10:03 PM

QUOTE (gsurya @ 28.Jul.2017, 05:35 PM) *
Completely wrong. As individuals, most people want a quiet, peaceful & comfortable life, that is all. It is Governments that blunder into conflicts in the name of their citizens.

Rich/Western countries do have a greater responsibility to fix things because they did invade & rule over most of the rest of the world in the past centuries - ill effects of those dont suddenly disappear.

That is not to absolve the rest of the countries of their responsibilities - in fact, it is the rich/Western USA that has messed with the well balanced Paris climate agreement, agreed to by the rest of the world!


And, yet here you are spouting off your own brand of hate...hate against the West. Sorry, but your brand of hate is no better than anybody else's.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 29.Jul.2017, 08:58 AM

Under The Raj, India was unified and had a central government, the efficient and well known Civil Service is still the model used in India today...

India was/is better off today as a result of being colonized by the British...

If the "colonized" countries of the world, had the ability would they not be colonizers too???

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 01:40 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 29.Jul.2017, 09:58 AM) *
India was/is better off today as a result of being colonized by the British...


Ah yes, the classic cliche Anglo response. Always stated by Anglos when this topic comes up. Always vehemently denied by Indians. I suggest you post it on an Indian forum. The response might surprise you.


Were the Indians better off by being forced to import goods from UK mills? Were they better off by being beaten and imprisoned for starting cottage industries of their own? Also, the railroads weren't built to carry Desis from points A to B. They were built to carry riches to the coast and out of the country. Do you reckon hundreds of years of divide and conquer has been good for India? Do you reckon rubber stamped prison terms by the colonial "justice system" directed towards anyone that showed even a tiny bit of insubordination has benefited India? And you praise the great civil service... You don't sound like you've ever been to India.

Posted by: LLHope 31.Jul.2017, 05:55 AM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 01:40 AM) *
Ah yes, the classic cliche Anglo response. Always stated by Anglos when this topic comes up. Always vehemently denied by Indians. I suggest you post it on an Indian forum. The response might surprise you.


Were the Indians better off by being forced to import goods from UK mills? Were they better off by being beaten and imprisoned for starting cottage industries of their own? Also, the railroads weren't built to carry Desis from points A to B. They were built to carry riches to the coast and out of the country. Do you reckon hundreds of years of divide and conquer has been good for India? Do you reckon rubber stamped prison terms by the colonial "justice system" directed towards anyone that showed even a tiny bit of insubordination has benefited India? And you praise the great civil service... You don't sound like you've ever been to India.

Do you reckon they would have had by now:
- A parliamentary democracy
- the international relationships they have now
- being one of the largest producers of English speaking graduates
- success in call center services (because of language and the international relationships)
- success in IT services (because of language and the international relationships)
...and more...

And let's not forget that in such a high population country the British never had more than 70.000 troops, the Indians themselves were more than willing to participate unsure.gif

Posted by: Gjeebes 31.Jul.2017, 07:34 AM

And let's not forget, Gandhi was a lawyer in South Africa, and wore, a suit! He only donned the local loincloth garb to embellish his appearance to become more believable that he was "one with the people" (i.e. more peasant like)!

Imagine if in all the photos of him leading the protests, he still had cuffs, a tie, and polished shoes!

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 10:22 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 31.Jul.2017, 06:55 AM) *
Do you reckon they would have had by now:

Maybe. I do not do alternate history. And I do not answer rhetorical questions posed by people that fail to answer any. Also, post hoc ergo propter hoc. You could just as well ask yourself if India is dirty 'cause Britain is dirty.



QUOTE (LLHope @ 31.Jul.2017, 06:55 AM) *
the British never had more than 70.000 troops, the Indians themselves were more than willing to participate

Did you know that the German word for biro is Kugelschreiber? That is equally relevant in this case.

I can tell now that you have a pretty poor intellect, rhetorical and reasoning skills. You can't even make a coherent case when answering a single post. Are you the local board-wreck? Most boards have 'em. As your significant other(s) probably agree with, you're pretty useless. Bye.

Posted by: Bsmith 31.Jul.2017, 11:45 AM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 10:22 AM) *
I can tell now that you have a pretty poor intellect, rhetorical and reasoning skills. You can't even make a coherent case when answering a single post. Are you the local board-wreck? Most boards have 'em. As your significant other(s) probably agree with, you're pretty useless. Bye.



And you're like a seagull...you fly in, crap and fly off.

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 11:47 AM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 31.Jul.2017, 12:45 PM) *
And you're like a seagull...you fly in, crap and fly off.


Oops, I just proved you wrong. Too fkn easy.

Posted by: Bsmith 31.Jul.2017, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 12:40 AM) *
Ah yes, the classic cliche Anglo response. Always stated by Anglos when this topic comes up. Always vehemently denied by Indians. I suggest you post it on an Indian forum. The response might surprise you.


The classic whiner approach. Oh woe is me because of (fill in the blank)... History is past and gone. Playing the blame game gets you nowhere. Move on.

Posted by: Bsmith 31.Jul.2017, 01:08 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 11:47 AM) *
Oops, I just proved you wrong. Too fkn easy.


And if you feed them, the stay and crap a bit more. Here ya go seagull, another crumb.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 31.Jul.2017, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 01:40 AM) *
Ah yes, the classic cliche Anglo response. Always stated by Anglos when this topic comes up. Always vehemently denied by Indians. I suggest you post it on an Indian forum. The response might surprise you.


Were the Indians better off by being forced to import goods from UK mills? Were they better off by being beaten and imprisoned for starting cottage industries of their own? Also, the railroads weren't built to carry Desis from points A to B. They were built to carry riches to the coast and out of the country. Do you reckon hundreds of years of divide and conquer has been good for India? Do you reckon rubber stamped prison terms by the colonial "justice system" directed towards anyone that showed even a tiny bit of insubordination has benefited India? And you praise the great civil service... You don't sound like you've ever been to India.



Please reserve your hysteria for another pro India forum...

Listen closely now, I never said that things were wonderful under the "Raj"...

When the British left, they left the foundation for today's modern India...I think India has done well since independence...

They haven't yet used their atomic weapons on the unspeakable "untouchables", have they???

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 02:29 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 31.Jul.2017, 02:01 PM) *
The classic whiner approach. Oh woe is me because of (fill in the blank


It is not 4:20 yet. Or your reading comprehension simply might never be too good. That is not even close to what I have stated.

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 02:35 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 31.Jul.2017, 02:19 PM) *
When the British left, they left the foundation for today's modern India...I think India has done well since independence...


And I asked you, have you been there (and no, I am not talking about running around Panaji for 2 weeks trying to find a full English)? If not, you really should stay schtumm about the positive vs negative influence of the Raj.

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 31.Jul.2017, 02:19 PM) *
They haven't yet used their atomic weapons on the unspeakable "untouchables", have they???

And that is another irrelevant non sequitur and yet another shift of the goalposts. I really wish you simpleton chavs would keep your DNA over there in the land of piss and filth.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 31.Jul.2017, 02:56 PM

Where have you been all these years???

You are just what is needed now...another idiot to brighten our dull forum!!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Bsmith 31.Jul.2017, 03:27 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 01:29 PM) *
It is not 4:20 yet. Or your reading comprehension simply might never be too good. That is not even close to what I have stated.


You blame the Brits for India's problems. One of India's biggest challenges is its overpopulation. Hardly the fault of the British. Oh, those terrible colonialists, they have brought ruin upon India.

Were atrocities committed by the English? Sure, but is India's past completely clean? No country, no ethnicity is without fault. No living person has ancestors who have not suffered or have not caused others to suffer. I am sure that my Irish ancestors suffered under the thumb of the Brits, but for me, after all these years, to hold a grudge, is ridiculous. If anything, I should be grateful. The poor conditions of Ireland lead my ancestors to seek a better life in America. Their suffering has made it possible for me to have a comfortable life.

Posted by: Gjeebes 31.Jul.2017, 05:59 PM

So Twiceshy is going aggro on two Yanks (one of which has never even been to Sweden -GH-), on a Swedish forum, about the ills of British colonialism, in India?

How irrelevantly "non-sequitur" can you get?!

But kudos for the big words and flashy style, Twicey!

Posted by: Bsmith 31.Jul.2017, 10:29 PM

Now Gjeebes, don't you want to come to his pity party? He's baked a cake and everything.

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 11:44 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 31.Jul.2017, 03:56 PM) *
You are just what is needed now...another idiot to brighten our dull forum!!! laugh.gif


Nice turn of words. I take it the first idiot is you.

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 11:49 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 31.Jul.2017, 04:27 PM) *
You blame the Brits for India's problems.

This all started 'cause I did not agree with some non-traveler about the Raj being instrumental in India's success.


QUOTE (Bsmith @ 31.Jul.2017, 04:27 PM) *
One of India's biggest challenges is its overpopulation. Hardly the fault of the British.

Let me see. Overpopulation stems from poverty. A vital part in poverty is exploitation. India was pushed even further into poverty by the Raj due to their exploitation of her raw materials, but also their introduction of the Zamindar system. Now if you weren't a complete tool, you would know what this is already. So go Google it, genius.


QUOTE (Bsmith @ 31.Jul.2017, 04:27 PM) *
Were atrocities committed by the English? blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


Cool story, you theorist. So have you been to India?

Posted by: Twiceshy 31.Jul.2017, 11:51 PM

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 31.Jul.2017, 06:59 PM) *
How irrelevantly "non-sequitur" can you get?!


It is right on topic due to the pre-existing conversation here, so not non sequitur at all. As for the old fellas nationalities, I had no idea. They talk with Anglo arrogance (colonial atrocities performed without a following vae victis), but now that you say that they are yanks, their complete and utter ignorance makes perfect sense (not the sharpest tool in the shed, the average yank). Kudos for putting up your fists.

Posted by: gsurya 1.Aug.2017, 04:20 AM

I like what I started here. I never expected to find defenders of colonialism on a Swedish forum, given Sweden's own history rolleyes.gif

Yes, India has a lot of problems like overpopulation, racism, poverty etc and its entirely our responsibility now to deal with it & fix our shit.

But how does that absolve British of invading us at a time when we were one of the top countries globally in terms of GDP/trade & leaving us at the bottom? Guess the colonial apologists have no answer to that except whataboutism.

Posted by: ChocOwl 1.Aug.2017, 05:48 PM

QUOTE (gsurya @ 1.Aug.2017, 05:20 AM) *
I like what I started here. I never expected to find defenders of colonialism on a Swedish forum, given Sweden's own history rolleyes.gif

This is an expat discussion forum with mostly English-speaking participants. Not necessarily representative of the rest of Sweden...

What do you mean by "Sweden's own history"?

Posted by: Bsmith 1.Aug.2017, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 10:49 PM) *
Cool story, you theorist. So have you been to India?


Who would want to go there? Too crowded.

Posted by: Bsmith 1.Aug.2017, 07:54 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 31.Jul.2017, 11:49 PM) *
Let me see. Overpopulation stems from poverty.


I think you've got that backward.

Posted by: Twiceshy 1.Aug.2017, 07:55 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 1.Aug.2017, 07:34 PM) *
Who would want to go there? Too crowded.

Sure you are not talking about the space between your wife's thighs now?

OK. Gotcha. Like with so many of your ilk, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, Amerifat. No wonder so many of your lot literally have to kill or get killed in order to get an edumacachun. You don't know the first thing about India. A feeble-minded tool like you would probably even have to Google who Nehru and Jinnah were. You're all about "open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally". AND you smell of elderberries.

Posted by: Twiceshy 1.Aug.2017, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 1.Aug.2017, 08:54 PM) *
I think you've got that backward.


Just what I said. Thanks for proving my theory about you being an uneducated kak-head.

Posted by: Bsmith 1.Aug.2017, 08:04 PM

And thanks for supporting my theory that most underdeveloped, myopic nerds gain a major testosterone boost once they touch a keyboard.

Say hi to your mom upstairs and thank her for the snickerdoodles.

Posted by: Twiceshy 1.Aug.2017, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 1.Aug.2017, 09:04 PM) *
And thanks for supporting my theory that most underdeveloped, myopic nerds gain a major testosterone boost once they touch a keyboard.

Say hi to your mom upstairs and thank her for the snickerdoodles.



1/10 banter. You must be really old.
Sure you don't want to talk more about India then, fatty?
What is your opinion on S.C. Bose?
And how do you feel about Hariprasad Chaurasia?
Also. Passport. Have you ever had one?
These are serious questions.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 1.Aug.2017, 08:34 PM

And...

Introducing:

The new Captain Banana!!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 1.Aug.2017, 08:39 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 1.Aug.2017, 09:34 PM) *
And...

Introducing:

The new Captain Banana!!! laugh.gif


Hi New Captain Banana!
Namaste!

Posted by: Bsmith 1.Aug.2017, 09:51 PM

NiceyTwicey says, "I'm twice the banana you ever were, fatty."



Posted by: Bsmith 1.Aug.2017, 10:01 PM

Actual picture of Twicey, preparing his next scathing response. Ooooo, I'm quaking with fear...


Posted by: Svedallas 1.Aug.2017, 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 1.Aug.2017, 09:34 PM) *
And...

Introducing:

The new Captain Banana!!! laugh.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: rex 1.Aug.2017, 10:23 PM

I feel sorry for reanimating this thread from the dead. It has gone completely off the rails.

Also, to the "smarty pants" who are bullying the Indian guy... Shame on you. tongue.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 1.Aug.2017, 10:47 PM

The Indian guy is the bully here, he will not let others have an opinion that does not suit his mantra, especially if they are right!!!

Posted by: Svedallas 1.Aug.2017, 11:06 PM

QUOTE (rex @ 1.Aug.2017, 11:23 PM) *
I feel sorry for reanimating this thread from the dead. It has gone completely off the rails.

Also, to the "smarty pants" who are bullying the Indian guy... Shame on you. tongue.gif


When it goes off the rails - we usually share the popcorn here...
*PING* your turn to get it out of the microwave.

Posted by: Twiceshy 1.Aug.2017, 11:37 PM

Hi board-wrecks. Where you folks all from, and have you even been to Sveejden or India?

Most of you do not seem half bad, but I gotta say, Bsmith, you ain't got nothing going for you, do you? No wit, no clarity, no case, just poor rhetoric all around. Ever had a passport? Is your family as bored with you as I am? C'mon, tell us how you really feel.

How come all you driftwood are here, arguing ineffectually? Is there too much ageism on 4chan so you need this place as a safe-space? You really need to up your game. Tick tock folks. That is your life running through your hands while you are arguing on a board for a country that you have no connection to, about another country that you know nothing about and never will travel to. To quote your Potus; Tired of winning yet?

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 1.Aug.2017, 11:44 PM

And you're here too!!! laugh.gif

That make you one of what you are railing against...

Posted by: Twiceshy 1.Aug.2017, 11:48 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 12:44 AM) *
And you're here too!!! laugh.gif

YOU SURE GOT ME THERE GRAMPS OMGROFL!!!!!!

(So have you ever been to Sweden or India and do you have a passport?)

Posted by: Bsmith 1.Aug.2017, 11:50 PM

Go ahead Twicey, gimme your best shot. I mean, really, is that all you got? Think hard now, I'm expecting a good one...

Posted by: Twiceshy 1.Aug.2017, 11:55 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 2.Aug.2017, 12:50 AM) *
I am very hurt by your words. Please validate my meaningless existence


*crickets*

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 1.Aug.2017, 11:58 PM

Aw, c'mon, leave the little thing alone can't you see that it is crying out for attention...

If you are not nice to it, it will hold it's breath and turn blue, stamp it's feet and fall down, then it will run to Mommy to get help with it's boo boo and be happy because it got the attention it so desperately craves... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 2.Aug.2017, 12:04 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 12:58 AM) *
Aw, c'mon, leave the little thing alone can't you see that it is crying out for attention...


I don't think you are being fair to him now. He is trying to keep up after all.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 2.Aug.2017, 12:21 AM

Trying to keep up, valiant effort...Maybe someday it will be able to compete here, although I doubt it...

Posted by: Twiceshy 2.Aug.2017, 12:32 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 01:21 AM) *
Trying to keep up, valiant effort...Maybe someday it will be able to compete here, although I doubt it...


I also have my doubts about smitheys ability to keep up at his advanced age, but I do think you overestimate the level of eloquence present here. If it wasn't for me elevating this here bitch, you'd all look even more foolish in your circle-jerk. Like a GGG movie where the girl does not turn up.

So what about India? What about Sweden? Been to either? Got a passport?

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 2.Aug.2017, 12:40 AM

If I answered what would you say???

Posted by: Twiceshy 2.Aug.2017, 12:44 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 01:40 AM) *
If I answered what would you say???


Honestly, I'd probably shoot you down due to lack of knowledge about the outside world, which makes most of your statements in this thread null and void. Think of it as the prophecy of the young lion killing the old, from Nostradamus. You're probably a sore loser anyway, so you could just kid yourself that you're still on top.

I just hope that you do not lack a passport due to being bedridden from obesity. That would be pie-face for me, and such a cliché for a yank.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 2.Aug.2017, 01:19 AM

And again you said nothing, why not try to be more expressive by choosing words that really make sense to those that view them, so far you are a miserable failure at communicating cognitive and meaningful ideas and would do better at sucking your thumb and gesturing to those that attend you in the asylum for your "potty" needs...

Have a truly nice day laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 2.Aug.2017, 01:42 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 02:19 AM) *
And again you said nothing

I've shot you down on facts, and I've shot you down in banter. You need me to seduce your daughter and not call her back in order to realise how scalped you've been today?

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 02:19 AM) *
choosing words that really make sense to those that view them,


But but, I am not an uneducated pleb. You are. I could not possibly stoop to your level. And definitely not to smitheys. YOU need to elevate yourself. It is never too late to learn.

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 02:19 AM) *
cognitive and meaningful ideas

Yes. Let's go back to how 200 years of exploitation of India and the founding of the Zamindar system was quite alright, "cause at least they got call centers now". And how you base this entire theory on books you haven't read, and places you haven't been.


QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 02:19 AM) *
and would do better at sucking your thumb and gesturing to those that attend you in the asylum for your "potty" needs...

I sense that I have hurt your feelings now. Not so cheerful anymore. Good.

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 02:19 AM) *
Have a truly nice day laugh.gif

Hey Feeble Gramps, It's night-time.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 2.Aug.2017, 10:28 AM

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Bsmith 2.Aug.2017, 11:12 AM

There once was a laddie named Twiceshy
Who just couldn't be a nice guy
He puffed up his chest and tried to impress
But his brain was the size of a fruit fly.

Posted by: Bsmith 2.Aug.2017, 12:36 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 2.Aug.2017, 12:44 AM) *
I know I am a nasty jerk, but I just really crave attention. I *sniff sniff* never had a friend..."


There there, twicey, it'll be alright. (pat on head)

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 2.Aug.2017, 01:31 PM

I think it is amusing!!!

Posted by: Svedallas 2.Aug.2017, 03:36 PM

Back to the thread subject!


Many companies are just afraid of change, and basically, they want to keep it "Swedish".

However, due to many global changes and structures, diverse employees is actually more beneficial than having people who are stuck inside the Swedish bubble.

If only more companies in Sweden saw that diversity as a positive thing.
It is something that will take many many years to come.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 2.Aug.2017, 03:49 PM

Yes, it will take time because it is seen that diversity in the work place means a Swede did not get hired...

If there was an economic boom and many jobs were needed that would help, Will it happen??? I doubt it...

Posted by: Svedallas 2.Aug.2017, 03:52 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 2.Aug.2017, 04:49 PM) *
Yes, it will take time because it is seen that diversity in the work place means a Swede did not get hired...

If there was an economic boom and many jobs were needed that would help, Will it happen??? I doubt it...



Exactly.
If there is choice between a highly qualified non-Swede vs average qualified Swede.
The job will still go to the Swede.

It is just how it is. Safe.
Only smart management know that the highly qualified will be the beneficial one.
Look at Spotify.

Posted by: Twiceshy 3.Aug.2017, 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Bsmith @ 2.Aug.2017, 12:12 PM) *
There once was a laddie named Twiceshy
Who just couldn't be a nice guy
He puffed up his chest and tried to impress
But his brain was the size of a fruit fly.


That's so cute. I dissed you for your lack of wit and unengaging banter, and here you come back with a non-shitty limerick.

What did you have to sacrifice to come up with this? I am estimating about 3 hours of work, one oxycodone, 5mg of Ritalin and one adult diaper.

9/10 for effort. 4/10 for the poetry

How 'bout this;
QUOTE
A man named bsmith
whose life had been shit
spent his days peddling hate
from a basement in some flyover state
here at the local
he was being very vocal
about things he could not understand
since he was the kind of man
that lacks in lucidity
and excels in stupidity
his lack of wit
made him appear like a git
to those present he seemed blunt
possibly a complete cunt

Posted by: Svedallas 3.Aug.2017, 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 3.Aug.2017, 04:43 PM) *
That's so cute. I dissed you for your lack of wit and unengaging banter, and here you come back with a non-shitty limerick.

What did you have to sacrifice to come up with this? I am estimating about 3 hours of work, one oxycodone, 5mg of Ritalin and one adult diaper.

9/10 for effort. 4/10 for the poetry

How 'bout this;


TL Administrators - can you block this individual?
Everyone is entitled to opinions, and generate a argument through a sound debate.

But this has gone too far, and this is disrespectful to the TL community.

Posted by: Twiceshy 3.Aug.2017, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 3.Aug.2017, 06:11 PM) *
TL Administrators - can you block this individual?


I agree. Ban us both though!
This has gone on far too long and these two individuals (me included) have overstepped all boundaries. I don't know about you lot but I am at the end of my tether!

While you're at it. Ban those driftwood Trumpkins that have come in here through 4chan/pol and similar cesspits and have no connection to Sweden what-so-ever. Their tedious habit of pulling everything down to the level of "white good / brown bad" while being uncultured yanks themselves, should not be accepted.

Once we're gone there should be only the rest of you board-wrecks left. Which is as it should be.

Posted by: Svedallas 3.Aug.2017, 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 3.Aug.2017, 06:51 PM) *
I agree. Ban us both though!
This has gone on far too long and these individuals have overstepped all boundaries. I don't know about you lot but I am at the end of my tether!


Forum is for discussion, debate, advice, banter, but it should not go to your level of disrespect.

Posted by: Twiceshy 3.Aug.2017, 06:09 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 3.Aug.2017, 06:59 PM) *
your level of disrespect.

Not your call. Would you like a safe space?
You might want to ponder why some foreigner comes around and posts 1900 heavily generalized posts about immigration on a forum about Sweden. Do you have similar focus issues?

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 4.Aug.2017, 12:54 AM

This place offers no intellectual challenge to me so I am going to watch my favorite movie...

Gunga Din, for those not familiar with it, it's about a hard working native Indian who rose through the ranks of the British army and won promotion and the respect of all that served with him.

Who said Indians were kept back and not allowed to rise through the ranks of The Raj because of heritage, he got a job didn't he???

Posted by: Twiceshy 4.Aug.2017, 01:45 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 4.Aug.2017, 01:54 AM) *
rise through the ranks of The Raj to become top water carrier for a honky, then dies in vain.


5 points for attempt at baiting. Not biting though.

My fav movie scene is in Apocalypse Now. The beautiful young schoolteacher wearing an Ao Dai, sacrificing her life to throw a grenade into a helicopter full of Amerifats. Instant goosebumps. More of that pls.

Also enjoy The Quiet American, the latter movie. How the old fox Michael Caine gets the girl AND turns his competition, the young clueless deluded and murdering OSS (CIA?) operative, over to the Viet Cong (or Viet Minh?) to get killed. Beautiful stuff.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 4.Aug.2017, 01:50 AM

Chicken!!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 4.Aug.2017, 02:14 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 4.Aug.2017, 02:50 AM) *
Chicken!!! laugh.gif


Not at all! She portrays a true Vietnamese hero

As history has shown us, it takes a lot of guts to take a grenade/bomb to the colonialists. We have a lot to thank the Vietnamese nationalists for. 55000 of your countrymen killed for example.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 4.Aug.2017, 02:54 AM

Chicken X3 laugh.gif !!!

Posted by: Twiceshy 4.Aug.2017, 03:09 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 4.Aug.2017, 03:54 AM) *
Chicken X3 laugh.gif !!!

Correction; Fried Chicken x 58,220 portions. Sealed box delivery.


Posted by: Tenacious185 4.Aug.2017, 07:17 AM

This is only my personal experience/observation, so it might not be worth Jack Sh*t, but I think the biggest obstacle to not finding work here is the language barrier.

If you don't speak good Swedish it really limits your possibilities. I struggled for a long time to find a good job as well, and I'm Caucasian/European and from a Western country - and I have a short and non-exotic name. I observe many people in Sweden in the workforce, many people of color, from many different backgrounds and ethnicities, who have jobs - good jobs even, but they all speak good enough Swedish. That's they key, I believe. I don't think the Swedes are discriminating against people for their ethnicity or national origin so much as they are giving preferential treatment to people who can speak good Swedish. Others will have different observations, of course.

Posted by: Svedallas 4.Aug.2017, 11:33 AM

QUOTE (Tenacious185 @ 4.Aug.2017, 08:17 AM) *
This is only my personal experience/observation, so it might not be worth Jack Sh*t, but I think the biggest obstacle to not finding work here is the language barrier.

If you don't speak good Swedish it really limits your possibilities. I struggled for a long time to find a good job as well, and I'm Caucasian/European and from a Western country - and I have a short and non-exotic name. I observe many people in Sweden in the workforce, many people of color, from many different backgrounds and ethnicities, who have jobs - good jobs even, but they all speak good enough Swedish. That's they key, I believe. I don't think the Swedes are discriminating against people for their ethnicity or national origin so much as they are giving preferential treatment to people who can speak good Swedish. Others will have different observations, of course.


Yes, language is very important. But I know some people who have lived in Sweden for most of their life, consider Swedish their native language, and still do not get a job, or are stuck in low jobs because they are not seen as Swedish enough.

I think they safe play that even though someone will have the skill, language, the "diversity" is almost a culture shock to have someone with a different background.
So preferential treatment and indeed discrimination is given on that basis, that they are afraid of change.

Of course, it makes more sense for non native now to only stick with international companies. That is how I see it. But competition is still extremely high. But at least those type of companies give a fair chance.

Posted by: Tenacious185 5.Aug.2017, 12:20 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 4.Aug.2017, 12:33 PM) *
But I know some people who have lived in Sweden for most of their life, consider Swedish their native language, and still do not get a job, or are stuck in low jobs because they are not seen as Swedish enough.


Good point, Svedallas. I have no doubt that this happens, but I can't speak to that, because I don't look all that "foreign" in Sweden, but as soon as I speak - they know I'm not one of "them". ;-)

So I chalk up most of my earlier difficulties finding a good job here to language, and as you said, a LOT of competition for very few jobs. I believe you when you say that fear of change, and stepping outside one's comfort zone has prompted some Swedish employers to exclude certain applicants.

You're right about the international companies. Where I work now is very diverse, and has upwards of 30 different nationalities employed there. They do welcome diversity, but the jobs are scarce and tough to get, because all the foreigners, AND the Swedes who speak good English - which is most of them - are applying for those positions.

Posted by: Svedallas 6.Aug.2017, 09:26 AM

QUOTE (baralillajag @ 5.Aug.2017, 03:15 PM) *
Sorry to hear that but I totally understand, but I use two surnames just to get around it also. On the other hand, you shouldn't underestimate the need to speak Swedish in Sweden. It is very important.


Surname does not make that much of a difference these days.
Unless the name is through via. adopted name or marriage. If a person actually changes their name just to seek "acceptance", it says quite the opposite and comes across as really suspicious. Especially with all that is going on in the political/religious front.

But yes, you are right, you can get by with English but not for long, Swedish will always be the most important factor.

Posted by: Tenacious185 6.Aug.2017, 05:21 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 6.Aug.2017, 10:26 AM) *
Surname does not make that much of a difference these days.
If a person actually changes their name just to seek "acceptance", it says quite the opposite and comes across as really suspicious. Especially with all that is going on in the political/religious front.


Agreed - veering too far away from who you actually are for no explainable reason is likely to raise red flags. Best to just be yourself, market yourself as creatively as possible, and work on your Swedish. Foreigners have a steeper uphill climb, but being both honest AND making an effort to be able to communicate in Swedish are probably the best ways of leveling the playing field. Somewhat. ;-)

Posted by: rajarana 8.Aug.2017, 01:03 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 4.Aug.2017, 04:09 AM) *
Correction; Fried Chicken x 58,220 portions. Sealed box delivery.



Shots fired ... hot dayummm biggrin.gif

Welcome to the forum Twiceshy. TL really needs the counter-balance to some of their members spewing non-stop hatred towards anything that is not white and/or Swedish. People have tried to argue with them using facts before, but as you have seen these just bounce off of their heads, with that hollow sound indicative of whats inside.

A little intro to these members you have been trying to educate:

1. Gamla: Our resident troll. All it cares about is having a laugh. Do not feed.
2. Bsmith: Slightly better intentioned although far worse intellectually. Big believer in "alternative facts". Best to be pitied more than argued with.
3. Svedellas: Arab guy who hates free speech. Best left ignored.

Most of the active contributors in TL are British and most of them are quite well-intentioned, although I daresay equally ignorant about the things you mention. Thanks to these member, TL is still a viable source of useful information on anything Swedish.

Welcome again and 10/10 for that eloquence of language smile.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (rajarana @ 8.Aug.2017, 02:03 PM) *
Shots fired ... hot dayummm biggrin.gif

Welcome again and 10/10 for that eloquence of language smile.gif


Thanks Rajarana. Appreciate the zoological profile of my counter-parts. The jungle contains all kinds of species, but sometimes it is hard to understand the purpose of some of 'em.

I pity regular morons and leave them alone, but one of my hobbies is to shoot down the arrogant among the feeble-minded. It is easy pickings though. If you have not got an education, no passport, no class, inability to put things in a historical context, poor command of your mother-tongue as well as a cunty attitude, then you are fair game, soon to be K.O.

So what about you? From seeing your username I have to ask; are you a Desi? I am a big fan of Bharat Mata (as well as critical about her, as one should be), and I have spent quite a long time there.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 05:13 PM

Oh, my!!!

A bromance on the rise, here at Thelocal...

Can't wait for the cooing and cuddling to begin... laugh.gif

Please be vivid in the wording of your intimacy, we are adults here and don't like anything but the real McCoy!!!

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 05:20 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 8.Aug.2017, 06:13 PM) *
I am so envious

Now now ye olde goat. You can find loving too. You just need to cancel your current subscription to life and hope for better luck next time. Here's a wish hoping that your next reincarnation avatar will be as an Afghani catamite. Maybe you can find a call-center to work at, and in the off-hours you can ponder the wonders of colonisation. Poetic justice

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 06:14 PM

Is that you in the middle???

Who/what does your hair??? laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 07:22 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 8.Aug.2017, 07:14 PM) *
Is that you in the middle???

Who/what does your hair??? laugh.gif


Come come now you amerifat. Act your age.

Posted by: LLHope 8.Aug.2017, 07:50 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 2.Aug.2017, 01:42 AM) *
"cause at least they got call centers now"

Indirectly yes!
There is a saying that history is written by the victors. The jury is still out as to who the real victors are in this instance.

Between 1870 and 1930 Britain took only approx 1% of the wealth from India. If you compare that to other European nations and their "lands", it is far far less. During the same period it invested approx 400 MILLION GBP, introduced irrigation that gave an 8-fold increase in farming land, developed a coal industry that didnt exist before. Land owners, Indian princes, indian middle class all gained in terms of job & business opportunities that didnt exist before. It is very fair to claim that ordinary (poor) indians gained very little, but it has to be balanced against the fact that it didnt get worse for them, in fact they were treated even worse before the British came, and there is no evidence to show they would have been any better off being left in the situation they had before the British came.

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 8.Aug.2017, 08:50 PM) *
Between 1870 and 1930 is my cherrypicked time-frame.


Cool story. Not relevant though. What about the loss in production resulting from Dyer's atrocity, all the other atrocities and the hundreds of thousands of man-years lost to random incarcerations? What about the Zamindar system? What about the 1 million dead from the partition? The 3 million dead from famine in 1943. What about the GDP that was one of the highest in the world before colonisation, and one of the lowest during?

At least there is some justice to see that the UK has turned into a sick man. In pure hideousness, your suburban brick-sprawl is comparable to the Indian 'burbs.

Pity that Bose died. You'd have had Japanese troops marching through Iran, turning off the southern Soviet supply route. Seems like you have Mahatma Gandhi to thank for the fact that you are not speaking German now.

You should probably go down to the nearest curry-house and prostrate yourself for the dishwasher.

Posted by: Svedallas 8.Aug.2017, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (rajarana @ 8.Aug.2017, 02:03 PM) *
Shots fired ... hot dayummm biggrin.gif

Welcome to the forum Twiceshy. TL really needs the counter-balance to some of their members spewing non-stop hatred towards anything that is not white and/or Swedish. People have tried to argue with them using facts before, but as you have seen these just bounce off of their heads, with that hollow sound indicative of whats inside.

A little intro to these members you have been trying to educate:

1. Gamla: Our resident troll. All it cares about is having a laugh. Do not feed.
2. Bsmith: Slightly better intentioned although far worse intellectually. Big believer in "alternative facts". Best to be pitied more than argued with.
3. Svedellas: Arab guy who hates free speech. Best left ignored.

Most of the active contributors in TL are British and most of them are quite well-intentioned, although I daresay equally ignorant about the things you mention. Thanks to these member, TL is still a viable source of useful information on anything Swedish.

Welcome again and 10/10 for that eloquence of language smile.gif


Arab. Oh, I am offended. laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:09 PM) *
Arab. Oh, I am offended. laugh.gif


Sure beats Uhmerrikun. Any fkn day.

Posted by: Svedallas 8.Aug.2017, 08:15 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:10 PM) *
Sure beats Uhmerrikun. Any fkn day.


Guess you are a follower of the ideology of peace then.

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 08:17 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:15 PM) *
Muh non sequitur


What do you want me to answer to that random statement?

Are you a jesus-freak?

Posted by: Svedallas 8.Aug.2017, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:17 PM) *
What do you want me to answer to that random statement?

Are you a jesus-freak?


I'll take that as a yes, you are.

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:19 PM) *
I'll take that as a yes, you are.

I do not do superstitions.

I take it by your avoidance of an answer that you are indeed a typical nutty jesus-enabler. Remember Peter the Apostle... And remember not to mix your fabrics, you certifiably insane person. Go be weird somewhere else.

Posted by: Svedallas 8.Aug.2017, 08:25 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:21 PM) *
I do not do superstitions.

I take it by your avoidance of an answer that you are indeed a typical nutty jesus-enabler. Remember Peter the Apostle... And remember not to mix your fabrics, you certifiably insane person. Go be weird somewhere else.



"I do not do superstitions"

I won't even bother, you lack basic grammar.

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 8.Aug.2017, 09:25 PM) *
I mistake anglicisms for grammatical errors


Ah. The wonders of a classical American education. Go pledge allegiance somewhere, fatty. You really do not travel at all, right?

So tell me about your relation to jesus.

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 08:38 PM

The anticipation is strong. What is this genius gonna come up with from the basement of his plywood mansion? 10 minutes now... Earth to Bumfuck, Flyover State. Are you receiving? Did you get side-tracked by a tasty pastry?

Posted by: rajarana 8.Aug.2017, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 05:37 PM) *
Thanks Rajarana. Appreciate the zoological profile of my counter-parts. The jungle contains all kinds of species, but sometimes it is hard to understand the purpose of some of 'em.

I pity regular morons and leave them alone, but one of my hobbies is to shoot down the arrogant among the feeble-minded. It is easy pickings though. If you have not got an education, no passport, no class, inability to put things in a historical context, poor command of your mother-tongue as well as a cunty attitude, then you are fair game, soon to be K.O.

So what about you? From seeing your username I have to ask; are you a Desi? I am a big fan of Bharat Mata (as well as critical about her, as one should be), and I have spent quite a long time there.


Yes, indeed, you guessed right smile.gif

Reading your posts, I really wish I had paid more attention in English class at school. I have had similar discussions with people (both offline and online) and I think language plays a big role in getting your point across, cold hard facts do nothing to those determined not to see reason.

Lol, I'm still in awe with how your handling 3 of these nutjobs all by yourself ... bravo! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 09:12 PM

Well, considering your heritage, you are probably about 10x better at the English language than the average Ameri-pleb. At least as long as you do not use the words 'crore', 'cum'(in the latin sense) and 'lakh', with an international audience wink.gif

I am just having a bit of fun. There is something about the recent "victory" of King Orange that has emboldened the most stupid American to act like a fool on international platforms. They can never argue facts though. Amerifat doctrine states that they must switch over to ad hominem when they are out of their depth. I am OK with that though. If you have an average American edumacachun you can't argue any which way. What a fkd up tribe they are... The fkn Taliban of the western world. Young souls filled to the gills with jesus delusions, hydrogenated fats, and pleb culture.

Posted by: rajarana 8.Aug.2017, 09:42 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 10:12 PM) *
Well, considering your heritage, you are probably about 10x better at the English language than the average Ameri-pleb. At least as long as you do not use the words 'crore', 'cum'(in the latin sense) and 'lakh', with an international audience wink.gif

I am just having a bit of fun. There is something about the recent "victory" of King Orange that has emboldened the most stupid American to act like a fool on international platforms. They can never argue facts though. Amerifat doctrine states that they must switch over to ad hominem when they are out of their depth. I am OK with that though. If you have an average American edumacachun you can't argue any which way. What a fkd up tribe they are... The fkn Taliban of the western world. Young souls filled to the gills with jesus delusions, hydrogenated fats, and pleb culture.


lol your absolutely spot on about the American thing. I think both BSmith and Gamla are Americans and they are the ones that cause the most trouble on this forum.

Svedellas on the other hand seems to be an Arab Christian (judging by his hate of Muslims) immigrant that tries really hard to fit in here. I actually feel sorry for the guy.

Oh, and watch out for the one called 'Gjeebes', he's quite the character as well ... although at least his ranting is more honest, he doesn't disguise his posts as anything other than the simple bitterness that they usually are biggrin.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 09:55 PM

Yeah. Just a bunch of board-wrecks "med andra ord".
Every single semi-abandoned board has them. A bunch of old farts, stuck in an eternal circle-jerk, waiting for death. Protected by poor moderation they get to spew their crap. Not brave, skilled or intellectual enough to post their musings on more vibrant boards. Their grievances are of no concern to me as I mow them down like a Panzer over a Polack in 41.

Posted by: Svedallas 8.Aug.2017, 10:06 PM

QUOTE (rajarana @ 8.Aug.2017, 10:42 PM) *
lol your absolutely spot on about the American thing. I think both BSmith and Gamla are Americans and they are the ones that cause the most trouble on this forum.

Svedellas on the other hand seems to be an Arab Christian (judging by his hate of Muslims) immigrant that tries really hard to fit in here. I actually feel sorry for the guy.

Oh, and watch out for the one called 'Gjeebes', he's quite the character as well ... although at least his ranting is more honest, he doesn't disguise his posts as anything other than the simple bitterness that they usually are biggrin.gif


Arab Christian?! How amusing... laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 10:09 PM

When are you guys gonna get a room???

Oh the bliss of having a person to praise your words here...

I just can't wait to actually see you try to touch each other, and I don't mean with words of praise...

Try '39 instead of '41...

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 10:13 PM

Goat. C'mon. Don't pour bitterness over a young love. I am sure you remember how it felt, despite the fact that it was never reciprocated.

No need to find a room since I am already in your house.

So what about you fatty? Do you have religion? What's your BMI? Do you support the troops? Where were you when your daddy left? Do you hurr di durr di durr durr du durr?

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 10:16 PM

QUOTE (Svedallas @ 8.Aug.2017, 11:06 PM) *
Arab Christian?! How amusing... laugh.gif laugh.gif


So tell me what your mix is, you mutt, so I'll know where to piss.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 10:18 PM

You are a cute little thing when you are tweaked, I love the attempts at meaningful rejoinder...

You are too funny laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 10:19 PM

Why won't you answer my questions? WHat's a "cute little think"

So what about you fatty? Do you have religion? What's your BMI? Do you support the troops? Where were you when your daddy left? Do you hurr di durr di durr durr du durr?

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 10:29 PM

If you asked answerable questions I would be happy to oblige...

What's a "cute little think"???

Where do you get these darling idiocies to rant about???

I think you are cracking up mentally, hopefully that should make you more amusing...

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 10:36 PM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 8.Aug.2017, 11:29 PM) *
If you asked answerable questions I would be happy to oblige...

What's a "cute little think"???

Where do you get these darling idiocies to rant about???

I think you are cracking up mentally, hopefully that should make you more amusing...


It was me making fun of your error before you corrected is, ye olde goat.

So let's keep it simple.

1. Do you have any actual physical connection to Sweden or have you just chosen a random forum to spread your xenophobic nonsense at?

2. How old are you? I don't want to hit you too hard if you are geriatric, and therefore unable to keep up.

3. Are you a typical Amerifat christian nut, thereby disqualifying yourself from speaking to rational people.

Of course I am only wasting my time putting these questions down in bullet-point shape. You will never answer. You've been trolling here since forever. How sad that this is your finest hour. Shouldn't you make this your final day here?

EDIT: LOL, I see now that you have about 10,400+ posts here. I'll be darned. You're the saddest thing I've seen all year. How do you sleep?

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 10:53 PM

After laughing at you and your most illiterate scribbling, I am pretty much cool, calm and relaxed enough to fall heavily into the arms of Morpheus for a sound and invigorating slumber...

Upon awakening I rush to see if you have posted comically again for my enjoyment...

Please don't have a lovers quarrel with your new admirer, it may spoil my fun as you will probably be pouting in a snit and not posting here... sad.gif

NOT!!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 10:58 PM

There is literally nothing illiterate about my scribblings, Mr 10K.

Way to misunderstand your own native language.

I love your attempt at homophobic jokes. The fifties called. They want you back. Welcome to Sweden. You don't really get this place, do you?

Here we go again:

1. Do you have any actual physical connection to Sweden or have you just chosen a random forum to spread your xenophobic/homophobic nonsense at?

2. How old are you? I don't want to hit you too hard if you are geriatric, and therefore unable to keep up.

3. Are you a typical Amerifat christian nut, thereby disqualifying yourself from speaking to rational people.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 11:14 PM

I reserve the right to use my privilege provided by the fifth amendment to not answer any questions which I deem to be none of your business...

"Put that in your pipe and smoke it"
G. Garbo...Anna Christie

You're so curious, I'm beginning to think you have a crush on me laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 11:27 PM

Goat, well then this is useless. Shouldn't you be sleeping? It is only early evening in Bumfuck, Nebraska I guess.

So OK, mr Christian mutt cunt non-passport holding geriatric xenophobic homophobe. How many posts above 10,400 do you need to post in order to realise that your entire existence is futile?

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 8.Aug.2017, 11:43 PM

What lovely language, still trying to get mommies attention are you???

Secretly you want to be me, and I don't blame you, it must be an unhappy thing to be you...

Poor little thing laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 8.Aug.2017, 11:56 PM

Goat. You are the one that opened your mouth today, remember? Much as everyone else feels about you, I do not give a damn about you.

You are the one that was supposed to go to sleep, remember? Yet here you are, mr halfwit with poor command of your native language. I am getting to you here. I've gotten to you since day one. Remember that butthurt tirade you gave me once?

When will you realise that you are a useless board-wreck? At 11K posts?

Awaiting yet another, devoid of wit, response from you tonight. Just to underline the fact that you have no life.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 9.Aug.2017, 12:12 AM

I love it when you run out of insults and can only repeat previous things, the true sign of a beaten man...Going to bed now and laughing...Thank you for the comedy!!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Twiceshy 9.Aug.2017, 12:22 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 9.Aug.2017, 01:12 AM) *
Going to bed now and laughing...Thank you for the comedy!!! laugh.gif



"LOL"? Don't try to be kung på kidsen, gamling. Talking like a teen bimbo of the year 2011 will not get you any brownie points
I repeat stuff 'cause they are obvious signs of your feebleness that you ignore to respond to.
No. You are not going to sleep. You'll be tossing and turning and pondering the futility of your existence. Besides, it is barely even evening in Montana, cunty.

Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 9.Aug.2017, 12:27 AM

I have laughed so hard I need sleep...Aren't you having fun to???

Or are you just a sad little thing, pacing the floor trying to out do me???

Posted by: Twiceshy 9.Aug.2017, 12:30 AM

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 9.Aug.2017, 01:27 AM) *
I have laughed so hard I need sleep...Aren't you having fun to???

"Fun to". Huh geten? Vad menar du nu?


QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 9.Aug.2017, 01:27 AM) *
Or are you just a sad little thing, pacing the floor trying to out do me???

What does out do mean?
If you mean outdo, the entire fkn world is outdoing you, gramps.
Go sleep then, you sad old git.

Posted by: Gjeebes 9.Aug.2017, 05:33 AM

intermission...

Posted by: LLHope 9.Aug.2017, 10:00 PM

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 08:05 PM) *
Cool story. Not relevant though.

Very relevant.
QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 08:05 PM) *
What about the GDP that was one of the highest in the world before colonisation, and one of the lowest during?

The Indian GDP per capita was in steady decline from 1600 through to approx 1780, the decline
started quite a while before the British had created their trade agreements and alliances with
the Indian princes. Evidence points to the fact that in all likelihood the indian economy was heading for a stall. It is fair to say that the British didn't manage to turn it around until the latter part towards indian independence. Let's not forget also that during the 1800's European industrialisation also had a significant price and wage pressure on the indian economy, which would have happened even without the British being there.
QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 08:05 PM) *
What about the loss in production resulting from Dyer's atrocity, all the other atrocities and the hundreds of thousands of man-years lost to random incarcerations? What about the Zamindar system?

The atrocities that took place are indeed shameful acts, though they didn't impact the economy as you try to imply. The economy was in steady decline long before they took place. As for Zamindar system! That was just a longer name for something that already existed.

QUOTE (Twiceshy @ 8.Aug.2017, 08:05 PM) *
What about the 1 million dead from the partition? The 3 million dead from famine in 1943.

The British position was for a united India (initially even Ghandi supported that position), it was the Indians themselves that wanted to split the country, which was later supported by Ghandi. Even today there are many Hindu ideologues that refer to Ghandi as the "Father of Pakistan" and not the father of India!

1943 Famine in Bengal! Sad yes, so many died. unless you are a true believer in Model-T then I seriously doubt one can lay the blame for the series of natural disasters and the Japanese invasion and air-strikes that were the main contributing factors to the 1943 famine! The British themselves lost almost 300 ships sunk by the axis powers trying to ship food to those in the famine struck region.

Posted by: Twiceshy 10.Aug.2017, 01:45 AM

QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
The Indian GDP per capita was in steady decline from 1600 through to approx 1780, the decline


And East India Co exploitation started around 1612. This is more in favour of my argument than yours.


QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
It is fair to say that the British didn't manage to turn it around until the latter part towards indian independence.

It is fair to say that the British goal was not to turn Indian local GDP around. Rather suck out any values that were there, with no major concern for sustainability


QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
Let's not forget also that during the 1800's European industrialisation also had a significant price and wage pressure on the indian economy, which would have happened even without the British being there


So how much did destroyed Indian textile mills and outlawing the processing of their own raw materials put pressure on the local Indian industry? Industrialisation in the UK without colonisation of India would have generated masses of wealth for India due to cotton and other raw materials. Much as your tea-addiction led to massive wealth for China (which of course led to that other British atrocity, the opium wars. A phony war to turn Chinese into junkies to generate a demand for that one product you had to offer them). This is all pretty elementary stuff. Even your homeboy David Lean will give you the basics re. this.
Also, Gandhi, that you try to lean on further down for other rhetorical purposes, will also school you about the seriousness of this exploitation. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you know. IE, you just debunked one of your own claims.


QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
The atrocities that took place are indeed shameful acts, though they didn't impact the economy as you try to imply. The economy was in steady decline long before they took place. As for Zamindar system! That was just a longer name for something that already existed.

I don't believe you care about these shameful acts at all, but that is beside the point. The Zamindar system was institutionalised due to your help. Of course there have always been loansharks (duh). Also cute that you don't believe that murder and imprisonment of hundreds of thousands would affect GDP. Especially if the prison terms were dealt out to the educated classes. I feel like I should lecture you about post Pol Pot Cambodia now... but I think you understand what I am driving at.

QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
The British position was for a united India (initially even Ghandi supported that position), it was the Indians themselves that wanted to split the country, which was later supported by Ghandi. Even today there are many Hindu ideologues that refer to Ghandi as the "Father of Pakistan" and not the father of India!


There is no relevant character in Indian history named Ghandi. If you mean Gandhi... that's something else. Relying on Gandhi as anything else than a figure-head, is a mistake. Nehru, Jinnah, Bose etc were where it was at. Besides, they were just stuck with doing the best of trying to clean up YOUR mess, having to tie together a country based on borders YOUR greed had acquired. IE, if you mess it up, the ramifications are your responsibility.

Also, "The British Position" in this matter is completely irrelevant. Mountbatten the prat was eminently unsuitable to set Indian policy. He was not suited for anything else than posing in a uniform. I am quite grateful for the suitable ending he had (although RIP the poor innocent boy that got killed alongside him).


QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
one can lay the blame for the series of natural disasters and the Japanese invasion and air-strikes that were the main contributing factors to the 1943 famine!


How convenient. Japanese air-strikes on the Indian peninsula were few and far between. I've been to the memorials myself. Not a large bunch of names there. The Japanese land invasion that got turned back at the cricket ground in Imphal did (naturally) not affect food production very much, considering that they only held a sliver of Indian land. And finally, if you decide to defend your interest in India on Indian territory, the responsibility is yours.


QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
The British themselves lost almost 300 ships sunk by the axis powers

Did you add the dinghys to this calculation? Absolute nonsense.

QUOTE (LLHope @ 9.Aug.2017, 11:00 PM) *
trying to ship food to those in the famine struck region.

OK. See this as your challenge. Where was this food coming from? Where is the list of the 300 ships?

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)