The Local is not responsible for content posted by users.
2 Pages V   1 2 >   Reply to this topic

Moving to Norrkoping

Salary, school, rent

kajo
post 19.Aug.2016, 11:55 AM
Post #1
Joined: 19.Aug.2016

To go straight to the topic,
I could be offered a job in Norrkoping, where I have 100 questions regarding living in Norrkoping, working there, raising family there…… , and would appreciate your opinion, advices….

And do start somewhere:
Salary & benefits:
Range for my position between 36.000 SEK – 54.000 SEK. (dont know if that is before or after tax)
- I will try to negotiate beter salary as entry level, how much to stretch?
- Is that sufficient, can a family of 4 live on that even if it is 36000 before tax?
- In my country we also get travel to work compensation and lunch money, is in Sweden the same?
- We also get child allowance, same in Sweden, how much?
- What kind of benefits can I expect from state owned company?

Renting an apartment/house:
First I will be alone in Sweden, my family would join me in autumn 2017, so:
- Which part of Norrkoping to rent or is Linkoping nicer city to live for family and commute to work to Norrkoping?
- What we need is walking distance to nice school, some park maybe, public transportation, shops, sport facilities

School/language
- We want our kids to integrate to Swedish society as soon as possible, so public school for them, they will be 13 and 9 next year, both would go to compulsory school, is it different school for their age?
- How quick can children learn Swedish language? Their English is really at beginner’s level, would they have problems integrating?
- They also play some sports, one in playing Ice hockey and one football, is it expensive to do sports in Sweden?

So much for start, would really appreciate your comments,
Best regards,
Go to the top of the page
+
yet another brit
post 19.Aug.2016, 07:52 PM
Post #2
Joined: 5.Jan.2013

Welcome to Sweden!

Let's see if I can answer you...

Range for my position between 36.000 SEK – 54.000 SEK. (dont know if that is before or after tax)

Almost certainly before tax.

- I will try to negotiate beter salary as entry level, how much to stretch?
- Is that sufficient, can a family of 4 live on that even if it is 36000 before tax?


You can live for sure on 36 before tax, though it isn't luxury. Remember that SE assumes both partners work, and to make the money go round it is usual that both do, and indeed it can/will be boring to be a housewife/househusband.

How far to go? Well, in my business, 36k would be someone with professional qualifications and with a few years experience, and 54k is a good and/or senior individual contributor or a junior manager. And as above, salaries and the level of comfort associated with them, do assume that both partners work.

- In my country we also get travel to work compensation and lunch money, is in Sweden the same?

Travel to work (over a certain threshold) is tax deductible. Some places will have subsidised lunch (on which you might have to pay a small benefit tax!). It will depend.

- We also get child allowance, same in Sweden, how much?

1050 SEK/month/child

- What kind of benefits can I expect from state owned company?

Access to gym, maybe free fruit and water at work, not so much more.

- Which part of Norrkoping to rent or is Linkoping nicer city to live for family and commute to work to Norrkoping?
- What we need is walking distance to nice school, some park maybe, public transportation, shops, sport facilities


Don't know, as haven't lived in either. What I can say is that both places are not Stockholm, and therefore you have a chance of actually finding an affordable place to live!

Linköping is a university town, Norrköping isn't. That may or may not be useful information to you.


School/language
- We want our kids to integrate to Swedish society as soon as possible, so public school for them, they will be 13 and 9 next year, both would go to compulsory school, is it different school for their age?


Well, there basically aren't any private schools in the foreign sense, so you won't have to worry there. There may be places calling themselves "International schools" (especially in Linköping) but you would have to ask around/talk to the school about what that actually means. It might mean they teach in English to the children of expats, or it might mean they are located where no-one speaks Swedish (think about the potential difference!).If in doubt, drive round the area around the school and observe the clientele.

It could be your kids are at the same school, or maybe not. The schools divide up into years F1-3 "low" (roughly ages 6-9), years 4-6 "middle" (ages 10-12) and years 7-9 "high", (ages 13-15), so they are 16 when they finish. However, schools may be only one of those groups, or they may cover the whole range. So it will depend.

- How quick can children learn Swedish language? Their English is really at beginner’s level, would they have problems integrating?


Seems to happen fast...faster than the parents. But talk to the school about what support etc they can (and are in fact required) to provide.

- They also play some sports, one in playing Ice hockey and one football, is it expensive to do sports in Sweden?

No, there will be local clubs that provide low-cost participation in both these. This is a big thing. A difference from other countries is that it is clubs (rather than schools) that teach children competitive sports.

Enjoy!
Go to the top of the page
+
kajo
post 20.Aug.2016, 08:01 PM
Post #3
Joined: 19.Aug.2016

Brit thanks for reply wink.gif,
We will be living only from my salary, at least for some time, there will be so much stuff around kids to do, that she will be fully occupied with them (well me to, but little less, due to work),.
So what you are telling me is that 36k for family of 4 is enough to go through month,
What is luxury for you guys or living normal 36k life?
I will try to get some aditional info regarding schools and areas in Norrkoping,
Is there anything else that we should be aware before deciding to move to Sweden?
I know that the climate can be an issue, especially in winter time?
Best regards,
Kajo
Go to the top of the page
+
Emerentia
post 21.Aug.2016, 09:53 AM
Post #4
Joined: 23.Dec.2011

The average salary in Sweden is about 32 000 SEK (24 134 SEK after tax), so you as a couple earning just 36 000 (26828 SEK after tax) in total will of course be a bit on the low side, since you will be only one of you making money, but you will be able to make it, even if you will have less money than the average couple.

If you don't drink, smoke or drive and cook your food at home, instead of eating out, you will be able to save money for instance. It's hard to know what you can save money on, not knowing anything about your life style and the things you usually do.

You can use Numbeo to get a cost of living comparison between Norrköping and the city you are from:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compa...ity2=Norrkoping (I used Stockholm as comparison here, but you can change it to the city you are from)

I don't know much about Norrköping, but I found this question on a forum from a person planning to move there, and other's replying about which areas they perfer there. It's in Swedish, but you can google translate it (but be aware of that google translations sometimes could turn out weird).

http://www.familjeliv.se/forum/thread/6876...till-norrkoping (original in Swedish)
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=s...till-norrkoping (google translation)

One way to check out an area or a street, if it's a nice place to live, is to use the map service "hitta" https://www.hitta.se and then type in the street and area and then chose the symbol that says "livsstil" (life style). Then you will get some statistics of the people living there, their average income, what they vote for, what cars they drive, what kind of interests they have and so on.

Another way is to go to Hemnet, which is the biggest site if you want to buy a house or a flat, but even if you're looking to rent, it's useful, because the areas where people are willing to pay the most to live in, is probably nicer than the places where people won't pay as much. It's also a good way for you to just check out some pictures of how houses and flats looks like in an area you're interested in.
http://www.hemnet.se/bostader?location_ids%5B%5D=898709

Here is a map over schools in Norrköping:
http://kartor.norrkoping.se/cbkort?selecto...;profile=kartor

Icehockey is one of the hobbies that costs the most, here is an article (a bit old though) about different costs (Ice hockey is "ishockey), and they estimate that it costs about 10700 SEK per year and child, while fotball (fotboll) costs abou 3 700 SEK per year and child.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/wendela/familj/article12036677.ab

Here are some contact information to a hockey club in Norrköping, you can contact them and ask about how much it would cost for your kid to play hockey there.
http://www.svenskalag.se/vitahasten/kontakt

And about football (soccer) you could perhaps try this one:
http://www.ifknorrkopingungdom.se/bollislekochspel/kontakt

If your kids are really into sports, then perhaps a sports school would be the right choice for them. Like this one in Norrköping:
http://www.prolympia.se/norrkoping/

The kids will learn Swedish fast, especially if they are doing sports and stay active.

Get them some books or audio books in Swedish now before you get here, preferably some books they already have in their own language and know. Watch Swedish movies with them. it's good for them, and you to surround yourself with the Swedish language as much as possible and train. Make it into a game, where you, for instance around the dinner table try to name as many things around you in Swedish like "mat" (food), "tallrik" (plate), "gaffel" (fork), "stol" (chair), "bord" (table) etc.
https://www.duolingo.com/ is a great way to learn a language, so they, and you, will have some basic Swedish language skills when you arrive.

Btw, Norrköping is close to Kolmården, that is a place your kids might will enjoy. It's the biggest zoo in Scandinavia. http://www.kolmarden.com/

Good luck!
Go to the top of the page
+
kajo
post 22.Aug.2016, 02:10 PM
Post #5
Joined: 19.Aug.2016

Emerentia, thank you for the effort, it's helping me understand in what are we getting to wink.gif

I will defiantly try to negotiate better salary, Are arguments:
- that currently I’m making 2x average salary in my country and expecting to maintain the same quality of live (which could mean 2 average Swedish salary) and
- 10 years experience in area of work that I’m applying for, valid?

Dont drink or smoke, we even now don’t go out eating a lot, like to do different sports, (biking, skiing, swimming...), so most of "available" money will go for our family activities. So what I was hoping to hear is that we won't have to limit our family time and associated activities.

Thank you for map service "hitta", it was useful, I somehow see us living in Eneby, Haga, Pryssgården area. But I think it will be difficult to find something to rent there.

About sports, I was looking the same clubs, I will go and see them when i get to Norrkoping wink.gif

Schools are still to be discussed, it also depends where will we find apartment/house to live, but your list helps a lot! Will do some visits, when i get there.

My family will start learning Swedish (in our country) as soon I get the job, so they will have some basics when they would join me.

And zoo, wow defiantly a place to visit, wink.gif
Thank you again,
Best regards,
Kajo
Go to the top of the page
+
moodyb
post 22.Aug.2016, 02:45 PM
Post #6
Joined: 15.Jun.2016

The biggest issue you will face if you are coming from a country with a less egalitarian set up is that you will feel relatively deprived, even if your salary is high in absolute terms (i.e. even if you get the higher end of this). And this does make people frustrated, I've met countless examples of that.
Pretty much any local couple in your age range will have (sometimes significantly) higher disposable income than you and as people have already pointed out, the prices will reflect that.
After tax for 50 000 in Norrköping is 33 000 sek. That is less than you'd get out of two pretax salaries of 22000 which is something probably literally anyone with any sort of a job and of your age (assuming you cannot be in our 20s with kids of this age) makes. So, what that means, your kids will be in the bottom of their class when it comes to the purchasing power of their parents, unless you move to a problem area. At the same time, there will be no financial and logistic incentives to have a stay at home partner (i.e. you will receive no tax breaks or allowances and will be able to have your kids at school full time and fed a cooked meal without any particular expenditure involved).
This kind of a stay at home wife and high earning husband works out nicely for people from poor countries but if you are coming from a more developed place (assuming from the fact you get child allowances etc) and your wife stays at home out of a lifestyle preference and your earning power, Sweden will be one big culture shock, beware.
Go to the top of the page
+
skogsbo
post 22.Aug.2016, 03:42 PM
Post #7
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (moodyb @ 22.Aug.2016, 02:45 PM) *

to summarise your point.

If their partner learnt Swedish asap, then got any job, all the income from that second job is pocket /spending money (presuming you don't blow it on an expensive car, boat, summer house).

It really depends on their lifestyle choice, where they live etc... they could buy rurally for much less than a big family house in the city. He could drive their only car to work, kids on the bus etc.. she could potter on at home with a few hectares of veg growing, it really depends on what you into and lifestyle choices.

OP,

not all schools are split ages, ours go from 1-16years within a two hundred metres of each other, same share sports facilities, kitchens etc

You really need to get a flight over and do some on the ground research, as well as email schools etc..
Go to the top of the page
+
badkarma
post 22.Aug.2016, 03:46 PM
Post #8
Joined: 19.Dec.2013

What field are you in?

I am from Linköping and have also lived in Norrköping, I would argue that Linköping is a nicer city any day of the week but you wouldnt want to commute unless your work is right next to train station. Norrköping is a decent city but try to find the best for your kids, the school I was put into was horrible and we eventually moved back to Linköping because we liked it better and my mother started commuting again but everyone has different experiences, just saying.

My experience from working in "smaller" citys like Linköping and Norrköping is that salary is not as good as in Stockholm, regardless of field. maybe thats because life in general is cheaper in these towns but also because the companies tend to be smaller or less competitive. saying that once you have a job here, getting the next one will be easier. Also private sector pays better.

36k before tax for two people and two kids is not great. It works but you wont be able to save much money. Me and my wife have around 65k (together) before tax today we pay around 10-11k for 100sqm / 4 room, food for us two is around 3-4k / month, saving around 20-25k/month. We have a middle class / upper middle class life.

I am saying this because a few years ago only me was working and we were two people living on 25k~(after tax) , it worked but very little savings, maybe 3-5k / month and a lot less eating out/traveling etc.

You will be able to survive with 26k but your plan should be that your wife starts working within 5 years. I wouldn't look to rent a place right in town etc. because I think its a waste putting money on that for starters, try finding a nice green area 15 min away from city center with bus.
Go to the top of the page
+
moodyb
post 22.Aug.2016, 04:45 PM
Post #9
Joined: 15.Jun.2016

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 22.Aug.2016, 04:42 PM) *
If their partner learnt Swedish asap, then got any job, all the income from that second job is pocket /spending money (presuming you don't blow it on an expensive car, boat, summer house).


Still, this is a very typical Swedish thing to say/assume. Any job in this situation would probably imply something along the line of cleaning, personal assistance and temping in local schools and nurseries. To assume that a woman used to being a homemaker in an affluent country with a high earning husband would suddenly find it rewarding to take up such a job just to satisfy the Swedish model is, again, a very Swedish thing to do, hence warning the OP that there is a culture shock awaiting.

When my kids were small I participated in an online community of expat wives in Sweden and went to many meet ups and I stand behind my conclusion that the whole thing works out really well for people from third world countries, where the difference in standard of living is enormous just by the fact of being in Sweden and for couples where the husband is coming on a package that vastly exceeds the 35-50 000 range. These middle range stories usually end with a lot of frustration on all sides.

In most countries there are tax benefits for one income families even if the income is really high as well as costs associated with child care that often make it quite justified to keep one partner at home if the other is a high earner.
In Sweden there is no such thing and that will be a shock for someone used to living in this kind of an arrangement. Of course if the wife will see this as a great opportunity to take up studying, a new hobby or an own business it can work out great for them. But if they are expecting to live a middle class life on one salary, even if strongly above the median, they are likely to be surprised.
Go to the top of the page
+
littleviking
post 22.Aug.2016, 07:08 PM
Post #10
Joined: 26.Feb.2014

moodyb its is a swedish way since this is how it work in order to be able to pay your bils and be able to buy better food, afford to buy books, or go out to eat from time to time and to have some savings and maybe go on a holiday or such.
and it is not really common to be a housewife or house husband because you will be isolated since most people work so your stuck with socializing with old people, unemployed people and parents on parental leave and kids. and as a foreigner trying to learn the language you become isolated.

OP in Sweden what you make in your home country is very unlikely to matter, they look other employees are payed in their company and if its according to their union and experience brings little extra pay, and the more you get the more tax you pay.
as said above by someone you are better off with having two incomes.

Since most couple with kids both work you will be surprised to see how they manage even if they both work and the kids are taken care off. While your salary will be enough it is on the low side and since its a bit up north and near Stockholm you will feel the prices.
The sooner you spouse will find a job even a part time one the more stuff you can afford to do, otherwise there will be no savings or taking trips.
Most kids after age 7 usually manage to do a lot of stuff one their own. They go by buss alone, maybe not in the first month since they are not accustomed, but otherwise its really common.
Kids learn at school something like home economics in which they will learn to do all sorts of stuff and cook so when they get out of school and on their own can do anything that is needed for them not having to ask parents to do everything for them. For people from other cultures its a huge shock that kids are given both freedom and they get a set of knowledge that helps them be independent.(i have no clue how its your culture and family but the foreigner parents of the kids i teach are very glad that now the kids actually enjoy helping out around the house without the nagging)

The sooner they start learning some basic swedish the better, they are at the perfect age to learn a new language without any problems.
Socially befriending the locals takes time but its very doable through groups clubs and since you have kids they get friends so you get their parents as friends as well.
People are reserved in Sweden and the personal space is a big deal
its hard to explain or even compare the weather and so on since we dont know from which country you come from.
Go to the top of the page
+
LLHope
post 22.Aug.2016, 08:05 PM
Post #11
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 1.Jan.2014

QUOTE (yet another brit @ 19.Aug.2016, 06:52 PM) *
Range for my position between 36.000 SEK – 54.000 SEK. (dont know if that is before or after tax) [/i] Almost certainly before tax. [i]- I will try to negotiate beter salar ... (show full quote)
That range looks like the range from entry level to experienced. Sweden has one of the smallest gaps in the world for income between entry and experienced. Who on earth gave you the range? The fact is you can only argue higher based upon experience and expected responsibility, and even then the employer (who probably has a collective agreement with a union) will have to pass it through the Trade Union to see if they object.

QUOTE (yet another brit @ 19.Aug.2016, 06:52 PM) *
they will be 13 and 9 next year, both would go to compulsory school
QUOTE (yet another brit @ 19.Aug.2016, 06:52 PM) *
there will be so much stuff around kids to do, that she will be fully occupied with them (well me to, but little less, due to work)
Seriously? ohmy.gif too much to do with the kids!

Sweden has no concept for stay-at-home-mom (or dad for that matter), the entire welfare system is purposely constructed around people "doing something", being sick, on recognised parental leave, studying, seeking work, working... Your wife will be considered as "doing nothing". This has major impact on things like welfare benefits (e.g. sickness), pension etc... I do hope that You make additional private provisions for your wife's pension for those years she is losing now?

Also keep in mind that your wife, once she starts to look for work, will have to explain these missing working years. If you intend to stay in Sweden long, then I do advise against stay-at-home-mom. Explaining not working as staying at home for children that are 9+ (heck even younger in Sweden) will give cause for concern with prospective employers, it certainly will not be viewed positively, especially since the children are not even at home because of school. This could have major impact on her future employment possibilities. Best to get into some part-time work, self-employed working from home, or at a minimum some sort of education...register as seeking work at Arbetsförmedlingen, maybe you can also get onto some scheme there. Even official parental leave expires once the kids reach 8, which is an implied State/Society opinion that kids are not expected to have parents home daytime, except when they are sick and only then up to the age of 12.

Note that child benefit is only paid until the child reaches 16, after that if the child continues school it is student benefit and paid direct to the child (not the parents) until the age of 20.
Go to the top of the page
+
skogsbo
post 23.Aug.2016, 07:57 AM
Post #12
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (moodyb @ 22.Aug.2016, 04:45 PM) *
Still, this is a very typical Swedish thing to say/assume.

it isn't a Swedish way of thinking, it is an equal and fair way of thinking. Unlike you I haven't presumed their partner is an unqualified, never worked stay at home mum from the 1 st world.

I presumed she is a modern minded intelligent person, who can learn a language and find work to match their skills and qualifications. From which all income will be a bonus.

The 'culture shock' will come to families who think the women's role in life is to sit at home cooking and cleaning all day, while the 2.6 kids are at school and their fella is working, it's 2016, not 1956.
Go to the top of the page
+
kajo
post 23.Aug.2016, 09:06 AM
Post #13
Joined: 19.Aug.2016

As I’m reading your comments some of you assume that we are coming from some under devoloped country, that I’m only that has a job at home and that my wife is stay at home housewife with no education and that we are struggling to survive, That my children are spoiled brats, where parents are doing everything instead of them.

You couldn't be more wrong!

Currently:
1. We both have jobs at home,
both kids go to school 5 km away, to there practices even 15 km with bus. Have 2 cars, go on holidays, kids have chores to do, are quite independent, for there age
I would say that with our income we live middle class life.

2. Moving to Sweden.
There are several reasons why to move to Sweden:
- my development in the area of work (aviation);
- opportunity for kids to explore different environment,
- eventually to save some money,

3. Preparation:
when I’m planning/preparing such huge change for my family i always take worst case scenario, which in this case means:
- my salary 36k
- wife not working
- have problems adopting to different culture
- kids have problem in school

We are not prepared to move somewhere where we cant maintain our quality of life, where no one will be happy, my wife being at home as desperate housewife, kids with no friends...

That what all those questions were for, to get an idea how to prepare, I don’t know if you are expats or swedes, if you have moved to Sweden or live here, I don’t think that you and your wife started working and left your kids to the "system" with mentality that they are young, they will be fine, someone will take care of them, that they HAVE to adapt, sooner or later?
I have seen how this ends!

That is what I meant with stuff around kids, which is one of most important thing, that they adopt and fit in community, and that is the reason why wife COULD be at home for SOME time. If she could find a part time job, perfect, she is smart, university educated, english speaking, 12 years work experience, ..., but again, worst case scenario

In no case we are not looking for any social benefits that will make the difference, it was general question, to compare current and future situation.

But I see your points:
- 2 salary’s,
- wife employed,
- kids in school,
- living outside city centre,
- learning Swedish ASAP,

Thanks for comments!
Best regards,
Kajo
Go to the top of the page
+
moodyb
post 23.Aug.2016, 02:27 PM
Post #14
Joined: 15.Jun.2016

QUOTE (kajo @ 23.Aug.2016, 10:06 AM) *
2. Moving to Sweden.There are several reasons why to move to Sweden:- my development in the area of work (aviation);- opportunity for kids to explore different environment,- e ... (show full quote)


If you are now two full time working professionals with university degrees and 10+ years of experience and you are seeing a move to Norrköping for 40ish thousand pre-tax money with wife at home until further notice and with a rather uncertain long term prospect (you never said what the wife does) as a long term money saving opportunity, from that I can only conclude that now you must be living in a poor country so yeah, it will probably work out good for you. Sweden after all offers exceptionally high quality of life and if you are used to living modestly you should be able to save money even on that budget.
I assumed based on some stuff you wrote that you are already living in a developed western economy.
In which case I stand behind my statement that any move to Sweden at this age and career stage is likely to feel like a step back unless you are both coming on suitable job offers and packages that are on the higher end of your range.
Go to the top of the page
+
moodyb
post 23.Aug.2016, 05:05 PM
Post #15
Joined: 15.Jun.2016

Pretty sure in the end the key piece of information here is where exactly they are coming from and what exactly that wife does and wants to do in the long run. If they're from a country where living a middle class life equals being able to buy a new dishwasher when an old one breaks down without borrowing money, I can imagine this as an improvement in any case (especially if the wife is in an employable field or willing to take "any" job in the real Swedish sense of the term wink.gif). If they are from a normal developed country (assumption I initially made due to mentioned child allowances and job benefits but on a second thought, it can probably be any ex communist block country that would have those but still consider 1000€ net an enormous salary), not so much.
Go to the top of the page
+

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: