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Amazon in Sweden

Bringing jobs and better prices to the country.

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Svedallas
post 18.Sep.2018, 09:44 PM
Post #1
Joined: 21.Apr.2016

Amazon is opening in Sweden. But they are tax evaders.
How will this pan out for Sweden? Will they be able to create a monopoly?

Let's make this to a good discussion topic, and no visa talk or housing talk here please.
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Martian
post 19.Sep.2018, 01:03 AM
Post #2
Joined: 24.Jun.2015

Hello Svedallas,
Will you marry me and give me visa? Can I also move in with you so that I can jump this crazy housing queue? tongue.gif

Back to the topic, Let's begin by you giving some reliable sources to substantiate your claim. I hope your sources are not from little fingers' tweets? Sweden is not a tax haven.
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skogsbo
post 19.Sep.2018, 05:53 AM
Post #3
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

I don't think they'll come because the kinds of contracts and working conditions they operated in their warehouse just wouldn't be tolerated here. Delivery costs will be higher and might impact their UK style self employed zero hours contract Hermes style drivers too. Even if they weather the above employers tax contributions are higher too.

They'll dodge the tax buy saying the Amazon brand is owned by another company in Luxembourg and that Amazon sweden needs to hire it annually, which costs just a bit less than their annual profit here.

I really hope they don't come. The only winner in this model are Amazon shareholders.
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Mib
post 19.Sep.2018, 10:50 AM
Post #4
Joined: 7.Jul.2006

Nobody is disputing Amazon is paying its legally obliged taxes. However, they are run on behalf of their shareholders and are required to maximise profits. Therefore, they employ very clever accountants and lawyers to pay the minimum amount of tax legally.

Morally is another question when it comes to taxes. If Corporation tax is say 25% on profits, then they should pay 25m on 100m profit. But due to their tax structure, they are able to pay probably 5% or even less. But the true test of these kind of legal tax avoidance practises is if Svensson AB who employs 20 people can do the same! If they cannot take advantage of the same tax privileges, then it's unfair.

Private equity companies are running GP and care services in Sweden and are taking the profits out of the country to pay less tax. So, you either change the system , which will be very difficult as this has to be done worldwide or you introduce a tax system in Sweden that replaces corporation tax with an online tax or business rates system based on turnover or some other measure.

Anyway, I think it would be great to have Amazon in the Nordics as it will bring jobs directly and indirectly, but then again, its competitors will likely lose a similar number due to the unfair competition due to the tax issue. If I was Svensson AB, I would use an advertising slogan like, "Do you want to fund services in Sweden, then buy from us. We keep our profits in Sweden." Competitors need to become more arrogant and think differently to counter Amazon. But there's an old saying, if you can't beat them, join them. So many businesses will have a store on Amazon to sell their goods.
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skogsbo
post 19.Sep.2018, 02:26 PM
Post #5
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (Mib @ 19.Sep.2018, 09:50 AM) *
But there's an old saying, if you can't beat them, join them. So many businesses will have a store on Amazon to sell their goods.

A race to the bottom. Who can pay their drivers, their warehouse staff etc. the least possible, on the worst contract... to maximise profit.. then to minimise tax. Like the UK, the state tops up workers with benefits because wages are so low, but the state doesn't get the benefit of tax receipts from the employer. The only winner are Amazon shareholders in the long run.
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intrepidfox
post 19.Sep.2018, 02:41 PM
Post #6
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 18.Jul.2012

https://uppkopplat.se/2018/03/09/amazon-kom...ck-friday-i-ar/
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Case officer
post 19.Sep.2018, 05:44 PM
Post #7
Joined: 25.Jul.2012

QUOTE (Savage @ 19.Sep.2018, 11:03 AM) *
Personally, I am looking forward to amazon arriving.. 
Here is just a few reasons why.




In your dreams. We thought we were getting Netflix, instead they gave us Netflix Scandinavia. We thought we were getting HBO, instead they gave us HBO Nordic.
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Svedallas
post 19.Sep.2018, 07:10 PM
Post #8
Joined: 21.Apr.2016

QUOTE (Mib @ 19.Sep.2018, 11:50 AM) *
Nobody is disputing Amazon is paying its legally obliged taxes. However, they are run on behalf of their shareholders and are required to maximise profits. Therefore, they emp ... (show full quote)



QUOTE (intrepidfox @ 19.Sep.2018, 03:41 PM) *


Great posts! At last a visa and housing free thread! Kudos.

Amazon does NOT pay taxes. What they have is they have a loophole.
(Savage does not know how to use Google)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/29/heres-the-c...p-so-upset.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tax-amaz...E8B50AR20121206

Amazon may create jobs and opportunities, but it will be at the sacrifice of the hundreds and thousands of startups and medium to large e-commerce business.

They will not be able to compete with the prices that amazon will offer, like faster shipping, amongst other competitive strategies they will use to push them out of the market.

Many of these startups are for some part, started because of high unemployment.
So this is a threat and will kill small business owners.

I have no need for products that are not Scandinavian. I support Scandinavian brands, and e-commerce sites. What products will Amazon offer that I cannot already get online?? That should be the question.

There are companies like net on net, apotea, mathem, asos, nelly, media makt etc
Who are dependant on their e-commerce sales, and who already create many jobs.
And these companies, also support other small businesses.

So yes, I am against Amazon. I have been fine without them. And will be happy without them. No matter how competitive they put their prices...I support existing swedish brands and e-commerce, solely to support the Swedish economy, and not an American billionaire.
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yet another brit
post 19.Sep.2018, 08:53 PM
Post #9
Joined: 5.Jan.2013

Corporations avoid tax by selling tangible assets (eg buildings) or intangible assets (eg trademarks) to a foreign enterprise established somewhere where there is a more helpful tax regime, and then taking the tax deduction from renting/licencing them back. At scale, it is effective. Svensson AB can do it too, in theory...but...how to get the money back :-) ?

It will be interesting to see the currently proposed changes - reduced corporation tax, but reduced interest deductions for corporations - have an effect. They will have an effect on Svensson AB though, and it might be a positive one if he doesn't borrow money. But if Svensson wants to use significant debt to leverage expansion he might be worse off.
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Saywhatwhat
post 20.Sep.2018, 07:27 AM
Post #10
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

QUOTE (Case officer @ 19.Sep.2018, 06:44 PM) *
In your dreams. We thought we were getting Netflix, instead they gave us Netflix Scandinavia. We thought we were getting HBO, instead they gave us HBO Nordic.


Lol. Right?

[quote name='Svedallas' date='19.Sep.2018, 08:10 PM' post='935740']
Great posts! At last a visa and housing free thread! Kudos.

Amazon does NOT pay taxes. What they have is they have a loophole.
(Savage does not know how to use Google)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/29/heres-the-c...p-so-upset.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tax-amaz...E8B50AR20121206

Amazon may create jobs and opportunities, but it will be at the sacrifice of the hundreds and thousands of startups and medium to large e-commerce business.

They will not be able to compete with the prices that amazon will offer, like faster shipping, amongst other competitive strategies they will use to push them out of the market.

Many of these startups are for some part, started because of high unemployment.
So this is a threat and will kill small business owners.

I have no need for products that are not Scandinavian. I support Scandinavian brands, and e-commerce sites. What products will Amazon offer that I cannot already get online?? That should be the question.

There are companies like net on net, apotea, mathem, asos, nelly, media makt etc
Who are dependant on their e-commerce sales, and who already create many jobs.
And these companies, also support other small businesses.

So yes, I am against Amazon. I have been fine without them. And will be happy without them. No matter how competitive they put their prices...I support existing swedish brands and e-commerce, solely to support the Swedish economy, and not an American billionaire.
[/


I haven’t looked into any news of amazon coming to Sweden. I haven’t looked into any news of how they operate. I rarely use it other than browsing used books.

Aren’t they more of a consolidating entity of e commerce for large and small businesses? They have their own products but wouldn’t they also have things from netonnet or mediamarket or all other Swedish brands?

In the other countries amazon operates have they been damaging other businesses small or large?


And like case officer said, they might have some wacky Swedish tailored version of amazon like Netflix or hbo. Pretty much the same but still different enough to slightly piss one off.
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skogsbo
post 20.Sep.2018, 09:12 AM
Post #11
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

The days of Amazon being shop front for other shops are long gone. Such is their scale they buy in bulk from the manufacturers, employ thousand on low in huge warehouses etc. They kill local business. Because the wages are so low, their employees still get welfare benefits. States are in effect subsidising Amazon shareholder profits or dividends.
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Mib
post 20.Sep.2018, 03:22 PM
Post #12
Joined: 7.Jul.2006

QUOTE (skogsbo @ 20.Sep.2018, 10:12 AM) *
The days of Amazon being shop front for other shops are long gone. Such is their scale they buy in bulk from the manufacturers, employ thousand on low in huge warehouses etc. ... (show full quote)


I would say, it's growing. It's become a storefront to many small businesses, like Ebay. Even Marks & Spencers have some of their products on there and their former digital director has suggested they use them more. It's like Amazon's Web Services. They've optimised it to the point that it doesn't make financial sense for some companies to create their own equivalent system. The same seems to be happening now with the Amazon store being used as a storefront for many retailers. It makes financial sense with all of the infrastructure, delivery services etc already in the backend. Therefore, cheaper to set up and launch.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 20.Sep.2018, 03:43 PM
Post #13
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

FYI...

Amazon was once a start-up too!!!

It was years before it turned a profit!!!

And due to its success and the fact that its low prices are a boon to consumers, it is now looked on as a pariah and job/opportunity killer...

So much for the economic dream of working hard and being successful!!!

Communism rules!!! rolleyes.gif
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Saywhatwhat
post 20.Sep.2018, 05:48 PM
Post #14
Joined: 15.Feb.2018

My question is... When will amazon have their own news network? Or Netflix? Who will be first?
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Bsmith
post 21.Sep.2018, 10:30 AM
Post #15
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

If Amazon determines that there is profit to be made in Sweden, it will come. There will be both positive and negative effects. End of story.
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