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Unable to get a Personnummer

But happily still here

Pezah
post 10.Jan.2011, 03:49 PM
Post #1
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 10.Jan.2011

Hi All

First and formost this is a question about how one goes about getting a personnummer if you have been told you cant get one.

Im a Scot and I arrived in Sweden from the UK around 6 weeks ago with my wife who lived in Sweden a few years ago whist studying. We carried out some research on moving including reading the forums here and any information we could find long before we left. We have Swedish friends who were all encouraging and so we arrived with some savings behind us and with a flat secured for as long as required from a Swedish friend. We dutifully applied in person at the Skatteverket in Stockholm with our passports, marriage and birth certificates in a process which seemed far too easy and quick.

Around two weeks later we received a letter from the office in Karlstad asking us to provide more information. Either a residence permit, proof of funds and/or health insurance. I went to the Migrationsverket and spoke to a nice chap there who explained there is some sort of disagreement between the different offices and that we couldn't get the permit without first having the personnummer. He also explained not to worry about the 3 month limit on looking for work as we were both EU citizens and it is just a formality to get a rubber stamp - besides, he pointed out that they have no way of proving when we arrived/left/came back to Sweden. We sent off a letter along with a print out of our bank account savings, including some savings in our Swedish account that we managed to open after visiting several banks. We also included a copy of the european health card.

To cut a long story short we have been told that we dont have enough savings - apparently you need 15000 euros each to cover a 3 month job seeking period! To be honest this doesn't concern me as we have savings to be able to comfortably stay for utpto a year In actual fact we have signed a rent/lease to that effect. The annoying thing is that we are now non-entities in Sweden. It was a chore trying to open a bank account and getting set up for an electricity account - basic services that as an EU citizen I naively thought I had the freedom to have anywhere I choose.

Im in a bit of a no mans land of trying to improve the language by taking private or free lessons as I cant get onto SFI (My wife speaks fluent Swedish and is doing well and hopefully will find a job first). Ive taken private lessons which really helped but dont want to use all my cash on that. I really dont mind about the person nummer other than I would like broadband to be able to do some remote work for my ex employer in the UK whist I continue to look for work here.


The question is how can one get the number? My own experience tells me if I speak to enough people it will happen as per the bank and electricity company who eventually let me have an account. Of course I I get a job then that would help but Ive found on some agency websites it asks you to quote the number? It really seems like a a catch 22 at the moment. Meantime I have been registering and making the best of what we have.

Anyone else in similar circumstances?
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Nemesis
post 10.Jan.2011, 03:53 PM
Post #2
Location: Skåne
Joined: 14.Apr.2009

QUOTE (Pezah @ 10.Jan.2011, 03:49 PM) *
Hi AllFirst and formost this is a question about how one goes about getting a personnummer if you have been told you cant get one.I arrived in Sweden from the UK around 6 week ... (show full quote)



This is nonsense by migrationsverket.

You are born in Scotland and a UK citizen. You should have been issued with a personal number, without a problem.

Contact the British embassy, as you are obviously being deliberately fucked around by migrationsverket.
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Jamtjim
post 10.Jan.2011, 04:16 PM
Post #3
Joined: 11.Sep.2006

I agree with Nemesis, as a EU citizen you are entitled to exactly the same rights to that of a native Swede and that includes a personal number. Talk to a lawyer if you have any further problems with Migrationsverket as a quick call from them may ease the situation and most lawyers offer free a few minutes of free advice.
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Gordy
post 10.Jan.2011, 04:28 PM
Post #4
Location: Skåne
Joined: 1.Oct.2005

Hopefully you get sorted with the PN soon, as for the broadband I work on a 3 (tre.se) prepaid mobile phone sim in a dongle, I get a good connection almost everywhere with 2.5 Mb download speed and 1 Mb upload, The connection never drops and I get a good ping. So unless you have higher requirements I would suggest you give that a go yourself.
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Micardo
post 10.Jan.2011, 05:30 PM
Post #5
Joined: 22.May.2006

This is normal Migrationsverket nonsense. I had a similar problem. It seems that under the EU laws migrationsverket now have a lot less to do so they like to to try to create work. Register a car in your name and then you will be issued with a tempory person number, you can use this for quite a lot of things. Read up on the rules and dont take no for an answer and they will give in. I had to "thump on the counter" and demand to see the boss. If you have no money and are a refugee its no problem, heres a house, heres some money, heres a person no, how else can we help ??
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Rick Methven
post 10.Jan.2011, 06:04 PM
Post #6
Location: Linköping
Joined: 30.Nov.2005

There seem to be a lot of work shy arseholes in Skatteverket who not only do they not know their arse from their lbows but are also ignorant of the law. As an EU citizen you have the right to live in Sweden just as a Swede has the right to live in the UK, only difference is that the UK does not have the PN/registration bit.

8 years ago when we moved back to Sweden the idiot in Skatteverket gave me a PN but said that my son who was a Swedish passport holder did not have the right to live in Sweden even when his SWEDISH passport was shoved under his nose. It took a few phone calls and some threatening to get his PN 'found'.

We did this after calling the Jonköping office which seems to be some sort of head office for Skatteverket on migration matters
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Pezah
post 10.Jan.2011, 06:36 PM
Post #7
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 10.Jan.2011

Thanks for the replies. I have been trying to work out the correct answer to this and kept hearing different replies. At least here there seems to be a general consensus that we should be able to get it.

I have met a couple of people both EU citizens, one with a job and one without and both have personnummers. Hence the feeling that it seems like it is only us having this issue. Someone else mentioned the law changed on 1st October but again trying to get confirmation is like pulling teeth. I can understand the need to stop people from taking lots of benefits. I am only really interested in SFI - and the ability to stop living under the radar and actually buy services in my own name

Im heading to the Skatteverket tomorrow to see if I can get some action so I'll update the post to let you know of any progress.
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Furu
post 10.Jan.2011, 07:46 PM
Post #8
Joined: 16.Jan.2008

SKVT gave you correct information. The rules changed last year but I am not sure about the date.

They no longer issue PN unless you have a ROR approved by MSVT.

Form to apply for ROR http://www.migrationsverket.se/download/18...r_140011_en.pdf

One of my friends from EU was not issued PN because the ROR was refused as she did not have an EUHIC.
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djmarko
post 10.Jan.2011, 08:31 PM
Post #9
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 18.Jan.2007

what sort of crap is this!!! maybe the UK government starts refusing EC members NI cards as well, whats the point of being part of the EC if they can come up with some crap! i dont think Swedes go through these hassles in the UK, there are over 100,000 living there i hear and am sure getting an NI number is easy as far as you have a legit UK address and maybe found work, I came to Sweden in 2006, my Nordea bank fixed me with a temporary number and later skatterverket gave me a real number as i complained why they send me huge monthly tax bills without the benefit of a real personal number, i got mines with 2 days, it seems someone does not understand the job they are paid for, or maybe this needs to be taken up by the british embassy for Sweden to clarify the law towards EC citizens so member states can reciprocate accordingly!!
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delfinita
post 10.Jan.2011, 09:06 PM
Post #10
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 6.Dec.2010

I am going to be the advocate of the devil...

The rules were the same since the beggining in ALL EU countries. We could work wherever we want to but if we move to another EU country without a job prior arrival, we have 3 months to look for a job and after those 3 months if we hadnt found a job, we would need to prove we have enough cash to live without using the social services.

THats how it has always been. On top of that, every country has the right to decide what other measures they place for EU citizens who move from one country to the other without a job. Of course they dont have a way to track when you entered the country, but i have heard stories of tracking down rental contracts, etc.

Its not only the country deciding, as someone else said on a previous post, it can also be misinformed idiots giving you the wrong info OR someone following the rules by the book.

I had a bunch of friends having problems in Britain (i am spanish) just for running into the wrong person in the migration office. Now in Switzerland (i know its not EU but the same rules apply of free movement), in the company i work for, all the EU citizens had absolutely no problem getting a residence permit with our work contract in hand but this one guy ran into a B!#€"%€& who is making his life miserable (literally) and our HHRR team had to intervene.

Good luck on this. I think it may not be Sweden, just the idiot on the other side of the counter like it happens in all other EU countries. Burocracy SUCKS everywhere.
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djmarko
post 10.Jan.2011, 11:01 PM
Post #11
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 18.Jan.2007

think it just bores down to who you meet at skatterverket or the migration board, met some right idiots and some really good ones, guess it happens everywhere, even in the UK!!
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Pezah
post 14.Jan.2011, 02:43 PM
Post #12
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 10.Jan.2011

Just a quick update on this.

I went back to the Skatterverkett in Stockholm as we had the right of appeal againt the decision. On arriving the place was packed and we spoke to a guy who gave us a ticket to wait in line and mentioned good luck.

As fate would have it 2 hours later when we were eventually called it was the same guy behind the desk. He read our letter with interest and spent a bit of time speaking to us. He agreed that he thought in our situation we were perhaps treated a tad harshly. He agreed to re-open the case. So we are back to waiting. He wrote quite a bit of support evidence and asked us to go back to him and let him know what happens.

Hopefully hear early next week.
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CTIDinÅrsta
post 14.Jan.2011, 05:44 PM
Post #13
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 9.May.2009

QUOTE (Pezah @ 10.Jan.2011, 03:49 PM) *
Either a residence permit, proof of funds and/or health insurance.... We also included a copy of the european health card.


Skatteverket are spot on, I'm afraid.

The European Health card only covers you for short periods of travel in Europe, eg a holiday, not if you emigrate (excetions exist for students or people seconded to a foreign office) - you don't have any health cover, a pre-requisite for residence in Sweden as an EU citizen. After 3 months you need to re-register in the UK to get NI credits or pay NI contributions or your health card will be invalid. You won't be covered here or in the UK.

When you apply for residency as being self-supporting they expect you to live of the returns of your investments, like a pension, and not eat into the capital each month. Can you do that?

Don't get your hopes up too much that the next result will be any different than the last.

What sort of work are you both looking for btw?
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nicedude
post 14.Jan.2011, 06:13 PM
Post #14
Location: Sweden
Joined: 30.Nov.2010

A friend of mine is in the same situation like you.Migrationsverket refuses to give him right of residence.How much money do he have to show them in his bank account to give him a right of residence?!?
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CTIDinÅrsta
post 14.Jan.2011, 06:20 PM
Post #15
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 9.May.2009

Say you need 15,000 net per month (20,000 gross = 240000 per year)

If you get a return of 3% p.a. on your capital you need 7,8M SEK without using up your capital
If you get a 5% return 4,8M SEK etc
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