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Use of electricity

Save fuel but use electric cars etc.

BritVik
post 31.Jan.2012, 04:19 PM
Post #1
Joined: 22.Oct.2011

We cannot use mercury or ordinary light bulbs, to save power plus health and safety etc. But there is the go-ahead for light tubes (with mercury), electric-driven cars, wind farms!
At the moment, at -6°C the anemometer is virtually still – i.e. wind generators are not producing electricity either. No warmth-giving light bulbs, so we lose out there. Where are we to get our heating? Oil is too expensive – and on the way to being used up. As is the fuel for our means of transport.
No matter – we can use electricity. That electricity we must use less of! Surely the strangest of equations. There is talk of renewable energy sources. – Oh yes – wind farms. Wind farms that are heavily subsidised since they cost a fortune to build, to run and which stand still when they are most needed or must be stopped because the wind is too strong.
To combat the ‘climate change’ why are we not taking the heat from the sea in a large scale via district heating plants. Is it unthinkable? Surely it would also counteract the warming of the seas – or am I just being a naive old duffer? And why isn’t nuclear fuel re-claimable? Is that absolutely impossible?
As a layman I have no answers, but those who can answer – seem to sit with their arms crossed. Nothing is said, so how can we know if there is any genuine, or practical solution on the way.
We must all save electricity, they say, and yet from a little of what I have said, more is to be used – getting us from A to B for example. The whole thing seems illogical to me. Does anyone out there have any theories or inside knowledge as to how the situation is to be resolved? Tristram_Buckley, perhaps. He had all the answers for the Swedish motor industry.
Oh and a bit more about electric cars - it is said that they must be made noisier because the silent approach is a danger to others on or near the roads ! ! !

Over to you folks - - - - cool.gif
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skogsbo
post 31.Jan.2012, 05:09 PM
Post #2
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

sweden could save a small power station's worth of electric if they got over the obsession of having little lights in windows, often every window, even when rooms are unoccupied. I don't just mean Xmas time, when this number of lights triples, it's all winter.

Wind turbines have quite a few rare earth metal in and expensive alloys. Mainly in the heavy wearing parts like gearbox etc.. Potentially as bad as light bulbs.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 20.Sep.2017, 02:01 PM
Post #3
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

When all the cars/buses/trucks/trains/ships are electric what fuels will be used to create electricity to keep them running???

I'll bet there will be more fossil fuel burnt to satisfy the increased demand for electricity...

They still have not finalized a way to provide charging/battery replacement stations in convenient locations...

Not holding my breath for electric transportation...

And then there is this, the "Big Oil" companies will drastically lower prices to stop the transition to electric power...

Would you fly in an electric airplane???

Bicycles...anyone???
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Excellencecode
post 24.Sep.2017, 08:09 AM
Post #4
Joined: 24.Sep.2017

Well said
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axiom
post 24.Sep.2017, 04:17 PM
Post #5
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 20.Sep.2017, 02:01 PM) *
When all the cars/buses/trucks/trains/ships are electric what fuels will be used to create electricity to keep them running???I'll bet there will be more fossil fuel burnt ... (show full quote)


When we move people over to electricity then we can set some focus on improving electricity generation and finding new sources of energy. The idea, of course, is that once you find newer cleaner more efficient ways of generating power, the by changing the source you change the power used by everyone.

Electricity is an excellent middle-man in the process. Sure, countries that now rely on burning fossil fuels for electricity will not see any overall improvement immediately but eventually and our sources of electricity are going to evolve and get cleaner.

We drive electric and would definitely fly in an electric plane.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 24.Sep.2017, 05:12 PM
Post #6
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

Can you name any viable replacement for fossil products???

Firstly, cost wise...

Secondly, availability...

And most importantly...non-polluting!!!

I can't...
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Gjeebes
post 25.Sep.2017, 05:12 AM
Post #7
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

What is the carbon footprint of producing 1 single Tesla car?
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axiom
post 25.Sep.2017, 06:47 AM
Post #8
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

110 years ago, the same question could have been:

Can you name a single replacement for "coal". etc, etc, etc. But we have replaced or are replacing coal in many countries.

Fact is, if you live in Sweden, there is very small chance that the energy powering your home is fossil sourced. In fact around 60% ,and increasing, is renewable energy. And it is very cheap enegry!

Non-polluting is an intellectually dishonest question. Most if not all energy sources will have some environmental effect, however the goal is to greatly reduce this impact to as minimal as possible. To think it will disappear entireley is nonsense.

I dont know what tomorrow's energy sources will be, infact few people do. But they can and will be much cleaner.
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axiom
post 25.Sep.2017, 06:48 AM
Post #9
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 25.Sep.2017, 04:12 AM) *
What is the carbon footprint of producing 1 single Tesla car?


https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/04/...g/#7ec3d5106096
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 25.Sep.2017, 01:20 PM
Post #10
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

I mentioned pollution because that is the benchmark reason for not wanting fossil products...which are cheap and plentiful...

We have been trying to replace the internal combustion engine since it was invented, electric motors look good on paper at first but if you look deeper they are not as attractive after all...

Again what fuel source will satisfy all our needs???

What happened to ethanol???

What we really need to do is to invest time and money to find ways to properly utilize fossil fuels that are cheap and abundant!!!

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Bsmith
post 25.Sep.2017, 03:19 PM
Post #11
Joined: 25.Jun.2009

We need to seriously explore cleaner sources of energy. We are no where near that point yet, but that doesn't mean we can't be.
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Gamla Hälsingebock
post 25.Sep.2017, 03:46 PM
Post #12
Joined: 21.Dec.2006

There are a myriad of items that need to be implemented before electric cars are the norm...

Where do apartment dwellers who park in the street plug in their cars???

In some Alaskan cities they have "hot plug meters" to keep engines warm, but how would that work in a major city like New York with all it's street cleaning/parking regulations, etc..

Some say a battery pack change is the way to go but where/who will do it for a reasonable fee in a timely fashion...

I don't see "Big Oil" owned gas stations lining up to do it, and if they do, what will they charge for a service that would put them out of business???

A lot of planning and thought is necessary to wean us off the gas engine, that has become a major part of our lifestyle...

I remember the sound of my '57 fuel injected Chevy V8 (yes, they did make them then)but it is a thing of the past...

Who needs/wants a quiet hot rod???

OOOPS!!! Age showing now laugh.gif
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Gjeebes
post 26.Sep.2017, 06:48 PM
Post #13
Joined: 20.Feb.2012

Fact is, everywhere on planet earth, fossil resources go into pretty much EVERYTHING we have, not just fuels. So no more fossil processing means the price of the plastic bottle your Fanta comes in is gonna cost you etc etc etc.

Anyway, if you read the "report" cited in the Forbes piece (given above), you can see the CO2 offset is only desirable for the mid-size "84-mile/charge" car, at 4,900 miles (~8000 km).

Going to a vehicle capacity many people would actually need (i.e. that travels far farther than 84-miles - 135 km - without requiring a several hours long charge), is quite a different story: the full-size 265-miles battery (426 km) will have a CO2 offset of between 15,000 - 39,000 miles (i.e. 24,000 km to 63,000 km). Not impressive at all.

This is far lower than what I have seen referenced; this "Reader's Digest" styled "report" seems a little bit overly-optimistic and is almost completely lacking primary references (I'm betting the work was sponsored by Tesla and others). "Union of Concerned Scientists", um, like those appearing in toothpaste commercials wearing white lab coats?

But e-cars do have the "next-gen" gimmick appeal; factor in all the extra juice that will be required to power all those expensive e-vehicles...MAX burger joints already with TESLA charging stations (and I am guessing soon, any business that seeks a Swede's "approval" will see fit to install more of these pointless "fuelling stations")!

Does the time it takes to schlurp down a meal at MAX provide anywhere near a long enough time to make charging your car there meaningful in any way?

And winter time? I am betting you won't want to be driving/charging an e-car when it is -10 to -20 C!
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axiom
post 26.Sep.2017, 07:07 PM
Post #14
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

QUOTE (Gamla Hälsingebock @ 25.Sep.2017, 03:46 PM) *
There are a myriad of items that need to be implemented before electric cars are the norm...Where do apartment dwellers who park in the street plug in their cars???In some Ala ... (show full quote)


These problems can all be solved:
eg, charge the car where you park it: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/l...d-a7809126.html

I mean we will always have cars the run on fossil fuel, people will want their hotrods, classic american cars etc. They would just be limited.


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axiom
post 26.Sep.2017, 07:09 PM
Post #15
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

QUOTE (Gjeebes @ 26.Sep.2017, 06:48 PM) *
Fact is, everywhere on planet earth, fossil resources go into pretty much EVERYTHING we have, not just fuels. So no more fossil processing means the price of the plastic bott ... (show full quote)


We can't think so short-sighted, why cant we use other materials for our Fanta bottles. We survived without plastic for several millennia, did you know that?!?

We can certainly make composites from natural products, with the right market forces, its only a matter of time.
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