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Postmen warned for stand over 'racist' mail

Postmen warned for stand over 'racist' mail

Published: 20 Aug 2010 08:31 GMT+02:00
Updated: 20 Aug 2010 08:31 GMT+02:00

The postmen argued that the pamphlets, which among other things included the statement "With your vote we will build Söderetälje - not Baghdad", constituted hate speech. They also argued that distributing the material in immigrant residential areas to be disturbing.

But the postmen have not received the backing of their employers Posten, who demanded that the pamphlets be delivered, with warnings issued to those who ignored the demands.

"We can not as the dominant mail service act as a censor for the political material which can be delivered," Per Ljungberg at Posten said, while adding that he can understand the reaction of his staff.

The National Democrats is a minor political party in Sweden, formed by an extremist faction of the nationalist Sweden Democrats in 2001. The party describes itself as democratic nationalist and ethnopluralist.

In the 2006 general election the party won 0.06 percent of the vote, far below the 4 percent threshold for parliamentary seats, although is represented in Nykvarn and Södertälje municipalities.

TT/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

12:40 August 20, 2010 by salongsvaenster
Good on these postmen! Very encouraging to see that there are people with a conscience that will take a stand against spreading hate-literature. The kind of poison spewed out by extreme right parties needs to be dealt with and condemned by anybody that comes across it. If more people had confronted it in this kind of way in the early 1930s in Germany, a whole lot of suffering could have been spared.
17:06 August 20, 2010 by Jannik
In todays political climate, its apparently "hate-speech" to state the obvious. This is the case when politically correct culturalmarxist control the media and the political scene.

Malmo is presently about 40% muslim, and is population wise turning into a pan-arab dominated city. The analogy with Baghdad is well chosen.

Why let Soderetalje run the same course?

In general, is it "hatespeech" to ask, if its reasonable to let ethnic swedes be replaced with muslims in the countries larger citys?

I don not think so myself. A cap on immigration, and strong selctive criteria, is the best way to solve the problem, and has nothing to do with hate.

On the contrary, it has all to do with love towards one country, and ethnic and cultural preservation.
17:46 August 20, 2010 by billyb362
For the not-so-well-educated, "hate-speech" is communication that advocates and promotes physical violence.

Whoosh!...can't even believe TL reported this nonsense
17:47 August 20, 2010 by comfortably_numb
Wow Jannik,

This "love" you speak of towards one country, keeping the swede race alive, are exactly what the fascists in germany were preaching.

When can we start judging humans as what they are: HUMANS (irrespective of whether they come from Iraq, Uganda, Timbuktu or Sweden). Drawing borders around a piece of land and claiming we want to "perserve" our race is the kind of "Us and Them" attitude that will only bring about war, and this time, a world war will kick us back to the stone ages.

Freedom of speech has its limits, just like with the freedom to act as you want in a "free modern society": As long as you don't cause harm to others (or to yourself) you are free to do as you like. Spreading hate, especially concerning race, ethnicity, or religion should not be tolerated.
17:54 August 20, 2010 by spo10
we have freedom of expression here right? let the people decide which party deserves their vote and to those postmen who refused to hand in those party letters, well, don't force them. find someone else who wants to instead.
19:58 August 20, 2010 by locaxy
Well...they can always quit and find a new job that doesn't interfere with their ethical standards.

It's hilarious to hear nationalist idiots call for ethnic preservation. Keep it up Jannik! You're ludicrous.
23:26 August 20, 2010 by Kaethar
Well done Posten! Ups for standing up for free speech. :) I can't believe some of you seriously want to censor the mail. The horror...
23:58 August 20, 2010 by Laurence F
Swedes have already lost much of their Freedom & Liberty to the tyranny of Socialism.

This is just another Liberty to be picked from the Tree of Freedom. Next year or the year after; it will be acceptable to censor the mail.

Calling or inferring that someone is a racists is the perfect way to end a conversation. People have the right to decide:

who should be able to come to their country,

what heritage should be preserved,

what qualifications that immigrants should have,

and how immigrants should conform to the values of that country.

NOT HOW SWEDES SHOULD CONFORM TO THE SLAVERY OF SHARIA LAW & HOW IT TREATS WOMEN AND NON-BELIEVERS.

If, you disagree why don't you let about 1 billion poverty stricken Chinese come to your country? Then, you can all learn to speak Mandarin. They can bring along some Communist leaders to complete your enslavement.
00:10 August 21, 2010 by grantike
on our everyday life at work we encounter a lot which is against our values,am glad people could stand up.i have encountered one or two ,but swallowed it because i love my job and a lot of people will jump to take over from me when i get sacked.

@ Jannik A cap on immigration, and strong selctive criteria, is the best way to solve the problem, and has nothing to do with hate.

its not fair to say they have already started when they put fees for non-Europeans who are they mainly Africans, Americans don't even come.its not fair at all
01:52 August 21, 2010 by oOjimOo
@ sillyb362 "For the not-so-well-educated, "hate-speech" is communication that advocates and promotes physical violence. Whoosh!...can't even believe TL reported this nonsense"

Hate-speech is not just an advocation of physical violence, but any act of intimidation or prejudicial action. I sincerly hope that you have not elevated yourself to status of "well-educated", in such case Whoosh!...cant even believe TL reported YOUR nonsense"
03:30 August 21, 2010 by Garry Jones
This is what is so annoying and naive about Sweden and Swedish policy. We have not forgotten that Sweden stood FOR Germany in the first years of the Second World War.

During the 1930's the Nazis in German were able to expand and grow because the normal everyday citizen turned the other cheek. Everyone connected with the Swedish Nazi party should be locked up. Hiding behind "freedom of speech" these fascists will be able build up using lies and hate as their weapons. By the time Sweden wakes up to what has been allowed it will be too late. Using secret cameras everyone who votes for the Swedish nazis in this election should be ironed out and locked up. We need to fight these nazis and rememeber Churchill, "on the beaches". There must be no surrender.

A generation of good men died in the Second World War to rid Europe of the nazis. Its a disgrace to their memory that Sweden turns a blind eye to the growth of the Swedish Nazi Party. What was their sacrifice for? How can this be allowed to continue.

This postmen are national heroes and should be awarded medals and given bonuses for bringing this to light and making a stance. The printers, the paper suppliers and ink suppliers behind this nazi hate propaganda should be locked up.

We KNOW what the Nazis did last time round and we know they want to gas the Jews and the handicapped again and this time probably throw in a few muslims!

This has to be stopped NOW. How can a civilised country allow nazis to live openly? FInd out who they are and lock them all up.
04:05 August 21, 2010 by Burritos
Those of you who advocate postmen censoring the mail need to move to a more appropriate country such as Syria, Burma, Saudi Arabia or North Korea. The left-wing in Sweden is an absolute joke. Congrats to Posten for upholding free speech. I receive what I consider to be anti-Swedish hate mail, from the Social Democrats all the time and don't b*tch about it. If you don't like what you are reading, just throw it away. And you don't want any full-blooded Swedes around, go to Pakistan.
06:34 August 21, 2010 by JoeSwede
Those of you who advocate postmen censoring the mail need to move to a more appropriate country such as Syria, Burma, Saudi Arabia or North Korea. The left-wing in Sweden is an absolute joke. Congrats to Posten for upholding free speech. I receive what I consider to be anti-Swedish hate mail, from the Social Democrats all the time and don't b*tch about it. If you don't like what you are reading, just throw it away. And you don't want any full-blooded Swedes around, go to Pakistan.
07:46 August 21, 2010 by Asim214
Freemen ..Postmen.. Swedish men
10:02 August 21, 2010 by Bostonexpat
I don't quite understand why Swedish ties to WWII Germany continually pop up !? Get over it ...this is about a postman who is letting his personal feelings interfere with his job. Do I agree with the SD--heck no but let me be the one that decides that. I just want my mail delivered ...period.. I'll ask my parents to move in with me if I want a censor.
12:06 August 21, 2010 by Burritos
@Bostonexpat-

You want to know why it keeps popping up? My former roommate, a devout Muslim, explained it to me. He told me that when he came to Sweden, other Muslim immigrants whom he met here told him that when Swedes told him that he couldn't do something or when he felt oppressed in any way, to call them 'fascists' or 'racists' because it takes advantage of European sensitivities to the World War II and Nazi era. The funny thing is, the ultra left has taken this attitude on as well without realizing that they are taking advantage of a soft spot in THEIR OWN PEOPLE'S history. LOL. Sad but true.

So you can expect this sort of reaction from the Muslim community as a tactic but when it comes from Europeans themselves is when things get really sad.
12:23 August 21, 2010 by Niggletriple
If the National Democrats are a legally registered political party, then the Postal service have a duty to deliver there literature. '' with your vote we will build Sodertalje - not Baghdad '' is'nt a hate speech at all! I travel to Sweden quite regularly, and I go to sample and experiance a Swedish culture and ambiance. If city's like Malmo and Sodertalje can't provide me ( or any other tourist) with the Swedish experiance, then there's no point visiting these places.
12:42 August 21, 2010 by Garry Jones
Niggle, thats half the problem, the perception of a Swedish experience is pretty white blond girls with blue eyes, white tennis players, white Abba, white policemen, white judges, white policemen and black immigrant cleaners and underground train drivers. If a white Swede sees a coloured person they automatically assume that he is an immigrant.

The fact is that coloured people are now part of the thriving Swedish multi-racial society. Many of them are 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants. The Swedish experience of today is just as likely to treat you to typical rituals from other countries around the world. The nazis SHOULD NOT be a legally registered party, they should be banned and locked up. The Swedish law on "hets mot folkgrupp" (hate crime) is enough for them to be locked up.

Germany allowed the nazis to grow and spread their propaganda and it cost us the second world war and the following: Civilians killed 52 million, Military dead in action: 20 million, Miltary prisoners of war murdered 5 million. Thats 77 million people. We need look no further. We defended our island in England and we beat the Nazis. Anyone remaining a Nazi is still the enemy and for the memory of the 77 million they need to be locked up.
15:04 August 21, 2010 by deblom
Of course, the mail must go through...
15:58 August 21, 2010 by grantike
well said gary jones " Swedish experience" makes me laugh chest out, niggle maybe you should come down to west coast.a little bit of decency and some awkwardness cheers
17:31 August 21, 2010 by Kevin Harris
I don't want my postman reading my mail, and what he thinks about it, is none of his business anyway. Chucking ND election material in the bin is my priviledge, not my postman's. I bet he would complain long and loudl if I read and censored his mail. And he would be right.
19:45 August 21, 2010 by Garry Jones
Unsure, but I presume this mail is not the kind in an envelope with a stamp on it. Isn't it the type of mail the Swedish goverment pay the delivery costs for? In most other countries its the campaigners and supporters themselves that deliver the election leaflets to local households. In Sweden its wrapped up in a little bundle and delivered by the Swedish post office as unaddressed mail together with latest adverts from local high street stores. I believe that if you have "no adverts" on your door that you dont get this stuff. I have the "no adverts" and so far have received nothing about the election.

Footnote:

Of course, I am denied the right to vote in a country that has happily taken and spent my tax money for 22 years without given me a say in how it is spent. Ironic when one remembers how the Swedes fought for the black immigrants to be given the right to vote in South Africa whilst denying its own immigrants that right over here. (But thats another story),
23:36 August 21, 2010 by Coalbanks
Can there be a ban Islamist hate speech in thier mosques? I've seen enough video & interviews with Islamis clerics on mainstream media to believe it exists in some mosques. Likewise ant- "x" hate speech in synagogues/churches... Hey! Let's just ban religion!
00:57 August 22, 2010 by Jannik
@comfortably_numb

"This "love" you speak of towards one country, keeping the swede race alive, are exactly what the fascists in germany were preaching."

So when palestenians or jews want their own state, they are apparently also nazis?

This makes absolutely no sense. Wanting to live in a monethnic or monocultural state, does not equate supporting nazism. This is a totally absurd analogy.

"When can we start judging humans as what they are: HUMANS (irrespective of whether they come from Iraq, Uganda, Timbuktu or Sweden). Drawing borders around a piece of land and claiming we want to "perserve" our race is the kind of "Us and Them" attitude that will only bring about war, and this time, a world war will kick us back to the stone ages."

Totally wrong reasoning. Massimmigration of people who are very different to the aboriginal population, will breed hate and violence, and will threaten to balkanize the country.

Social engineering multiculturalism is a totalitarian idea, which threatens to destroy the social fabric of the country in question.

It is actually the multiculturalist and the politicians in charge who are the real "haters".

"Freedom of speech has its limits, just like with the freedom to act as you want in a "free modern society": As long as you don't cause harm to others (or to yourself) you are free to do as you like. Spreading hate, especially concerning race, ethnicity, or religion should not be tolerated."

Well i am not spreading hate, nor is SD. You are advocating very extensive censoring of some political ideas you do not like. If you want hate, you should try reading the koran, but i guess the "religion of peace" is probably off limits?

@locaxy

"It's hilarious to hear nationalist idiots call for ethnic preservation. Keep it up Jannik! You're ludicrous."

Well it appears that i am not the idiot here. You have absolutely no arguments, and instead resort to primitive name calling. How very civilized of you.
10:26 August 22, 2010 by salongsvaenster
@Jannik

comfortably_numb seemed to me to get it exactly right.

The whole concept of a "nation state" and "ethnic purity" are products of 18th/19th century thinking and should be consigned to the dustbin of history. The whole history of humanity has been one of human migration - it has always been so and with modern means of transportation it can only be set to increase. Those who think or wish otherwise have history against them.

Those societies that are open to new ways of seeing and doing things are more often than not the ones which thrive - those who do not accept change and want to "turn the clock back" become dysfunctional and it usually ends up in tears (Nazi Germany, Taliban Afghanistan etc )

Re freedom of speech, should we allow homophobes or paedophiles a free forum to spew their poison? Most people accept that to protect innocent people there have to be some limitations on their freedom to act and speak. The SD and their fellow-travellers know how to avoid doing blatant incitement nowadays, but their core beliefs are well-documented and most people can recognise the racism and small-minded spitefulness which underlie their sanitised advertising. Such parties seek to make those that are already the most disadvantaged in Swedish society a convenient scapegoat for many of the problems in it - to pick on these groups is to resort to the same bully-boy tactics of the Nazis in the 1930s.

In many countries, it is illegal to incite ill-feeling against any minority group - the law in Sweden needs changing to ensure that no rabble-rousing group can distribute or advertise material which is clearly inflammatory. Its sole purpose is to whip up feeling against certain groups and has no place in a democracy - these postmen took a moral stand and it's to be hoped that others (a certain Uppsala newspaper, for example) might eventually come to take a similar stand and show zero-tolerance to such anti-democratic parties - for evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men and women to do nothing.
16:50 August 22, 2010 by Jannik
@salongsvaenster

"The whole concept of a "nation state" and "ethnic purity" are products of 18th/19th century thinking and should be consigned to the dustbin of history. "

Yes the conceptual framework was worked out in this period, but many of the core ideas were not new. Ideas of tribes and ethnic groups occupying a certain territory is not new. throughout history many of the leaders and writers of the time have been aware of the fact, that large scale immigration and colonisation, was only possible through conquest. Most empires bear testimony to this fact. Territory was usually increased through violent conquest and subjugation of the conquered people.

"The whole history of humanity has been one of human migration - it has always been so and with modern means of transportation it can only be set to increase. Those who think or wish otherwise have history against them."

Well naturally i think that large scale immigration is something to be mitigated. For usually this has come with a large price to pay. Ethnic and religious friction has usually come as a result of the extensive movement of people from one territory to another. In the worst cases, violent conflict has been the result.

There is always a tendency for people to want to move to places where ressources are more plentiful, but the results of these psychological inclinations are not always good, especially for the aboriginal inhabitants of these prosperous economic regions and countries.

The ones who have history against them, are the multiculturalists, who naively think that there are not massive problems associated with the mass movement of people from one place to another. Especially when these people are ethnically and religiously very different from each other.

So you are right in one respect, massimmigration is not a new phenomenon, but neither is conflict and war, as a result of these population movements.

So i advocate curtailling immigration, and keeping nationstates as monoethnic and monocultural as is practically possible.
17:38 August 22, 2010 by salongsvaenster
@Jannik

A few questions then:

1) Do you really think there is "large-scale immigration" into Sweden?

2) At what stage does an immigrant become part of the "host society"? E.g. can the US government deport 3rd/4th generation Swedes (or any other nationality) on the basis that they could, as you say, upset the monoethnicity of, in this case, WASP culture?

3) Don't you really think humanity has moved on a fraction, so that people of different backgrounds can co-exist in the same patch of land? Sure, there are wars and conflicts, but they more often than not arise from economic issues. It would seem to me you must have a very low opinion of humanity's tolerance threshold if you think that we only fight one another because we look or behave differently.

4) Would you have said the Nuremberg Laws of Nazi Germany (which forbade marriage between "Aryan" Germans and Jews) were OK? Would you want to see a stop to Swedes marrying foreigners?
19:45 August 22, 2010 by Jannik
@salongsvaenster

1) Yes. This has been ongoing for the past 40 years. In recent years mostly from middleeastern or muslim countries.

More than 400.000 muslims in Sweden today is testimony to this fact.

Malmo is today more than 40% muslim, and is fast becoming a muslim dominated city. This is an example of foreign takeover on a local level.

2) There are probably no fixed rules or guidelines deciding these kinds of issues. Assimilation is not a binary condition. But adopting the customs of the host nation, and slowly intermarriyng with the host population, must be a minimal precondition in the long run.

Unfortunately assimilation is very difficult to practice on a large scale, if not impossible when dealing with very different ethnicities and cultures.

Your example with the WASP culture is a bit peculiar, taking in to consideration that the WASP culture is slowly losing its dominance, due to large scale immigration from Mexico. Nonetheless, swedes and other germanic people (scandinavians, dutch and germans), have assimilated into the anglo-saxon culture very well. The reason probably being a willingness to adopt to the new culture, and that their original culture is very closely related to the anglo-saxon culture.

The swedes in question would probably be to well assimilated to make this question practically relevant.

On a principal level, i am not necessarily advocating forced deportation, but rather a halt to immigration, coupled with stronger selection criteria regarding immigration.

3) They also arise from ethnic and religious reasons, and these reasons have been much more common historically speaking.

It is true that much of todays immigration is motivated by economics, but the friction created from these movements is defined along ethnic and religious borders.

And you are right so far, that i have a very low opinion of humanitys tolerance in the long run. I neither share the vision of the socialist or the liberal utopia.

I predict that a few years ahead, the multicultural utopia in the west, will result in intolerable friction, with ethnic and religious communities isolated from each other as a result. Some places it wil have resulted in small scale civil war.

4) I am not in favor of Nuremberg type laws. But i would prefer that swedes marry within their own ethnicity, or ethnicitys closely related, as i fear that the number of immigrants to assimilate has simply become to large. Endangering cultural preservation as a result.

Intermarrying with foreigners on a demographically smaller scale is probably harmless, but when numbers become to large doubts will arise as to who is assimiliating into what culture.

But there are examples of intermarrying i dont like particularly. Especially non muslim females marrying male muslims, as this usually requires conversion to islam. I would prefer islam not to spread further demographically in Sweden or any other european country.
20:39 August 22, 2010 by Abbot
@ Garry Jones

'#1 This postmen are national heroes and should be awarded medals and given bonuses for bringing this to light and making a stance. The printers, the paper suppliers and ink suppliers behind this nazi hate propaganda should be locked up.

#2 We KNOW what the Nazis did last time round and we know they want to gas the Jews and the handicapped again and this time probably throw in a few muslims!

#3 This has to be stopped NOW. How can a civilised country allow nazis to live openly? FInd out who they are and lock them all up.'

#1 The postman don't have a right to decide what people can read and how they should vote. That is anti-democratic.

#2 Some Muslims in Sweden want to do the same to the Jews but there is little protest to their discrimination towards them. The idiotic Malmo mayor even said the Jews bring this discrimination on themselves (blame the victim stategy).

#3 Because Sweden is a democratic country. If you don't like it, set up your own fascist regime since you want to tell other people how to think and lock up those you don't agree with.
22:56 August 22, 2010 by salongsvaenster
@Jannik OK

I doubt then that anything that I or anyone else can say will have any effect on your views. The only things I could hope for are:

1) that someday you will come face to face with an individual whose life has been made wretched by prejudice and irrational hatred - people are, after all, individuals. Maybe then you might discover a degree of compassion for those on the receiving end and see that, however articulately you present your prejudices, they remain, for all that, prejudices and contribute to a climate of intolerance and hatred similar to that which eventually led to the concentration camps

2) that you see the world as it actually is - a place made up of good and bad, everywhere and in all groups of people. Talk of "racial purity" or apartheid is so patently absurd, that it is not worth trying to counter jt - you might as well argue for the existence of Thor and Odin. Dislike of all or parts of Islam or Christianity (or any other religion or political belief) is fine - just don't fall into the trap, that, because there are some nutters in any "group", everyone else in the "group" must be one as well. If that was the case, the "Germanic peoples" which you seem to admire would be well down the evolutionary scale, if the rest of the world lumped them together with the Nazis - when it comes to unleashing misery and suffering no other "race" comes even close. Just as well, then, that not many believe such mumbo-jumbo anymore!
00:36 August 23, 2010 by ppk
The problem is not immigration, the problem is not race or culture, the problem is islamisation.

For each muslim, the duty is to spread religion of the Prophet until they can call the all world Islam. It's not new, they are trying since the last sixteen hundred years.

I suggest that it's necessary to balance immigration to be sure to stay free as we are until now.

The mostly agressed peoples in Iraq are the Kurds and the Christians, why are they not the "refugees" ?

If we needs migrants (do we?) bringing one million peoples from China (or Nepal, or Honduras, or Russia or Haïti) will dilute the Muslim concentration.

If immigration comes mainly from Muslim country, Sweden will be (after Macedonia in the next decade) the next Kosovo before 2050.

Saying that, I'm not against Muslims, not at all. They are as good as anyone on this planet. No, I'm against the idea that my grand childrens would have to live in a Muslim country with no hope to escape in an "Religion free zone".

It's just a question of balance.
01:06 August 23, 2010 by Jannik
@salongsvaenster

1) Well i have come across lots of people whose lives have been made wretched because of hatred. Especially from the result of being forced to live in close proximity to people who differ culturally from themselves.

I really cant see that my views are filled with prejudice. I am simply observing the world through a cynical, but also a realistic lens.

History is a very large part of the material i use to reach my conclusions. A major lesson from history is that multiethnic states create a host of problems which are more or less unsolvable. In most cases, multicultural states simply dont work very well. This is not a prejudice, but an informed conclusion produced from the empirical sources.

It is after all not me who is trying to create a multietnic and multicultural state which runs the risk of ending in conflict and breakdown of society.

On the contrary, i am trying to avoid the conflicts and potentially bloodshed by advocating preserving or building monoethnic states.

The concentration camp conclusion is a bit far fetched in my opinion, and is a little hard for me to take serious. I have never defended the practice of ethnic cleansing, i leave this to the more totalitarian enclined.

2)

"that you see the world as it actually is - a place made up of good and bad, everywhere and in all groups of people. Talk of "racial purity" or apartheid is so patently absurd, that it is not worth trying to counter jt - you might as well argue for the existence of Thor and Odin."

You simply havent read thoroughly what i have written. I am not advocating "racial purity", but endorsing a monocultural state. This is not the same thing.

"If that was the case, the "Germanic peoples" which you seem to admire would be well down the evolutionary scale, if the rest of the world lumped them together with the Nazis - when it comes to unleashing misery and suffering no other "race" comes even close. Just as well, then, that not many believe such mumbo-jumbo anymore! "

I was using the classification of "germanic people" in a pure descriptive sense, as this is a common cultural, ethnic and linguistic categorization. I really havent put these people up on a piedestal as you imply, this is all a interpretation on your part.

You on the other hand seem to suffer from some sort of hatred towards these people, when you imply that these people are the most guilty of creating suffering and misery.

This is a very derogaratory statement in itself. You havent convincd me the least that you are some kind of crusader promoting tolerance and kindness. On the contrary you seem to suffer from a lot of prejudice and hatred yourself.
11:33 August 23, 2010 by salongsvaenster
@Jannik

OK - not that I think it'll do any good, but here is the definition of "Prejudice":

1.a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts. b. A preconceived preference or idea.

2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.

3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

To say that wretchedness can come from being "forced to live in close proximity to people who differ culturally from themselves" is about as prejudiced as it gets.

People are individuals and we are all different. To simplistically assume that all Muslims or Jews or Swedes share the same beliefs and behave the same because they have the same "ethnicity" is the kind of view you might, unfortunately, still find in a schoolyard in some places - fortunately most people grow out of this stage and see the world as the complex, multi-faceted place that it is. Some do not - why that should be so is probably something for psychologists to dig into.

Whatever the reasons for such prejudices, however, the fact remains that such infantile hatred can contaminate a society - it did in Germany in the 1920s/30s and the civilised world needs to be vigilant to make sure it doesn't rear its ugly head again.

Garry Jones is 100% right when he says above these " postmen are national heroes and should be awarded medals and given bonuses for bringing this to light and making a stance." Millions died trying to rid the world of racist intolerance and bigotry in WW2 - I hope, along with the overwhelming majority of Swedes, that the SD and all the other skinhead groups that masquerade as political parties will disappear into oblivion on Election Day - just like the equally repellant BNP did in the elections earlier this year in the UK.
13:36 August 23, 2010 by Jannik
@Jannik

"To say that wretchedness can come from being "forced to live in close proximity to people who differ culturally from themselves" is about as prejudiced as it gets. "

No not at all. It is a commonly known fact. there are lots of empirical studies which confirm that ethnically or culturally mixed neighborhoods are ridden with tension and social friction.

Social cohesion is lower in these places, as is the general level of trust.

This is not something i am making up, but facts which have been confirmed in several studies.

It is not prejudice when you draw conclusions based on empirical knowledge. And there is nothing irrational about concluding that multicultural settings are ridden with many problems.

this is an informed conclusion based on facts.

"People are individuals and we are all different. To simplistically assume that all Muslims or Jews or Swedes share the same beliefs and behave the same because they have the same "ethnicity" is the kind of view you might, unfortunately, still find in a schoolyard in some places - fortunately most people grow out of this stage and see the world as the complex, multi-faceted place that it is. Some do not - why that should be so is probably something for psychologists to dig into. "

This seems like a strawman on your part. I am not assuming that all people who belong to group X, necessarily wil behave in some way. This is an obnoxious simplification.

People are not just individuals, but also belong to certain groups, be it ethnically, culturally, or religiously, or some other demographical variable, like age or sex.

Cultural practices, customs and norms are very real, and people have a certain tendency of exhibiting certain behaviour when belonging to certain groups. This is again not prejudice, but conclusions based on group observation. If there were no group patterns at all, it would suddenly render all forms of social statistic inference meaningless, but this is clearly not the case.

It seems to me to be a mark of infantilism, when one is not able to recognize humans on the group level, and then assumes that all inferences based on group observation, surmount to prejudice.

On the other hand, you are not being consistent youself, which leads me to conclude, that you really dont believe that generalizations are meaningless.

You seem to hold the belief, that people of germanic descent are guilty of taking the first spot, when it

".....comes to unleashing misery and suffering no other "race" comes even close. "

I dont agree with this conclusion at all, primarily because it is very difficult to measure misery or suffering. And i would never succumb to drawing such sweeping normative conclusions on specific groups of peoples actions through history.

So again, is it not you who harbors prejudice against specific ethnicities?
22:07 August 23, 2010 by salongsvaenster
@Jannik

No, it isn't - if you read my comments closely you would see that I specifically said that was a trap to be avoided, but if you followed your way of thinking (which I am thankful neither I nor most sane people do), then it would be legitimate to tar all "Germanic peoples" (whoever the hell they are) with the same brush as those "members" of that "group" that were responsible for WW2 and the Holocaust. But I don't - as I say, I believe people are first and foremost individuals and not mindless sheep.

BTW here is an interesting video clip which argues the case for tolerance - should be required viewing, together with videos of Buchenwald, Auschwitz etc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0
00:34 August 24, 2010 by Jannik
@salongsvaenster

"No, it isn't - if you read my comments closely you would see that I specifically said that was a trap to be avoided,..."

Well im sorry, but that wasnt particularly clear from the paragraph you wrote.

"....but if you followed your way of thinking (which I am thankful neither I nor most sane people do),.."

Now you are suggesting that i am insane?! Very tactful of you.

"....then it would be legitimate to tar all "Germanic peoples" (whoever the hell they are).."

Your ignorance is striking. You are definetely not educated in the field of anthropology or lingusitics. If you dont know who the germanic people are, i suggest you look it up in an encyclopedia, for instance wikipedia, who has a pretty good entry on the subject.

Who knows, you might actually learn something apart from culturalmarxist indoctrination.

"...I believe people are first and foremost individuals and not mindless sheep."

This is a fallacy on your part. That people are not only individuals, but also carry typical group traits, does not entail that they are "mindless sheep". And is hardly something that i have implied.

Your reasoning ability comes across as very primitive, and lacks nuances and attention to detail.

The case of "tolerance"? Seems more like a case pleading for dhimmitude and absurd analogies to the holocaust.

But if you want to wallow in holocaust analogies and western guilt, be my guest.

The conversation is over on my part, have a nice day.
13:02 August 24, 2010 by salongsvaenster
@Jannik

Agreed - when faced with what seems to me an almost pathological fear or dislike of anybody that acts and thinks differently, then reason or even common-sense can have no effect.

The cancerous intolerance and xenophobia you espouse or, at least condone, was thought by most to have been vanquished in 1945 - it may take a while to finally rid the world of such attitudes, but tolerance and mutual understanding form a much stronger base than their opposites for humanity to move forward from what has been called the current " predatory phase of human development" (Albert Einstein)
13:45 August 26, 2010 by Garry Jones
At the end of "Saving Private Ryan", Capt. John H. Miller (Hanks) dies in the arms of the young private.

His dying words are "Earn this".

With "Hymn to the fallen" in the background the film cuts to present day. An older James Francis Ryan is standing over in a war cemetry, he addresses the grave of John Miller, "My family is with me today. They wanted to come with me. To be honest with you, I wasn't sure how I'd feel coming back here. Every day I think about what you said to me that day on the bridge. And I've tried to live my life the best I could. I hope that was enough. I hope that at least in your eyes, I've earned what all of you have done for me."

The underlying message is that Ryan, now a grandfather has had a successful life living it to the highest moral standards. He HAS a family.

"Earn this" is a message to all. We all need to hope that we can earn the gift of life given by so many who died for us. Row upon row of brave soldiers lie under pristine white crosses in the war graves at Yrpes and a thousand other places accross the old battlefields of Europe. And we SHALL remember them!

By allowing the fascists to exist openly in society we are not earning nothing. We all need to stand up. Postmen who DO deliver this propaganda! TV backroom boys, Shop owners, everyone. Lets help to identify the nazis and make it as difficult as we can for them. Doctors should not treat them, train drivers should refuse to drive trains if they are onboard, the tv stations should never show them or repeat their arguments, Ask yourself what you can do.

As for muslims that preech hate, same thing, bug the mosques and lock them up.

And remember, THE correct way to do something is NOT a majority decision.
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