September 2, 2010
Published: 12 Aug 09 16:38 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/21270/20090812/
Thirty years have passed since Sweden banned parents from smacking their children. But Liberal Party MP Helena Bargholtz is dismayed to learn that New Zealand is holding a referendum to reintroduce the practice.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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That is the trouble with the Swedish left wing liberal belief system, it is all mindless dogma but no science and no facts, it just sounds good
well well well well.
Isn't that great?! First "the limit is 1 000 characters, you've written 2500"
Then, after writing about another 1 000 "comment rejected because of profanity"! OMFG
I'll use other words.
Wanting to spank children bad. Me want ppl in favor using of that ending their lives. Happily me by. Me thinks those ppl who want other ppl to hurt because of lack of anger management and poor parenting should be castrated and hurtened. Happily me by.
Me thinks you horrible ppl try should to spank someone who can defend him/herself and see what happens. Ofc, you're too cowardly to do something like that. Try to spank me, I'll send you to the hospital. How's that for profanity?! How is, "NOT spanking children is morally wrong" not profane? A stand by that no one who can raise a child would ever need to resort to violence and then there's something disturbing that crossed my mind. Spanking gives some adults sexual pleasure.
When you toddler is reaching for a pot on the stove, or playing with an electrical cord - isn't a single swat on the arm far more effective and instructive than a "time out"? Might that swat not save that child serious injury the next time they think of messing with something dangerous?
If a spanking is your default punishment for everything, then yes - you have a problem. If it is reserved for safety issues and severe infractions - I think it has a place in a parent's disciplinary repertoire.
It happens everywhere!
Of course, burning toddler is wrong, however minor punishment and reward is a good method for understanding social and health rules.
Let's see: humans ARE ANIMALS! however, we are RATIONAL animals. Nevertheless, as the age increases, our rational capabilities increases, indeed an infant and a toddler are fellas who are not capable to make rational conclusions about a boiling tea kettle, poo, dressing or an electric cord. If you allow to play with these dangerous stuff he/she can day or become handicapped!
How does these INTELIGENT AND SMART politician prevent playing these extreme sports in an toddler or a little kid? Just saying a big NO or let them playing with matches to learn about pain. Pain is an important part of development!
But I was spanked as a kid and it did me good. Though its usually the mother who spanks their kids where I'm from.
A child needs to be put into place, time out's work for only so much. Eventually your child will rebel and just decide not to stay in the corner. Then what? What can you do? With out a little pop on the hand or rump, what is stopping them from being holy terrors?
Children need strict environments at times, depending on their personality. Some kids learn that something is wrong and bad, logging it in that they shouldn't do it again. Other's, not so much.
I believe that a lack of discipline here shows with all the graffiti and trashed public areas. Something needs to change, the politicians need to look at that. Sweden is in need of better rules.
N Sweden local areas get paid for each child they put under social care. It is turning into a business.
You do not have any parental rights to discipline your child with any physical use or restraint in Sweden. And they wonder why there have been 5 murders n 6 weeks commited by children 18 and younger. I bet thier parents let them run with scissors.
I think the better approach is to encourage a culture of favoring other options ahead of corporal punishment. I think corporal punishment has been in decline in most Western countries as a matter of cultural change and others Western countries did not require legislation.
Question: Why did you move to Sweden?!
Hopefully someone will see you and report you. :)
Are you all serious about justifying slapping a child and not just any child but your own.If a stranger slapped your child you would go crazy and report them to the Police .So whats the deference ?
Look at this. Sweden isn't on this list but Norway and Denmark are, they are about the same, it's illegal there too. Well take a look:
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita&b_map=1
Can someone explain to me how Iceland can be on that list while Sweden isn't?
I was never hit as a child, and turned out to be fine. I will never hit my child either. In my mind, many people who hit children are doing it for their own benefit and not that of the child's
"Spanking is an extremely effective tool to discipline your child"
Because it scares them. They are afraid of you, they stop doing things that makes you angry because they don't want to get hurt, not because they know it is right or wrong.
Basically you just need to teach a child (well.. more or less brainwash (though positive in this case)) that it is wrong to do wrong things and that you don't do wrong things, without making them think about why it is wrong. It's about just accepting it as a fact, like that you need air to breath, never thinking about trying to do something in a different way.
A smack is not a beating. Think.
My brother and I received perhaps 8 spankings from our mother while we were growing up. Always for a good reason. We're both good citizens without so much as an outstanding traffic violation between us. Neither one of us runs around beating people up because our Mom gave us a well-deserved spanking now and then.
Which isn't a suprise seeing as they're ok using with violence against children.
"Try not to be stupid."
:D.
Well according to my IQ test I would really have to try hard. I scored an 18 in logical thinking out of 19 possible (though 19 was just the limit of the test and not as high as it can be) which way above average. I like that fact in arguments.
First of all, I use "beat" because it sounds a lot worse than "spank" or "slap". And throwing your hand at someone, opened or not is beating that person. Call it a b1t**slap, a spanking or a knockout. Still a beating.
"You explain to a child after a smack, WHY you smacked them!"
Children don't do what their parents tells them to do, they do what their parents does. They become afraid of you and don't do what makes you angry because they are afraid to get beaten. Someone who knows how to raise a child doesn't use violence. Arguing with what I have already written shouldn't be necessary.
Out of space! Sigh..
Children are individuals andl respond to different discipline methods - some learn with time-outs, removal of fav.toys or videos, grounding whilst others benefit/listen/ learn from a tap on the hand or bottom.
Sweden may have a no smacking policy but it hasn't stopped them from churning out deliquents with no respect for anyone, a basic lack of social skills, drink and drug problems and abysmal manners.
There is a huge social problem here and yet people are hung up on the smacking issue instead of problems like eating disorders, self-harming and bullying in schools nationwide.
"Sweden may have a no smacking policy but it hasn't stopped them from churning out deliquents with no respect for anyone, a basic lack of social skills, drink and drug problems and abysmal manners.
There is a huge social problem here and yet people are hung up on the smacking issue instead of problems like eating disorders, self-harming and bullying in schools nationwide."
You come from the UK and say this about us? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
kaether and leprauchan do u even have kids. this is a good fair discussion and you can tell the ones with kids and the ones who dont.
i agree with the comment about the way seden mentaly plays with the kids. i got smacked as a child and am an honest and respectful citizen who respected my parents. my partner on the other hand never got hit but was scared by the pycholocical treatment by her parent.
britain is screwed because it is to bloody politically correct and has lost sight of what a decent society is. they look to sweden but unfortunately they havent actually been and seen how retarded swedish society can be in its desire to be the ultimate society.
"retarded swedish society"
So much for fair discussion. So scr3w it.
You're the self righteous here, trying to justify hitting children as a way of raising them by calling people who think that's really wrong retarded. I have never been so proud of being Swedish. It's people like you that has made me a very hating person (of people like yourself ofc).
What I have said is that people who hit children don't deserve to live, and I have no problem in doing that myself. I hope to (non-existing) god that you don't live here cause if you do.. well then I'll make a political 110 and vote for the sweden democrats.
Just to make this clear. I would rather die a painful death than let people like you move here (or to move to a country where your opinion is common).
What clicked in my mind was; If my partner did something that was wrong or that I didn't like, would I lash out and hit her? No, because that is domestic violence and it is wrong. I would talk the problem over with her and come to a resolution. Imagine if every problem in the world was solved by lashing out. Before reading this article I would have said that smacking had it's place on occasion. Now, I say it's cruel and anyone who does it is a coward!
Just because they are your kids, doesn't mean you can do what you like with them. Would that excuse apply if you killed them because you thought it was the right thing to do?
All the arguments for spanking children are valid in Saudi Arabia for beating up women for example. They even prove it statistically that women are dumb and do not understand without a bit of spanking (of course they forget that the education and free movement is limited there for women, therefore they are "dumber").
It has been proven many times that discipline without physical contact is WAY more productive and developing for the child. Children react to the behavior towards them and this is how they develop a character, not vice versa. Also stats prove that children from beating families are more likely to become more violent. But nobody here seems to read any material about child raising he?
You know that you just proved me right? And you.. sigh.. you don't even see it.
You hit them, or spanked or whatever (I still say you hit them because your hand flew against them with the intention of inflicting pain, that's always hitting), because you were angry, wanted revenge and was incapable of discipline them in any other way than hurting them. THAT is what a bad parent does.. just to make sure no one twists that around and claim someone everyone knows I don't, I don't say that all bad parents hit their children but that parent hitting its child is a bad one. So is everyone who lets it happen.
Since you don't listen I'll repeat. It is NEVER necessary if you know how to raise a child.
This is almost amusing.. it seems as I always end up with 1 500 characters.. it's almost impossible to write something meaningful like this..
Anyway, what I couldn't write before:
Me, my 4 siblings, my entire f-ing (swedish) generation wasn't spanked once. You got that?! Do you close your eyes when I write something like that or do you just want to have an excuse to hit them? Do you like it because it makes you less angry? Does it feel good emotionally when you do it? Think about that the next time you're hurting them. Why are you doing it? Because your parenting skills are mediocre or maybe even bad or is to satisfy your anger, your wish for revenge? A control problem perhaps? Do you get very angry when they don't listen for their sake or other people's sake or because that you ain't in control?
Just one more paragraph.. ridiculous.
and as far as I am concerned it should be ok to discipline your child with a smack on the bum. I got that when I was young and I am not one to stop a stranger in the street and become violent
If you are going to accord children the same status as adults, why don't you also let them bear criminal responsibility, drink alcohol, vote etc?
Hitting and child abuse are emphatically not the same as physical chastisement or smacking and to pretend not to understand the difference is disingenuous.
This is typical liberal/left wing nonsense - they care more about displaying their imagined moral superiority/compassion to make themselves feel good than they do about the consequences of what they do.
You're twisting the truth and make ridiculous examples.
Teenage drinking, pregnancies and violence? Look at the US. And there you're allowed to beat your child.
Our government tells us that we can't hit children and doesn't say you will raise your child like this. The lazy ones are those who can't bring themselves to find a better.. I mean a good way to raise a child. Typical right wing lies and twists.
To come to the conclusion that not using violence in the home feeds violence. Not only is it illogical and laughable but it is a.. st*p1d assumption. Especially when you can compare the countries that allows and don't allows child abuse. Well child abuse by our standards. Which means all violence.
If you don't spank your child it doesn't mean that you will visit.. eh that should be obvious.
If you are in Sweden it is a criminal offense to spank your child. You are not allowed to spank a child here end of story. Simple huh?
liberal thought police and social think destroying generations of common sense
spoank the kids, they will thank you later
by the way - when my kids were younger and when visiting sweden, I would and spank my kids in public just to wake the swedish pussy parents up
There are worse things than being brutal and physically violent to children too - like divorces, lack of love between the parents, parents using narcotics, smoking, excessive drinking, etc.
You write: Our government tells us that we can't hit children ...
This is exactly the problem, the government should not tell us, how we discipline our children.
In New Zealand, over 80 percent were against the smacking ban - the government ignored the opinion of its citizens, and now there is a referendum demanding this law to be changed.
Politicians should work for and with their citizens, and not against them.
I am living in Asia - this is the place, where over half of the world population is living. Yes, there are laws to protect children against misuse and mistreatment in every Asian country, but there are no laws to protect them against punishment and some spankings in case of bad behavior.
I do not know, why this all is such a big issue in some EU-countries. Do they have no other problems?
@ coswede
You.. I really really hope that someone will report you someday. You are an a-hole. You DO NOT go to other countries and commit crimes. That is taboo and when you "spank my kids in public just to wake the swedish pussy parents" you're a f-ing monster. You just said that you did it to make other parents spank their kids?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?! ARE YOU INSANE?! You spank your damn kids not because you want to punish them but because you want Swedes to hit their kids to?! You sicken me.. How can you people be so.. hellbent on getting us to spank our damn kids?! It isn't necessary! We don't need to! No one needs to! What's wrong with you?.. You actually depress me.. STAY AWAY.
Lolz.. right
Because it is said that '' common sense is a sense which is not very common''.
Lol....
Yes, and?
But 82 % in New Zealand do NOT want this law, and nevertheless the government made it a law, and now there is a referendum, because the NZ-citizens want the law to be changed.
Is this so difficult to understand for some Swedish politicians?
When it comes to some of our politicians they look at this like stoning women in Afghanistan and unlike me they still care. I've gave up before I could vote.. I admire them for that. It isn't that they don't care what you think.. in fact they care a lot. They think this is a horrible practice and that's why they are speaking up, exactly like they criticize Iran for the mass trials. This however is one of those rare occasions when a protest goes to a western country. The reason you feel this is wrong is.. like I have already pointed out that you believe this is necessary or do it for your own sake (because you feel angry and want revenge etc.. sigh).
The problem with Sweden is not their laws in Sweden. The problem is that they want to EXPORT their feminist/liberal laws, like this anti-spanking law, to foreign nations.
It is really insulting and ignorant how they talk about parents, who do not want their laws... these are all 'bad parents' 'sick parents' 'violent parents' etc. It's all about children rights, which might be fine as long as children are still small - but what about children 12 or 15 years old? They enjoy rights like a small child but no word about duties. 'You must do this, you must give me that' and if not, I will report you to social services or to police - Not a single word about respecting parents, not one word about using the words 'Please' and 'Thank you'.
Have I hit my kids, I have to say yes - rarely. I do believe reasoning with your children and respecting them as human beings is more effective than using fear to drive behavior.
Why would you smack a child in imminent danger? When in danger, remove them from danger or remove the danger. If you can smack their hand, you can as easily get between their hand and the danger or pick them up. Why would you smack a child not in imminent danger? Yes, there are belligerent children, but they learned how to be that way from somewhere.
The fact that your MP has publically stated her disapproval of what another country is doing can serve to educate all people about her view of the issue. I am not happy that I hit my children. When I did, it was driven by frustration or anger. By bringing up this issue, people may at least think about why they hit their child before, during, or after they do so.
you didnt answer my question. do you have kids?
If you did you would have a balanced opinion , instead of coming of as a right nutter.
get a f&%k&ng life and stick to swedish forums if you cannot accept there is a world outside of sweden. You are the perfect example of the brainwashed citizen who cannot see beyond the propoganda you have been force fed since birth.
That's not reality. That's propaganda.
@ tommycapes
Listen here you f-ing a-hole. I have already f-ing explained that I am talking about MF-ing a-holes like you who think you have the right to do this here, I am certainly very much aware of the outside world, I know people from all over the world too. I am not brainwashed, i base this on reality. 89%. Do you read?! 8-f-ing-9% of this country's population are guaranteed not to use ANY form of violence and IT IS WORKING. THAT'S A F-ING FACT, REALITY; NOT BRAINWASHING. Now fck off I'm done talking to you you disgusting damn c*nt.
@ TvAmazon
I am surprised by that low number but I still maintain that there were other solutions.. It isn't necessary for the average Scandinavian kid so why would it be any difference anywhere else? Tabula rasa, their personalities are formed when they grow up and aren't born that way so no one come with a "homogeneous" comment.
Your behavior and use of profanity on this forum shows how angry and disturbed you are and how hard it is for you to control yourself. GET HELP
How many have tried correcting a stong willed childs behavior by just reasoning with them. I have seen instances of this in the school that my kids go to and some of these kids are tyrants who slap and kit other kids as well as their parents because the parents haven't been able to reason with them. Is it better to give them a swat on the bottom if they refuse to stop and listen than to let them learn the hard way (police or employer) when the get older that their really are consequences for their actions? There is a hugh difference between a swat on the bottom if a child refuses to stop and listen than slapping and hitting out of anger at the first instance of wrong doing. Society is not so kind to those adults who refuse to play nice.
@ TcAmazon
I respond profanity with profanity. I am angry because I am insulted and I am most certainly not the kind of person you try to paint me as, and you probably know that too which is just the more angering. But that is ofc, your intention.
Since it seems like we can keep this civil, I am actually laughing at the moment cause the same arguments for spanking and in other ways hitting children comes up and it's getting really difficult to think of anything new to bring into this.. conversation..
Luckily for me Uncle has written something a lot better than anything I can think of. Though I am a little shocked by the comparison there are definitely some alikeness.. If it isn't obvious we both think (I don't even have to ask that) rape is far worse than this but there are still similarities.
Is it better to administer a momentary sensation of pain in order to stop a child harming him or herself (or another) - and never have to do it again....or run that kid (or another) to a hospital because you were too paralyzed by your own stupidity to see that talking them out of whatever they were about to do wasn't going to work?
Is it better to scar a child psychologically with isolation, yelling or other actual forms of abuse - or adminster a moment's pain to demonstrate that what they did was very, very wrong?
That's what we're talking about. Not smacking as the first and only reaction for every infraction. Not beating a child into unconsiousness. Not breaking bones and otherwise behaving as a monster.
The other option is to do nothing, and allow the child to grow to be a monster.
This is so frustrating.. You have probably read all my comments yet you don't remember what Ive said. It's like me saying "don't leave the door open" and you leave the door open. Several times in a row. IF it would be necessary to spank a child instead of going to the hospital that would be the better option but you don't need to spank.. or to yell or to destroy a child's psychology.. and.. sigh.. we don't do nothing.. this is working in several countries what about that is it that you don't understand? Read! It works in several countries. It isn't brainwashing, it isn't fiction it is how things are here. Children aren't spanked here (and the funny thing is that we have the lowest child mortality rate in the world (that's counted up 5 years of age).
Sigh.. This is on earth, it is reality, it has been like this for decades. Out of space
Now if a child goes to a cliff, you can spank him as a warning. Now he is associating the cliff with YOUR WILL rather than danger. He can handle your will (unless you damage him badly) and he will go to the cliff edge sooner than later.
I will bring him to the edge, show him my phobia, throw a stone down. Since he is programmed to copy-paste my phobias, he will associate the cliff with DANGER. Who was more effective?
Welcome to Sweden, where they can never be corrected due to the stupid laws they have.
Welcome to Sweden, the land where youths can kill each other and barely get a minimum sentence.
The statistics have indicated body bags committed by children that were not spanked...its only the beginning.
The only time I was ever pissed of was when that a-hole up there somewhere said some very a-holic things.
I can NEVER smile while talking about: torture, rapes, murders, big thefts (or any theft that happens to e.g. retired old people), child abuse (I consider smacking children to be that) and just about everything else bad that happens to people who aren't bad people that has been intensional.
@ sleeplesssweden
That first one should be; welcome to the western world.
That second is just old propaganda.. and it is from an American perspective (where you can throw your cat in a microwave and then sue the company because they didn't warn about it).
That is twisted.. In reality it is far worse, that's how the "justice" system (doesn't) work for everyone. Rape someone and there's a 9% chance you get convicted and our prosecutors will make sure you're out in.. 8 months, tops. With the help of the judge and lawyer you're out in half that time.