February 10, 2010
Published: 19 Aug 09 12:27 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/21562/20090819/
Dictionary tool Double click on a word to get a translation
Sweden's embassy in Tel Aviv has sharply condemned Sweden's largest circulation newspaper Aftonbladet for publishing an article accusing the Israeli Defence Forces of harvesting the organs of Palestinians.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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They would rather just write it off as apparent hatred without any inquiry or serious thought, and in this process allude to anti-semitism.
The really shocking thing is that the Swedish government got involved in such a controversial matter. Has it no respect for freedom of thought and expression?
And after that people say that Jews are paranoid.... Well the fact someone is a paranoid does not mean you are not being persecuted and targeted.
Which is kind of stupid, I mean think about it, if Finland was launching a couple of bombs everyday that landed on Swedish soil and occasionally killed a Swedish national how long do you think before Sweden reacted?
This is just going to add fuel to the fire to those people who believe everything bad they hear about Israel and support the Iranian presidents words of "Israel should be wiped off the map". There's also a lot of shame that tiny Israel kicked 4 countries asses in 2 days :))
Note: I am not an Israelite/Jew nor am related to one, and from my post you can see I have nothing against Israel or its people either.
Why make this into a Jewish issue? Israeli's are the have's and Palestinians are the have-not's. Why is such a scenario likely? It COULD happen. The journalist know it's happened once, and that there are further allegations of crime. And that's that. Why the outcry? How about the Israeli government starts an investigation into this instead?
@peropaco: Being against Israel's foreign policy is not being against Israel, just like being against the USA's foreign policy is not being anti-American. But yes, Aftonbladet and the majority of the Swedish population are negative to both the American and the Israeli foreign policy's, for obvious reasons.
Israel should't reallyworry about its image. Aljazeera english version broadcasted live their attrocities.
As far as selling organs,--- wasn't ortodox Jewish rabbi arrested for this crime in the US just recently?
"Ambassador Bonnier stressed that Sweden, like Israel, enjoyed a free press.
'However, freedom of the press and freedom of expression are freedoms which carry a certain responsibility"....
When a Danish paper ridiculed Prophet Mohammad the whole Scandinavia was saying that its freedom of speech without realizing that they hurt more than billion Muslims. But their freedom stops at discussing exact reality of holocaust and atrocities made by Israelis.
Why are these outrageous allegations? Organ harvesting in poor countries/regions at the hands of its richer neighbours is quite common. If this is true it needs to be stopped. Which is why the Israeli government should open an investigation about it instead of whining and calling their accusers liers.
Muslims make up only 4% of Sweden's population. Not all of those are practicing. So how does this have anything to do "protecting" Sweden from muslims? What nonsense. If the article had never been written no one would have known about this anyway.
Kaethar, 4% and growing. Who says one needs to be a practicing person to feel hatred? Where do you get that logic from?
I think that most of the people on this planet have had enough of the "I am Jew, so you cannot talk bad about me because WE suffered in the past"
I won't let Israel censure my country, no way.
that does this article have to do with Israel? Because you see a person wearing a Kipah do you automatically relat them to Israel?
SEB-SEB.. They sufferred because of your ancestors suppported the Nazis;-)..
So according to you the only prerequisite to feeling hatred is being a muslim culturally? The only people who care about the muslim brotherhood are people who believe in the idea of the ummah. So some practicing muslims. And this isn't even relevant in this case, since I don't see what an article about possible organ harvesting in Israel has to do with practicing muslims in Sweden. Generally I find most people, regardless of religion or ethnic background, will care about illegal organ transplants.
@mobings: I agree with you, but I find that as long as you don't argue hatefully there isn't much of a problem...
the odds are piling up against them every day....
But the thing is, Israel's reputation doesn't need a fake story. They just need to publish the story of the UN protected school and UNHQ in Lebanon that was bombed by IDF leading to deaths of many children that Kof Anan described as a "Deliberate attack".
thats my ancestors, so you are not bringing anything to this discussion. And by the way, I have 2 friends at the moment working on a French and an English translation of the Aftonbladet article. This will be awesomely spreaded around!
I'm not Jewish either and feel bad for innocent Jews who are constantly being 'shot at' in words or via rockets.
This rabbi has really let his side down and his God as well.
Hopefully the truth will be revealed.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534838,00.html
I will begin by apologizing for being clear and straightforward, and by stating that I'm a Jew and an Israeli.
The story is true as many other good old European folk stories. The fact that a Swedish newspaper came out with the story doesn't really surprise me at all. You will believe anything bad told of a Jew/Israel. In your eyes, 'a dirty Arab is exotic, while a dirty Jew is a dirty Jew'.
However, if we are that bad, how come we've managed to give you God, Modern psychology, Einstein, numerous Nobel prize winners, ICQ, Disk on key, and many other contributions including…Dana International (DIVA...) -And did it when we were less then the above discussed 4% of the population-?; While you managed to give us a problematic past (to say the least), and IKEA?
Finally my (not that good) friends, Israel was born thanks to your hate, and is getting stronger as you revive it.
And, so what? There is no hate about Israel here. No one is talking about Jews here. You are the paranoid man.
Huh?
"One of those arrested was a Brooklyn man, Levy Izhak Rosenbaum, who was charged with trading in human organs. . . laundered through what Rosenbaum described first as a "congregation," then as a charity. According to published reports, Rosenbaum ran the Brooklyn branch of Kav Lachayim, a charity for sick children that was once supported by convicted financier Bernie Madoff. "
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1913109,00.html
_____
"But amid the bribery and money-laundering allegations, the element of the sweeping sting that grabbed the most attention was the accusation that Levy Izhak Rosenbaum, a New York City resident, had tried to orchestrate the sale of a human kidney for $160,000."
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1912880,00.html
_____
game/set/match.
.
Israel will totally lost its face in that story. Who cares that the Swedish Embassy repeated that they were desagreeing with Aftonbladet. I am sure that most of others newspaper in Sweden, and in other countries,will back Aftonbladet.
[snippet]: ..."Among those arrested on July 23 were Rabbi Eliahu Ben Haim and Rabbi Edmund Nahum, who are reportedly close to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and his son, Rabbi David Yosef. Ben Haim and Nahum were allegedly major fundraisers for Shas..."
..." Leaders of Shas, which won 11 seats in the Knesset and is the fourth largest member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition government..."
.
If you would only change the word "Israeli-troops" by Swedish-troops it will sound crazy and unbelievable, right? So why does it sounds reliable when the word Israel appears?
I guess you were never to Israel. If you were, you would know that we are as normal as you.
As I'm not setting my perception of you by your 2ndWW and porn reputation, don't set yours by Arab/leftist propaganda.
Look at the Israeli hateful comments posted on the article about two Israeli soccer (football) players "raping" a women. It turns out it was a dispute over the price they were going to pay a prostitute, but it did not stop the local from reporting it as a "rape". Antisemitism is alive and well in Europe. Danny B, they could care less about the Jewish refugees. After all they were displaced due to European policies and NGOs and government organizations Europe funded.
the issue in Israel are to be blame on the British, not the rest of Europe.
There is no hatred here at all. I am telling you, you guys are paranoid. And no one is blaming the "Jews" for the current economic crisis, most Europeans are blaming the Americans, and I am one of them. In fact, there is MUCH MUCH more anti-American in Europe than there were anti-Semitism in Germany in 1939.
Most of Americans I meet are ashamed to tell they are Americans. It becomes even funny to listen at them trying to avoid that part where people introduce themselves. There are much more Canadians in the world then Americans fictionally speaking :)
If it is true that some israelis trade in dead palestinans' organs & a swedish newspaper (God bless Sverige) is bold enough to report it, why are the israelis and some others up in arms? Is it because Aftonbladet was bold enough to report one of the atrocities committed by America's 51st state otherwise known as Israel or what?! Please explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old.
In the last major offensive against Hamas, the israelis used white phosphorus. NOTE: White phophorus is banned under the Geneva Convention. Take it up and you are an anti-semitic.
If one of the biggest lies of this century America's war on Iraq is being rebranded as a 'war for instilling democratic principles in Iraq & liberating Iraqi people', this story is surely a drunken tale from a drunk Aftonbladet reporter seeking fame :))
Next, I do think it's great how you judge Swedes by what American expats write. :) And yes, they were arrested for rape, and that's how the news story was obviously reported. This is no proof of anti-semitism (one guy was Brazilian...). This is you finding anti-semitism where it doesn't exist.
just dont forget ,there are alot of good people in israel.
but the israel army is an army with no moral.we have seen it killing many children and women.
i think people of israel should distance them self from army.
It's one thing to post fiction, as long as it is labeled as such. Aftonbladet's decison to print fiction as news makes me think that there's probably a market for factual news in Sweden.
Maybe "The Local" can seize this business opportunity :-)
your arguments are basically: "look, balme the Muslims, look what the Muslims do, blame the Swedes because some backed Germany... etc...
Trop drole! Thats not argument!
And maybe the Local should write something about this??? It seems to be the most hotly discussed topic whenever anything is written about Muslims, Israel, and anything in between.
In this matter - however - it seems to me that we are getting off topic a bit. The simple thing here is that Israel needs to complete a formal investigation into this. Then they can deny all they want, even bring slander charges against the newspaper.
The really funny thing here though, is that the Swedish embassy has not yet been burnt down, has it? There have been no burning of Swedish flags in the streets of Tel Aviv, has there? But yet, when Denmark published some cartoons depicting Mohammed as a terrorist this was exactly what we saw in Muslim populated countries.
So, who then appears to be the most violent? The 5.5 million Jews, or the aprox 110 million Muslims surrounding them (directly)?
Do you see if anybody try to condemn the Israeli barbaric treatment of Palestinian. Israelis would call them "Anti-Semitic" or would bring the Hit ler name. Please have a look at former Israeli tell us how they use this method
High standard of living? Lol
In Israel, Arabs cannot go to the same school as non-Arab Israelis go. It was even suggested that Israeli Arab citizens should even oath on supporting Israel. Israel's against Arabs is completely racist.
As for IDF, it is beyond racism. There is absolutely no trace of morality in IDF. How many times a Palestinian family has surrundered themselves to Israelis but IDF soldiers have shot them instead of arresting? Do you remember IDF advertising shirts? "ONE SHOT KILL TWO" and showing a pregnant Arab?
Yes? People here are considered Swedish if they're raised in Sweden, not if they simply live here for 3 years. If you're a Swedish citizen you are named as Swedish in newspapers, but hardly elsewhere. This is grounded in sociology. Sweden was quite recently an ethnically homogenous state. People will only identify with someone who speaks fluent Swedish. The US and other multicultural-by-definition countries are an exception to nationality sociology. And being of foreign descent is not the same thing as being an immigrant. And since people keep going on about how anti-semitism in Europe is "still alive" this implies views from Middle Eastern immigrants aren't what's being referred to.
So my ethnicity (i.e being Persian) describes who I am? Something that happened to me on my birth disqualifies me for my whole life? I think you racists have no logical argument to support your claims about ethnicity and personal qualification.
Although I believe that we're not resposble for what our ancestors have done, I draw your attention to the fact that Persians/Iranians haven't attacked any country for the last 200 years. Beat that!
.... and if anyone ever condemns Muslims they are labelled racists. Never forget that people die on both sides of a war. The ones that are winning usually get less civilian casualties, and the losers get the sympathy vote. Wonder who the losers are here?
What would you do if you were surrounded by 22 times as many people all wanting to kill you, because it was ordained? The only reason why Muslims want Israel back is because it was one of the territories in Muslim possession and taken back (Spain and the Balkans being the others). It is written in the Qur'an that it is an insult that these territories are not under Islamic control, I have read it. Remember Islam invaded all these countries. Egypt and Syria were Christian before the Islamic invasion.
Hitler also modelled his answer to the Jewish question on the Ottoman (Muslim) Empire's genocide against the people of Armenia, where an entire population was wiped out.
Nobody should condemn Jews for what's going in Israel-Palestine. It hasn't mentioned in Torah to kill children and woman when they surrender tou you. It hasn't mentioned to bomb schools,one shot kill two,...It is also applicable for Muslims. Muslims shouldn't be condemned for what criminal Muslims do, should they? I think those who generalize and condemn Muslims or Jews without seperating criminals from ordinary people without seperating state from religion, are actually aiming at raising an Anti-semist, Anti-Arab feeling among their people to establish their fascist or "ONE GOOD ONLY" way of life.
I havn't see that part of Quran. You might have seen it in one of these Islamophobic websites. They usualy use two tricks. 1) Quran esplains an even in the past (1400 yrs ago) and they express it as if it is for the moment. 2) They pick one sentence without saying the statments before and after.
The Qur'an A new Translated version by M.A.S Abdel Haleem
Iraniboy, Just because Iran hasn't attacked anyone does not mean they have not contributed to suffering. They have funded terrorist organizations all over the middle east, notably in Israel. They use proxy states to funnel funds and arms to different conflict zones throughout the world. I am not sure you should be ready to give Iran the Nobel Prize anytime soon. Also, look at what is going on within their own borders. They are hanging political dissidents with increased frequency since the last election. Which is worse, starting a war or committing Stalin style political genocide?
In this regard, all countries that sold weapon to Israel i.e. UK,...contribute to this suffering. Btw, I'm not responsible for what my government is doing. According to this argument, all Americans should be quiet because they soldiers have kileld millions around world and raped handful of Iraqi girls. "cd9" said that Iraniboy and reputation are oxymoron and also disqualified me for talking because of my ethnicity. That's unacceptable and racist.
@svenskdod
Maybe I'm going off topic but can you please tell/PM me which Surah(Chapter) and Ayah(statement) was it?
if the media wrote this scandle then why they are surprise. we accept that halucast was shame. so this new scandle is shame. they should accept this.
Gilbert would be awarded by USSR if it had existed. He is a brand new fascist who believe we all should live in ONE WAY and that blessed way is the way he thinks! What Wilders and his supporters are promoting is exactly against Liberal freedom. It's strage how you can add him and freedom!!
@C9d
Iranians didn't send him. He himself went. You Israelis and Israel's sympathaziers are champion in lying unfortunately.
If support of Hezbullah didn't exist, Now Lebanon was part of your "Great Israel".
The crackdown on Iranian was a very filthy action that is condemned by many Iranian even inside the government. Now we have to see what comes out of it.
I didn't say Iranian is suprior. But her wrongdoings are definitely not more than Israel, US,...So why cd9 thinks that an Iranian should speak was a bit strange to me. Besdies, even if it was it doesn't mean and a random person coming from a country is accoutable for everything happens there.
I understand what you mean. We usually prefer to judge people based on where they come from. Typical question. Where are you from? and If it is US, Iran or somewhere in Middle East then that poor guy should clarify that he is not responsible for all that has happened in his country!!
Internet warfare team unveiled
By Jonathan Cook; July 21, 2009 - Znet
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/22076
Nazareth. The passionate support for Israel expressed on talkback sections of websites, internet chat forums, blogs, Twitters and Facebook may not be all that it seems.
Israel's foreign ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.
That's true. Visit http://giyus.org/
They have currently 40'000 members. Once a website contains something about Israel, they call all members to go there for voting, posting,... BBC Have your say programme has been hijacked this way. They even send mass emails to governers, journalists...
Rona Kuperboim, a columnist for Ynet, Israel's most popular news website, denounced the initiative, saying it indicated that Israel had become a "thought-police state".
She added that "good PR cannot make the reality in the occupied territories prettier. Children are being killed, homes are being bombed, and families are starved."
Poor Swedish Prime Minister. Apparently he will find more than 40'000 emails in his Mailbox tomorrow morning :D
Sebseb, if you are typical - I'm done with Sweden. You're a revolting individual.
im not surprised that you are supporting every thing about israel.you are entitled to say whatever you want.i have never been to israel but what i have seen is many american,and europian tv programs and news.you mean all they say and show and write is lie. you mean they are killing people and telling to the world israel is killing them!!??
when i say israel s army has no moral,accept it mate in your own world and dont attack to people of europe,without europian support israel will disapear like a melting ice,how ever i personaly dont want this to happen. it doesnt mean that im supporting palestinian militia,they are imoral too.just think how many countries have been created during last 60/70 years.who ever was behind the creation of israel has nt/hav nt chosen the best way,thats why after nearly 60 years istill people are getting killed in both parts.if israel has acted on its own from the first now we had a isreal without any problems.
you must go to the united nations site about israels crimes during last 60 years.
united nations mean :all the countries in the world. so are all this countries are wrong and now you have become a genius and calling me and europians pile of cowards and idiots.
you know what the problem is this, the creators of israel chose a wrong way from the begining.they should have acted on their own without any support from out side. a good revolution always happens from inside not from outside. so the same goes to palestinians.we are getting a way from the main topic,selling the organs of dead palestinians which is so wrong if its true.hope there will be peace in israel and palestine soon. an everlasting peace.
Only madmen are absolutely sure.
if they are fine with killing innocent children walking down the street why wouldnt they be capable of this too. so typical of them to deny everything.
source: http://www.knesset.gov.il/library/eng/docs/sif032_eng.htm#fn3
As a member of a very small minority group, I hate it when Israel cries racism or anti-Semitism in response to the state of Israel being criticized by a person, organization, or country for its infractions (i.e., unlawful killing of hundreds of Palestinians lately). Just because you belong to a race or group that doesn't give you the right to drop the 'anti-Semitism bomb' during criticism esp. if the criticism does not fit any reasonable definition of anti-Semitism. It would be like me screaming racism after I unlawfully killed someone. Israeli government keeps losing more and more of my respect every year. I hope for its sake the organ harvesting allegations aren't true.
"Apart from that helping in saving lives of people who are in need of organ transplant. kill the terrorists--- recover the usable organs---help save good peoples lives."
@Danny B
Jews have been victim of racism and fascism 60 year ago. But does it give them any eligibility to do the same thing to others? Why don't you focus on the fact that this guy has witnessed these bodies with his own eyes? You're just repeating your old things without mentioning the real story.
@Typical Whitey
Last time I checked Sweden hasn't forced million of people to leave their homes. Sweden doesn't attack UN protected schools. Sweden doesn't kill the whole members of a family let alone when they surrunder! I think the difference is clear or shall I draw a picture?
@johhnytango
when you say bla bla bla i guess it means you don't have any good reply, so you try to diminish the comment.
@iranboy
yep, people, even women and children are getting killed, it is sad and bad.
now i know you won't take my word for it but IDF Does not see them and decide let's shoot them just for fun.
and if such case happens usually the person in charge is prosecuted. but on general there is alot of effort not to kill innocents.
but if hamas is shooting rockets from populated area, well you can't expect it gives them a free pass, right?
last thing, there is no doubt in your heart that israel shoot on purpose on UN facilities, but if i tell you hamas shot rockets deliberately near UN facilties you'll call me a liar. why is that? because hamas will not do such thing? he doesn't shoot it's own people in gaza?
You have the right to support any side in the life but you should be logical and fair.
Firstly; You always mention the Holocaust as an argument justifying the crimes that Israel is doing now in the middle east, I tell you that the Israeli crimes there will make the ppl around the world getting sick of listening to what the Jews had in Europe. Furthermore, NOT the Europeans who killed the Jews, it was a regime who is hated and condemned by all the Europeans.
Secondly; (comes later)
first, though there are some rabbies accused in the US in these crimes it doesn't means automatically that israel is harvesting organs. i bet i can find Swedish criminals, it doesn't mean your country encourage them to do it.
second, the reporter has no proof, he says he saw a body with stitches, but from the article it implies it's a known fact that israel kills palestinians for organs.
if i say someone in Sweden told me that the government kill Finnish children for organs does that means we have to have a UN investigation? i think i'll have to produce some proof before that.
but it doesn't matter, cause if everyone knows that israelies are cruel, so we can publish anything about them regardless any evidance
Lastly, No comparison between the Palestinian simple-made rockets and the American-made rockets and jets equipped in the Israeli army. No comparison between the casualties as well. So do not kill and cry at the same time.
sorry to burst your bubble but this regime was not "hated and comdemned by all europeans"
some Europeans countries fought by its side. some countries just sat aside and watched.
second, i don't know if your ever lived in an area that get shot on by rockets, even simple ones, just 3 - 10 rockets a day for 8 years, i guess not
try it, then tell me you can't compare between rockets.
1. i don't know where you get your facts that israel enters gaza everyday. it hardly happens.
2. israel withdrawn form gaza in a painful act, why keep firing? and why can't i see same gestures from the Palestinian side?
3. about kill and steal. every side has its point of view of what happened here before 1948.
there are 2 facts:
1. the UN divided the area to 2 countries.
2. israel was attacked from all sides by 7 Arabs armies and the local arabs, the Palestinians.
now you can't start a war, lose and then cry they stole my land when your intention was to destroy the country you attacked
i'm glad you think that i'm trying to make a case in discussing the article.
but you haven't answered my questions, is this article, which is based on rumors and hearsay is a corner stone for a full UN investigation?
and does such allegations should be brought to press without any evidance?
there is a phrase in hebrew which says (i hope it won't be lost in translation):
some guy tell his friend
"hey, i saw your sister yesterday in the public park giving head to some stranger"
now start proving that you don't have a sister.
what happened in 1948 is a big deal. The British army gave Palestine which was a British colony to the "Jews" to make a country for them after what happened in the WW2. But How someone can give something which does not belong to him/her to someone else? Until now this question has not been answered. And that time the English army left their weapons to the Zionists (I will not even call them jews because many jews feel ashamed of Zionism) while "the 7 armies" were under British and French occupation so they were not independent yet to fight.
Yes they left Gaza BUT they did not leave the west bank which is palestinian land occupied in 1967 and what I said earlier is going on there but the Palestinian authority in the west bank are know as agents for the occupation thats why they have their own fancy life there and don't care about there ppl
Training field? yes they are , where is the shame in this? every country has training field. do not you have them?
i really don't think that many jews feel ashamed to be call a Zionist.
there were jews who lived in the land prior to the mass that after WW2.
even to arabs who lived here were immigrants from other arab countries.
there we never a country in this area in recent times (unless you consider the israel and judea of the biblical time recent times).
the land was passed over by the british, turks and whoever got a hand on it.
so there wasn't any country in the ares, certainly wasn't a palstinian country.
so the brits was the closest thing to ruling authority. and even them didn't give it to jews, the UN did.
Oh really!!! it was no people there before 1948? what about the millions who live until now in the camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the west bank, Gaza, and all the world? they came from the moon?? the majority of these people still have the keys of their houses. I was a volunteer with the red cross to one of the Palestinians camps in Lebanon and I saw all what I tell. The Palestinians had their own culture and history. How do you say that it was empty? and I do not agree with you about who ruled the land before the English. The Muslim caliphates was ruling for hundreds of years (the Turks were leading the caliphates at the end). I heard from some Jews in a peace organization there in Lebanon that the Jews, Christians and Muslims lived there in peace for hundreds of years.
i guess you didn't read my comment
"there were jews who lived in the land prior to the mass that after WW2.
even to arabs who lived here were immigrants from other arab countries."
please point me to the place i said the land was empty or no Palestinian lived here.
you just hear what you want to hear.
and before the caliphates the crusaders were here, if you want to go down this road, until in the end you'll find this land was israel and judea in biblical times.
so that means it belongs to the jews no?
just acknowledge that there were no palastinian country so nobody stole the land.
there were jews and palastinians here, so the UN divided the area to 2 countries for each.
they attacked israel and lost. you can't have the cake and eat it too ( i hope i got the phrase right)
@johnnytango
no it wasn't about your sister.
but basically it means if someone saying something, even if its a lie, you can't put it back and people believe in it
I did not want to go through to the history, what we are interested in is the close history I mean the period of this conflict, what is the reason for this situation I do not care about the period of crusaders I mentions the caliphates because the British got the land from them and then the story started.
AFTONBLADET ACCUSED the Israel Defence Forces of systematically murdering Palestinians for the sake of harvesting their organs, with the help of American Rabbis.
THESE ARE huge allegations. Israel has a mandatory military draft (with some exemptions), so the IDF consists mostly of regular, young Israelis from all walks of life. Israel is also a democracy, where people would have the freedom to speak out about this sort of thing. Therefore, Aftonbladet is implicating Israeli society as a whole. In addition to this, Aftonbladet is also linking American Jews to this alleged conspiracy. Basically, Aftonbladet is claiming that there is a huge, Jewish, conspiracy to steal organs from, and murder, innocent people.
For accusations like this, Aftonbladet had better have strong proof, but it doesn't. Cont....
Cont…
there were jews and palastinians here, so the UN divided the area to 2 countries for each.
they attacked israel and lost. you can't have the cake and eat it too ( i hope i got the phrase right)
@johnnytango
no it wasn't about your sister.
but basically it means if someone saying something, even if its a lie, you can't put it back and people believe in it
SWEEPING ACCUSATIONS like Aftonbladet's should never be made without strong proof, but Aftonbladet does not seem to have any. Aftonbladet's argument is based hearsay, on interviews with Palestinians alone. The problem with that is that Aftonbladet's subjects have strong motivation to lie, they each receive thousands of dollars in foreign aid each year and claims of victimisation could increase this amount. In addition, since we are dealing with a conflict here, it would not be hard to find people willing to lie to demonise the other side. A real reporter would check the facts.
GIVE ME a day as a "reporter" among Sweden's immigrant population and I could easily get some of them to make awful accusations against Sweden and Swedes, since some would believe such claims of victimisation might benefit them. Cont….
Cont…
yep, they were immigrants, and some of them were sons of immigrants who lived in the are for alot of years, so they were palatsinians, i don't deny it.
but again, you hear what you want to hear.
so by your point of view, the division of the land by the UN was wrong, and the war the arab countries and palastinian wage on israel was actually justified?
and the palastinian has nothing to do with their current state, is that right?
or by your opinion their greatest mistake was that they didn't win in the war of 1948?
One more thing, losing a land by war does not legalize the occupation. This is from the international law that Israel always ignore.
No the greatest mistake WAS to establish Israel on the others land and on the basis of religion, Israel is a Jewish state and this is not Logical, there are Christians and Muslims there too. It is wrong to establish states or start wars in the basis of religion this is very dangerous.
AFTONBLADET'S OTHER piece of evidence, the US Rabbi who was recently arrested for trying to sell a kidney (and admitted to being involved in many other organ sales), isn't evidence either. There has been no link made between the Rabbi's organ sales and Israel, and he didn't get them from Palestinians, he conned desperate people into selling their organs to him. To link him to the IDF without the slightest bit of proof isn't journalism, its lazy conspiracy theory at its worst.
AFTONBLADET'S ARTICLE only proves that it is frighteningly eager to believe unsubstantiated stories that attack Israel and Jews. These accusations are classic anti-Semitism the way they are written, without proof, and by smearing a vast number of Jews with the same brush, and I hope Swedes are wise enough to recognise the danger of that. After all, the accusations may be against Jews now, but if this sort of thing is allowed then any person or group, including Swedes, could be the next target.
i don't have the power to enter a debate about the foundation of israel, since i don't think i have to defend it, though i do feel that no matter where israel were to be established in the world, you wouldn't be happy.
as for staying in Europe after ww2, well what can i say, we didn't feel welcomed.
as for my origin, yep they come from Poland and Romanian. my wife origin are actually from Yemen and Iraq (which her family was chased out from as so many other jews) for some reason they don't hold keys to their homes abroad.
as for the palastinians right to exist, you'll be surprised to see the moment they'll lay down their guns and suicide bombs their life we'll improve drastically
AFTONBLADET'S ARTICLE only proves that it is frighteningly eager to believe unsubstantiated stories that attack Israel and Jews. These accusations are classic anti-Semitism the way they are written, without proof, and by smearing a vast number of Jews with the same brush, and I hope Swedes are wise enough to recognise the danger of that. After all, the accusations may be against Jews now, but if this sort of thing is allowed then any person or group, including Swedes, could be the next target.
thanks for being so articulate, you manage to express exactly what i feel and all the stuff that are wrong about this article.
and for those of you who scream freedom of the press, read Joshua M posts,
there's nothing in it which says you can't criticize israel or pass judgment, only a very good explanation why this specific article reeks of hatred.
Many posters have just newly joined to post here about this article thanks to http://giyus.org/ and their sorts!! This forum is meant to be English speaking residents of Sweden that included both citizen and non citizen who understand English. What are you doing here?
i'm sorry that my presence here bothers you so much.
is it so hard to hear the opinion of the other side?
Nothing is new under the sun. Aftonbladet now, Der Stürmer then. Freedom of speech?.... At the end of the day freedom of speech is measured not by rules and laws. But by the ENVIRONMENT that would allow something to be written. So it is okay to write hate articles about Israelis and Jews. Now, the test is Mohammad cartoons.
Any takers?
No body hates the Jews here. ok? then no comparison between this article and the cartoons which were drawn by a danish journal some years ago.
There it was ironic cartoons for one person who is a prophet for more than 1 billion muslim in the world the same as Moses and Joseph. But here it is just an article with proofs (whatever the proofs are approved yet or not ... we are waiting) about something has been done by an army of one state.
So the cartoons story has nothing related to the freedom of speech it was insulting to a person who is a high symbol for 1 billion persons. Insulting and hurting is not accepted in freedom of speech. And here the article has not insulted anyone.
So please be logical and do not let your anger mix the things in your mind.
"But here it is just an article with proofs (whatever the proofs are approved yet or not ... we are waiting)"
first problem, you call them proofs, hearsay is not a proof.
second, if you call them proofs it means you already made your mind.
third, about waiting to see if it approve or not, if i say that you killed someone, do you have to bring me proof that you didn't? meanwhile everybody will go next to you thinking you might be a murderer?
insulting 1 billion people is wrong cause they are a lot of people
but insulting 6 - 8 million is ok, cause they are not enough to set the whole world on fire?
this article is insulting cause it implies that israel and jews around the world are involved in murder and stealing organs conspiracy
I said we are waiting, I meant we are waiting to see if these proves are right or not, since this is a CRIME ,and this should be done by many sides such as human rights and the red cross, because until now it is an effort made by journalists.
And again I say to you NO BODY HAS INSULTED THE JEWS ... FOR GOD SAKE .. WHERE IS THE PHRASE THAT STATES SO?? ...if any one says something that the Israelis do not agree with then directly you say he hates the Jews. Israel is a country that MIGHT be criticized by press as any country in the world. So WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?!! Your army are not prophets or gods not to be blamed.
You have mentioned:
"this article is insulting cause it implies that israel and jews around the world are involved in murder and stealing organs conspiracy". This is what you think and this is your own conclusion, because the article do not state that directly.
jews capable of crimes, much like muslims, americans, swedes and everyone else.
but the article implies that there is a world wide conspiracy involving the entire state of israel and all the jews around the world, without any proof
that's what make it wrong.
yes the article didn't say it out loud, it just imply it out loud. you know there are different ways to send a message without spelling it to the readers right?
much like the Muhammad cartoons DON'T SAY that all muslims are terrorists, its just implies it. and that also makes it wrong.
and this article doesn't criticize israel, criticize is fine. it blaming israel without and proof with a very big crime
Listen, if any journalist draw Jesus in that way in a known journal and his government supported it (I mean supported the insulting and hurting) then I will criticize that country , and you too I will be with you against any government that says insulting words or cartoons about Moses or any holy symbol of yours, because it is unacceptable to insult millions in their symbols.
Insulting can come from individuals because at the end it is an opinion but when it comes from governments of independent states then it is shame.
You see from your point of view that this article is blaming rather than criticizing, this is your perspective.
"You see from your point of view that this article is blaming rather than criticizing, this is your perspective."
from my opinion you can criticize actions or words or policy, meaning that you can criticize something that happened.
that is why this article is blaming israel and not criticizing.
it is criticism only if those accusations actually happened, but there isn't any proof, just rumors and hearsay.
well i'm signing off
none of your arguments convinced me and i dare say none of mine convinced you.
i'll check if you've got something to add to this duscussion
have a good day
Regarding crimes like this one; press is not police, but their duty is to spotlight around. The freedom of speech has limits too, and the limit is described in the law, the international and the local one.
Have a nice day too
Danger_Mouse, Western media ALWAYS on depicts Jesus in a negative manner. He is a regular Character on South Park (not the most pro-God show I have ever seen). He is shown in VERY offensive scenes in other cartoons such as Drawn Together and Family Guy. Many Europeans refer to him as an imaginary character. I just saw an episode of Drawn Together where Jesus himself used a racial slur against Jews. Where are the Christians and Jews burning the cities to the ground? Christians are a 1 billion+ group and those cartoons mentioned above are shown to a much larger audience than little Denmark.