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Organizer: ship deaths 'premeditated murder'

TT/The Local · 3 Jun 2010, 17:45

Published: 03 Jun 2010 17:45 GMT+02:00

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Gardell, a professor of religious history at Uppsala University and the brains behind the expedition, returned to Stockholm on Thursday afternoon. He was accompanied by six other Swedes who had been held captive in Israel after their ship was boarded by Israeli soldiers.

The activists were met at Stockholm’s Arlanda Airport by a crowd of journalists and sympathizers. Members of the crowd presented flowers Gardell and his colleagues, and chanted “long live Palestine” and anti-Israeli slogans.

Against the backdrop of Palestinian flags, Gardell repeated his account of what he called the murder of nine “civilian humanists.” He described the action of the Israelis as “an incomprehensible bloodbath”, saying that the Israelis knew the ships’ cargo was harmless.

He also said that activists had picked up whatever implements they could find to wrestle Israeli soldiers to the ground:

“There were no weapons on board.”

Gardell added that he had not personally witnessed many of the events on the ship:

“Everyone has a partial picture. It was dark and chaotic,” he said, but claimed that he had formed a more complete understanding of what happened by talking to other activists in prison in Israel.

Story continues below…

Asked whether he thought the flotilla had brought a Palestinian state closer he said:

“I hope that these nine people did not die in vain. I hope that it at least undermines the blockade of Gaza so that Palestinians can access the same human rights as everyone else.”

TT/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

18:26 June 3, 2010 by flintis
says' it all, a history professor was the brains?? might have brains but he's certainly got no common sense, another misguided fool. Would'nt be suprised if he's considering changing faiths as a protest.
18:46 June 3, 2010 by Audrian
I agree with the suggestion that it is the beginning of the end of colonization. However, without keeping our eyeballs on the prize, independence of Palestine, and help that happen, this Israel will continue to kill and steal Palestinian land and US will continue to assist it financially and politically without condition. The Quartet and Mr. Tony Blare are ineffective, because the US would not allow it doing the right thing. I do not remember in history where colonialists give freedom to the oppressed in a sliver platter. The militarily powerful Israel and the US are no different; like those before them they are too arrogant to seek a fair deal. We the people can easily turn them into paper tigers by waging people's war: boycotting all Israeli goods until Israel withdraws to its 1967 boarder without condition attached.

The time has come to make this country understand that it is not above international law.
18:52 June 3, 2010 by bbeynch
Premeditated murder? Can someone please give a profile on this Gardell, who appears to lack in mental acuity. At which SSU chapter was he indoctrinated? What's his political affilations? How does he support himself? What type of housing does he live in? Who are is associates? Does he have a criminal record? How could he become a "professor in religious history" and then resort to this nonsense? The story says he is "the brains behind the expedition"(?) The entire expedition seemed to lack brains! Does he really know what he is doing?
19:00 June 3, 2010 by oOjimOo
bbeynch, just checked your profile and I could not find the following: Your political affilations? How you support yourself? What type of housing do you live in? Who are your associates? Do you have a criminal record? What actually qualifies YOU to questions another persons personal details, faiths or beliefs, and come out with this nonsense?
19:04 June 3, 2010 by Tutu
What he meant to say wass premeditated sucide. He read too many books, especially the religious ones that have confused his brains. He wanted to end his life on a world stage by peacefully disobeying another country's territorial laws. I hope they have gone to Iran. The president would have tried him for espionage. Or go to Dafur where help is really needed NOW
19:42 June 3, 2010 by Abbot
This idiot doesn't even know what 'premeditated' actually means. He's just saying anything he can think of to make Israel look bad and the idiots/fools/dreamers on the flotilla look less stupid than they actually are.
19:59 June 3, 2010 by orwellian
"...disobeying another country's territorial laws"

They were on international waters and were attacked. What Israel did was illegal, period.

And the Israelis are lying through their teeth as usual. Using paintball guns, yeah right. Then saying that they were surprised at the violence from the activists, another lie as you can clearly see them spraying water and throwing stuff on a Israeli boat below. Footage they themselves released.

Then they steal footage shot on the boat and edit it out and publish it without permission.

So not only are they terrorists but pirates who has no respect for international law nor copyright.
20:11 June 3, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
For my terrorist loving friends , quit talking about this being "piracy" simply because:

(let me repeat)

According the the UN conventions, it's only piracy when commited by private entities. State actors are not included NO MATTER IF ITS 10 OR 100 MILES FROM THEIR STATE..

But another fact you will throw out of your numskulls of course, but worth mentioning nonetheless.

"Gardell, a professor of religious history at Uppsala University and the ******* brains behind the expedition*******..."

Do we really have to read any more after that?

This is one of the main instigators who planned the whole thing, what's he gonna say?

"Oh yes, we were wrong, we had plenty of warnings but decided it would be better to play Israel like puppets and were asking for martyrdom so we can meet Muhammad sooner and see if Aishea is still 9 years old or he has allowed her to grow up"
20:24 June 3, 2010 by mukiwa
I am really disappointed that Swedes would aid and abet the terroist organization Hammas !!

Regarding this susposed "professor"......You need to reset your values as to who can be considered a Professor of any disipline....This man is obviously mental disturbed.
20:28 June 3, 2010 by Hagrid
What a drunk joker.

He admits he didn't witness the events, and yet he confidently asserts that "there were no weapons on board", and that the Israelis committed "premeditated murder", an "incomprehensible bloodbath", no less! So how does he know all that if he wasn't there? Oh, of course, he asked the hooligans, oops, I mean, activists! Screw the video we all saw - he asked the activists! None of whom, heaven forbid, could be considered in any way biased... Now here's proof positive for you. Way to go, Sherlock.

Funniest of all, he refers to the casualties "civilian humanists". Well maybe there's something I'm missing here, since I don't know of too many "civilian humanists" who use clubs, bat, knives, shock grenades and iron chains in an attempt to lynch a soldier who seeks to avoid contact with them, and armed merely with paint gun. I also don't know of too many "civilian humanists" who chant "We will slaughter you Jews like Muhammad did". I also don't know of too many "civilian humanists" who specifically express their will to die as "shahids" (martyrs) in a Jihad war against Israel, as exposed in the Turkish media today. How can anyone with a healthy mind, most certainly a university professor - call such people "civilian humanists", without bursting in wild laughter? Or perhaps I'm simply not up-to-date with the new-world-order, neo-liberal, radical-leftist/anarchist terminology. Violent hooligan = "civilian humanist", inspecting cargo for weapons = "piracy", protecting oneself from certain death by a lynch mob = "massacre", etc, etc. Uppsala U, save me a place at his class, will you? I really want to learn what else this fascinating nutty professor teaches...
20:53 June 3, 2010 by Henckel
@ flintis: There's a difference between "Smarts" (i.e., knowledge) and intelligence. One can be superbly smart and yet make incredibly unintelligent decisions. Look at Barack Obama's inept handling of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, for instance.
20:55 June 3, 2010 by pintoflex
premeditated provocation = 'premeditated murder'

what a buffoon
20:56 June 3, 2010 by millionmileman
Mattias Gardell is absolutely right, it was premeditated, but with one big caveat. It was the so-called agenda driven peace activists, the Hamas leadership, the IHH Turkish influenced charity, which is a terrorist front, funded by the Saudis.

There was a premeditated set-up, by "The Ship of Fools." The whole world can see with it's eyes, this press-lynching by the "Alice in Wonderland" press. The trouble with most people is that they have no concept of what Israel has to put up with on a daily basis. This returning to 1967 borders is as absurd as Uddevalla being returned to Norway. Have you forgotten how just a few years ago Israel gave back Gaza (including the thriving greenhouse horticulture, which was totally trashed) and all she got in return were thousands of rockets fired at her.

This 10,000 ton supply ploy is a drop in bucket anyway, because 15,000 tons of supplies are entering Gaza each week. If Israel did not exist (the anti-Semites dream) then the rest of you will be next. Then you will need armed guards for your nuclear plants (see the story below).
21:00 June 3, 2010 by coot

"They were on international waters and were attacked. What Israel did was illegal, period. "

I'm glad you agree that it would have been ok if it happened a few kilometers closer to shore. Maybe next time, they will wait another hour or two.

The organizers announced well in advance that they intended to run the blockade. Why exactly is anybody surprised that the Israeli military intercepted them?
21:03 June 3, 2010 by pintoflex
does this guy feel somewhat responsible for the lives lost?

nah. he feels like the man of the hour
21:50 June 3, 2010 by wolfbay
Hamas is a muslim fundamentalist group with the goal of destroying Israel. It may very well succeed.The original Swedes raised in a western culture will become Dhimmi and Sharia law will eventually be adopted.When swedes recognize what is happening it'll be to late. I won't revel in the negative emotion of revenge but I will be sad.I'm glad I visited a number of times in the past but I don't want to witness the Malmo-Ization of the rest of the country now in progress.
22:29 June 3, 2010 by ajs42548
I find the Swedes(that support the Palestinians) to be so naive as to be considered dolts. How many of you would walk through Malmo wearing a cross unescorted? Yeah, I didn't think you would.
22:38 June 3, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
"A careful study of anti-Semitism prejudice and accusations might be of great value to many Jews, who do not adequately realize the irritations they inflict."
22:57 June 3, 2010 by Texrusso
"A Norwagian ship delivering aid to Ethiopia was attacked in international waters by Somali pirates.

The Somali pirates stormed the ship gunning down many of the aid workers killing tens of civilians and wounding many more. A Somali spokesman said the Somalians were defending themselves against pre-meditated Norwagian violence from sticks, bars and knives. They said the Somalian fighters have towed the ship into a Somali port and will deliver the aid to Ethiopia themselves after sorting what is allowed and what isn't.

The Norwagians on board the ship have been taken illegally from International waters by the Somalian pirates to Somalia and will only be allowed to leave after signing a document confirming that they entered illegally and accept being deported.

William Hague the Foreign Minister for UK has expressed 'concern', and the US president Barak Obama says he 'regrets' the loss of life." Can anyone else see what is wrong with this picture?
23:08 June 3, 2010 by mjennin2
You know, I'm really beginning to wonder if the flotilla activists framed Israel. It has already been proven by written letters to family from some activists, that many were prepared for the notion of being martyred. I wonder how many of them actually intended to martyr themselves at the expense of a publicity catastrophe on Israel.

Body armour was found, perhaps to save the activists who were NOT in the plan to be killed. The ones who DID plan on martyring themselves, all piled onto the same ship, armed themselves with pipes and axes and provoked Israel to attack. Flushing the flotilla with famous "thinkers" etc would back the claim that the flotilla was peaceful not to mention render credibility to the "first hand accounts" shared like the one this chump is spouting off, when really the whole idea was to frame Israel and turn the world against it.

And if that is the case, how devastatingly brilliant. Evil, wicked, and hopefully the truth will come out one day, but to frame Israel this way was an ingeniously crippling war tactic to use against the nation.
23:18 June 3, 2010 by Texrusso
@mjennin2: you and your cohorts really think we still live in the dark ages, with all the mubojumbo you write here, you really think we can't read through your c-rap. You are making your self sound stu-pid, unreasonable and like a f-ool unless you smoking something weird. Honesty is the best form of modality, everyone understands honesty when they read one even a new born baby do. This is the digital Information age... Take my advice and grow up kid!!!
23:27 June 3, 2010 by Carbarrister
Organizer: ship deaths 'premeditated murder'

I am no lover of Israel but it seems like Gardell is the one guilty of premeditated murder by running a boat load of amateur "activists" and Turkish martyrs into the teeth of a well known Naval Blocade.
23:42 June 3, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Non-sense accusation.

"The brains behind the expedition" is talking through his hat, imagining what he claims, "that the Israelis knew the ships' cargo was harmless". What else to expect from the all-knowing professor??

Commonsense: Let us take a look at the facts: There is a BLOCKADE - and the Israeli authorities have made their intentions clear: the blockade is going to be maintained against possible Nazi Hitlerites and not going to be broken no matter how saintly they may claim to be.

That any ship that intends to offload in Gaza, will not be allowed to do so, as that would endanger Israel's security. (I met the mayor of Gaza at the Institute of International Affairs at Gamla Stan in 1987. He shed not blood but real tears and beseeched the Swedish Government to build them a harbour, so that Gazans could export their tomatoes)

You could assert without any contradiction from me: the ships' cargoes (whatever ships and from wherever) must first be inspected to ascertain that there are no weapons and no materials hidden in the cargo - materials that could be used to advance Terrorist Hamas' Military capability to carry on with their well known terrorist activities.

The whole world knows that it is reasonable demands that Israel makes (and so would you): Those who think that the Iran-supported terrorist Hamas wants to make peace with Israel had better read this again and tell us whether Hamas wants peace, now or any time in the future:


As for those who may not have understood the seriousness of what they read, I recommend Y. Harkabi's "The Palestinian Covenant and its Meaning"


The so called peace people on the Flotilla, hell-bent on navigating to Gaza no matter what the Israeli navy was saying about escorting their ships to Ashdod for inspection, decided to disregard the demands and even the warnings of Little Israel ( if it were a USA embargo they would not sail to California in the same way - and forgetting that " discretion is the better part of wisdom" thought that they would sail past the Israeli Navy as if that navy did not exist, dock their boats at whatever Gaza can boast as a harbour and to hell with Israel inspecting the cargo or any future cargoes for weapons.

Of course that would not be their attitude to a Russian or Chinese or Iranian or North Korean or a Swedish embargo - no inspections - in which case they would only have themselves to blame when their ass got shot to pieces, perhaps not by the really peaceful Swedes, but most certainly by the Russians, the Chinese, the North Koreans, and of course the Americans who are currently still busy kicking ass in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and they will most certainly soon be kicking ass in Iran whether Obama wants a second term or not.
23:43 June 3, 2010 by Texrusso
@Carbarrister: "Well known Naval Blockade" who gave your Isreal the right to blockade the territorial shores of an independent Sovereign Palestinean state? Yes your Isreal is able to do it with the full support of the US and UK otherwise one tiny Icelandic army and Navy can paralize all of your Isreali force scum. I wasn't even aware they were sailing, I could have joined the activist. Next time, I encourage the activist to use FACEBOOK for recruitment so there will be many more people to kick ass-es.
23:49 June 3, 2010 by Hagrid

Other than badmouthing mjennin with hollow slogans, can you give solid proof and analytical arguments (in the same fashion he did) to support your claim that his observations are indeed "crap"?

No? I thought so... Of course, empty slogans and curse words are much easier to bring, than a solid and convincing proof. He who curses the most, does so because he has no other effective arguments.
23:58 June 3, 2010 by Texrusso
@Hagrid, am not here to be educated on Isreal and Palestinean conflict. I have read and seen enough of those, I can pour out ten of thousands of references. Like I told you and your cohorts earlier this is the information age. Try www.google.com. I am just disgusted that this page and article has been taken over by Isreali mosads and propaganda, there is no objectivity nor single honesty in the argument I see here, so why waste my time trying to present facts to a bunch of M-osads who are here to manipulate the truth in favour of Zionist. Enough said! For your information, I was born and bred a christhian, am just feedup with your non-sense and I can only say shame on those who see truth but look the other way. Have a good day there!
00:01 June 4, 2010 by Roger O. Thornhill
On what planet does this guy live? Is he unaware that everthing ended up filmed?

This fool has blood on his hands.
00:18 June 4, 2010 by Texrusso

Was Israel right to board the Gaza flotilla?:

00:33 June 4, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
A few kobo questions to Texrusso who asks, "who gave your Isreal the right to blockade the territorial shores of an independent Sovereign Palestinean state?"

Hamas having been stamped " a terrorist organisation", are there any visa requirements for prospective sympathisers to visit Gaza, by sea??

Would the peaceful travellers on board the Flottilla have been permitted to go on shore once their ships arrived on the beaches of Gaza?

Would they be permitted to stay?

It's a sick world:

00:39 June 4, 2010 by Lautreamont
It's a shame that Israel didn't bomb the jihad flotilla. The world would be a better place without those terrorists, including that piece of garbage called Mankell.
00:55 June 4, 2010 by Hagrid
Texrusso @26,if you feel like "there is no objectivity" in this forum, and that the truth is "manipulated in favour of the Zionist", then why don't you go ahead and present arguments for your own truth, and exactly why you believe the other side is wrong? This is how a civilized debate is conducted. Each side presents his own arguments and facts as thoroughly, logically and convincingly as possible, and attempts to debunk the logic of the arguments of the other side.

But when the only arguments you provide are lowly curses and hollow slogans, and nothing solid - then you lose all credibility. In a courtroom, will your case be based on you cursing and badmouthing your adversary - "what he says is crap", "he is stupid", "he must be smoking something weird", or will you bring a more solid evidence? Will you ask the judge to google the information that proves your case, or will you want a good lawyer to articulate and present it nicely it for you? Well, same concept here. Have a great day too.
00:58 June 4, 2010 by JoeSwede
What he meant to say was premeditated sucide! @wolfbay has it right. A professor from Uppsala - is he tenured? What a shame.
01:31 June 4, 2010 by GLO
Watch who supports the Gaza Terrorist's these are the same people that let Europe sink into Hell by standing on the sidelines while Hitler rose to power and then killed 12 m people, When will people see what the goals are... Mr mankell is a out in the open Pro-Terrorist.. Just listen to him...
01:34 June 4, 2010 by ConnieLeePortman
Yeah right "civilian humanists"

Search Youtube

Peaceful activism? Marmara ship "aid" for Gaza


"Peace Activists" Lynch Israeli Soldiers
01:45 June 4, 2010 by MTH

it was imposed by the british over the arabs who lived there in the first place at the end of the otoman empire in WWI

See wikipedia: "The Balfour Declaration encouraged the international Zionist movement to push for a Jewish homeland in the Palestine region, which was the site of the ancient Kingdom of Israel and at the time had a significant Jewish minority population with respect to a majority of Arab-Muslim population".

this is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitioning_of_the_Ottoman_Empire
03:25 June 4, 2010 by anticommie
To bad this swedish fool didnt get 4 bullets in his head!
04:14 June 4, 2010 by waffen
"Upon my sporadic return to this thread, I can"t help but notice the sheer number of people who are resorting to obscenity in an attempt to reinforce their point, some people . . . . have the grace, intellect and politnesse to offer very impacting and thought-provoking points without delving into rudeness. For goodness sake, have some dignity."

The above comment came from a Scot in the newspaper "The Scotsman" and seems to fit this particular blog quite well. His message most likely fell on deaf ears in Scotland, and most likely will meet the same fate here.
04:52 June 4, 2010 by here for the summer
This organizer has now shown himself with these comments to be biased and either crazy or just a liar. How is using objects to attack soldiers non violent ? How is reacting to a violent attack premeditated murder ?
05:09 June 4, 2010 by redcrown
the US blindly backs this jewish state nomatter what it does and knowing this the Israelis do what ever they want,and nothing will change .
06:04 June 4, 2010 by ehwhat?
Comment: Blockades are not illegal. Stopping a vessel in international waters when the stated purpose of the vessel is an illegal act is not illegal. According to maritime law, ships under flag of another nation may be boarded in international waters if there is reason to believe the boarded vessel is involved in: A. A crime that extends to the shore of the country in question B. Smuggling contraband or drugs The organizers of the flotilla specifically stated that they were intending to engage in civil disobedience (ie., an illegal act) to break the blockade by two other countries (e.g., Egypt and Israel) against a third (well, legally only a part of a pseudo third - or has everyone forgotten that Gaza and the West Bank are each only a part of ONE country?). They were asked to provide proof that they were not carrying contraband with the assurance that humanitarian aid would proceed. This was refused. By doing so the flotilla organizers provided sufficient cause for boarding under both A and B. By their own words this was intentional. They wished to have a confrontation. By definition confrontations are often violent. This was acknowledged by some members of the flotilla who apparently stated that they were willing to be martyred. People seem to have very short memories. The French blew up vessels in other people's ports when they planned to engage in civil disobedience. The British boarded, rammed and not infrequently sank vessels that stated they were going to run their blockade. This is not to pick on these two countries, quite a few others have engaged in similar activities The Israelis offered to talk first. How very quaint. I am not a fan of Israel. The Israelis involved were idiots. Their political leadership apparently won its credentials on the back of a packet of crisps. The Turkish activists were looking for a fight. Congratulations. They both succeeded. And as an added dividend Martyrs were produced. Well, that will clearly solve the problem, now won't it? So, how does this stupidity do anything to assist the Palestinian in the street? Hamas keeps the goodies for itself, rewards only its own lackeys and summarily executes dissenters. Most of the people acting on behalf of the Flotilla would be dead if they lived under Hamas authority. Their views and lifestyles are anathema. The PLO is corrupt and incapable of doing anything unless bribed. Their credibility is all but nonexistent. Its always been about the factionalism, greed, and cynical posturing of the "leaders". As long as their is no credible Palestinian counterpart the Israelis cannot be forced to do anything. All they have to do is point at the internal chaos, bloodshed and dissent and shrug. You want to do some real good? Want to screw the Israelis? Lose the boats and force the so called Palestinian leadership to unite. Remove the excuses, stifle the meaningless rhetoric, drop the gun and demand an outcome.
07:41 June 4, 2010 by flintis

You must have been to Gardells history lessons, you're very selective in your era, you'll have to go back a lot longer than that to find Judea & Kingdom of Isreal.

08:20 June 4, 2010 by Deffiz
@ehwhat? (#40)

On the first part of your post:

Thank you for your comments on blockades, I was considering posting something similar, but I think I can instead simply agree with you on that point. At least as near as to make little difference.

By the very nature of a blockade, regardless of legitimacy: if you try to break it, you should expect to be boarded or worse.

On your comment "The Israelis involved were idiots.":

As an outside observer, I'd like to slightly modify that to the effect that idiots seem plentiful and even infectious in matters regarding Israel, Palestine and many middle eastern issues (nor, for that matter, limited to these topics). I'd like to clarify that it seems that these idiots don't show a clear bias for any particular side, except possibly for people removed from actual conflict (I do hope that I haven't been infected myself).

I will not comment (at least for now) on the origin of Israel, or the validity of Israeli or Palestinian claims, as this is possibly the most infectious topic in the world today, as shown by even a brief glance through the posts here.
09:01 June 4, 2010 by flintis

Not really a suitable comparision! This man's on an ego trip, & you are either a student, family or another history teacher.
09:52 June 4, 2010 by bbeynch
I have not heard a peep from Mona af Hägersten in this matter. Is she perhaps afraid of ruffling the feathers of her electorate? Does anyone know where she stands? Does she, or does she not, support Israel's right to defend its sovereignty? Israel is sometimes wrong, the West Bank "settlements" for example. Sabra and Shattilah for another. But in insisting to verify the cargo heading for Hamas, Israel is right. It would be useful if every further commentator started their commentary by indicating if a) Israel has a right to exist, or b) No she should be "wiped off the map" (as Persia's I'm-a-Dinner-Jacket so eloquently puts it). This would crystallize the debate in so much better light.
09:57 June 4, 2010 by Marko2010S
Accusing Israeli leaders and soldiers of 'piracy' or even 'war criminals' is truly a praising for them.

The Israeli leaders and soldiers are freak-animals who enjoy their sick "cannibalism". FULL STOP
10:43 June 4, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Ehwhat's excellent comment would be a little easier to read if he ( she?) could break down the solid chunk of logic into about five paragraphs.

The comment has completely dismantled and demolished Gardell, whose platform is made of water, and his accusation is as false as water.

( an interesting genesis of the phrase " False as water"


Whatever argument Gardell makes standing on his platform of water sinks with him, to the bottom of tha ocean:

The only way that it would have been techinically feasible to break the blockade would have been if Gardell's " peace" flotilla had overwhelmed the Israeli navy and stayed on course, finally arriving in Gaza with the Isreali navy in hot poursuit or with the Isreali navy in tatters and complete disarray.

Gardell, his comrades and the various crews knew that this was an unlikely scenario.

So what did they hope for?

I think that some of them ( the trouble makers in the big ship) at least hoped that with every kind of weapon avialable to them ( including their knives and forks, baseball batons and perhaps with their razor blades if need be, they would resist the Israeli attempt to thwart their intentions.

And that's what they did.

I also think that they hoped that there would be a fracas on board - perhaps some gunfire - at worst a boat or two would be sunk - by confrontation they'd provoke "a sitaution", they'd make the necessary sacrifice and then the world reaction and sympathy would be with them - that if Isreal kicked their ass hard enough, smpthay would be with them, escpecially in the aftermath of that Gaza incusion. AS we can see, some of that hope has been fulfilled, because there is a mentality that always sympathises with the one percieved as the underdog. However in my view in this uneven match between the flotilla and the IDF it is still the IDF that is David and Gardell , Mankell, the Paletinians, the Terrorists & Co who are Goliath

I have no sympathy for the devils.
12:03 June 4, 2010 by alixfas
It is clear that the Israeli soldiers did non-justified thing by killing innocent people, just because they were going to help people that were trapped more than 1.5 year. So we must not distort the truth and make the offender killer a hero, and even make him the victim!!!!!!!!
12:44 June 4, 2010 by jhk
extremes on both side. The threat of terrorism can lead to states suspending conventions normally applied else where, and that has been true in many such conflicts. That does not make it right, but somewhat understandable. The killing of the activists was stupid and unnecessary.

Maybe the pro-isreal lobby here can explain why UN resolutions are not followed, and in the light of that why they would expect support from nations of the UN ?

Whilst the blockade is understandable, the level of the restrictions is not. Its one thing to stop goods to ensure that weapons are not transferred, but do you feel that the level of goods crossing into Gaza is justifiable.

How do you think the best way to a resolution would be. I think many many people support Israel when suffering at terrorism, but also feel that many of Israelis actions lead to a suspension of basic human rights for mass populations. They then support those who fight for better conditions.

If Israel was blockaded in such a manner, would they react militarily (see St Davids Hotel bombing as an example).

How could the aims of the Palestinians be realized peacefully. One suggestion is to follow UN resolutions. If Israel disagrees with them, raise enough support and pass a new one.

If I was Hammas now I would declare a unilateral cease fire of armed conflict. Israel has an excuse to continue with its behavior when threatened. GIve them a year, 2 years, if they don't move towards resolution, ask the world to boycott.

That said I suspect many in Hammas thrive and benefit from the conflict. It provides them with wealth and power, unites a population grateful for any form of organisation.

ask norway to act as arbitrator, or ask the UN for a judgement of who gets what.
12:44 June 4, 2010 by Roy E
Gardell and his companions are nothing more than self-absorbed evil clowns.

But one must wonder who is worse, the Gardell types or the fools that actually buy into his BS.

There's very good reason for Israel and Egypt blocking the flow of weapons into Gaza. Israel pulled out of Gaza as they agreed to do, but the Palestinians turned it into a a rocket launch pad.

It's perfectly clear that Hamas and Hezbollah only want war - nothing else.

The 'humanitarian activists' are either abject liars or abject fools, there's little room for anything else.
13:14 June 4, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
"No nation can expect to survive if it ignores reality and relies instead on its own mythic version of the facts.

That's the... reason Netanyahu's aim is self-defeating.

In trying to save his nation from imagined danger (the foolish notion that ships bringing humanitarian goods to Gaza could threaten Israel's existence, for example) he is exposing Israel to very real dangers.

If the Israelis meet the MV Rachel Corrie with any kind of violence, they take another big step toward alienating their nation from the rest of the world, and especially from the European community, which is of critical importance to Israel. The Israelis are acutely aware that the Corrie is an Irish ship, and the head of Ireland's government has warned them of "the most serious consequences" if any harm comes Irish citizens.

On the other hand, if Netanyahu allows the Corrie to dock at Gaza unimpeded, he can expect a stormy reaction and very possibly rejection from Israel's powerful political right. They'll say that he's weak and shameful, because he lets Israel be pushed around by the gentiles. That charge could stick and move the nation much closer to political chaos.

Either choice will make it harder for Israel to gain the one thing it needs most to escape from danger: a peace settlement with Palestine. As long as there is no settlement, Israel remains caught in a cycle of conflict and insecurity that makes the Jewish state its own worst enemy." -- Ira Chernus
13:31 June 4, 2010 by dew_pansy
I salute the people of flotille. they are Heroes of the world and also of Sweden.Most intellectual people.
13:38 June 4, 2010 by l1gur
What ehwhat? said. I find it difficult to understand the whining about "international waters" is if it means something when you are attempting to run a blockade set in war conditions (Israel being at war with the terrorist organization and ruling faction in Gaza, Hamas). I'll re-post:

"Blockades are not illegal. Stopping a vessel in international waters when the stated purpose of the vessel is an illegal act is not illegal. According to MARITIME LAW, ships under flag of another nation may be boarded in international waters if there is reason to believe the boarded vessel is involved in:

A. A crime that extends to the shore of the country in question

B. Smuggling contraband or drugs

The organizers of the flotilla specifically stated that they were intending to engage in civil disobedience (ie., an illegal act) to break the blockade by two other countries (e.g., Egypt and Israel) against a third (well, legally only a part of a pseudo third - or has everyone forgotten that Gaza and the West Bank are each only a part of ONE country?).

They were asked to provide proof that they were not carrying contraband with the assurance that humanitarian aid would proceed. This was refused. By doing so the flotilla organizers provided sufficient cause for boarding under both A and B.

By their own words this was intentional. They wished to have a confrontation."

There it is. International and maritime law states that in blockade conditions, any ships, be they civilian or that of the enemy, which attempt to purposefully run the blockade may be attacked or boarded in international waters.

Comparisons to Somali pirates are completely off the mark. There is no naval blockade in Somalia. Somali pirates are not a state that is at war with anyone. The ships they target for piracy are not trying to reach Somalia in the purpose of smuggling contraband or violating Somali laws. They are trade vessels that try to get past Somalia.

This Mattias Gardell is an evil, egotistical fool with a "cause" which enables him to sit on a high horse and look down on others.
13:57 June 4, 2010 by here for the summer
I am disappointed that a person such as Gardell with his lies and distortions can be a professor. I would not want my kids being taught by him. Maybe Lund has better sense. I am also disappointed at the racist anti jewish lies posted here.

It's clear from the reports that the peaceful protestors attacked the troops with knives on one ship responded with live amo . Lesson don't go on a boat with this guy don't bring jihadists to a peaceful protest ..
14:51 June 4, 2010 by samwise
first of all I blame Bush, I was told he is the root cause of all bad things.

seriously, I blame the israel government, at this late stage of the game, they still don't seem to have a clue about what propagandists can do, the jews are supposed to be smart, I don't see any smartness on that front.

only God knows how they survived all these years. if that is not a miracle, I don't know what is.
14:51 June 4, 2010 by Kronaboy
TERRORIST ISRAEL: http://bigbrassblog.com/media/6/20090117-infantvictimGazaJan09wikipedia.jpg

I have heard a number of people mention they wish to boycott unethical companies, may I suggest Com-Hem which is now unfortunately a part of the Carlyle group.

Peace to every one and I hope you all remember to have a wonderful weekend with your children:

17:23 June 4, 2010 by mjennin2
Holy crap that was a good post, ehwhat!! I'm with you on that 100%.
00:52 June 5, 2010 by Essjay
I have been on this post for nearly a year and a half and recognize most of the member,s names ,looks like half of Israel has dropped in as members ,well they are probably trying to steal the secrets of the the new weapon ,the personal shaver ,the bic ,the smooth double shaver , the preferred weapon of international terrorists ,the disposable razor ,guess they will steal it like the nuclear secrets of USA and GB ,which naturally were provided to them by cooperating and liberated nazi scientists ,using Jewish prisoners for radiation experiments ,how low can you go

And the Nazi looked at the Zionist and the Zionist looked at the Nazi.........
11:57 June 5, 2010 by Kronaboy


Reports have just arrived MV Rachel Corrie has been illegally boarded by IDF fascists, may I invite all my brothers to recite a short prayer for our Martyred Sister Rachel Corrie and the 111 children poisoned while gold mining in Nigeria.

00:25 June 6, 2010 by Sam Le Bon
@ Essjay : "looks like half of Israel has dropped in as members...!! LOL! wise commentators haven't disappeared yet.. ;o)
00:59 June 6, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Monsieur le Bon,

You're quite right that the anti-terrorist crowd is in place and crowing for Israel right here.

Here's a serious piece of newz about legality and that ship :

06:52 June 6, 2010 by jnightingale
Regarding the Blockade of Gaza.

I would encourage that the European activists that want to bring peace to the Gaza/Israeli border should take a six month vacation in the cities of Sderot and surrounding farming communities. Having them there will clearly demonstrate to the activists how difficult or easy is to live in that part of the world. If rockets continue coming in, the activists will have first hand experience on how difficult life can be for Israeli civilians. If the rocket stop being fired from Gaza, for fear that it might kill or harm activists, then the Peace process might begin to gel.

Any volunteers..???

Jed Nightingale

08:41 June 6, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Dear Jed, (#62)

I would IF do it you would be prepared to do something similar and take a a six month vacation in Gaza?

Would you do it? If not why not?

I think a 6 month holiday in Sderot would be luxury in comparison to one in Gaza for the same period. What do YOU think?

And another thing, are you aware of the history behind Sderot?

Read what wiki has to say:

"Sderot was founded in 1951... on the land of the former Palestinian village of Najd. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by Jewish soldiers from the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak. The inhabitants were EXPELLED and fled to Gaza, and the village was then completely destroyed and levelled to the ground. In 1951, the town of Sderot was built over the village lands."

Land theft and ethnic cleansing. Now, ask yourself how you would feel if that happened to you and your family?

The problem is as I see it that so many decent people have been deceived.

"By way of deception, shall you wage war," Do you know which organisation according to its own ex-members allegedly had that as its former motto?

I.e. we have been fed propaganda lies and myths for so long. We ALL have to do some more discriminating research if we really want to get to the bottom of this problem.

"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth, they either cease being mistaken or they cease being honest"
15:27 June 6, 2010 by reckoning
Mattias Gardell obviously has a premeditated Hate Israel position on all things related to Palestinian Israeli relations.

The truth is that Mr Gardel, the revisionist History Professor, is himself guilty of promoting a suicide mission for the flotilla participants. Note that none of the other ships reacted to Israeli Coast Guard inspections with steel pipes and clubs or hammers. I wonder if Gardell has ever been hit in the head with a steel pipe or a large hammer? What kind of idiot would call that attack peaceful?
15:50 June 6, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
I've been told this more than a hundred times, even last night:

”Go and live in Gaza for a few weeks under the same conditions that Palestinians live under and I am quite sure you would feel a bit differently” .

Of course I could. I have friends from Gaza and Hamas and from the so called “West Bank” known to us as Judea and Samaria. I also have friends in Hezbollah. I understand them.

In June 1991 – after four months in Egypt (Alexandria, Cairo, University of Cairo, al- Azhar etc) I was finally on my way to Gaza, through the Rafah crossing - it was all planned – I had a few names and addresses to visit but at the last minute when I rehearsed with my tutor, who asked me “And what are you going to tell the border guards when they ask you, “What is the purpose of your visit?”,

I answered, “I will tell them that the Messiah is here and I have come to liberate my oppressed Palestinian brothers and sisters and to resurrect the Holy Temple in Jerusalem!”

I was joking of course, but my Jewish Californian brother who had been teaching English to Bedouin Arabs in the Negev was so angry!!!

On the following morning my notebook and diary was gone and so was he, from our hotel, he had disappeared as mysteriously as he had first appeared at breakfast in our hotel in Alexandria.and that was the end of that….

Yes mysticbumwipe, I agree with you “the IDF commandos are NOT cops.” - it was only an analogy – you know that when they board the ship that you may be travelling on in the near future, with the intention of breaking the blockade – they then have the power and authority of a cop - I know that at this point you are mentally now screaming BUT NOT IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS!!! Ok well what about when you are 61 miles from the coast of Gaza – are you going to change course or have your direction changed for you? Or do you then decide to start another chapter of “Gunfight at the OK Coral “: mysticbumwipe vs. IDF Commando

You know the song:

Freedom came my way one day

And I started out of town, yeah!

All of a sudden I saw sheriff John Brown

Aiming to shoot me down,

So I shot - I shot - I shot him down and I say:

If I am guilty I will pay.

Reflexes had got the better of me

And what is to be must be:

Every day the bucket a-go a well,

One day the bottom a-go drop out,

One day the bottom a-go drop out.

The way I see it, there could be a “Gaza first” solution…. It's just that it seems that Egypt would not like to annex Gaza, would not like to have Palestinians on their hands……

Perhaps, something for you if not this


Then this?

23:08 June 18, 2010 by etabori
Mattias Gardel is a 'useful idiot" used by a terror organization (IHH) in support of another terror organization- HAMAS. There were 40 armed thugs on board while he the fully grown fool was at the lower deck and saw nothing yet he dares to present a hearsay caslumny as if he were can eyewitnaess.

See the video:


Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan stood behind the IHH - the terror organization that was behind the violence on the Mavi Marmara at the end of last month. But in general, the media has been behaving as if Erdogan´s support for the IHH and his government´s anti-Jewish attitudes are ´only´ anti-Israel or are new. For Erdogan, Israel-bashing is a way of bolstering his status with Islamic and Middle Eastern states, which Turkey would like to lead, and against the Turkish opposition.


Israel is our first line of defence in a turbulent region that is constantly at risk of descending into chaos; a region vital to our energy security owing to our overdependence on Middle Eastern oil; a region that forms the front line in the fight against extremism. If Israel goes down, we all go down
23:26 June 18, 2010 by etabori
Listen to the so called activists declaring their in tentions in their own words:

23:30 June 18, 2010 by etabori
Statements made by IDF soldiers, pictures taken aboard the Mavi Marmara,

statements from passengers, information found in files on laptops seized from the ship and

statements made by passengers to the media after their release, all prove that the

violence employed against the IDF on board the ship was not spontaneous but

rather a premeditated operation. The operation was organized beforehand by IHH

and implemented by a hard core of 40 violent operatives who were taken on board

specifically for the purpose. This bulletin provides an updated picture based on recently

acquired information.

2. The hard core of 40 IHH operatives boarded the ship in Istanbul. They remained on the

upper deck while the other passengers (of whom there were about 500 on board) received

orders to remain below decks (The IHH leader ordered “Turks, upper deck, Arabs, below


3. The 40 IHH operatives joined the ship in Istanbul without a security check. Most of

them wore stickers reading “Security Protection” (khares amni). They also prepared in

advance designated equipment and cold weapons for a possible IDF takeover of the boat (for

example, they brought metal cutting disks to cut the ship's railings). The IHH operatives were

commanded by organization's leader, Bülent Yildirim, who organized the fighters, briefed

them before the confrontation with the IDF forces and instructed them to use violence.

The media reported that some operatives specifically stated that they wanted or were willing

to die as martyrs (shaheeds).

4. According to the minutes of a meeting of the flotilla leadership which took place

on May 16, in which IHH played a major role, the possible scenarios in which the flotilla

passengers participated did not include a violent confrontation with the IDF (an

analysis of the minutes will be published separately). Moreover, other organizations

participating in the flotilla, such as Free Gaza, had their activists sign pledges that

they would not engage in physical or verbal violence against IDF soldiers. All of

the above create the impression that IHH fooled some of the other organizations,

hiding its true intentions to employ severe violence.
23:33 June 18, 2010 by etabori
Would Erdogan let a fleet of boats carryin aid to the Kurds ( only a 100 were killed yesterday) reach Turkish shores without being impeded by his Navy?
23:37 June 18, 2010 by etabori
They wanted to be Martyrs ( Killed for Allah) listen to their own declarations. This was a violent provocation by Muslim Jihadists using stupid naive Europeans as a cover:

06:21 June 19, 2010 by etabori
Who paid the air tickets for him and the other Swedces to go to Istanbul and back to Sweden. Did Upsalla university pay his salary while he was engaging in supporting terrorists and Jihadists.Extraneous activities. Did he take a leave?
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