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Swedish judiciary 'independent': Reinfeldt

AFP/The Local · 9 Feb 2011, 07:22

Published: 08 Feb 2011 16:29 GMT+01:00
Updated: 09 Feb 2011 07:22 GMT+01:00

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"It is unfortunate. We have an independent judiciary," Reinfeldt told reporters at parliament.

On the first day of a hearing in London Monday on whether Assange can be extradited to Sweden to face allegations of rape and molestation, his lawyer Geoffrey Robertson blasted the Swedish handling of rape cases, saying his client's human rights would be violated in the Scandinavian country.

"The Swedish custom and practice of throwing the press and public out of court when rape trials begin is one that we say is blatantly unfair, not only by British standards but also by European standards," Robertson said.

Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny wants to question Assange over allegations he raped one woman and sexually molested another in the country -- moves which he claims are politically motivated because of WikiLeaks' activities in releasing classified US cables.

Reinfeldt said Tuesday "it is unfortunate that women's rights and standpoint is taken so lightly when it comes to this kind of question compared to other types of theories presented."

"I can only defend what everyone in Sweden already knows: that we have an independent, non-coerced judiciary," he was quoted by the TT news agency as saying.

Reinfeldt rejected the notion that Assange's human rights would be violated in a Swedish rape trial.

"Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing you hear when (a lawyer) trying to defend a client gives a condescending description of other country's legal systems," he said.

"But everyone living in Sweden knows that is not in line with the truth."

"Let's not forget what is at stake here: It is women's right to get a hearing on whether they have been the victims of abuse," Reinfeldt said.

"I find if very regrettable that (Assange's defence team) in this way is trying to... make their rights appear worth very little," he added, hailing the fact that "in Sweden we have come far when it comes to clearly showing we will not accept sexual assault or rape."

Attorney Robertson has also argued that Assange risks being extradited on from Sweden to the United States on separate charges relating to the whistleblower website and could face the death penalty there.

He has also said the extradition request was unacceptable because Assange

has not yet been charged with any crime.

The alleged victims' lawyer, Claes Borgström, said he understood "it is in Assange's interest to try to divert attention from what he is actually suspected of," but stressed to AFP that "it is completely out of the question that he would not receive a fair trial in Sweden."

Borgström said claims that the case against Assange was politically motivated were "ridiculous".

Story continues below…

"Is there no limit to what they will say?" he asked, also rejecting the notion that Sweden has exceedingly strict laws for rape and sexual assault.

"The laws look about the same across the EU, and British law actually goes a little further than Swedish law," he said.

Sweden's top prosecutor Anders Perklev also jumped into the fray to counter harsh criticism at the hearing of prosecutor Ny for her handling of the case.

"Marianne Ny has acted in complete accordance with her role as public prosecutor and she of course has the authorisation needed to make the decisions made in this case," he said in a statement.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

17:02 February 8, 2011 by UScitizen
And the beat goes on..........
17:19 February 8, 2011 by Rishonim
I live in Sweden and I think the legal system is a sham.
17:34 February 8, 2011 by procrustes
I grant that Reinfeldt's characterization of the independence of the Swedish justice system is broadly accurate--accurate, but not correct. This case reveals a justice system rife with political agenda of its prosecutors. Perhaps the system needs to more tightly limit the latitude of its prosecutors.
17:39 February 8, 2011 by Nilspet
Lets say 9 million people in Sweden believe Reinfeldt's statements but 500 million people out there believe JA and his legal team. Any idea?
17:53 February 8, 2011 by Nomark

Yep - I have a good idea. The 500 million (and where did that number come from btw ?) are prejudiced to support JA and will interpret any evidence in the most JA-favourable light. They do, however, keep on changing their mind. At first it was all CIA, then it was feminism, now they've managed to combine the two into feminism+US/extradition consensus.

It all kind of makes you want a system in which someone accused of something has certain rights, eg to be interviewed with solicitor present and, should it come to trial, to have evidence dispassionately assessed against a written set of laws and the right of appeal. I believe this is called a justice system and, despite its flaws, is a whole better than relying on web fora to make a judgement. The justice system is also good because it protects those who have made allegations. The internet fora tend to think this is a bit lame - after all one of JA's accusers *must* be lying and therefore she's been subjected to all manner of hate mail, had sh*t spread about her (on this forum amongst many others), and is now called "the most hated woman in the internet". Nice..

At the very least, with a justice system, we're not reliant on a whole load of non-experts pretending they know everything from (a) what went on with JA and the women (b) extradition prospects from Sweden or the UK to the US etc. etc.
18:05 February 8, 2011 by Jimmy
I have been in court here, had a judge say he knows the opposition is lying, and yet ruled in HER favour.

I have had social support me and say the mother was untrustworthy, and the courts ruled HER favour.

I have proved in the court that she was lying, and you know again.

I gave the prosecutor the court video, her letters to other courts, on advice of my lawyer as SHE perjured herself. To be told NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE. A court video, 5 judges and 2 lawyers witnessed it, and still not enough evidence.

Wake up if you are not Swedish you ain't got much of a chance
18:13 February 8, 2011 by Nilspet
@ Nomark

I got the number from some news article about how many people out there access webs like WL as such. The number is not directly a number of visitors of WL directly but many news agencies publish WL documents so in total there may be more than 500 million that are in favor of this whistle blower than the Swedish team. Hundred of headlines yesterday sounded much like "Swedes are the bad guys and JA and his team are the good ones". I think that is bad enough for Sweden. Check this out on SVD


To be honest to you I want Sweden to come out as a winner of this case BUT in a transparent manner. So far it has not been transparent.
18:34 February 8, 2011 by dammen
Jimmy - I sympathize - I have similar experiences of the Swedish judicial system -

Sweden doesn't have a judicial system - it works in favor of those who are criminal - in which case if Assange were guilty - he would win anyway

If Assange is innocent he won't be able to prove it as it doesn't matter how much evidence you have, if the system has already decided then you may as well throw the evidence in the bin.
18:53 February 8, 2011 by Toonie

Yep - I have a good idea. The 500 million (and where did that number come from btw ?) are prejudiced to support JA and will interpret any evidence in the most JA-favourable light. They do, however, keep on changing their mind. At first it was all CIA, then it was feminism, now they've managed to combine the two into feminism+US/extradition consensus.

Not really, Nilspet. The 500 million or so are now beginning to learn about the Geijer Affair and other cases, which nicely illustrate just how much Swedish power elites care for women's rights in Sweden when it becomes inconvenient to their own positions.

This case is also highlighting the scandalous misuse of the European Arrest Warrant by just about every country in the EU: partial, capricious, politically motivated, trivial... the list is long. Fortunately, the Assange case has led EU legal instances to review the use of the EAW. If it happens that will be one improvement prompted by this case.

I agree that there have been too many conspiracy theories bandied about, but the Swedish legal system (or rather the specific use of it by certain individuals in this case) has been rightly placed under the microscope.
19:05 February 8, 2011 by countrysidedrive
Every one in Sweden knows that the criminals are given a very lenient sentence. And that all those convicted of a crime are given very lenient penalties. I would suggest that this is turning into a big deal because Julian did something inappropriate and is embarrassed by his actions that have been made public. Guilty of a crime probably not. Guilty of being a dick, probably.
19:57 February 8, 2011 by diegoveggie
it's not julian's fault that swedish girls are cute and easy)
20:01 February 8, 2011 by byke
Shame on Reinfeldt.

While I understand international criticism and condemnation of abuse of human rights is hard not to take personally ..... his comments clearly highlight the oposite of what he claims to be true.
20:14 February 8, 2011 by Juan Harry Bush

Another AirWaster.

He should've left with Sahlin.

Hey, We can't have it all : )
20:20 February 8, 2011 by Nomark
Every legal system is criticised in every country, sometimes justified, and sometimes not. Sticking up Sweden's in isolation is just plain daft. Having grown up in the UK I've witnessed a number of serious miscarriages of justice which makes it all the more ridiculous that some try to maintain that the "UK is somehow better" and that he's going to Sweden to be extradited.

The Swedish justice system is to be judged if and when this ever comes to trial. Sweden is well within its rights to issue an arrest warrant for a suspect (who is often difficult to track down despite his protestations that he is available for questioning but only his terms). He is the one refusing to return to Sweden. What is the prosecutor supposed to do ? Just drop it. The publicity associated with "letting someone go because they are famous" could be as bad as "chasing after poor JA". The whole point of the EU arrest warrant system is to try to ensure accountability regardless of where in the EU one is. There are far more serious "abuses" of it than poor JA who is only wanted for questioning.

JA and his lawyers (who seem to speak more cr*p with each utterance - execution, the USA...) are as much to blame for this circus as Ny. It could all have been ended so easily if JA had gone back for questioning like he said he always wanted to do.
20:23 February 8, 2011 by Zala Russe
So. Like Watergate. We now know the conspiracy goes all the way to the top. 'What did he (Reinfeldt) know and when did he know it?' This has to be unprecedented. The unwelcome political intervention of the Swedish Prime Minister, no less, in a pathetic legal case, abusing human rights, based on total misuse of EAW on a 'wanted for questioning' vs. 'escaped convictee' notion, that is still 'sub judice' in England. So, like no attempt to influence the decision of the judge then? It begs the question of what all these high-fliers in the Swedish system are so damned scared of, that they are prepared to risk their reputations to ridicule? Who is jerking their strings?
20:25 February 8, 2011 by Nilspet
@ Nomark

It is clear that JA could be questioned in UK and already before the arrest warrant was issued. So the process abuse took place right? We have examples where Swedish authorities traveled to other states to question, interview, interrogate suspects. One being the helicopter robbery in 2009. Swedish cops were allowed to go to Serbia to find out more truths. UK would surely allow Ny to be in UK questioning JA.

Process abuse = ?
20:44 February 8, 2011 by skatty
To tell the true, I have never heard authorities in any country, even the most horrible, dictatorial, tyranny one to say that they don't have "an independent, non-coerced judiciary".

All authorities have "an independent, non-coerced judiciary" on this planet, depends on how the authorities interpret justice!
20:50 February 8, 2011 by Ivan Juric
How can it be independent if it is run by man hating feminists and those who pander to them?
20:55 February 8, 2011 by Zala Russe
To give a balanced view, I really do think he should be extradited on a charge of having crap taste in women.

Witness I: 'How come he sent me flowers the next day if he didn't have a guilty conscience?

Defence Counsel: 'It wasn't flowers, it was a wreath. He thought you were dead.'
21:07 February 8, 2011 by Nomark

Serbia isn't in the EU, the UK is and there is an EU arrest warrant system which can be used. A suspect should be interviewed according to the standard rules of a judiciary.

A question for you - what is so special about him ? Why can't he return to Sweden ? Why must he have it on *his* terms ? He is a man who has spent his life travelling. Surely he can nip to Sweden and back in a day.
21:13 February 8, 2011 by ChomskyReader
"Reinfeldt said Tuesday "it is unfortunate that women's rights and standpoint is taken so lightly when it comes to this kind of question compared to other types of theories presented."

That is rubbish, a girl of 13 wad raped by a 16 year old the case was recently thrown out of court because the girl did not say no, so it was considered consenual.

"I can only defend what everyone in Sweden already knows: that we have an independent, non-coerced judiciary," he was quoted by the TT news agency as saying."

Again more rubbish, do you guys not remember the case with the guys from Piratebay? The two judges that had ruled in favour of imprisonment were both staunch supports and worked withing organisations that wanted to ban illegal downloading, yet after a investigation the Swedish authorities said that the judges decision to send the Piratebay group to prison was not biased!
21:33 February 8, 2011 by spy

And a question for you: What is so special about the prosecutor that means he can't conduct a video link interview with Assange or even get on a plane to the UK?? Both have been suggested.

And I am not sure why you are criticising Assange for wanting everything 'on his terms' - he is defending himself after all..... I don't blame the fellow for not wanting to set foot in Sweden, anyone with any sense knows hat 'Swedish justice' is at best inconsistent and at worst an oxymoron.
22:26 February 8, 2011 by Nilspet

That Sweden and UK are members of EU make it even easier to have a VDO link between the two states. It happened that governments within the EU used VDO links to communicate on various matters with one another and it has been like this for a long time.

To the best of my knowlege JA has the right to be anywhere in the world he wants to be (as long as the territory he sets foot in gives him permission. He could well be in Russia, Korea, Cuba or back in Australia...). That we humans can travel freely is the MOST basic human right for every human being. Now you wonder why he did not agree to travel to Sweden to be questioned by prosecutor Ny? He did not have to if he does not want to. It could be that he felt threatened and that UK did not push him out directly showed that they at least wanted to give him some kind of basic human rights. If he went to e.g. Norway they could have sent him back to Sweden without any hearing. Even if he was already pronounced guilty by the Swedish justice system he still has his rights to fight extradition if he fears for his life and that that his human rights would be violated here. He like any other human being has to right to defend himself against any allegations by any state.

Don't you know that Sweden has granted refugee status, permanent residency or even citizenships to many people found guilty in their country of origin. They did so because they realized that human rights of those people could be violated if they were sent back. Many countries want their criminals back to be prosecuted but Sweden refused because it consider those allegations not crimes according to the Swedish law. Let's wait and see how the UK justice system functions in this very case ... this saga must end somewhere right? Would you be happy to see JA behind bars in Sweden? What are your thoughts?
22:52 February 8, 2011 by procrustes
@Nilspet and @ arbed12: Do not feed the trolls!
23:08 February 8, 2011 by sgt_doom
@ arbed12, thanks for you continuing intelligent commentary.

Quite a few people say Wikileaks hasn't accomplished anything, so let's take a moment to review.

Excepting, everything it has instigated, long in the making, from Scandinavia to Spain, from the UK to Greece and throughout North Africa and the Mideast.

When a radio announcer in Tunis read the Wikileaked documents explaining the the thievery and extraordinary wealth of the Tunisian dictator, the people already knew the generalities, but it served as a catalyzing event.

When Wikileaked documents fully explained the consistent collusion between Mubarak and the Israelis against the Palenstinians (their economic warefare, etc.) along with Mubarak's billions of theft from the Egyptian people, people knew this in general, but it served as a catalyzing event.

In Spain, the compromising of the Spanish judicial system by the Obama Administration, in support of the previous Bush Administration, rised the people's hackles considerably.

Whether in Greece, Russia, Sweden or elsewhere, again and again Wikileaked cables from the US State Department has served as catalyzing events.

In Sweden, scandals have been brought to light regarding present and past political figures, and their Foreign Affairs Minister***, Carl Bildt (former president of that country), is adamant that Assange of Wikileaks be extradited to Gothenburg, home to Jeppesen Systems AB (subsidiary of Boeing and an affiliate of extreme rendition airlines, Jeppesen Dataplan, another Boeing sub).

And what do we know of Carl Bildt? That he was a director at Lundin Petroleum during their years of mayhem in Sudan.



Always interesting, and always predictable, the way it always ties together.

***Evidently Sweden, like the USA, likes to recycle their corrupt politicians with Bildt now their equivalent of the US Secretary of State, which we now have the recycled First Lady in charge of. Bildt, interestingly, was also a director at the British MI6 cutout, Hakluyt & Company, which boasts another well known director, one Frank Wisner, Jr.

Yup, it always connects together.....
23:23 February 8, 2011 by mikewhite
"It begs the question of what all these high-fliers in the Swedish system are so damned scared of"

I respectfully refer you to http://begthequestion.info/
23:31 February 8, 2011 by sgt_doom
Oopsy, almost forgot.

It was Carl Bildt who first appointed the now-Justice Minister Beatrice Ask to his cabinet when he was prime minister a few years back.

And it was Minister Ask who pressured the Assange investigation, which had been discontinued due to lack of evidence, to be re-opened and for that Interpol warrant to be issued.
23:36 February 8, 2011 by GLO
ASSangee is a guilty criminal. How many people do you know that are wanted in several country's for different ctimes. What a SLUG.......
01:49 February 9, 2011 by spy

He is innocent until proven guilty you numbskull...
02:11 February 9, 2011 by Nomark

I rather suspect that the authorities prefer face to face interviews on their conditions when interviewing suspects. For example, I've never seen on the Bill

"Ok, let's question the suspected armed robber.

Constable - set up the web cam and call him up on skype.

We'll get to the bottom of this now..."

I asked why JA chooses to fight the extradition because I suspect there is a lot of stupid posturing going on. If the case is thin then there is little chance of it succeeding in court. Ignoring the froth and cr*p from his legal team and we're left with a Swedish justice system which is neither better nor worse than other EU systems. Furthermore, in JA's case he will have the media monitoring the whole thing should it even come to trial (which is a lot more than most foreigners finding themselves in trouble with the law in foreign countries get). Even if he would win the extradition battle this would still leave him exposed to arrest if he tried to travel to another EU country (the arrest warrant still holds even if the UK turn it down). For a nomad, a lot of world is getting blocked off which must hurt. In addition he would always be known by many (rightly or wrongly) as that bloke who ran away from the rape allegations rather than facing them. Its in his own interests to return to Sweden and clear this up now.

Do I want to see him locked up ? I couldn't care less as long as the law is applied fairly.
02:50 February 9, 2011 by Nilspet

I see your point ... I can 100% agree that the law should always be applied fairly. Again I think that the Swedish prosecutors can interview him in UK if he exercises his basic human rights not to travel to Sweden. Ny or any other can surely travel to UK to talk to him face to face if they really want to get the job done ... even at the Swedish Embassy which is a Swedish territory.

Anyway ... don't you think that people who bring up false allegations against others should also be punished by law? I doubt it is possible in Sweden. The Swedish system would not give JA a chance to sue the girls and people who put him in trouble had the UK judges dropped the case.
03:21 February 9, 2011 by Nomark
People who bring false accusations should certainly be prosecuted if it can be proven that they did this. Making false accusations is a crime in Sweden. However, I've seen no evidence that these are false accusations - I've seen lots of tittle tattle and speculation but that really doesn't count and it certainly doesn't justify the treatment the women have received by the internet mob. They have had their identities revealed (those who complain of sexual abuse are allowed anonymity for a good reason) and one of them has been termed "the most hated woman on the internet". This is ugly mobbing. It is perfectly possible that the women either were or believe they were the victims of a sexual assault and went to the police accordingly. Nobody in the mob *knows* otherwise they're simply supporting their hero by throwing mud at his accusers. All events and decisions which followed the complaints are down to the police and prosecuting authorities, not the women. If someone believes they have evidence that the women are not sincere and invented stories then they should file a formal complaint with the police.

Rape is already a vastly underreported problem. The behaviour of the mob in the JA case can act as quite as a deterrent to a woman from coming forward with an accusation against a well known figure with lots of supporters. This is yet another reason why JA should go to Sweden and clear this matter up.
04:34 February 9, 2011 by philster61
Of course one would expect a spineless toad like "Adolph" Rheinfeldt to pass the buck.

(Feminists society) Mr Prime Minister ,please jump

Rheinfeldt: How high?
04:56 February 9, 2011 by rolfkrohna
The problem is not the dependency or independence of the justice system from people like Reinfeldt, the problem is that the system has been infiltrated by activists, some call them terrorists, as Marianne Ny who uses the justice system in collusion with lawyers and law makers as a platform for her own personal agenda and ideological convictions. Sweden need to put barriers in place for such people and make it easy to remove them.
05:49 February 9, 2011 by don willer
P.M Reinfeldt, what else could he say ? Sweden has lost face, comical comments from the P.M don't add anything to the case. Something smells in Denmark, and Sweden as well.
06:59 February 9, 2011 by rugla
I´m Swedish voted for Reifeldt, been to court a number of times due to my work, and can tell you the judicial system is a joke, so Reinfeldt is saving face as he knows the short comings, partiality and corruption going on!

Sad to see us become a puppet to hire powers! The problem with my country man is that we are way to non confrontational and conforming to speak out against it.
08:23 February 9, 2011 by Nemesis
Anyone who thinks that the Sweedish judiciary is independant in practice is nieve to put it mildly.

@ arbed12

Would you have links to your allegations?
09:35 February 9, 2011 by Prat
Reinfeldt's government has been deeply involved in anti-pirating efforts along with the USA government and the RIAA. US government cables (released via Wikileaks & Cablegate) showed little progress in one effort by the US Ambassador pressuring then-Deputy Prime Minister Maud Olofsson for more legislation against illegal file sharing:

The US government cables mention coopting the independence of the Swedish Migration Board:

"...The SMB is bound by law to accept references only from the UNHCR or Swedish embassies, although in "extremely special" cases, the Government could direct the independent SMB to consider a specific request. (Comment: Despite MFA interlocutors telling us in the past that it would be "difficult" to intervene "politically" with the work of the SMB, as in ref B, xxxxxxxxx explicitly noted that possibility. ..."
13:28 February 10, 2011 by Steve911
The fact is that if JA voluntary goes to or is extradited to Sweden, he will immediately be arrested and held in detention on arrival for perhaps over a year in some stinking jail for foreigners. The Swedes already managed to get him locked up in prison in the UK for about 10 days. The main purpose is to deny him access to the internet and the media so it will slow down the release of the Wikileak logs. The legal case the Swedes are purporting to pursue against JA is a sham. Tabloid newspapers love a good sex story, especially when its distracts people from reading the real message about the corruption and illegal activities of our governments exposed by Wikileaks.

Many UK legal experts doubt if Sweden will succeed in get JA extradited for so called questioning. So Sweden should brace itself for heavy court costs and serious international embarrassment. Even, if they get him to Sweden, what then? He will just say, 'you have already questioned me and I have answered your questions, I have nothing further to say. Charge me or let me go. There is no new evidence other than the SMS messages of the 2 women (which you don't let me see), so perhaps you should question the women about them.' The fact that Ms Ny doesn't have the guts to charge JA proves that even she knows that the case against JA is extremely weak. It is unlikely that his so called accusers will give evidence in court against JA because they would lay themselves open to a charge of perjury and in any event one of them is living in Palestine now.

17:36 February 10, 2011 by Rebel
Why is the little bald dude commenting on a legal case (taking issue in public with the defense lawyer)? I have never heard a sitting US president comment on a legal case being argued in court. Maybe this calls into quesiton Reinfeldt's credibility and Sweden's ability to conduct a fiar trial.
22:14 February 11, 2011 by Observant
Sweden has NO fair Judicial System.

If a defendant is convicted he has the right of appeal. YThis must be made in 3 weeks. BUT the Prosecutor has 4 weeks to counter appeal. Some democracy.

If the Prosecutor also appeals in the fourth week then the defendant WILL get a harsher sentence in any Appeal. If the Prosecutor does not make a counter appeal then the defendant's punishmnet could be reducced but 9 out of 10 cases it remains as the lower court determined.

The Supreme Court never takes up cases of a sexual nature. The judges in that court have no idea how to handle sexual cases as their verdicts will be the mockery of the press and television.

So I just hope JA will not be extradited to Sweden as he WILL NOT get any fair trial not now theat the most senior "Statesman" in Sweden - The Prime Minister - has made comments on the case. This case is really showing the world what Sweden is REALLY like. The Prime Minister should grown up, shut up and not involve himself in ongoing Judicial matters. He has ruined any chance of JA being extradited to Sweden

The Swedish System is full of Hitlers and Gestapo methods. One prosecutor first laying the case down and another prosecutor starting it all up again. This in its self shows how the Swedish Judiciary is conducted. One person countermaning another.

Good luck JA just don't trust any Swede in future. I hope that you have learned your lesson about Swedes and Sweden.
01:40 February 12, 2011 by Steve911
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
12:27 February 12, 2011 by Nomark

Can you explain how your post is in anyway compatible with the principles of justice which you're apparently concerned about. Giving the contact details of the two women is utterly shameful, not least since they've been receiving hate mail and abuse. Can I remind you - you've never met them, you don't know what went on and your information is incomplete. Yet still you join in this disgusting mobbing.

Justice is about the dispassionate assessment of the complete evidence base. It also means protection both for those who make allegations and those on the receiving end. If you think there is evidence that they made the whole thing up then go to the police or encourage JA to bring a private action.

Please don't ever write again about failings in the Swedish justice system. You clearly haven't got a clue what justice really means.
13:58 February 12, 2011 by Steve911
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
15:59 February 12, 2011 by Nomark

You were not at the alleged incidents nor do you have access to the complete evidence base and legal opinion. You do *not know* the motivation of the women though you clearly feel otherwise.

Your argument is that you believe that the justice system has failed so you're going to dish out your own bit of justice by publicising the contact details of people who are already subject to hate mail and abuse. This is a garbage excuse for an ignorant hate-filled act against people you don't know. There hasn't been a trial and the questioning isn't even complete. Your hero is as much to blame as Ny for this state of affairs.

Specifically regarding your treatment these women, the justice system will have failed if and only if you have evidence that these women broke the law in some way and that any complaints you have made via the appropriate legal system have failed. So, did you make a formal complaint about the women ? Do you have appropriate evidence about their guilt which would stand up in a court of law ? Or did you think about all of this and did you just feel like joining the internet mob against them ?

The Swedish legal system may be flawed but its a lot better for digging out the truth and punishing wrongdoing than anonymous unaccountable internet posters.
16:44 February 12, 2011 by Steve911

I don't think you understand my point. The women choose to have a public trial / media circus, when they went to Expressen. You are talking like this is just some normal criminal case, this case is anything but normal - normal rules don't apply any more. In UK law we have a legal principle called Equality of Arms, both sides should be on the same footing. JA's address is in the press, so why not the women's? JA has not even been charged so he has a right to the presumption of innocence. JA regularly comes out to defend himself in the media, despite being vilified as a rapist, I'm sure he gets hate mail every day, there's enough of it on the internet. Why don't the women have a press conference to put their side of the story? All the witness statements are on the internet, so people can make their own mind up who to believe.

JA's Swedish lawyer says he saw SMS messages (held by the police) from the women which show they are lying. I would rather believe a member of the Swedish bar than these 2 women. Why aren't the Swedish police taking action? I don't have access to these SMS messages so I cant make a complaint (not that the Swedish police would act on a complaint by a foreigner in another country).

As for a trial, its simple Ms Ny should come to the UK to interview him and save us all a lot of trouble. If Sweden lose the extradition case, it will be all for nothing anyway and there wont be any trial in Sweden. Why risk it, she should take what she is offered and stop being so stubborn.

Do you not accept my last post showing that any justice is completely out of the window now?
16:57 February 12, 2011 by Nomark
Steve - I understand your point and it is an irrelevant one.

It is spiteful, hateful (and cowardly, given your own anonymity) to spread the contact details of people who are already subject to hate mail and abuse. This is true whether or not you *think* they are inventing the whole thing or that the justice system has behaved badly in this case. This is simply another example of the internet mobbing of these women and justice is never served by this type of behaviour.
20:30 February 12, 2011 by Steve911
You should take things less seriously, I was trying to bring in some light humour into this debate. The webpage with their details has been around for months and it wasn't my work. I'm sure anyone with half a brain can find it in 5 minutes. So what's the harm? I hope you don't suggest the good readers of The Local would resort to illegal abuse, I certainly wouldn't support it. Do you know for sure they are getting hate mail and abuse? Most of the hate seems to be heading in JA's direction. Most Swedes seem to be supporting the 2 women.

You seem to treat the 2 women as genuine rape victims, I'm sorry genuine rape victims don't go to Expressen to sell their story. This whole episode has set back the terrible plight of women who have been genuinely raped by years. If anyone is behaving spiteful and hateful its the 2 women behind this whole case, who have damaged the previously good reputation of Sweden.

The general principle, now that Sweden has adopted a more aggressive foreign policy is if you poke someone in the eye, expect to get poked back. Now Sweden has troops in Afghanistan, you now have suicide bombers in your streets for the first time.
20:52 February 12, 2011 by Nomark
The dissemination of contact details for two women who have been subject to abuse/hate mail is pretty shameful and not something to be treated in a light hearted way. The fact you seem to think that otherwise is rather shameful.

I don't give a sh*t if they are genuine or not. The fact is that, however, you don't know. You don't know them, you don't know their motivation for doing anything they've done. You've simply drawn your conclusions on incomplete information. FIne - we all do that. What most of us don't do is join in the mobbing.

I don't treat them as either genuine rape victims or as liars. I treat them as people who have been subjected to a hate campaign by people who don't know half as much as they think they do.
09:15 February 13, 2011 by Steve911
I don't support hate campaigns or mobbing against anyone, its so childish and what's the point? I do support people's contact information to be available so that journalists, or anyone else with a legal reason to speak to them such as the police may call around and ask them some hard questions. I hope Swedish journalist will now have the guts to call around to these addresses and find out what's really going on. You talk about cowardice, if these women really believe they have a case, they should come out into the light and argue their case, I for one am waiting to hear their side of the story and their motivations.
09:52 February 13, 2011 by Nomark

Now you're being really ridiculous. You, Mr Steve ... (sorry don't know your surname, you maintain your anonymity) posted the contact details of women who are subject to hate mails and abuse. You did this as part of an attempt to ridicule them further (i,e. suggest that they are asked out for a Valentines date). You then told me it was nothing serious. Now you tell me you're actually the Local's yellow pages and did it as an information service for journalists and people who might have "questions". You should at least keep what passes for your story consistent.

I'm sure its hard for you to admit but, whatever you *think* these women have done (and its only that, you don't really *know* what went on), nothing condones the hate campaign to which they are being subjected. Passing on the addresses of people are going through a hate campaign is being part of the internet mob and is as much an affront to justice as what you think is being done to poor Julian.

I'm amazed that you write that you don't condone mobbing when this is precisely what you are doing.

Maybe you've spent a bit too long crying about other people's failings in the JA case that you forgot to call into question your own ethics ?
07:12 February 17, 2011 by twcarlisle
I think if Julian were in these United States he could be killed or worse. The Empire is mad at him. He has made them look silly and they can't have that. Tangle with the evil empire and you could disappear as in Chile, Guatemala, Venezuela, Iraq, Nicaragua, etc.
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