• Sweden's news in English

Top Italian official blasts Ikea over gay advert

AFP/The Local · 24 Apr 2011, 09:27

Published: 24 Apr 2011 09:27 GMT+02:00

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit


"I find it serious and in bad taste that a Swedish multinational comes to

Italy to tell Italians what they should think," Secretary of State for family

policy Carlo Giovanardi said in a television interview.

The Swedish furniture giant's advertisement shows two men with a shopping

bag, holding hands, and the words: "We are open to all families".

"I think that many clients of Ikea will not find this pleasant," said


While Ikea was free to address itself to whom it pleases, the term family

as used in the advertisement "is in direct opposition to our constitution

which says that family is founded on a marriage", he added.

Gay rights activist Aurelio Mancuso said Giovanardi's statements were

"dangerous and aggressive and risk fueling the climate of homophobia that

drives violence and insults against gays, lesbians and transsexuals."

Story continues below…

Lawmaker and gay activist Franco Grillini pointed out that: "in the rest of

Europe, they have adopted laws that recognize all forms of family", while

fellow MP Ignazio Marino mocked Giovanardi for "launching a crusade against an advertisement".

Italy does not recognize homosexual marriage or civil union, and has no law

against homophobia.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

Your comments about this article

10:31 April 24, 2011 by byke
Ikea furniture and flat pack .... Homosexuality

There has to be a good joke in there somewhere.
11:15 April 24, 2011 by Arturio
For the first time i think Italy is better then sweden; Two guy together are not a family.

They can be recognize as de facto couple but never as a family .
11:23 April 24, 2011 by johnny1939
I accept homosexuality but I do not have to like it and I recent having my nose rubbed in it through ads on TV, billboards etc.
12:08 April 24, 2011 by planet.sweden
Now lets see IKEA try the same trick in Malmoe. I think not.

There's nothing avant-garde about this ad it's simply a cheap dig at Italy's prevailing family values. I hope the Italians respond by boycotting IKEA en masse, then we'll see how smug the Comms manager feels.
12:53 April 24, 2011 by Nemesis
The advert is not a cheap dig at values in Italy.

It shows Italian politicians for how narrow minded they really are.

Italians have a nerve complaining about anyone from another culture. For 1000 years under the romans, they slaughtered entire peoples, enslaved entire countries, destroyed natice languages and exterminated cultures all over, then for another 1000 years under christianity they reduced Europe to a money making machine for the Vatican.

Any country that promotes something as evil as the Colleseum to the entire world as a place of culture, in which almost as many people died for entertainment, as died in Auswitch, has no right to complain about any external influence.

As for homosexuality in Italy. About half of priests in that country are gay. They should stop denying who they are and get on with life.
13:05 April 24, 2011 by Rishonim
Carlo Giovanardi is just another extremest who is refusing to enter into the 21st century. I suggest a warm glass of maiale warm milk and a chill pill.
13:35 April 24, 2011 by eppie
Striking that Giovanardi has time for making these statements. I guess he already reached his steal-money-of-the-people quota.
13:40 April 24, 2011 by HYBRED

Like the Vikings were so much better than the old Romans you mention.
14:34 April 24, 2011 by Swedesmith
Oooo, Giovanardi, you are such thilly man. I'm going to have to just smack you with my purse.
15:24 April 24, 2011 by Nemesis

Actually they were a lot better than the Romans.

Vikings did not kill as many as there reputation handed down to us by Vatican historians suggests. The Roman invasion of Gaul or that of Dacia killed more in one single invasion than the Vikings did in there entire existance. Maybe that might get it into perspective for you.

Vikings did not burn entire cities for no reason as the Romans did. They would have plundered them but not obliterated them killing everyone in the process as the Romans did.

Vikings never exterminated entire cultures as the Romans did.

Vikings never exterminated entire languages as the Romans did.

Without the Vikings, sities such as Dublin, Kiev and Novogrod would not exist.

Vikings were primarily traders, fishers, city builders, craftsmen and expert herders.

As for Giovanardi. I think he protests to much for some reason.
15:25 April 24, 2011 by Community
@Arturio As a gay man myself, I find your sentence completely silly and shallow. Family has nothing to do with the gender of the parents. Family has to do with love and moral values. Family is where you are home.

@Stickeroo Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, along with other ones like heterosexuality and bisexuality. For too long have people been discriminating against anything that isn't heterosexual. There is no one RIGHT orientation, thus, there isn't anything wrong with homosexuals showing their love.

I feel very upset when I read articles like that. When are people going to grow up and get into their thick skulls that marriage is not a political statement, but a human right?
15:41 April 24, 2011 by HYBRED

Marriage is a privilege, not a right. And when it comes to morals, most think homosexuality and bisexuality is immoral. You may have some legal decisions about sexuality on your side, but those decisions don't make morals.
15:45 April 24, 2011 by tommycapes
if homosexuality was natures way the human race would cease to exist. in all other species in the world either a genetic disorder or disease causes the same effect.

live and let live is my feeling about homosexuality but dont ever tell me it is natural. also werent the roman legionaires some of the biggest batty boys going.
16:01 April 24, 2011 by Pengy

yes, the vikings were probably not a bunch a closet pedophiles and child molesters, unlike the roman catholic church. Not only that, but the priest mainly molest boys, it seem. But hey, they are the voices of their god ::)

Anyway, yes the Vikings didn't kill as many as the romans or the catholic church. So they WERE better...
16:34 April 24, 2011 by Community
@Hybred You don't choose your sexuality. I mean moral values as in values like not killing, not hurting anyone, etc etc and homosexuality is nothing more than just loving another person. Marriage is not a heterosexual privilege.

@tommycapes Homosexuality IS natural. It exists in some animal species, but obviously not all of them. You can't just say it isn't natural just because the human race cannot continue with two people of the same-sex. It is natural because it is. Heterosexuality is as natural as homosexuality.
16:36 April 24, 2011 by technoviking
Why is this threatening?

Just because they're gay doesn't mean you have to be....

Is it offensive to acknowledge the fact that not everyone is a hetero couple with 2.2 children?
16:59 April 24, 2011 by byke
2 wooden pegs and some wood glue doesn't always equal something you would want in your house.
17:03 April 24, 2011 by STST

Probably you don't know the history of Italy so well. Contemporary Italy has nothing to do with the Roman empire and contemporary Italians are not (and do not consider themselves) the descendents of Romans. Then the Colisseum and the Auschwitz-Birkenau museum are both tourist attractions but the former is probably more "popular" than the latter. If so, what's the problem?

Said this, as an anti-Berlusconi and atheist Italian, I am glad that the Netherlands-based company called IKEA upsetted a few "Berlusconians" with this commercial.

I would appreciate "external influences" of this kind also from Sweden. Instead, what Italy got so far from Sweden is only a bunch of bimbos willing to participate at Berlusconi's bunga bunga parties:

17:18 April 24, 2011 by William Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha
@ Hybred

Do keep up. You're like 60 years behind the rest of us. Marriage is a right, not a privilege. See article 12 of the European Convention on Human Rights (3 September 1953) and/or article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (10 December 1948)
17:54 April 24, 2011 by jmclewis
A gay coupling ...... I am certain can raise and educate a child what it is like to interact with the opposite sex..... this lack of respect for the laws of nature is going to lead to people who are lost. It is best if a child has a Mom and a Dad. I cannot teach or explain to a child of either gender how women are.... it must be learned through experience as is much in life. Gay people have the right to be together ...... they should not have the right to bring children into there life because there is no possible way for these children to learn about life.
18:09 April 24, 2011 by calebian22
People, People, People! You're all missing the point! Ikea furniture still sucks, whether the sucking is an inny or an outy.
19:24 April 24, 2011 by fishpicks
Good on Ikea, I hope the poor butthurt Italians won't be whiny enough to take the advert down.
20:57 April 24, 2011 by libo

No Kidding! You could use your roman empire rant with a lot of people in the world, from the previous mayor of New York City (his grand parents were italians like mine) to the pop singer Madonna. "Hej young lady! Stop singing papa don't preach: think about your ancestor slagtering the Vandals!"

Seriously if you go back 2000 years you might find some roman genes you DNA as well.

That's not the point.

The point is that Giovanardi is an ass and Italian politicians abuse of those so called "values" to gain voters, while letting a 75 years old man to "have dinners" with a flock of 18 years old girls...
00:47 April 25, 2011 by redfish
From the bottom of the article: "Italy ...has no law against homophobia."

lol. Should they? Seriously?

The problem I have with ads like these is that obviously Ikea doesn't need to market to gay couples, since they're a small demographic overall. Who they're marketing to is not gay couples, but people of a progressive, political sensibility.

Ikea should stay out of politics, that's all.
00:47 April 25, 2011 by jimthat
what can an homosexual give to hunankins

nothing they dont reproduce

so they dissapear

they dont make love to bring a child to this wosld

they do it only for selfish oleasure

they are the kings of no reproduction

of genetical suicide
01:19 April 25, 2011 by redfish

Just like I can call me and my best friend a family.

My biggest annoyance in the whole same-sex marriage debate that we're supposed to regard two men in a romantic relationship as different than two men in a friendship, only because they're having sex. Neither case are allowed to get married, but only one instance is blamed on bigotry. Its not bigotry that I'm not allowed to marry my best friend... But, if I were having sex with him, that's a different story! And if you see no difference between to men as friends and two men having sex, you're ignorant.

Like I said, this Ikea ad annoys me just because the company is doing this to appeal to progressives and no other reason.

Progressives should also feel insulted, because the only reason corporations support things like gay marriage, the environment, and other liberal causes, is because progressives are the ones most likely to be critical of corporate practices -- calling them greedy capitalists. So a corporation spending ad money on gay rights is like buying an indulgence with the progressive community. "Maybe if we put out an ad supporting gay families, you'll forget that we support lower taxes and regulations and other policies you disagree with"
03:34 April 25, 2011 by philster61
So they think its bad taste do they? hahaha. Two words......Silvio Berlusconi
04:02 April 25, 2011 by jmclewis
Ikea, makes some of the Luxurious disposable particle board furniture...... it is convenient and breaks apart nicely to place in the trash can!
06:08 April 25, 2011 by jeffi_in_denmark
Really... who cares who you snuggle up to at night (or morning, or whatever)? As long as it is two (or more, I am so Canadian!) consenting adults, who cares? And why the heck should someone else feel morally superior enough to stick their ruddy big nose into someone else's private life? How rude. None of their d@mn business, and that sort is also probably the sort that would stone a woman to death in some non-Christian country for breaking a religious law that men can freely break as long as they pray often. There, fuel on the fire!

That being said, it is patently obvious that IKEA is pandering in this latest advertisement. Bad judgement and simply bad taste, to do that in any way. So many better ways to advertise that I cannot believe any company would feel the need to advertise in this way. Why didn't they show a traditional Chilean couple, or Thai or, God forbid but I am cringing even thinking about typing the next word, Muslim couple? Show them all!
06:54 April 25, 2011 by Rebel
Why can't Swedes recognize the fact that their "we are the world" outlook is a fantasy as most of the world is closer to the Italian minister's opinions than it is to Sweden? Swedes are the aeration in regards to their pathetic disdain for religion and traditional family attitudes.
07:28 April 25, 2011 by JulianCoulter

Hahaha! That was funny.

Nice one!
07:28 April 25, 2011 by Sydneyswede
My first ever teaching post (some 17 years ago) was in an inner city day care centre in Sydney. Of the 65 families that used the centre we covered every demographic you could possibly imagine..wealthy, poor, employers, employees, unemployed, drug addicts, domestic violence and family protection cases, heterosexual couples, gay couples (both 2 dads and 2 mums), single parents (through divorce, choice, even suicide), sambo, married...the list was endless but the point is that bottom line they were all families...all with children who came to us for care and education. Good on IKEA I say...the mere fact that this ad is causing discussion and in some cases anger and uproar shows just how important such marketing campaigns are!!
08:15 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED

On the contrary, you DO choose your sexuality. Homosexuals are men that are not man enough to be a man and women that are not woman enough to be a woman. In other words, homosexuals are hetrophobic.
09:00 April 25, 2011 by Deusultima
Sounds to me like the Italians are compensating, or perhaps even hiding something subconscious with their immature and rather intolerant way. Naturally there are gay people in Italy, but by treating them like freaks and denying them any attention in media you successfully alienate those people and create a "us and them" society built on hate.

I'm sure many of you people would prefer what I just described, but I sure as hell don't, and am for one happy to live in Sweden.
09:26 April 25, 2011 by Rebel
Italy has the lowest birth rate in the world. They can ill afford to see homosexuality catch on.
09:55 April 25, 2011 by karinBM
I wish more people where gay, they dont breede like the rest of us, and as the world is now, with disgustingly many humans, that is good.

So really people, homosexuality is good fpr the world.
10:08 April 25, 2011 by Deusultima

The western world does not have too many people, nor is it in direct need of birth regulation. Countries like Bangladesh, China, India and Nigeria do- where a very large portion of the population live in extreme poverty. Sadly, those countries tend to have less homosexuals per capita, I can imagine.
10:17 April 25, 2011 by Rick Methven

or should that be inbred as you certainly display all the Neanderthal trends. Genes determine sexual orientation.

Personally I blame the Pope
10:23 April 25, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
I personally do not care if a couple is composed by two men or two women,as long as they do not teach the children within their "families" their moral values a la "swede". Perhaps Kamprad will come out of the closet regardles of his age and he is sending some hints via IKEA's advertising. The ad is, in my opinion, tasteless, but my opinion does not count in a country whose "men" are either 50 % married or 50% gay. And of those who are married, who knows how many would come out of their closets if given the opportunity.

Belmar's motto: the majority of the Swedes are idiots until they prove the opposite. In the case of all the comments I have read about IKEA's ad in Italy, the majority has not proven the opposite.
10:29 April 25, 2011 by Deusultima
@J. L. Belmar

Where is this idiocy and of what does it consist and how does make itself known, more precisely?

The ad clearly wants to reach out to a gay consumer base as well as sending out a slightly controversial message to bring in attention. In Sweden no one would have cared, which you seem to agree is the right way to go, but that leaves me wondering what child raising 'ala "Swede"' is.
10:29 April 25, 2011 by karinBM

I don´t thing there are fewer homosexuals in ex. Nigeria India China, but I would imagine I would not "come out" as one there.

And as to Europa, we all have ugly places here that we easilly could tear down and not miss.

And the argument of who is going to care for all the elderly, really just is a question of organisation.
10:36 April 25, 2011 by Deusultima

I'm not saying it would be a huge disaster to lower our population, but it won't make a tiny bit of difference consindering the Western world is some few hundred millions, compared to the more than 6 billion people (and increasing) that leaves out. Most western countries have a more or less stagnant population change, or even a decreasing one as it is.

Also, the problems with overpopulation in other places of the world are not solved, even if all Swedish men sterilize themselves this instant. The decrease must happen where the problems are.
10:52 April 25, 2011 by karinBM

I think perhaps some of the aid that goes to those poor areas could be used as a bonus for couples that only have one or two children.

And something has to change as to the Catolic church´s view on contraceptive.

And all peoples view on homosexuality also should change, I think that they really are "bonus couples" in the world today.

(mother eart loves them!) :)
11:15 April 25, 2011 by STEF STEF
Ehi, but this topic has nothing to do with Madonna, the Colosseo, the ancient Romans who were there 2000 years ago....c'mon

Giovanardi just expresses his point of view that allows him still to be an italian politicians and earn a lot of money cause people vote for him, this is his line and people vote for him.

There are still many people in Italy that thinks in this way, that doesnt mean Italy is full of homophobic people.

The Church (Giovanardi is a catholich supporter) do not encourage homosexuality, but nor even hang gays in the Vatican, you know what i mean????
11:24 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

"Genes determine sexual orientation"

Is just a theory, not a fact. Something the gay crowd promotes to justify themselves.

I prefer facts. And if that is "Neanderthal", I am all for it. People like you like to latch onto laim theories to justify and condone hatever fits your needs at a given moment. You might consider enrolling yourself in some self inprovement classes.
12:24 April 25, 2011 by charubun pananon
I suggest IKEA to change this photo of the ad in Italy to be the photo of the rooster's family and I hope the Italian would surely like it.
13:05 April 25, 2011 by Rick Methven

You should learn to spell before you post. Again hitting the keyboard without engaging brain.

And again nailing your racist and homophobic flag to the mast.
13:14 April 25, 2011 by technoviking

There's actually quite a bit of evidence indicating that being gay is tied to some combination of hormonal developments and possibly genetics... meaning biology rather than choice.

Particular finger length ratios, hair swirls, brain region sizes, inner ear size and assorted other physiological traits tied to hormonal development are associated with homosexuality.

Obviously nurture plays a role too so it may never be crystal clear, but there's plenty to indicate they are born somewhat different hormonally than straight people with more of a predisposition for it if not a guarantee of it...

Either way, who cares what two consenting adults do with themselves when they are alone? There are bigger issues in the world that ACTUALLY effect your life.
13:30 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

So are you the blog spelling nazi now? Who put you in charge? And you call me a racist? What race was ever mentioned?

You just can't come up with something intellegent to say, so you start name calling.

In fact calling me a racist is nothing more than slander and you should apologize. Your flirting with a legal issue here.
13:30 April 25, 2011 by William Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha
There is also quite a bit of evidence indicating that homophobia stems from repressed homosexuality.
13:52 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED

You use words/phrases like "evidence indicating,tied to some,associated with", and that is my point. There is no concrete evidence that it is genetic.

Now Rick Methven says it is genetic and blames the Pope.

But I do agree with you in that there are bigger issues in life to deal with.
13:56 April 25, 2011 by karinBM
Perhaps HYBRED should go a little gay this spring, why not? Then he/she would know of what he is talking.
14:01 April 25, 2011 by technoviking
@ Hybred

Not "concretely" that it's genetic, but quite a bit that it's related to hormonal development which could be the result of gene expression, epigentics, environmental exposures in the womb, etc...

However it happens, if they have developed differently hormonally it indicates a biological component and is therefore not simply a "choice" per se.

And considering the persecution gays have received and continue to receive in many backwards parts of the world (except Iran of course where there aren't any) I highly doubt anyone would choose this...
14:15 April 25, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
10:29 April 25, 2011 by Deusultima

"Where is this idiocy and of what does it consist and how does make itself known, more precisely?

"The ad clearly wants to reach out to a gay consumer base as well as sending out a slightly controversial message to bring in attention. In Sweden no one would have cared, which you seem to agree is the right way to go, but that leaves me wondering what child raising 'ala "Swede"' is."

Mr. Deusúltima:

Your "comment" to my assertion, only proves that you still have not proven the opposite. And, for your information, a la "Swede" iis

nothing more and nothing else than the Swedish style of raising children. If I had been discussing about islamism, I would have written a la muslim style. Children in Sweden are nothing but a bunch of Pippi Långstrumpor copies: ill-manered, rude, disrespectful...you choose. That is what I meant with child rasing a la "Swede".

Your "The ad clearly wants to reach out to a gay consumer base as well as sending out a slightly controversial message to bring in attention" is clearly a statement of a nincompoop, because if you believe that in Italy the ad will reach a gay consumer base you are deadly wrong.You Swedes believe that the world rotates around Sweden, but believe me, there are many in the world that whey they hear the word Sweden, think that they are the manufacturers of the Swiss cheese and the Rolex. I can assure you that Swedes did not invent neither the luke warm water nor the Coca-Cola. So please, stop thinking that Swedes are the top, are Mohatmma Gandhi or Napoleon brandy. They are just plain common people; more plain than common.

Going back to the ad of IKEA in Italy, it is an ad that will provoke controversy in any catholic country and in many others. The nationals of those countries do not have to accept what the Swedes have accepted for many decades ago: that the Pride Festival is the biggest success in the world. Live with your way of thinking and behaving, but do not try to convey these to others and stop critizising them because they do not accept your "revolutionary" ideas.

The ad is tastless. Dress the two homos like muslims and you will see what happens. Just put the ad in a muslim country and you will have Carl Bildt "thinking" how to appologize. Maybe by sending some Jas Gripen planes to calm down the protests.
14:19 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED

So the fact that I'm not gay means I don't know what I'm talking about? So gay people are the only ones that can have opinions on gays? So then what right do gay people have to call straight people homophobic? This works both ways. If your liberal enough to be pro-gay why can't you be liberal enough to accept a hetro view point?
14:27 April 25, 2011 by J. L. Belmar

karinBM will never be liberal enough to accept a hetro point of view. She must be a feminist, because debating with her is like debating with a wall. Take it easy! Be happy, go lucky.
14:29 April 25, 2011 by Rick Methven

If you believe that homosexuality is a matter of choice rather than hormonal/genetics them why not try it out?

As the saying goes

Don't knock it until you've tried it.
14:40 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED
@J. L. Belmar

"...never be liberal enough to accept a hetro point of view"

Thats a very funny statement. I like that. Not just for discribing karinBM, but many others.
14:40 April 25, 2011 by Hwiorae
You people are ridiculous; it wasn't a blowjob scene, it was a couple of guys holding hands, for crying out loud. Move on w/ your sheltered lives.
14:45 April 25, 2011 by Syftfel
The problem is easily solved. I strongly recommend to Carlo Giovanardi("Kalle Johansson") that he refrains from shopping at IKEA. In a democracy we're free to protest by simply not shopping at the place. See how easy that was? The more interesting question however is what will our muslim brethren think about two young men going shopping together for furniture. They are the ones whose opinion counts. Once they start voicing their opinion, Swedish politicians will fold like a cheap camera.
14:46 April 25, 2011 by karinBM
@HYBRED and @J.L.Belmar

It´s just that you are so against homosexuals that it rings false. If you are not gay why do you have so much opinion about it.

Im mostly hetrosexual, and i belive people can make up their own mind, and should not be persecuted doing so.

And if unsure, perhaps try it.

And i think the IKEA ad is truly innocent and sweet.
14:54 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

As far as I know beastiality is as legal in Sweden as homosexuality is. I am 100% sure I wouldn't like sex with a pony, or someone of my own gender.
15:44 April 25, 2011 by J. L. Belmar

Your way of reasoning proves once more that you are "stängd i Huvudet" or, in plain English, the coin in your cash register did not register at all. Just because I am not Chinese, according to your intelligent way of arguing, I am not allowed to talk about China and express my opinions about that magnificent country. Give me a break or fly a kite.

Your " I'm mostly heterosexual" comment says everything. You came out of the closet without being requested to do it. And, the one who is unsure is you with your oustanding remark.

I would not be surprised if you declare that after visiting Auschwitz, you found it truly innocent and sweet.

I told you HYBRED what you could expect of karinB. Now I gather what that B means with her "I'm mostly hererosexual" assertion.

And i think the IKEA ad is truly innocent and sweet.
15:57 April 25, 2011 by HYBRED

" If you are not gay why do you have so much opinion about it"

So I have to be gay to have an opinion on gays?

I have "much opinions" on different subjects, just ask. And I would say that we would agree on other things.

"And if unsure, perhaps try it"

I am sure, no questions here.

I have been taunted here to try a gay relationship. Has anyone taunted a gay here to try a hetro relationship?

And I think the Italians should spend less time criticizing ads and more time learning how to drive a car.


I've seen this type of liberal before. They talk of being open minded, but in the end they are the most close-minded.
16:48 April 25, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
I wrote by mistake that I did like the ad because it was truly innocent and sweet. What a goof! I meant to say that it was tasteless. Period.

@HYBRED Hurrah for the Scorpions! And making a parody of a very known Brittish song: Sail you Scorpions, the Scorpions rule the waves; Scropions never, never will be slaves.
17:28 April 25, 2011 by karinBM

Ha ha ha!

18:07 April 25, 2011 by LeoKinmann
@tommycape and Community

The debate is not about natural or not... If we are to discuss this, as a biologist I would like to say:

yes homosexuality exists in some animal species. if you think it's natural just because it happens outside humanity and therefore "in the nature", then for you it's natural. BUT, the genetic traits or whatever causing homosexuality, will not remain in nature for long.

Why is that? It's because homosexuality wont produce your offspring to pass along your genes. In society where gays are not allowed to come out, they pretend to live like hetero and leave their genes to the next generation anyway. In some sense, it's good that gays and lesbians are coming out and don't breed with the hetero. Theoretically speaking, the result of every homosexual person coming out in one generation will guarantee that in the future there will be little to no homosexual individuals. A solution that appeases the gays and lesbians today, and homophobic people in the future.

This is purely from a biological point of view. I don't attach any moral aspect to it. Besides, I think Belmar in post #54 said it. Also, the ad could portray immigrant families instead of gay couples. IKEA's approach made it seem like immigrants have lower status than gays in this society.
18:12 April 25, 2011 by STEF STEF

EHEHE, I like Kalle Johansonn.

Anyway I think it' won't be difficult to ask swedish muslims what they think about it, just put some ads in the muslims areas in Malmoe or Gothenburg and make a litlle survey....pay attention to the stones and torched cars anyway, i am reading they are quite typical there.

Ehi, also Amsterdam was a gay friendly city, it was...., just take tram 7 or 14...till the end....
18:45 April 25, 2011 by GraciesDaddy
"I accept heterosexuality but I do not have to like it and I resent [sic] having my nose rubbed in it through ads on TV, billboards etc."
19:34 April 25, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
@ karin BM

Karin, Karin,

Shut up your B ig M outh now;

You're half clumsy

Thinking just what to say.

It cannot be a clever debate,

'cause you cannot afford a Big mate,

But you look B, upon a Bee,

That will make a life easier for thee.

Ho, ho, ho! Touché
19:45 April 25, 2011 by Swedesmith
I don't think I could be gay...I'm too grouchy.
19:50 April 25, 2011 by J. L. Belmar

Karin, karin, shut up yer big cakehole now; you're 'alf winnick think'n juss wa' ter say. it cannot be a clever debate, 'cause yous cannot afford a big lah, but yous blimp b, upon a bee, that wul make a loife easier fe thee.

.Did yous dig it? er shall ay try anuvver way
20:58 April 25, 2011 by orstar
Hi to Sverige !

I am Italian but I dont' t recognize myself in what says such a person like Giovanardi . So if he doesn't want to see Ikea poster shut your eyes Giovanardi ...

Or you do not have enough troubles in Italy to worry and solve rather than meddle in ikea advertisement ?
23:01 April 25, 2011 by Species125
Sex sells, eller hur?
23:49 April 25, 2011 by samwise

what makes you think "There is no one RIGHT orientation"?

and what makes you think "marriage is not a political statement, but a human right"? Can you define this "human right" specifically?

Do you think polygamy is fine?
04:33 April 26, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
I guess I missed the part where it said that IKEA directly targeted Italy. So why the outrage?

Italy - isn't that the country where ALL the MEN still live with their MOMMIES??? ;-)

I see Arab men holding hands all the time. Does NOT mean they are gay!

I will start out by saying that Homosexuality is NATURES way of protecting the Human Race! (For the religiously challenged out there, - "GOD" created Homosexuality to help the Human Race grow!) It has been beneficial and necessary for our survival. Do not challenge me for the answer on this because I do have (some of) the answers as to why - your job is to find out - for yourself - WHY.

I think it is sad that a number of RELIGIOUS movements make claims that homosexuality is vile, worthless and allowed the death sentence. I see very little ACTUAL morality in these religions.

Now moving on -

@Community is correct that "There is no one RIGHT orientation". There are 4 sexual orientations; Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual, Asexual (controversial). Human sexuality is not Zero or ONE. It can be thought of as being somewhere between Zero (say female) and Ten (say male). There might be pure Zero females and pure Ten males but many people lie somewhere in between.

@Rick Methven, though you are probably correct that @HYBRED probably suffers from inbreeding, I need to point out though, that "Genes" probably play a "MORE MINOR ROLL" in determining sexual orientation. @technoviking got it correct. The development of the embryo into a human being goes through a lot of changes that ARE affected by hormonal developments.

We all start out female. A developing female who's brain starts building male brain structures can then have those natural MALE desires for females (but she's female). A male embryo's brain shifts from being female into being male. What happens when that shift is only partially completed and the MALE is born with female brain structures, leaving the male with the natural female desires for men.

Sexual orientation is definitely biological and not choice. BRAIN SCANS are showing Male homosexual brains reacting like heterosexual female brains. Female homosexual brains are reacting like heterosexual male brains. IT IS IN THE WIRING! It cannot be unwired! Being raised by homosexual parents WILL NOT make the children homosexuals! You will also find that it is equally distributed throughout all human cultures.

It looks like those people who say that "SOME ANIMALS" have homosexuality are INCORRECT! It looks like "MOST ANIMALS" including insects, fish, reptiles, birds and mammals have it!

@William Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha - "...that homophobia stems from repressed homosexuality." Or as Shakespeare said, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Which, for the more mentally challenged among us, means that - insist on something very passionately and people see your actions as the opposite of what you are saying. You closet gays yelling how foul homosexuality is! We see the truth behind your words!

@tommycapes, @jimthat, @LeoKinmann your misguided focus is based on the idea that homosexuality is genetically based and that "these" people have no USEFUL function. Now when I was a juvenile, I heard these kinds of arguments from other juveniles and indeed it is a juvenile argument. Being adults, I challenge you to actually find those things that homosexuality can ADD to the human race! It exists for a reason and indeed it is beneficial to the human race. Look and you will see. You need to understand, as to your misunderstanding the origins - it is NOT genetic. Therefore it will NOT die out.

@Rebel will never be able to understand that the Swedish culture, being a non-religious, spiritual culture, is probably one of the most advanced cultures the human race has created. His religious identity prevents him from understanding the concept of a spiritual society. His fallacious religiously created morals pale in comparison to morals that come naturally to spiritual people. "Traditional family attitudes" shows not a clue what family truly means.

@HYBRED, there can be NO proof presented to you that you will accept. Unfortunately for you, there is plenty of evidence that sexual preferences are NOT chosen! You have some kind of agenda that drives you to hate homosexual "MEN". (The lady doth protest too much, methinks.) You do not have a clue what homosexuality is. You seem oblivious to the fact that there are women homo's too since your definitions excluded them!
07:13 April 26, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
04:33 April 26, 2011 by DamnImmigrant

You certainly are the cream of the coffee. Yes sir! By stating that homosexuality is NATURES way of protecting the human race and implying that God created homosexuality to help the human race grow, and that it has been beneficial and necessary for our survival, shows but only one thing: you are the typical Swede that believes that is the navel of the world. Common, just tell us why did you write this, for me, stupidity? Tell me the HOWS and the WHYS of your assertion? That is, if you can?

Your statement that "being raised by homosexual parrents WILL NOT make the children homosexuals" is one of the statements of the year, because, you damn immigrant, it is a proven fact that children mostly do what they see at home. Nothing more and nothing less. Besides, they will be mobbed at school because they either have no father or no mother and because their parents are homosexuals, trannies, bi-oriented, whatever.

In your statement about the animals, you missed to say to which breed do you belong.

Homosexuality has added to the human race the Pride Festival, where you can see how low some "humans" have fallen in the name of showing that they came out of their closets. And please explain me -something that you have not done up to now-WHY and HOW is homosexuality beneficial to the human race?

I do think that neither @Rebel, nor @HYBRED, or many, many others in this thread, including myself, will be able to understand your assertion that the Swedish culture is one of the most advanced cultures the human race has created. My opinion is the opposite, completely the opposite. A culture where almost everything is allowed; culture with, in my opinion- almost no moral values, should not be considered as one of the most advanced cultures the human race has created. But, allow me to ask you, which other cultures enjoy the status of Sweden, please? According to you, but of course.

You state that HYBRED will not accept proofs presented to him, but you damn immigrant, where are the proofs that you have presented in this thread? Give me some evidences that sexual preferences are not chosen?
08:11 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven
@J L Belmar

"in my opinion- almost no moral values,"

You said it, and as your opinion is that of an opinionated but ignorant bigot, it can be ignored.

"Give me some evidences that sexual preferences are not chosen?"

As you claim to be an expert, how about your proof that sexual orientation IS chosen?
08:27 April 26, 2011 by HYBRED

Your just like some others here. When you have no facts you resort to lies and personal attacks, which are many. The main attack is saying that I "hate". Totally untrue. And I never singled out gay men and not gay women. And the rest of you claims and assertions are just plain bunk.

There is a old saying"If you can't dazzle someone with brilliance, baffle them with BS". DamnImmigrant , you have shown to have NO brilliance, and your BS is extremely lame.

I have no agenda. People make claims like your born gay, it's genetic, if your hair swirls in a specific direction, or your fingers a certain length how your inner ear is shaped in relation to being gay. What a crock. All in all there is no scientific proof of any of this.

I can't understand how people like you, Rick Meth, KarinB and even stand yourselves. You puff out your chest wth your liberal attitudes support the gay theories/lifstyle while claiming to be openminded. But when soeone presents a different point of view than yours, you get hostile and start attacking. So what happened the the liberal accept all attitude then?
08:57 April 26, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
08:11 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

You too, Brutus? Some people's children. The typical ignorant Swede has jumped into the arena; the one who belongs to the majority of nincompoops, because up to now, he has not proven the opposite. The gladiators are waiting for you, be careful. And the lions too. Spectators are deliriously waiting to witness how you will be converted into "potatismos".by debaters who are not "stängd i huvudet" like you.
09:29 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

"I can't understand how people like you, Rick Meth, KarinB and even stand yourselves."

Very easy, its something called tolerance, live and let live.

I am a happily married hetro male who has just become a grandfather, but have homosexual men and lesbian women that I am proud to call my friends

You a clearly lacking in any ability to be tolerant and your use of the label 'Liberal' toward anyone who does not agree with your own twisted view of the world ( I expect you have a picture of Sarah Palin above your bed)

Unfortunately for you, the day of the dinosaurs has ended, so accept that you are fighting a battle that is already lost and us liberals have won.
09:57 April 26, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

You say I use the label "liberal", but yet you call yourself a liberal. So your the only one that can use the word liberal? And I don't use liberal in the political sense,(because there are gay right wingers). I use it in the openminded sense.

In any event you have shown your true hippocritical self, you say I am lacking the ability to be tolerant, when in fact you are the one that is not tolerant by referring to me as a dinosaur.

And you again you continue to prove my case. You claim to be tolerant, live and let live, except when there is an opinion different than yours. You call my views twisted because you can't argue facts againt them. And in fact, my "twisted" views ARE the norm, so not twisted at all.

And you can't 'fight a battle', let alone win, when you keep shooting yourself in the foot.
10:40 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

"I use it in the openminded sense."

Therefore I as a 'liberal' am open minded and therefore you are not by your own definition

"And in fact, my "twisted" views ARE the norm"

In your tiny mind sunshine
10:53 April 26, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
@Rick Methven

The more I read you, the more I agree with a Latvian friend who told me that she had not married a Swede, because half of them where married and the other half, homos. I would like to figure out how did you became a grandfather. GOD's mysteries.

And by the way, I am not tolerant, I accept that poeple are gay, thieves and whatever they want to be, but that does not mean thay I have to convive with them, like you and your group of friends around you.

You write to @HYBRED that "Unfortunately for you, the day of the dinosaurs has ended, so accept that you are fighting a battle that is already lost and us liberals have won."

Please tell me when and where your funeral will be conducted. Will it be in Jurasic Park? Where?

Being liberal does not mean that you go beyond certain boarders of good taste, moral and decency and good behaviour. You liberals have not won anything, because you are still wearing diapers.
11:50 April 26, 2011 by fishpicks
I really don't want to spam but The Local rejected my original post for containing too many links:

Hi everyone!

Just thought I would provide a few research papers and some articles on the matter. Let's not just sit and produce written diarrhea, ok?

People here seem to be passionate about the subject so i'm sure you won't have any problems with getting your facts straight.

On the topic of homosexuality being naturally occurring or produced by society (as well as a good introduction to all this):


A little bit more in depth on the research done by D.F. Swaab mentioned in the previous article:

12:23 April 26, 2011 by Elvine
Homosexual's families also need sofas, curtains, tables, lamps, cutlery and all the other stuff IKEA sells. What do Carlo Giovanardi think, that people with homosexual parents sit on the floor, in the dark, eating with their hands or what? Of course they need furniture to, and to feel welcomed.

It's ridicoulus to get upset over a slogan like "Open to all families". Would it be better with "Open only to some families"- slogan?
13:46 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

Seems like you are a fully paid up member of the Westbro Baptist church.

Here is a tip for you, why not move to Uganda, you will find a lot of fellow blinkered intolerant scum there. You could even go in for a bit of gay bashing/killing without being arrested.

What are you afraid of?
14:08 April 26, 2011 by LeoKinmann
by DamnImmigrant

"I challenge you to actually find those things that homosexuality can ADD to the human race! It exists for a reason and indeed it is beneficial to the human race. Look and you will see. You need to understand, as to your misunderstanding the origins - it is NOT genetic. Therefore it will NOT die out"

So, tell me then, you who think you are so ominous. What do homosexuality add to the human species? Pride festival? Widespread HIV? Now it must be safe to assume that you are homosexual I suppose? It must feel very sorry that your type will no longer thrive in e.g. 50 years the way they do today. I feel sorry for you and your kind.

Just because homosexuality exists in nature doesn't mean it's doing good. Do you know what else exist in nature? Ever heard of Huntington's disease? Down's syndrome? Heamophilia? They exist because nature does not favor the solely "beneficial" traits. Nature selects. And whatever evaded or survived the selection mechanism remains. Homosexuality remained until today, in human society, the reason could be the lack of selective pressure against homosexuals, because they were forced to breed like heterosexual. Now you tell me, if you are a gay man, how do you pass on your genes if you refuse to mate with a woman? And how do homosexuals like you contribute to the human species? I tell you, don't even try to argue biology with me, you won't have a chance.
14:17 April 26, 2011 by Birchleaf
Homosexuality exists in most animal species and is quite natural. And if you believe that a trait will die just because those who have it won't get any offspring, think again. Have you ever noticed that the woker bees and ants are the majority of their respective colonies, yet they cannot reproduce! Guess that just made your head explode, eh?
14:20 April 26, 2011 by Jes
Whats up ! IKEA got in before anyone else I think .

The ad is all about curing the World of all sorts of phobias . The next Advert should be show a paedhphile man holding a childs little hand . Why ? because that is tomorrow?s family .

There are 101 studies that have found that some men are born with a gene that makes them to only be sexually attracted to infants . In other words , you are paedophilephobic if you are opposed to child porn or sex .

Come on Ikea ; open your stores for another modern family !
14:27 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

Because some of us posting here are not abusive toward Gay men or women, does not mean that we are gay, just that we accept that some people have that tendency. You and the others here who are so virulently anti-gay. ar just like Don Quixote tilting at windmills, all your huffing and puffing just makes you look more pathetic.
14:37 April 26, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds - Albert Einstein

Knowledge that is given is not learned. Knowledge that is NOT wanted - is rejected. In order to receive knowledge, you have to be open to the possibilities it presents. I leave it to those people who deny homosexuality has any value to the human race, to understand that there is another way of thinking. Your journey of understanding must start with YOURSELF. I can give you no "answers" that you could understand nor accept.

Here is a taste of what I am getting at. Our MODERN world and our modern religions forget where we come from, and in the case of a global disaster, where we might be going back to. In our more "primitive" time, the homosexual was able to act as a sort of councilor within the village helping maintain harmony. OK, so there you have one example of usefulness. Understand this one, and then go find some others.

As far as proof, I gave 2 different clues where you can start your search from, embryonic development and brain scans.

@J. L. Belmar - "...DamnImmigrant You certainly are the cream of the coffee...say to which breed do you belong..."

Factually I am referred to as a SELF-TRANSCENDENT which is indeed, very rare amongst human kind. Understand my profile and you may start to understand me.

@J. L. Belmar - "...By stating that homosexuality is NATURES way of protecting the human race and implying that God created...shows but only one thing: you are the typical Swede..."

I would be honored to be called a typical Swede! Unfortunately, as a self-Transcendent person, I will never be able to be a "typical" anything.

I am implying that NATURE created homosexuality and that it is useful to the Human Race. I used the word GOD as a reference for those who are religiously challenged.

@J. L. Belmar - "...just tell us why did you write this, for me, stupidity..."

Yes! I definitely wrote this because of stupidity. Most people fear what they do not understand.

I see a lot of ignorance (stupidity) concerning peoples' DANGEROUS attitudes and beliefs towards homosexuality. Homosexuality is an integral part of the Human Race - these words are DANGEROUS to many people and religious beliefs. I presented them to spark peoples curiosity. Hopefully that spark will fire up their motivation to learn more. To claim homosexuality is worthless, is to deny its value to the Human Race and specifically it denies these peoples' value.

I will tell you what, I will give you another taste. Women and children are our most valuable asset. The fact that they are alive because the gay guy died saving them is of DIRECT BENEFIT to the Human Race. Use your own brains and figure out what I am talking about.

@J. L. Belmar - "...homosexual parrents WILL NOT make the children homosexuals...a proven fact that children mostly do what they see at home..."

Wanting something to be true does not make it TRUE! There is PLENTY of written evidence that children do not become homosexual in homo households. You are basing your "TRUTH" on your idea that homosexuality is a choice. Search out the published facts.

Your sexual orientation is not based on choice. It is hardwired in your brain. I told you where to start looking - go find it.

@J. L. Belmar - "...will be able to understand your assertion that the Swedish culture is one of the most advanced cultures the human race has created..."

Yes, I doubt that any of you would be able to overcome your culture biases. The great thing about being self-Transcendent is the lack of culture bias which allows unbiased observation. Maybe someday I will actually write about my Swedish observations, but that is for another topic.

@HYBRED - "...saying that I "hate". Totally untrue. And I never singled out gay men and not gay women..."

OOPS, sorry, you're correct, I missed the woman part, and yes, you might be right about my interpreting what you were saying as hateful. I was seeing your words and how you were describing homosexuals as heterophobes who are not man enough or woman enough. I see these as very ignorant, hateful words. You do not need to be gay to understand gay people, but your ignorance towards gays is as homophobicly ignorant as I have seen.

@HYBRED - "...If you can't dazzle someone with brilliance, baffle them with BS..."

That is MY line! You stole it from me!

@HYBRED - "...your liberal attitudes support...soeone presents a different point of view than yours, you get hostile and start attacking..."

Thank for the Liberal reference, I was getting tired of the Liberals calling me a Conservative. Now in order to present another point of view, you really should know what you are talking about. Your ignorance on this subject is depressing. Like I said, there is plenty of research on the subject. You just have no desire to seek the truth.

@Rick Methven - "...its something called tolerance, live and let live...have homosexual men and lesbian women that I am proud to call my friends..."

Having homosexual friends definitely helps to humanize them. I learned a lot about humanity from my homo friends and societies attitude towards them.

@Rick Methven - "...your own twisted view of the world ( I expect you have a picture of Sarah Palin above your bed)..."

Thank you for that, my daughter heard me laughing from the other room with the door closed.

So why did this "Top Italian official" need to make such a stink - when everyone knows that controversy makes great advertising. Has anyone checked out if he was paid by IKEA to start this nonsense? Look at all this free publicity!
15:18 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

"So why did this "Top Italian official" need to make such a stink -"

I still stick by my Pope theory, especially at Easter when the Pope has been blasting homosexuals yet again"
15:19 April 26, 2011 by Jes
@damnImmigrant , you seem to have a lot time and a lot to say . Why don`t you write a book ?

This place is better off with shorter posts - not esseys.

BTW , homosexuality risks getting rendered "un-natural " if it has to be defended so strenuosly . As long as it is declared "right" it should naturally follow that there will be people who will think it is "wrong" .
15:34 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

What is rather telling is the irrational FEAR of homosexuals displayed by people.such as yourself

Do you fear that you may have an inbuilt tendency to be gay and fear that coming close to one will bring those suppressed desires to the surface?

It is a sign that you are not secure within your self
15:38 April 26, 2011 by technoviking
I'm not a liberal but I literally can't think of an "issue" that has LESS impact on my quality of life than where consenting adults put their genitals. None.

This is not a moral issue since no one is being harmed. As a hetero it's irrelevant to your life unless you happen to have some creepy fixation about where people's genitals go which says something about you, not gays.

@ J. L. Belmar

Comparing someone's personal sexual preferences to thievery, a crime that harms people and should be punished is not even remotely a rational comparison. All it does is show that you harbor some irrational, creepy simmering anger towards gays.

You might be interested in this study: blurtit.com/q446401.html

The original paper: ulrich-willmes.de/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf

Some self reflection might be in order.

@ Rick Methven

We're on the same side of this one but...

"accept that you are fighting a battle that is already lost and us liberals have won."

...sounds like very wishful thinking given the trajectory of European politics today. That battle's just beginning.
15:57 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

Yes, strange bedfellows ( in the figurative sense) you me and dammnedimmigrant agreeing on something. LOL
16:03 April 26, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Thank you @LeoKinmann, your post brought a smile to my face. I am glad you think I am gay because my gay friends accuse me of being too heterosexual (straight). If you truly could "argue biology", you would know that it is not in the genes. Likewise if you could argue biology you would know that homosexuality is not a disease. But then again maybe your belief system tells you to believe in such immoral thoughts.

@LeoKinmann - "...I challenge you to actually find those things that homosexuality can ADD..."

I gave 2 examples. So now you start searching, or was it an empty challenge?

@LeoKinmann - "...So, tell me then, you who think you are so ominous..."

Sorry, not getting why I am ominous: "being or exhibiting an omen, foreboding or foreshadowing evil" - My words might cause fear in some people but I try not to present evil. Are you projecting on me?

@LeoKinmann - "...Now it must be safe to assume that you are homosexual I suppose?..."

Swing and a miss; Strike 3! @LeoKinmann, You're out of here!

Hopefully 50 years from now there will be more self-Transcendent people and not fewer.

@Rick Methven - "...@LeoKinmann - all your huffing and puffing just makes you look more pathetic..."

And more closeted gay too. (protest too much)

@Rick Methven - "...I still stick by my Pope theory, especially at Easter when the Pope has been blasting homosexuals yet again"

YES! I get your POPE theory now. Yes that makes even more sense. Cool!

@Jes - "...Why don`t you write a book...homosexuality risks getting rendered "un-natural " if it has to be defended so strenuosly"

Everybody I talk to says I should write a book - That said, the DANGEROUS ignorance and hatred that society spouts about homosexuality must be brought into the light of truth. What is the saying -

All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

@technoviking - "...it's irrelevant to your life unless you happen to have some creepy fixation about where people's genitals go which says something about you, not gays..."

LOLROTFL - what a visual.
16:13 April 26, 2011 by technoviking
@ Rick Methven

Yes. Maybe Muslims give me a boner... I'll have to check. ;)
16:28 April 26, 2011 by Jes
@Rick Methven , where do you get the idea that I FEAR homosexuality or that I not sure of myself ? Why should I be ?

You missed the irony , didn´t you ?

My suggestion to you is that it is you guys that re-act to every bit of anti-homo statements that make it look like there is something wrong with you .

I am a man . If you issue a statement that I am not , I will NOT be spending a lot energy proving to you that you are wrong about me . I leave you to deal with your own imagination .

You too , are your mothers son , right ? If I told you that you were manufactured in a laboratory , I suppose you will not be rushing to take a blood test , will you ?

All I am saying is that time has already past for homosexual to have to explain or defend their case . One has to accept the reality that not everybody thinks the same about everything all the time .

It is not always a "phobia" to be opposed to some kinds of human behavior , especially sexual ones , otherwise all the Western World whould b considred to be full of "bigots " on grounds of forbiding polygamy , incest and other forms of sexuality that others may consider harmless and private .
16:53 April 26, 2011 by J. L. Belmar

Where in the hell did you got the following "nincompoopiada" that you atribute to me?

@ J. L. Belmar

Comparing someone's personal sexual preferences to thievery, a crime that harms people and should be punished is not even remotely a rational comparison. All it does is show that you harbor some irrational, creepy simmering anger towards gays.

You might be interested in this study: blurtit.com/q446401.html

The original paper: ulrich-willmes.de/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf

Some self reflection might be in order.

@technoviking. I guess the whole thread is making you to have Delirium Tremens a la Viking and believe me, that is really dangerous because you might start seeing and feeling strange people in your bed just trying to fool around. Just wait and see.

Now, let us put some sense around liberalism. Liberalism is a subjective item. What it means to you might mean something different to another. One kilo of fish is one kilo of fish to everybody.

A liberal can be "liberal" up to a certain point. Another liberal, might be "liberal" beyond the boarders of the first one. It all depends of the colour of the lense you are looking at liberalism.

Is that clear? Or shall I start from the beginning to make you understand the difference between a subjective statement and a fact.. And if we go to the basis of this stupid thread, let me tell you once more, that, IN MY OPINION, the IKEA ad is tasteless and it does not matter if I am liberal or not, IT IS TASTELESS and it conveys, as Giovardani put it, a false image of what a family is considered to be almost worldwide, whether the niincompoops like it or not.

I do not wanna Scapa Fla deeper into this so called debate, so, I will Scapa Fla and 'ave me Jim Skinner wif a sugar and spice sip of Scottish Friskey, 'cause the bloomin' so called absolute vodka makes me 'eaven and 'ell Uncle Dick. Vikings can keep their 'orns but they should find aahhht abaht the chuffin' origin of them, before braggin' abaht them.
16:54 April 26, 2011 by LeoKinmann
@Rick M

You don't know me. I have some good friends who are gay. All of my points so far have been based on scientific perspective. Science is science. All I'm stating is, if you are homosexual and don't reproduce, your genes won't proliferate. This include ALL of your genes, and IF homosexuality is among them, which is still a much debated subject, then the genes won't proliferate. Technically, no reproduction means genetic suicide. This is what I'm trying to say. Unlike you or some others, I'm just trying to state a fact. Facts are facts, they are not connected to how my personal experiences are with gay people, nor how I relates to my gay friends.


You are the uneducated idiot here. The worker bees and ants are clones. All of their genes come from the queen. They fiercely protect the queen. Since making sure somebody with your genes reproduce is just like making sure you produce. The genetic relatedness can also explain altruism among animals. Oh, is that too much information for your tiny little brain?


There is no evidence claiming homosexuality is a disease (nor is there counter-evidence saying it's not). What is known is genetic factors such as a specific marker on allele Xq28, do show correlations to sexual orientation. These are facts. If you ask about my opinion, I'd say I personally do think genetics or biology or whatever you say it, actually play roles to some extent. There is no evidence saying homosexuality having no genetic root. I also never claimed homosexuality to be disease. You assume that I think homosexuality is a disease, perhaps deep in your heart, you see it as a disease yourself?

Now you tell me, DamnImmigrant, what do you think are the biological factors for homosexuality? If you say there aren't any, then you imply homosexuality as a choice, which is just what HYBRED and some people are saying all the time.
17:00 April 26, 2011 by HYBRED

You write very long winded threads. And that is exactly what they are, wind. The fact is you or nobody else can present any concrete evidence that homosexuality is genetic. And that leaves only two other possibles; 1. they are forced to be homosexuals, which most would agree that they are not. 2. that is is a choice.

The reseach'e you have referred to come to no definite conclusion. So gay's may have a gene in common? Not all gay's have that gene. And some hetro's have the same gene but are not gay.

So when it comes to ignorance, you are the the poster child.

I stole your saying? How about I looked ingnorant up in the dictionary and it said refer to DamnImmigrant.

Or the hospital called and they found your other brain cell. Now the one you have won't be lonely any more.
17:26 April 26, 2011 by ruimove
wonder if instead of a male guy couple holding hands (uhhh sin! to the fire with them) the ad was two gay blonde swedish girls kissing this "moral guardian" italian would say anything about it.
17:33 April 26, 2011 by technoviking
@ leo kinmann

That's a misleading and overly simplistic explanation of how genes work.

There's evidence that male homosexuality is passed maternally and equates to higher fertility in females in the same line making it a positive reproductive trait for females with the male "gay gene".

"Camperio Ciani's team suggests that these gay genes may actually increase how attracted both men and women are to men rather than making gay men more "feminine," as some researchers had earlier proposed. Although this is bad for male fertility, it is good for female fertility and allows such genes to survive at low but stable rates in a population, the authors say."


@ J. L. Belmar

Um... Perhaps I attributed it to you based on your words...

"And by the way, I am not tolerant, I accept that poeple are gay, thieves and whatever they want to be, but that does not mean thay I have to convive with them, like you and your group of friends around you."

I guess the ad is "tasteless" if you are disturbed by the fact that gays exist for some "mysterious" reason ... I wouldn't know.
17:35 April 26, 2011 by HYBRED

BTW> I did say this:

"On the contrary, you DO choose your sexuality. Homosexuals are men that are not man enough to be a man and women that are not woman enough to be a woman. In other words, homosexuals are hetrophobic."

Now do have a problem with someone presenting their opinon? Are you tolerant?
18:07 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven

I think the gentleman doth protest too much.

Fits the bill with you I think
18:25 April 26, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

Thats your opinion, and I respect that. However the facts in the some of the threads above dispute it.
21:01 April 26, 2011 by Swedesmith
There is a new program founded and funded by the Roman Catholic church to "cure" people of gaydom. You can find out more at www.HomoNoMo.com
00:04 April 27, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
@ruimove - "...the ad was two gay blonde swedish girls kissing this "moral guardian" italian would say anything about it."

Excellent! I wondered the same thing. Most importantly, as @Rick Methven pointed out, the pope probably would not complain either. Isn't it funny that 2 homo women are acceptable and how 2 homo men are not acceptable.

@Swedesmith - "...Catholic church to "cure" people of gaydom. You can find out more at www.HomoNoMo.com"

Thanks, I followed the link and was surprised it was real. Now is his comedy based on real events? I will look deeper, could be some good humor.

@Jes - "...re-act to every bit of anti-homo statements that make it look like there is something wrong with you...All I am saying is that time has already past for homosexual to have to explain or defend their case...One has to accept the reality that not everybody thinks the same about everything all the time..."

@Jes, I see what you are saying but I do not really agree. I disagree that the time has already passed because there is still quite a lot of homophobia. I have a friend here in Sweden who got beat up by "god (allah) fearing" foreigners last year because they thought he was a homosexual. It is caused by ignorance, misinformation and institutionalized hatred.

I am reminded of the FORMER racists who grew up believing the subjects of their derision deserved what they got. Then these former racists found out that what they were taught about those "other" people were wrong. Instead of being lesser people, these former racists found the subjects of their derision were just like them and they became former racists. (Hope you got that.) - I am finding the same with Homosexuality. The gross misconceptions allow others to continue to see homo's as less than human.

My assuming that someone is too ignorant to talk to (pearls to the swine) is IMHO, wrong. I have to try to help people see how their ignorance is harming others. But yes, there comes a point when you realize that some of the people you are trying to help are not just not ready. I saw @HYBRED was incapable of accepting any kind of proof, but I tried anyways. Now he is back asking the same questions without a clue that I have already answered them. - At least I tried. @LeoKinmann is another one that I figured would be incapable of understanding, but again, I had to try. Now he is back asking questions I have already answered. I have to admit though that I found his argument so immature (childish) that I started laughing and I just had to comment on it. -- MY BAD.

It is OK to have an opinion as long as it comes close to reality. Opinions based on unsubstantiated information are worthless and in the extreme can become slander or defamation.
00:16 April 27, 2011 by LeoKinmann

I welcome your input! Finally did someone come up with intelligent comments based on references to scientific citations! Thanks technoviking!

This article mentioned that the gay gene is found on X chromosome. That's why this particular male "gay gene" can only be passed maternally. The father never gives his X chromosome to his son. Or the child will be a girl. Still, this gene has a "positive" effect only if it's passed to daughters, and will be temporarily lost if the sons possessing the genes don't have kids. If they do however, their sons won't get this gene but the daughters will become carriers of the "gay gene". This is indeed a very interesting mechanism for a gene to maintain its equilibrium in the gene pool of the population.

But still. If you don't reproduce for whatever reason, all of your genes, regardless of how "good" they are, are wasted from a natural selection point of view. Imagine some guy has a genetic mutation that grants him superhuman strength. All his genes will die very soon if he is a gay and refuses to have offspring. In evolutionary biology it's often stated that some traits are very good to have, but not good enough to give your offspring generations advantage over others. The "gay gene" vs "super strength gene" could be an example of that.
01:41 April 27, 2011 by Cornelius Hamelberg
The first two articles at the top of the pile could help you out:


We ought not expire of boredom or even whimper out... The smart advert should add more diversity to the underground.

Surely, there's no problem with two guys holding hands. Two ( non-gay) guys do that all the time in Liberia and Nigeria... I've been there... held hands with my friend strolling down town...

Someone has a problem with that?

Even if a Presbyterian, Rick could do some good to himself by reading the Pope's encyclical about the family...
07:53 April 27, 2011 by J. L. Belmar

@Rick Methven wrote:

13:46 April 26, 2011 by Rick Methven


"Seems like you are a fully paid up member of the Westbro Baptist church.

Here is a tip for you, why not move to Uganda, you will find a lot of fellow blinkered intolerant scum there. You could even go in for a bit of gay bashing/killing without being arrested.

What are you afraid of?"

Well Rick. I would be afraid of meeting you as the leader of the blickered intolerant scum there, dressed with a nazi uniform and shouting "Sieg Heil". Furthermore, I would not like to see all the IDEA ads you had placed along the roads.
09:30 April 27, 2011 by HYBRED

"It is OK to have an opinion as long as it comes close to reality. Opinions based on unsubstantiated information are worthless and in the extreme can become slander or defamation."

You should practice what you preach. The above only applies if the opinion is the same as yours. When I and others have presented a different opinion that yours, you and Rick Methven lash out with your slander and defamation.

What makes your opinions so high and mighty over anyone else's?

You "talk the talk", can you "walk the walk"?
09:41 April 27, 2011 by Rick Methven

The pupose of the posts that dammedimmigrant, myself and others have made is to debunk the complete and utter tosh that you post. we have used reasoned information rather than the unfounded, emotive irrational hate of homosexuality that you post.

@J. L. Belmar

Either take your meds or sober up before you post, it might just make you a bit more understandable.

on the other hand.....
10:04 April 27, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

You really shouldn't speak for dammedimmigrant. But what what you just stated was that it is okay for you two to slander and defame if the opinion isn't the same as yours. The only thing I wrote was this:

"On the contrary, you DO choose your sexuality. Homosexuals are men that are not man enough to be a man and women that are not woman enough to be a woman. In other words, homosexuals are hetrophobic." I have the right to my opinion without your slander and defamination.

And I did read some of the articles cited above. They were full of "may's" and "coulds" and "possiblies". Hardly anything conclusive.

But the subject matter really isn't relivant any more. YOU have no right, nor can justify defaming and slandering someone for having an opinion.
10:32 April 27, 2011 by Rick Methven

Slandering someone for having an opinion:LOL

I do not see where you have been slandered.

Your statements where not opinion you purposefully made a statement

"On the contrary, you DO choose your sexuality" and chose to emphasise it by putting the DO in upper case.

You belittled and abused homosexuals in your posts which is in breach of Sweden's law of hets mot folkgrupp

to quote:

"Hets mot personer på grund av sexuell läggning kriminaliserades genom tillägg till bestämmelsen om hets mot folkgrupp"

So rather than you being slandered, YOU are the slanderer
10:47 April 27, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

I will remind you that called me a racist. That is slander. And I am still contemplating action over that. As I have screen shot of this.

And "you Do choose your sexuality"? What a joke. Everyone has that choice. A hetro can choose to be a homo if they want.
10:56 April 27, 2011 by Rick Methven

Going to sue me how pathetic

I'm going to tell my mum on you

At least you would have to stop hiding behind the name HYBRED

how about this you wrote:

"@black boy

If you have a problem with Sweden I'm sure your welcome to leave and go back to your place of origin. Things are probably much better there. But I guess if it was so much better there you wouldn't be here? "
11:01 April 27, 2011 by Jes
@DamnImmigrant ,

there is always a danger in over-simplifying complex issues or over-complicating simple things.

With you and most homosexuals , every opinion on the issue of homosexuality is quickly classfied as "homophobia " To you , one is either homophobic or homophiliatic . It is not possible to have something in-between ?

Even before you could real get to understand what I wrote , you concluded that I must FEAR homosexuality and that I am not sure of myself .

If I were to follow your route of reasoning , I would say that those who are opposed to child sex or polygamy are motivated by some FEAR born out of a "phobia " What would you think of me then ?

Now you are telling me about your gay friend who was beaten up by muslim gay haters . I agree that there are gay haters , just as there are muslim haters ; but I don´t agree that it is a phobia to have a negative opinion about Islam or homosexuality. There should be a clear distinction between disagreeing and hating . For example , forbidding smoking in public is not exactly the same as hating the smokers .

Also , an intellegent muslim ought to know that his religion has some issues that make some sections of society uncomfortable . It would therefore be silly for Islam to place their adverts in certain locations without expecting that it is going to annoy some people . Some nations have passed laws to ban building new mosques , and I don`t think the World is about to come to an end because of it .

It shouls follow that an intelligent homosexual should know that his is a different kind of sexual / relations arrangement that not everyone is going to understand , let alone agree with . Homosexuals should NOT FORCE others to like what they do . Not all sexuality is okey for everyone .

Calling 2 men a family is something that is going to start off a hot debate .

In my opinion , there is a thin line between tolerance and pity .

I am yet to figure out which of the 2 you are advocation for on behalf of "your friend" and the gay community .

PS : this is an intellectual opinion which is neither pro or anti gay .
11:05 April 27, 2011 by HYBRED
@Rick Methven

So where is race involved? Did I mention race? I purposely didn't mention race. And just because he calls himself 'black boy', does that mean he is black? Do you know this person to be a black boy?

You look at his post and the subject matter and your telling me it was for real? Although possible, highly unlikely. And why didn't you do a spell check on him like you do me?
14:29 April 27, 2011 by Cornelius Hamelberg
About the race and homosexuality aspect of reality, here's a slant that might be of interest to the slanderers and those who are slandered:


And here's a song for friend Rick Methven and me:

14:54 April 27, 2011 by Rick Methven
@Cornelius Hamelberg

thanks for that
15:19 April 27, 2011 by Swedesmith
@DamnImmigrant I had no idea that there was a website! I've gotta check out my sources more carefully before I spew stuff out.

Thanks for the laugh!
15:33 April 27, 2011 by Rick Methven

There you go a fount of information without even knowing it

any more web sites you can think up?
15:55 April 27, 2011 by Jes
J.L. Belmar , before you tell somebody to move to Uganda , you need to travel and educate yourself first . I travel a bit and have been to Uganda recently .

You would be suprised to learn that it is not true that homosexuals are as persecuted there are the media wants the World to believe . One of the most audible advocate of homosexuality is a professor on one of the most famous Universities in Africa . Mkerere . She is as free as any homosexual in Stockholm .

There is well known pub for gay people just opposite one modern police Station . There is a group of gay male dancers led by one "Brenda" . The man who wears dresses sometime , has never been arrested and charged because of being , acting or looking gay .

I found out that although homosexuality has been illegal for more than 50 years , there is NOT A SINLGE case in which someone was ever put in prison because of being gay. True , Ugandans , like most Africans despise homosexual and abhor homosexuality , but there is no evidence that individual homosexuals are treated any worse than any other co called liberal society .

The proposed anti - gay law that makes some people really worked up is just one of those things that are subject to exaggerations and distortions . Like USA and China , Uganda kills some convicted prisoners . I was told that some members of parliament want to include "aggrevated homosexuality"among capital offences that are punishable by death . They also reason that any other aggrevated sex , especially in which a child may be intentionaly infected with HIV virus should be treated as an intent to murder .

One should be free to debate if this is a good law or not .

One MP told me that there are too many homosexual who immigrate to Uganda to start schools and churches with an intention to get access to children . Although I personaly don`t agree with everything they told me , I have no problems understanding why a society like the one in Uganda thinks it under some kind of "cultural invasion" .

Sweden has an anti-immigrant racist party in its parliament as a sign that 6 % of its citizens are not as accomodative as the rest of mankind . Sweden, also criminalizes prostitution ; I see no reason why Uganda cannot have laws that forbid some kinds of "sexualities "

No man is calturally superior or inferior to another . You just don`t buy your freedom by supressing the freedoms of others .
15:57 April 27, 2011 by technoviking

I don't think it's slander if we have no idea who you are... ;)
17:41 April 27, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
@Rick Methven - "The pupose of the posts that dammedimmigrant, myself and others have made is to debunk the complete and utter tosh that you post"

Thank you Rick Methven, it was well spoken and contrary to other opinions, does speak my words too. Personally I choose not to interact with HYBRED because I can see little if any logic in his words. I find people like him interesting because trying to understand his mind helps me understand more about people in general.

I love the way he keeps trying to convince everyone that what he says, is his "opinion". Unfortunately he needs to know that he is not having an OPINION - he is having a DELUSION. A delusion is a belief or a thought which is fiercely defended even though it can not be substantiated and/or which has evidence that it is NOT TRUE.

@Cornelius Hamelberg - "...first two articles at the top of the pile could help you out"

Thanks, I had not seen Slate. I liked this one http://www.slate.com/id/2193841/

Now on to Jes -

Jes, it is clear you have no idea what I am talking about and I wonder IF in fact, YOU know what YOU are even talking about!? Definitely a lot of anger, so much so that I think you are forgetting who you are talking to.

You start off talking about 101 studies that claim there is a pedophile gene which is not true. No studies have found any pedophile gene. Then you try to convince us that defending homosexuality is counter productive. And now you have totally lost it claiming that not only am I a HOMOsapien but that I have said bad things about you.

@Jes - "...danger in over-simplifying...With you and most homosexuals, every opinion..."homophobia " To you , one is either homophobic or homophiliatic..."

WOW! Talk about coming out of nowhere! Some people actually hear voices in their head telling them stuff that has no bearing on reality. You have CREATED some incredible fanciful stuff about me that follows NO logic or reality at all!

The DANGER, as you put it, is in allowing hateful degrading stereotypes to persist that present Homosexuals in less than human terms! The DANGER is in denying them equal rights! The DANGER is in allowing them to be murdered by some religion because that religion's god demands it!

@Jes - "...you concluded that I must FEAR homosexuality and that I am not sure of myself..."

WOW! Again with the fantasy reality. Are you using another NAME on this forum and you forgot I am addressing Jes? Have you lost the fact that I am the DamnImmigrant and not someone else?

@Jes - "...If I were to follow your route of reasoning...opposed to child sex...motivated by some FEAR born out of a "phobia " What would you think of me then..."

I worry about you now! You seem to have lost touch. Again with the CHILD SEX?

If you were to follow my route of thinking, you would understand that homosexuality is a natural part of the human race and you would have no problem granting them the same rights that we all enjoy. It would NOT mean that you have to like them.

@Jes - "...Now you are telling me about your gay friend who was beaten up..."

First "near" grip on reality there but I said "they thought he was a homosexual". He is NOT a homosexual they attacked him because they THOUGHT he was gay!

@Jes - "...Homosexuals should NOT FORCE others to like what they do...Calling 2 men a family...you are advocation for on behalf of...PS : this is an intellectual opinion which is neither pro or anti gay ."

I have never seen Homosexuals "FORCE" anyone to "like" what they do! Yes Jes, IMHO, this kind of thinking clearly shows that you are in fact ANTI-GAY! You are saying that just by being "SEEN", and "SPEAKING UP" for their rights, that Homosexuals are "FORCING" themselves on YOU? That is pretty warped thinking there Jes. It also says something about you as a human being.

Yes, calling 2 men a "family". Maybe the picture would have been better if the 2 men holding hands, were also holding hands WITH THEIR CHILDREN!!

Family is an interesting concept that frequently gets short changed by LIBERALPHOBIC people.

As a self-Transcendent person, I find I am an "Advocate" on behalf of the Human Race! This is where your bizarre fantasy about your perceptions of what I said to you, really went off course. I find it virtually impossible to believe the type things you accuse me of.

Jes, you are also wrong by saying that what you said was an "intellectual opinion which is neither pro or anti gay" because I saw little "intellectual" and definitely ANTI-GAY! Although I will give you that it is an opinion and not a delusion.

The only thing that I think that I can agree with you on is when you said, "Not all sexuality is okey for everyone." I could not agree with you more - JUST ASK MY WIFE!
18:25 April 27, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
@Swedesmith - "...I had no idea that there was a website!..."

Thanking ME for the laugh? Are you serious that you just made up the name? My problem is that I am gullible. If you say it is true I will believe it. But still hard to believe. I looked around the site for the catholic part but thought I would look more later. It was what you said it was.
22:23 April 27, 2011 by samwise
DamnImmigrant, list whatever types of orientation don't make them all right. Stealing exists, that doesn't make it right. Do you believe marriage is a human right too?
00:33 April 28, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Sorry SAM but you do not sound very WISE. If you understood my profile (I am guessing you can't) and read my posts, you would know those truths that are self-evident. Come back when you're sincerely curious.
07:45 April 28, 2011 by samwise
I didn't expect personal attacks. But that's alright...

I'm glad summer is coming.
11:21 April 28, 2011 by Jes
DamnImmigrant dear , I understand why you are rude and defensive . Its is obvious that you are not used to holding a sober civilized discussion .

Once again missed it. HAHA !!!

You are not familiar with the term "devils advocate " are you----------?

Of course there are studies that found that pedophilia is MENTAL DISEASE . It is the details that are debatable . I suppose you have heard that there are scientist who swear that even homosexuality is a biological ( brain) disorder .(My personal opinion is different )

Still , the sarcsm is that a pedophile can claim that he was "born like that"- and so that reason , those who oppose his sexuality are the problem. Spare time look for a group of pedophiles in Holland . They formed an association to fight for their "rights " .

@DamnImmigrant Sir , I am less bothered by your judgement of me . Even it I tried , there is no way I could ever prove that you are what you say you are .

But if you are as intelligent as you seem to think , you will have no problem realizing that even those who honestly support homosexuality do not always have to agree on the terminologies . In case you did not read it correctly , the key word in the above article is "FAMILY" . To keep things in their proper context , the complaint was not about homosexuality but about wrongly using the term : " FAMILY ".

Interestingly , this is not the first complaint against an AD . Recently , some family advocates in Sweden got angry when " Have an Affair " was splashed on busses .

The point ?

... free people tend to practice their right to protest and this is what the debate is about

It is goog that you remind that your friend was mistaken to be gay and beaten up for it . That is why this issue is not as simple as you want it to be .
12:43 April 28, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
@samwise - "I didn't expect personal attacks..."

Sensitive you are; perceive a personal attack you did? - But you are the one who chose samWISE. I was playing with your name and commenting on those 3 statements (sentences) you directed at me.

Your first statement is flawed and shows a total lack of understanding as to what it is to be a human being. Your second sentence is absolute and does not address the fact that it could indeed be "right". Then you ask my beliefs about human rights, which I have ALREADY basically answered. You directed 3 sentences at me, 2 of which are flawed and the other has been answered and you think I am attacking you for saying you do not sound very "WISE" SAM? Those 3 statements tell me a lot about you and where you are coming from, and it is NOT a place of "sincere curiosity". If you WERE able to understand what I wrote in my profile you would understand where I am coming from. LOVE samwise IS the key to understanding this issue.

samwise, IF you truly understood LOVE and actually felt it in your heart for every living being, you would not be going down the path you are currently taking.

That said - I wonder how many people in Italy are actually "secular" catholics or upset enough at the various religions' attitudes towards homosexuals so that the controversy caused by this ad WOULD cause them to go out of their way to shop at IKEA. Did IKEA direct this Italian controversy because they knew the demographics and are trying to motivate these other people?
13:01 April 28, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Yes Jes, I got the genetic pedophile "example" in your first post. I was rattling your chain sort to say. Your "born like that" argument does present an interesting dilemma to society. Personally I feel that if a person is afflicted with ANY "born like that" defect that causes them to harm others, they should not be found innocent by reason of defect and set free, they should be locked away in a secure facility (not prison) until they are TRULY no longer a threat to others.

This "society" of pedo's you mentioned are actually world wide. Of all the things I have looked at in my dyslexic mind, pedophilia is one of those things I do not get.

Jes, I had no "judgment" of you until you went "out of the blue" ballistic on me. -- That "force us to like them" comment was rather telling though. -- Yes, I am what I say I am.

Totally agree with you that it was the word "FAMILY" combined with the inference that gays can be family units too that set off this anti-gay rhetoric. I think it is sad that so many people have such a narrow view of what FAMILY truly means. Most interesting "family" I encountered was one woman, two men and their three kids. The men were NOT gay nor bi-sexual. They just lived as MAN and WIFE and MAN. Kids were happy and well adjusted.

My only problem with people expressing their opinions is when those opinions are DELUSIONAL and the subjects of the delusion are shown to be less than human.

It is so much easier to hate and hurt those people who we see as less than human.
14:04 April 28, 2011 by Jes
@ DamnImmigrant , so you think that those who HARM others should not be found innocent .

Right there , begins the puzzle !

Who decides what "HARM" is ?

Do you think that the thug who raped this Swedish athetic star can think he harmed him considering that Patrik Sjoberg turned out to be a sports icon he become ?

As you can see uphere , a section of Italian society thinks that IKEA is guilty of HARMING their family enviroment . Are they right ?

Also , you conclude that an opinion has to pass your test and taste before is free from being called DELUSIONAL . Someone like me is going to ask what makes you more qualified to judge this .

I need to clear this too : I use the word "FORCE " in a philosophical context - meaning that there seems to be no room left for discussion when it comes to homosexuality . One has to accept it in its entirety or one risks being called a bigot who suffers of homophobia. The consequence of this is that very many people will pretend to play along , be politically correct in order to avoid getting " red carded "
16:20 April 28, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Jes, I do not think you are trying to understand but I will play one more time.

I said "they should not be found innocent by reason of defect AND SET FREE".

You need to get a grip on what constitutes HARM, as in needing prison time - Maybe I should say pathological violence.

The people you mentioned who "claim" they are being "harmed", are in fact NOT being harmed by some outside entity (ie IKEA), they are being harmed by "themselves" and by "their own beliefs", which are being challenged!

This is the crux of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Jes, it seems like English is not your first language so I have to read carefully what you are trying to say. It is so easy to misunderstand what someone is trying to say. You also need to read real carefully what I am saying. Now you are off on some tangent about "opinion" passing "MY" test before being cleared of delusion. I thought I gave a clear definition of what a delusion is.

If someone fiercely defends something they believe, even in the face of EVIDENCE that shows this belief is not true - they are DELUSIONAL. Someone believes the world is flat - I take them flying very high up and show them the earth's curve. We land and they are still claiming FLAT - delusion!

"I" have no test - WHAT DOES THE EVIDENCE SHOW? If there is NO EVIDENCE - opinion; if there IS EVIDENCE - delusion. So I guess in your words, "MY TEST" is whether there is evidence. I also have to be careful of the SOURCE of that evidence.

I do not buy your philosophical context use of "force". Your statement that "One has to accept it in its entirety" is again loosing focus and IMHO, not true. There is room for discussion BUT what is being discussed and how is it being discussed, is the key. If the discussion is DELUSIONAL then yes bigot and homophobe may apply.

"Homosexuality is a choice" is NOW seen as a delusion because there is enough evidence it is hardwired.

"Two people of the same sex should not marry" is an opinion that does not necessarily make you a homophobe.

Jes, I think you are wrong that "very many people will pretend to play along". Very many people used to believe the very negative things that were said about homosexuality. But the world started to change and science showed us our previous (religious based) assumptions about homosexuality were wrong and MORE PEOPLE came to accept it. It does not mean they LIKED it! They just understood homosexuality more and accepted it as a NATURAL part of the Human Race. I WILL REPEAT - IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY HAVE TO LIKE IT! (accept it in its entirety? - nope!)

Would you really deny 2 people who LOVE each other the RIGHT to enter into LEGALLY BINDING UNION? What would give you the right to deny LOVE?

This discussion should not be about HOMOSEXUALITY - it should be about WHAT CONSTITUTES A FAMILY (you said it, and I agreed)
10:32 April 29, 2011 by Jes
@DamnImmigrant ,

first one off , you are right ; English is not my first language but one of several that I can write and speak fairly well . I should add that I write better English than most English -speaking people . Less than 40% English speakers pass written English exams (!!) I am guessing that you are aware of this , right ?

I have to repeat that the article is about some party raising their complaint against an AD . To me , it is illogical to complain against something if you are not of the opinion that that "something" is out to hurt , harm , offend you.

That is why there are courts of law to determine who is right or wrong

If you didn´t notice it , my position is not on whether it is okay for gay people to marry ; I am just wondering if is not hypocratic to deny that there are other people whose sexuality is also "hardwired" ( your term) ------and if so , what if they also claimed that their rights are violeted ?

Do you realize that a pedophile could also say that their sexual attraction is "hardwired" and to criminalize it is therefore ILLUSIONAL ?

In fact , I have already mentioned to you that indeed there is such a group of people who challenge the notion that children should not be allowed to have sex with adults if they want to .

Question : why should Sweden criminalize polygamy and prostitution ? Is Sweden DELUSIONAL ? Where is the scientific evidence that polygamy is not natural ?
14:53 April 29, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Jes, not really sure what you are trying to say "it is illogical to complain against something if you are not of the opinion that "something" is out to hurt".

None of the 4 human sexual orientations are pathological.

I have seen no one deny that sexual deviations can be hardwired. I believe that in many cases the "cause" of those deviant hardwiring are not inborn in the same way that the 4 orientations are.

I already gave you my opinion on the issue of "hardwired" behavior that has pathological outcomes (harm others). I gave you my opinion because there are a NUMBER of pathological hardwired problems that affect people. Unfortunately some legal systems say these people are not responsible for their actions, and find them not criminally responsible. Just because the psychopath can't help themselves, the gambler can't help them self, the pedophile can't help them self, the WHAT-EVER can't help them self, DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. There is a reason society criminalize's pathological behavior. It is interesting that you cannot get your head around this idea.

Why the focus on pedophiles when there are so many other hardwired problems out there? Do you not see that your reference to pedophiles in a discussion of an ad featuring 2 HOMOSEXUAL guys being called a family, can be misconstrued? Pedophilia is not harmless - it injures people; therefore criminalizing it is necessary.

Contrary to what a major religion would have us believe, having sex with children is harmful! Fact! How is it you cannot get your head around this? Why do you focus on a small group of pedophiles demanding their right to have sex with children when there are over a billion followers of this religion who KNOW it IS their right? (Sorry, just had to throw that in.)

I did not say those billion followers were pedo's and in fact the greater majority have no such desires. Unfortunately, the pedo's who ARE in the religion CAN freely act on their desires because they know that it is sanctioned by the religion.

Do you really believe in your "ILLUSIONAL" argument or are you just TROLLING? It is, IMHO, a nonsensical argument. Then again, maybe you really are trying to understand it.

ANSWER - are you REALLY asking WHY countries make laws?

I must definitely say that some laws ARE delusional.

--Homosexuality, for example, was outlawed in many countries.

--Then the scientific research showed that those laws were not based on fact and the laws changed to allow homosexuality.

--But these newly FREED homosexuals, found themselves as second class citizens who were denied the basic rights afforded to their fellow citizens.

--So these UPPITY HOMO'S demonstrated publicly by marching, picketing and demanding legal redress so they would get their rights to be treated as equals.

And the NUT-JOBS came out of the woodwork spouting DELUSIONAL anti-homosexual statements. Saying that these homo's are "FORCING" themselves on good decent citizens. How these UPPITY HOMO'S were destroying the very fabric of society. How they are harming FAMILIES and destroying FAMILY VALUES! My GOD they are even going to CHANGE our children into HOMO'S!!!!

Yeah, Right! -- (Yes Jes, IMHO, these ARE delusional statements!)

Does that answer your question about DELUSIONAL LAWS?

Jes, Polygyny is not against the law in Sweden because there are people who come here to live legally with their multiple wives. I have not heard of the other forms of Polygamy, Polyandry or Group Marriage, being legally present.

Should it be illegal to allow Polygyny but forbid Polyandry?

Jes can you get your head around the idea that some laws are made because society does not know how to handle the repercussions of those actions. The woman with the 2 husbands I mentioned before, dies leaving her 2 widowed husbands alone with their children to raise. How do these guys get the death benefits? But that is another discussion.

Prostitution IS legal in Sweden - paying for it is not 8-O.
16:33 April 29, 2011 by Jes
DamnImmigrant ,

NO , your rant does not answer my question . Far from it !

If you must be told , there is NO scientific fact to prove that laws that forbid polygamy , or beastility ( allagedly common in Sweden). There is a class of thinkers that insist that incest is "harmless" . More than 5 related couples in UK have had perfectly healthy children . In India , and some other countries , one is encouraged to marry a relative . What do you call that then ?

Okay, okay , okay , it is my faulty that I know much more about how the World operates than the likes of you single track-minded essay writers

. It is also my fault that your grasp of simple philosophy is poor . That is why you get stuck with things such as " prostitution is LEGAL .. but paying for it is not " But since you can write so well , there is hope that you are capable of educatiing yourself a little bit more .

You can begin with finding out the original reasons why polygamy is illegal in all the "western " cultures . The clue is that it has nothing to do with " people who come here to live legally with their multiple wives" .

On another day , I will have to ask how a man who live legally with multiple wives harms you to the point that you have to have a law that takes away his "sexual right " .

Before then , you will also find that if the issue of sexual orientation intellectually contextualized , the dabate is not closed . One has to consider the elements of biology , psychology , anthropology , enviromental sociology and so on .

I mean that it can be proved scientifically , socially , anthropologically , psychologically and biologically that humans are NOT orienteted to be monopolically attracted to one sexual partner . To claim that polygamy hurts women , men or their off-springs is purely a Western invention . But again , the West has its own right to enact laws that suit its population.

I feel like it will take more than a debate in the Local to make you detect my sarcasm .

Have a nice week-end Sir .
19:31 April 29, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Jes, thanks for playing! I'm sorry I cannot understand what you are asking.

Jes, it is interesting that polygamy is important to you but I have no desire to understand why polygamy is illegal. Polygamy is not important to the world I live in. If I want to live in a polygamous relationship, I just do it. Got that? I just do it! The government does not stop ANYONE, from living in a polygamous relationship. They stop us if we try to do it legally! Just do it - what is stopping you?

Why do you NEED to get married?

If you say that marriage makes it legal and affords certain rights that are not available to unmarried people. I would say EXACTLY the reason that homosexuals should be allowed be married.

I thought you were asking if I thought there were delusional laws. I answered YES and explained myself. Did you not like my homosexually inspired delusional law allegory?

Jes, you said Sweden criminalize's prostitution. I just pointed out that if a person wants to prostitute themselves here in Sweden - IT IS NOT ILLEGAL.

It is nice to see that you stopped with the pedophile comparisons but I find it interesting that you have switched to incest. Yes Jes, there are 5 related couples with healthy babies but Jes, you leave out the 50,000 plus related couples that have children with familial BIRTH DEFECTS!!! The British Health care systems says it is out of control! GUESS WHAT JES - Einstein was a product of such a relationship. Does not make it right.

Yes Jes, humans are in a very real sense serial polygamists. The proof is in the size of our TESTICLES! If we were committed monogamists we would have a testicular size of 1 (one). If we were absolute polygamists with no monogamist tendencies, we would have a testicular size of 2 (two). Jes, we have a testicular size of 1.5! This means that we are between monogamous commitments and all out group sex aficionados. Some of us are in committed relationships, some of us are not.

It is interesting to me that you are opposed to ONE WOMAN having MULTIPLE HUSBANDS!
11:26 April 30, 2011 by luxio
here in Italy nobody care about what Giovanardi says, you should do the same.

Or probably you (swedes) like to live with your reassuring stereotypes !!!
16:30 April 30, 2011 by Streja
J J Balmer, Sweden didn't invent coca cola but a Swede did design the bottle.
23:48 May 1, 2011 by Da Goat
@ Damnimmigrant

you wrote:

"@Community is correct that "There is no one RIGHT orientation". There are 4 sexual orientations; Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual, Asexual (controversial). Human sexuality is not Zero or ONE. It can be thought of as being somewhere between Zero (say female) and Ten (say male). There might be pure Zero females and pure Ten males but many people lie somewhere in between."

Both you and community forgot paedosexual and geriontosexual from your list!

(maybe there are more like zoophiles for example too.)

when we overlook your stupid oversight we can clearly see that some sexual orientations are just plain WRONG, so where do we draw the line and say this is OK and that is just plain wrong!

do we need to offer the same tolerance to paedophiles as we do for Homophiles?, it is perfectly OK to draw the line at the thin edge of the wedge but better to not consider the wedge at all.

I myself are a heterosexual Man and the thought of homosexuality turns my stomach but they too are Gods children and deserve our love and respect too!

So if they respect us we can respect them. we don't force our sexuality on them they should do the same and stay home and behave themselves with decorum!
11:48 May 2, 2011 by Jes
DamnImmigrant , I am glad to see that you did not go down with Osama . ( just a bad joke , okay ? )

Five short points of information for you :

1) in Sweden you cannot choose to live in a polygamous relationship without risking to commit bigamy . I am sure you know the difference between having sex with multiple partners and living with a wife / husband.

2) By all definitions , prostitution is ILLEGAL in Sweden . If is illegal to BUY sex, it must be illegal to SELL it . Note that the languaging was designed to protect the seller , i.e. the woman . I do not think I have to tell you why .

3) Sweden has one of the highest numbers of children with birth defects . There must be another reason for that beside incest .

4 ) The size of testicals has no direct connection with polygamy .

5 ) I would have an opinion on one WIFE having several HUSBANDS if I knew of a culture where this kind of family arrangement is practiced . I must say that I have seen ducumentaries where a woman is living with more than one man ( not more than one HUSBAND ) ***************************

And here is another one to ponder :

@ Da Goat says that the thought of homosexuality turns his stomack --- and then turns around to say that homosexuals should be respcted . Isn´t that the hypocritical " PITY" attitude that I mentioned to you ?
12:26 May 2, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Sorry Da Goat but you are CONFUSING sexual preferences, disorders, and paraphilias(fetishes) with SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS. Interesting that you are also comparing pedophilia with homosexuality. I have already discussed how comparing pedo's with homo's is a false equivalence, AND IN GENERAL, how "hardwired" pathological problems should be dealt with.

I already talked about the insincerity of statements like "stay home and behave themselves" when I responded to Jes (post 140?) by using homosexuality as an example of a DELUSIONAL LAW.

Da Goat, as a believer that homo's are "Gods children and deserve our love and respect too", I must assume that you are NOT one of those delusional "NUT-JOBS" I spoke of, and that you do believe homosexuals should be afforded the same rights that all citizens are afforded.

For me, homosexuality is a FACT (boring subject). What I find more interesting is the concept of FAMILY and how this IKEA ad is showing the concept of family to be much more inclusive than some aspects of society would have us believe.
14:21 May 2, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
Jes - Of the TOP 22 countries in the world with birth defects - 21 of them are FULLY ISLAMIC COUNTRIES! Twenty-one islamic countries lead the world in birth defects, with Sudan and Egypt as the top 2. Benin which is about 1/4 islamic comes in at number 3. Jes, as you were wondering/saying - what does THAT say about "incest"?

1. WRONG! Live with ANY NUMBER you want! Swedish government ONLY steps in when it BECOMES BIGAMY which is "LEGALLY MARRIED" to MORE THAN ONE!


3. SHAME ON YOU Jes!!!! MAKE UP STUFF to prove your point???? Sweden has one of the LOWEST BIRTH DEFECT rates in the world, about NUMBER 13 from the BOTTOM Jes! (- try the being devils advocate or ironic again?)

4. Wrong! Larger the testicular size ratio - the MORE "polygamous" the species! Smaller is more monogamous.

5. Oops, I said Husband as in "LEGAL" definition. My Bad. I should have said husband as in "not legally recognized" husband (sometimes called a common-law, or the Swedish idea of sambo). Jes, it is practiced in many parts of the world (Legal in Tibet?) - so it is OK for you to admit it is wrong.

It is interesting that islamic countries allow Polygyny but FORBID POLYANDRY! Why would islamic counties allow Polygyny but FORBID women from having more then 1 husband?

Your wondering about "a PITY attitude"? No, I have the impression that he may be "covering his bases" in the presence of his god. A sort of cognitive double speak.

So - defining FAMILY - I wonder if that Italian Minister would have complained if the picture showed a FAMILY as a Man with Multiple Wifes?

EDIT - I apologize for saying Sudan was fully islamic thereby ignoring the southern non-islamic people and their newly won independent country.
13:02 May 3, 2011 by Jes
@DamminImmigrant dear ,

corrections for you :

1) Per capita , Sweden has a higher number of birth defects than Egypt . PS : there are many causes of birth defects , incest being j just one of them .

POINT : those who want to freely practice incest can claim that it is more dangerous than any other relationship when it comes to getting offsprings .

2) " living with " is not the same as being marriade to in a legal way . Therefore one does not committ bigamy by living with " ANY NUMBER you want "

POINT : LIVING WITH MANY is not POLYGAMY in a legal definition;MARRYING more than ONE is POLYGAMY --and it is ILLEGAL in Sweden .

3) Every country or society should retain the right to make laws that suit its people . Those "Islamic" counties that forbid women to have 2 husbands should be able to explain why , just as countries that allow homosexuals to marry , can explain why one is only allowed to marry one partner at a time .

POINT :every society , (even the most liberal ones ) cannot open all its doors to every kind of sexuality . No society has yet succeeded in convincing the whole World that its route is the right one . Sex will always continue to have its myths .

**The Italian Minister would not need to complain , for there is a Law that forbids this kind of FAMILY in Italy .

** La Goat is doing what most hypocrites do : tolarate homosexuals in public while despising them in private .You call in cognative double speak?

** Confirm to me , with scientic proof , that the bigger the testical , the more polygamous the spicies . OR are you now saying that women who do not have testicals are therefore created to be totally monogamous ?

In that case , are the "Islamic" conutries that forbid polyandry smarter than than you think ?
17:05 May 3, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
I made a mistake. It is Saudi Arabia that holds the number 2 spot for birth defect rates NOT Egypt (which is about number 34).

Jes - I am using the March of Dimes report of 193 countries. Birth Defects per 1000 live births - Sweden 45.1; Saudi Arabia 81.3; Egypt 65.3 - PER CAPITA? Jes? - As the saying goes, Put Up or Shut Up. --- Jes, YOU brought up incest and birth defects - most EDUCATED people already know about other causes.

Jes you said that "in Sweden you cannot choose to live in a polygamous relationship" and YOU ARE WRONG! RELATIONSHIP is NOT defined as marriage. It is to bad that you are unable to understand human evolution, and how it relates to testicular size but - the idea of larger testicular size is not necessarily because of the men - IT IS BECAUSE THE WOMEN CHOOSE TO MATE WITH OTHER MEN whom they are not in a relationship with. To call Da Goat a hypocrite shows a shallowness and a total lack of understanding of what he said. (You really DO NOT want me to comment on islamic intelligence.)

Thanks for playing Jes. I feel your view of the world is far too narrow to be able to understand what I am saying. I would have preferred discussing FAMILY, which was the focus of this IKEA ad, instead of incestuous relations, pedophiles and homosexuality.

Now I would like to see an IKEA ad that shows a woman with her 2 men as a family. Maybe even some of their kids. I bet most people would not even get it.
20:49 May 3, 2011 by HYBRED
I don't get why they are looking at a freakin blank wall.
14:30 May 4, 2011 by Jes
@DamnImmigrant , how are you today ?

You really make me laugh .Here is why :

Sometimes , you write that you don´t understand what I am saying ; sometimes you write that it my understanding that is at fault .

Sometimes you write to say that Da Goat is confusing this with that - a double talker of sorts; other times you write that it is shallow of me to remark that Da Gaot could be a hypocrite .

Sometimes , you are quite sure that polygamy if forbided in order to close out immigrants that want to live legally with their multiple wives ;other times you declare that polygamy is natural especially for men (spicies) that come with larger testicals .

Is it so hard for you to make up your mind Sir ?

The Match of dimes report you are refering to is a very wide and deep report . It does not stop at naming incest i.e marrying relatives as the only cause of birth defects .

In fact , the report highlights that there is a connection between national wealth and defects . Be informed that one of the main causes of birth defects is exposure to enviromental agents aka teratogens , most of which are present in modern socities .

Are you going to recommend that Sweden makes it a crime for a pregnant woman to smoke or drink alcohol ?

Ah ! , before you accuse me of getting lost -----again , I remind you that my argument begun by sarcasiticallypointing out that there are couples who could challenge the notion of forbidding "incest " on the goround that it may hurt offsprings ,just as there are people who think that one has to be perverted in order to consider practicing incest .

My point is that it is naive to imigane that an Ad like that is going to be acceptable to every one .

I suggest that we close by agreeing that we disagree on many things , okay ?

BTW . my knowledge of the World is perfect . Any intelligent person can eazily detect that
08:20 May 6, 2011 by DamnImmigrant
@HYBRED - "I don't get why they are looking at a freakin blank wall."

Now that you mention it - totally true. Most advertisers would have the entrance to their store with the store's logo above it saying "come on down".
03:18 May 26, 2011 by caffeine001
@HYBRED - that was probably THE most stupidest thing I have ever heard someone say about homosexuality.

What? They're not man or woman enough and they're "heterophobic"?


I'm gay myself and ever since I can remember, which was about three years old, I remember liking men (or boys at that age). You really think that being man enough was a major life concern for me at three years old?

Gyah, I really hate people like you who decide to blow stupid, meaningless stuff, like whether or not someone likes another person, up out of proportion!

You really think it's gonna make a negative difference in your life if a guy or girl likes their own gender?

Oh, and kudos to the idiot who said that homosexuals haven't had any contributions to mankind and only have sex for pleasure.

So what, you don't have sex for pleasure? Do you only have sex to reproduce more and more children that'll spread your legacy of hate? And also, when two people have sex, yeah it's for pleasure, but it should also be because two people love each other!

I'm only seventeen and already I'm deigning to live in a world FULL of people who thrive off of ignorance and closed mindedness.


Today's headlines
Why the Pope is visiting Sweden next week
Pope Francis in the Vatican. Photo: AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino

Pope to nail reconciliation agenda to Lutherans' door in southern Sweden.

The Local Recipes
How to make no-knead sourdough bread like a Swede
No-knead sourdough bread. Photo: John Duxbury/Swedish Food

Swedes love their sourdough bread. Food writer John Duxbury shares his favourite Swedish recipe for a no-knead loaf.

Meet Sweden's lonely Donald Trump voter
A Donald Trump campaign button. Photo: Rogelio V Solis/AP

The Local talks to an American Donald Trump supporter on what it is like living in progressive stronghold Sweden.

Forgotten Ingmar Bergman script to be made into a film
It's thought the script was part of an ill-fated collaboration between Bergman (left) and Federico Fellini (right). Photo: AP

Written in 1969, the script is 'up to the standard of his best', according to the Ingmar Bergman Foundation.

Sweden's consumption footprint 'among the worst'
Trucks transporting goods on a Swedish highway. Photo: Fredrik Sandberg/TT

Sweden has been criticized for its unsustainable consumption of the planet's resources in the latest edition of a major WWF study.

Video: How to be Joel Kinnaman for a day
Kinnaman with one of the camera rigs that will allow people inside his head. Photo: Tele2

The Swedish Hollywood actor will strap a camera to his head, stream it live and allow viewers to interact with him this weekend.

Presented by Invest Stockholm
How Stockholm's cold climate boosts creativity
Photo: Ola Ericson/imagebank.sweden.se

Do long, dark winters actually make Swedes more creative and more productive? We spoke to Stockholm startups to find out.

Sweden to keep record-low interest rate in 2017
Sweden's landmark negative interest rate will continue towards 2018. Photo: Anders Wiklund/TT

The Swedish central bank said that it will take longer than expected to reach its inflation target.

Presented by Stockholm University
9 unexpected programmes at Stockholm University
Photo: Niklas Björling

Did you know Stockholm University offers 75 master's programmes taught in English? And some of them are programmes you won't find anywhere else...

Creepy clown messes with the wrong dog walker in Sweden
Not the clown in the story. Photo: Pontus Lundahl/TT

A dog helped its owner fight off a creepy clown chasing the pair in southern Sweden.

Sponsored Article
One expat's strategy for making friends in Stockholm
People-watching: October 26th
Sponsored Article
Nordic fashion in focus at Stockholm University
Sweden cuts 2016 refugee forecast
Is Game of Thrones coming to Sweden?
Blog updates

6 October

10 useful hjälpverb (The Swedish Teacher) »

"Hej! I think the so-called “hjalpverb” (auxiliary verbs in English) are a good way to get…" READ »


8 July

Editor’s blog, July 8th (The Local Sweden) »

"Hej readers, It has, as always, been a bizarre, serious and hilarious week in Sweden. You…" READ »

Sponsored Article
Stockholm: creating solutions to global challenges
Property of the week: Kungsholmen, Stockholm
Sponsored Article
Last chance to vote absentee in the US elections
Will Swedes soon be looking for fairtrade porn?
The Local Voices
'I simply don’t believe in nationality'
Why we're convinced Game of Thrones is based on Sweden
Sponsored Article
This is Malmö: Football capital of Sweden
People-watching: October 21st-23rd
Sponsored Article
Where is the Swedish music industry heading?
Fury at plans that 'threaten the IB's survival' in Sweden
Analysis & Opinion
Are we just going to let half the country die?
Sponsored Article
Why you should 'grab a chair' on Stockholm's tech scene
Angry elk chases Swede up a lamp post
Sponsored Article
Swedish for programmers: 'It changed my life'
The Local Voices
'Alienation in Sweden feels better: I find myself a stranger among scores of aliens'
People-watching: October 20th
Sponsored Article
Top 7 tips to help you learn Swedish
The Local Voices
A layover at Qatar airport brought this Swedish-Kenyan couple together - now they're heading for marriage
Sponsored Article
‘Extremism can't be defeated on the battlefield alone’
Swede punches clown that scared his grandmother
Sponsored Article
Stockholm: creating solutions to global challenges
Fans throw flares and enter pitch in Swedish football riot
Sponsored Article
Why you should 'grab a chair' on Stockholm's tech scene
Could Swedish blood test solve 'Making a Murderer'?
Sponsored Article
Where is the Swedish music industry heading?
Swedish school to build gender neutral changing room
Sponsored Article
One expat's strategy for making friends in Stockholm
People-watching: October 14th-16th
Sponsored Article
Nordic fashion in focus at Stockholm University
Man in Sweden assaulted by clowns with broken bottle
Nobel Prize 2016: Literature
Watch the man who discovered Bob Dylan react to his Nobel Prize win
Record numbers emigrating from Sweden
People-watching: October 12th
The Local Voices
'Swedish startups should embrace newcomers' talents - there's nothing to fear'
How far right are the Sweden Democrats?
The Local Voices
Syria's White Helmets: The Nobel Peace Prize would have meant a lot, but pulling a child from rubble is the greatest reward
jobs available