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Foreign students turn their backs on Sweden

Peter Vinthagen Simpson · 1 Apr 2011, 10:14

Published: 01 Apr 2011 10:14 GMT+02:00

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For other international courses the number of enrollments has fallen by 64 percent, according to the statistics published by the Agency for Higher Education Services (Verket för högskoleservice - VHS) on Thursday.

A total of 8,075 people have been offered places on international Masters degree programmes at Swedish universities ahead of the autumn term 2011, while a further 1,944 have been accepted to other international courses.

"It is difficult to see what this means as we don't yet know how many will pay in their fees and sign up to the courses," Andreas Sandberg at VHS told The Local on Friday.

"What we can say is that the number of applications has declined - by 73 and 86 percent respectively - and the number of those offered places has declined," he said.

Sandberg explained that one of the purposes of introducing the fees was to cut the number of frivolous applications.

"That the proportion of those accepted to places indicates that the purpose has been achieved," he said, adding that it was too early to draw any conclusions on whether this meant a higher standard of student was applying.

"We have to wait on the statistics of those who have actually paid their fees and signed up," he said.

The effect of the introduction of the fees on applications from non-EU and EES students was expected, VHS said, citing the experience from Denmark and the Netherlands after having taken a similar step.

Story continues below…

Fees at Swedish universities will from the autumn 2011 range from a minimum of 100,000 kronor ($16,000) per annum to around 230,000 at top seats of learning such as University">Lund University.

Peter Vinthagen Simpson (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

11:59 April 1, 2011 by TheOriginalBlackMan
Why come to a country where there are so many negatives when it comes to learning and residing there?

Sweden has little housing, no nightlife, very few beautiful women (even though the propaganda says the opposite) and a population that speaks incomprehensible English (Swedes can't bear not to stress the first vowel).

When the Universities were free it was an exotic and wise choice to attend a Swedish University; a choice that may cost you living expenses, yet tuition and living expenses in a country where many employers outside of Sweden would have a hard time pronouncing the names of many of the Universities is just not worth it.

Some times even though you think you are the best, numbers, which never lie, always prove the opposite.
12:13 April 1, 2011 by occassional
Germany was listed in an article on the BBC (no less), as being tops for foreign students. Why even bother to come to Sweden where the local version of English seems to be a colloquial version of Globish rubbish at best. Oh, plus the fees now.

12:16 April 1, 2011 by Roy E
It's fascinating how a price can expose the true value of something.

It's also fascinating to witness the degree to which 'free' acts as a magnet for freeloaders.
12:25 April 1, 2011 by local-aam
I am afraid, the fake students who take admission just to enter into Europe but not to study would be more benefited with the introduction of the tuition fees. As these people would get more acceptance than before with the reduction of the total number of applicants. A big portion of the genuine students would not choose Sweden because of the tuition fees. On the other hand more fake students will try to take admission and come into Europe. My experience says, fake students will pay even more (as an investment to get into Europe) if they find that this way is quicker, easier and not so risky. The Swedish authority should critically think about this issue.
12:26 April 1, 2011 by Taxlady
For occassional:

FYI Swedish is a lower German dialect. Most Swedes either do not know this or reject the idea.

Does anyone know if the German master's degree is free or must foreign students pay tuition?
12:31 April 1, 2011 by occassional

I don't need your information. Yes the German degrees are free.
12:40 April 1, 2011 by bolababu
As much as i think Sweden has done right to charge tuition, i also think they do not have the capacity to compete with top-student destinations like the UK and Germany, ..tuition fees for a country like Sweden should have been much less than charged in those countries, ..230 000sek per annum for a swedish degree, for now is just ridiculous.
12:41 April 1, 2011 by IntricateMind
Please do not come to Germany if your looking for free stuff. You pathetic people need to stay in your own countries. And for Sweden, finally did something good for themselves for introducing the fees. Bravo! Now stop mass immigration so that all crime activity comes back to normal. (Pre-mass immigration statistics)

And as for Swedish nightlife and language..well again very ignorant comments. The nightlife is superb..that is if you can get into the right places. Your obviously in the ghetto "originalblackman". I found tons of beautiful women all over Sweden every time I am there. And as for the English that Swedes speak? Well outside of the European English speaking countries, Swedes do speak great English. I have been all over Europe and the Scandinavian countries are great for English! I currently live in Germany and believe me the English here is horrible...Everyone talks like Arnold. And believe me, If you plan on coming to Germany to live....HA! You better know your friggin German or you will understand the word Auslander...HA!
12:57 April 1, 2011 by koolwind
I think this is good move from Swedish govt. Because mostly student thinks of a bright future after completion of their degree here, but now it is even hard to get odd job here. at least they will try for good in their own countries, and that will surely helpful for their native countries. I will suggest to all paying student that invest that money in their own countries rather than paying here.

if they are not going to allow you be a part of them, then why you are wasting your money and time.
13:05 April 1, 2011 by Elias06
@original blackman, your comment is very unrespectful...However i find it normal that foreign students cant afford paying 230 000 kroner a year jjust for the university fees... they would rather go to canada and the US where it cost 230 000 per year (ALL INCLUDED) , the swedish governement knew that before this reform which makes me think that it was their goal to stop enrolling foreign students at the swedish universities... its their right after all
13:53 April 1, 2011 by Darxidewarrior
@IntricateMind : why r u talking with such hate and anger? we r not looking for free stuff and i'm thankful to Swedish people for free education. there are nice people who care about humanity and most of them helped me from beginning. i will always remember my landlord (very nice woman )and my respectful teachers. i think you didn't read bbc article well. it's world of competition and globalization and countries with better understanding of this competition will have better economy and better life (just look Canada, Australia and even UK ). do you think students , educated people are criminal? do you think it is hard for a master student to immigrate to Canada or Australia? what do you mean by term of "Orginal Black man" . your comment is ridiculous .i rather to come back to my beautiful country than live among minority racists like u . it's right of Swedish to stop free education and i really like most of them (non-racist). i hope , you will have better life without criminals like me.
13:58 April 1, 2011 by orndumma
Its a good thing that Sweden introduced theses fees.

When I was doing Masters, I came across students who didnot know ABC of science but had got admitted in reputed swedish universities. Because of fees, its sure that only genuine students will apply and pursue their studies.

Though 100000 SEK is a lot from my personal opinion. 25000 to 50000 SEK would have been reasonable....!!
13:58 April 1, 2011 by benew123
The reason why not apply Sweden after tuition fee introduced:

- high living expenses

- mediocre academic credentials

- no job available after graduation if you do not speak Swedish

- poor weather

- boring life

14:04 April 1, 2011 by eppie
quote Sandberg explained that one of the purposes of introducing the fees was to cut the number of frivolous applications.


If that was the case why not ask a few thousand crowns. With this new system what you are doing is making it only possible for rich kids to come and study here. I mean if you want that that is your decission but don't lie and come up with some weird explanation.


Swedes speak better english than americans, australians and south africans.....only the english top them.
14:39 April 1, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Darxidewarrior LOL! No hate and anger here...I just call it like I see it. Did not mean to hurt anyones feelings...we are all adults here right? My opinions come from experience, statistics and above all, my many Swedish friends who speak with me about such topics. And no, they are not racist at all. On the contrary, they are typical Swedes. But they see what has happened in the past years and it has never been the same. This is their words :)

And an understanding of competition will give a country a better economy and better life? Oh man I am sorry for you....It takes much more than just understanding to boost an economy. I will leave that one alone because wow....

And as for my Original black man comment....well why dont you go back to the very first post and read what this person wrote....and do not forget to check his name ;)
15:11 April 1, 2011 by Swedesmith
You get what you pay for.
15:16 April 1, 2011 by IntricateMind
I agree with Swedesmith....That is what you call "competition" Darxidewarrior ;)
15:23 April 1, 2011 by TheOriginalBlackMan
eppie@, Update….. American English is contemporary English. Speaking English as a person would who resides in London (the Eastern Asia peninsula) would be analogous to someone speaking Latin. Not only is it dated it's a dead language or in this case accent.

Indeed I have found, after living in Sweden for quite some time, that Swedish people speak English with much too much emotion and emphasis on stressing vowels, a bad habit of the british as well.
15:36 April 1, 2011 by Darxidewarrior
@ intricateMind : genius , human resource is important factor in economy. please read this. it's good for you to understand human resource factor in economy.http://www.china-europe-usa.com/level_4_data/hum/011_7b.htm

don't be sorry for me.

i think , those people that you call them criminal have built Europe after WWII and if you call students criminal, i have never seen such people here in goteborg in Chalmers,if you have seen them or ur friend ,please tell me. haven't you ever seen any European to do smth wrong, if not i can show u a lot even prime misters, presidents , party leaders, please think rationally.
15:53 April 1, 2011 by gl245p2
I think there is so much criticism of Sweden and Swedish people. From my experience, I find them very helpful and gentle people. Since my family moved from UK to Sweden. In 2007, I cannot stress how everything works much better then UK and Europe. Our personal numbers, residential status was sorted in no time.

Everything is running smooth, Kids can now speak perfect Swedish and myself I find that Swedish language is lovely and nice to here. If you have Swedish residency you still do not need to pay anything which is great for my kids if you compare with UK it is very different. Now fees in UK are up £9000 per year. However, I do not taking advantage of the system. As I am paying my taxes and contributing to the local economy.

It is give and take situation. If you take something you have to give as well. For that Swedish people will be very willing to help you and to understand you. I would recommend anybody who is willing to give something back to come to Sweden. Schools are good, national health care excellent, life for family is excellent. Safe, secured where kids can develop proper and have high living standards. Trust me if you make effort and learn some Swedish it is perfect place for learning and family
16:01 April 1, 2011 by Darxidewarrior
i agree with gl245p2.
16:14 April 1, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Darxidewarrior - Who really cares for the demography Human population? This is old news man. Germany has been dealing with this for some time and also experience the same problems with immigrants. Damed if you do damed if you dont. You bring them (immigrants) in to help the welfare system but with it comes the trash and crime. But Europe is old and knowledgeable. Such as the money that Sweden gives per extra child in a family. So it actually pays now to propagate in Sweden. Other countries within Europe are following these incentives as well. Europe is industrious and strong. They will survive without you people.

As for those who rebuilt Europe after WWII were the people within their own countries...trust me. My grandfather was there. And the Americans who helped rebuild Germany. Now I am not saying that immigrants are bad people....There are some wonderful souls out there. But when they do not want to integrate then huddle up with their own and bulid your own churches and speak your own language then no. Time to kick them the hell out. Those are the ones I am speaking of. Again foreign students are not criminals nor are all immigrants. But just read the statistics will you. Rape and murder was practically unheard of in Sweden 20 years ago until they started with mass immigration. And read about the nationality and races of those who commit these crimes.

Again this was for those who were crying about Sweden's Uni fees. Those who cry about it just leave and go home...thats all I am saying. No one is holding you back...if you do not like it then leave. If its better from where you came from (your beautiful country) then buy a ticket and head right on home. So easy...

Now I can recall a very sad recent story about a girl named Elin Krantz from Goteborg. It really breaks my heart and wish her killer could be tried in America for his crimes rather than Sweden. That way he can get the death penalty rather than Sweden's lenient and soft sentencing. Anyways, May God bless Elin's soul.

Was nice chatting Darxidewarrior!
16:27 April 1, 2011 by MarkWords
Swedish Policy makers doing great job. They are kicking out of the country the graduates (Masters and PHDs) and offering work permits to uneducated, unskilled, rejected assylum seeker. Depriving poor non-EU students from education...

And they think whatever they are doing is quit rational approach...

Let see what next....
16:55 April 1, 2011 by Swedesmith
Weren't the Swedish Policy makers educated at Swedish Universities? Just saying.
17:03 April 1, 2011 by unseen

an ass, that how i see you :P
17:03 April 1, 2011 by Darxidewarrior
@ IntricateMind : it's not news man and it doesn't matter it is old or new .i really don't like to continue useless chatting with u but i have a German friend and he has completely opposite opinion and again it's Swedish right to do what ever they want. i don't know why all this crimes are happened in Europe by immigrant, USA and Canada should be full of rapist. try to think rationally not ethnically. good luck.
17:11 April 1, 2011 by RobinHood
Surely hordes of international students haven't been coming to Sweden all these years for a free ride; that can't be true.

Someone give me the real explanation why student applications have fallen by up to 86% in a year.
17:11 April 1, 2011 by SouthAfrican_in_Sweden
@eppie I know this is off-topic but how did you measure who speaks better English? Is there some statistic you have or are you a linguist with some papers published on this subject. I do think that originalblackman is a troll, who has probably not even set foot in Africa and merely says things to provoke people. But don't get dragged in and make arrogant statements about a whole nation's language skills, which you can't quantify.
17:28 April 1, 2011 by Göteborgare
Spending on students is always a good cause where you know where you spending, compared to huge spending made on refugees.
17:32 April 1, 2011 by here for the summer
This is a stupid headline and article. The real questions are about the number of paying students. Have those numbers increased ? If so this is a huge victory and the number of non paying students from countries where Swedish students don't have reciprocal privileges or won't or can't go is irrelevant.
17:46 April 1, 2011 by sallysees
I believe the problem of getting any kind of job wherever you live in the world is increasingly more and more difficult, and even an often expensive degree will no longer save you.

back long before companies got totally greedy and they started "outsourcing" the jobs of the working class, people immigrated to Sweden in waves and jumped at the jobs of manual labor, but now the jobs of the educated classes are also increasingly being outsourced too, to places like India, where chip designer earns 15 times less than here in Europe.

So, it makes perfect sense that some of today's students might look upon university as a kind of "job" as a way of living and sustaining some semblance of life in a very rough and difficult world, and so its not about Sweden, but its more about finding the best deal financially for themselves? If not here, then somewhere else?
17:55 April 1, 2011 by Nilspet
It is sad but true that Sweden is no longer attractive to talented foreign students especially from outside the EU. Here is why:

1) The fee is too high for the quality i.e. cheaper and better elsewhere. UK, France, Germany, Spain has more recognized universities than Sweden has.

2) Cost of living is relatively high and it is very difficult to get parttime jobs.

3) Immigration law is very bad for non EU people to come and study here (on student visa). It treats non EU students as inferiors to other groups. You cannot even remain here after your graduation. Why would you spend 1 million SEK here for 3 years and then you cannot even stay here to establish yourself or get a decent job. Why should someone who has spent 1 million SEK go get a job at McDonalds in order to just get a work permit. That the student permit lasts for 1 year max is trouble some but it is worse when it takes 4 months just to renew it and in the meantime you are locked up in Sweden.

4) Sweden's propagandas for being neutral and peaceful is no longer an attraction. Sweden is involved in 2 wars actively .. Af-stan and Libya.

5) It is very hard to create a network here compared with e.g. in the US and other bigger countries. I was in Spain for 1 month and I made 10+ friends. In Sweden it took the whole year to make 3 friends. Swedes are generally reserved, and towards non-EU and nonwhite ... it is probably impossible. We Swedes admit that it is true!

But I disagree with the first comment that there were very few beautiful women in Sweden. There are LOTS of pretty women in Sweden but sadly they do not have the attitude as women. Too much feminism here....
18:03 April 1, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Darxidewarrior - Geez man I dont understand what the hell your saying...your English is bad. Good thing you did not need to pay for it right ;)

@ Unseen - I love you too!
18:07 April 1, 2011 by Makaveli
In fair honesty, Swedish tax payers have for several years paid for the education of thousands of international students and i do appreciate that. If the country now chooses to implement tuition fees for non-EU students, then we have to respect that. This country isn't the first to implement such policies anyway. If government intention was to filter out the fakes by imposing fees, then am afraid they just might have made the situation worse. There are those who would stop at nothing (not even an application fee and first tuition installment) to get into Europe. If this was however a covert excuse to filter and keep away all those poor student from third world countries, then i'd say its working as planned. I seriously doubt the relatively high fees implemented here would put Sweden on an equal playing field with other countries that host top universities of the world.
18:18 April 1, 2011 by RobinHood

Thank you for your joke explanation why non-EU student applications have fallen by up to 86%. I especially liked the bit about it costing one million SEK to study in Sweden for three years. The bit that enrollments declined by up to 86% because applicants guessed months ago that Sweden would contribute to, a then unthinkable, war in Libya was great too. The best bit, by far, was that applications have declined so much because Swedish women have the wrong attitude. That was brilliant!

I very much look forward to reading next year's April 1 post.
18:18 April 1, 2011 by Nilspet

I am afraid that your argument reflects only a fraction of the whole truth. Sweden and Swedish immigration in fact foster and enbrace asylum seekers and non Europeans. You can easily settle down in Sweden if you live sambo with a local and after 4 years you could even become a Swedish citizen. As for asylum seekers ...if your asylum application is rejected you can still remain here if you can get a job (whatever) and after 2 years you will be granted a permanent residence permit. So it is not about trying to stop people coming into Europe because Sweden is inviting lots of them but just not through its higher education which is the backbone of sustainable development.

In any case I totally agree with you that " the relatively high fees implemented here would put Sweden on an equal playing field with other countries that host top universities of the world."

It is fine with me that we charge non EU students (but should apply to all kinds of non-EU citizens regardless of the type of visa they hold). The reward should be that they get something better than when it was free education. E.g. Denmark will give you a green card if you have studied in their country for a certain number of years especially in the area they need and it is not free to study there. However most Danish programs are cheaper than the Swedish ones.
18:26 April 1, 2011 by Iraniboy
Why most posters here can't conduct a proper argument and they rather fight and spread hatred?! When you read these comments you don't feel like you are in Sweden.
18:28 April 1, 2011 by Nilspet

Yes it is the 1st of April but that I did not include the beauty of Swedish women in my argument above ;).
18:39 April 1, 2011 by Catalunya
I totally agree with Iraniboy and also with SouthAfrican_in_Sweden

I'm from Spain and I feel myself discriminated in Europe as we are members of 2nd or 3th category. Here we don't spent all our time in "Siesta" and wine! And when an Spanish asks for a studyplacement in Europe universities is used to be rejected, even in the Erasmus Framework.

And about the fact that ones speak better English that others, I think that the main thing is to understand each other, don't you?

I have also read that one of the reasons to not to go to Sweden is because women are ugly, I am a woman and to say that, a part from being an insult, is a completely foolish motive to choose any county. Think carefully before to write such those things.

I know very well Sweden as I've worked in a hospital there and I envy your professionalism and your warmth.
20:11 April 1, 2011 by burlison
International Graduate-level education is a money-maker used to subsidize the local Universities, I would think. You get some foreigners paying full price to prop up the less profitable programs to keep the costs contained in the local market. Why is this a mystery?
20:19 April 1, 2011 by johnny1939
For a good education w/ world wide acceptance go to the US or stay in your own country and get it. Why even bother w/ my little country in the north. We do ok w/ what we have got and need not share w/ anyone else that does not appreciate us.

It really amazes me that so many of you that seem to hate my country even bother w/ reading "the Local".
20:35 April 1, 2011 by Nilspet

I can tell you why people read the Local (for whatever reason) ... this local "Local" is the most global news channel from Sweden :)
20:40 April 1, 2011 by Darxidewarrior
@IntricateMind: i wrote it fast and i didn't pay attention. I don't think u can understand anything except hate.
21:09 April 1, 2011 by dunce
There is no hard evidence that your country gets any real benefit from these students, only emphatic opinions unsupported by any facts by those who look at their own country and its people and see flaws. The claim that natives benefit from exposure to foreign students is more politically correct bovine fecal matter.
21:34 April 1, 2011 by aleferna
Well, being a student from KTH, I understand why they did this, I had a lot of classmates that came the first days and would never show up to class and would always be trying to cheat. That really made me angry, I came here for the free masters as the rest, now I'm trying to get a phd position at ki, I can't say anything bad about sweden except its too dark in winter... but comming to study to Sweden was one of the best choices I've made. The experience has been wonderfull. I just wish that instead of going "all in" with 50,000sek they would have been more demanding of international master students, you fail a course you pay it or you go back, that would have been fine by me... If you pass a course you don't pay it? Something of the sort, I mean there has to be a better way than to loose all your students, I mean the already shut down the master program I took because of this.
21:57 April 1, 2011 by rleith
Eppie says, "Swedes speak better english than americans, australians and south africans.....only the english top them."

You need to take courses in both linguistics and logic. Your ignorance of both subjects is only too evident from your statement.
22:30 April 1, 2011 by pedrex
Having studied at high ranking universities in 6 different countries, I was happy with the comparable quality of Lund University. Having said that, I would not recommend Sweden as a place to study for most people. Ultimately, the hidden costs of studying in Sweden are the very poor job prospects in Sweden during and after the degree. This makes it a far more expensive and risky decision for most foreigners. A 100,000+ SEK tuition fee is just too much to ask when one can not rely on working during the degree.
22:54 April 1, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Darxidewarrior - What I understand are the stats......

You keep talking of hate...and after reading this below...you better believe that I hate.

The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just over twenty years

"According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants.

The actual number is thus probably even higher than what the authorities are reporting now, as it doesn't include second generation immigrants. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm, who has investigated violent crimes in Svea high court, found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents."

Two out of three rapes committed by immigrants

Published August 25, 2010 at 18:24

THE 2010 ELECTION. Immigrants are behind two thirds of the rapes resulted in a conviction in 2009. Half of the rapists are themselves born abroad, and Iraqis are highly overrepresented.

It was Sweden Democrats who today presented a statement in which it has reviewed all rape convictions in the last year when the rape victim was over 15 years. The report says 48% of those convicted were born abroad. Also includes second-generation immigrants, immigrants' rising share of the sentences for rape of two-thirds say the Sweden Democrats.

- Sweden Democrats chose to seek out all district court judgments in which lawsuits lodged and the Court handed down in 2009, where the victims were adults and in which it was rape, it is said in the statement.

In the case of aggravated rape were foreign-born behind 64% of all cases that led to the conviction last year. Sweden Democrats also notes that immigrants over-represented in terms of rape appears to have increased since the National Crime Prevention Council (National Council) 2005 report. The report was based on reported rapes between 1997 and 2001.
23:21 April 1, 2011 by mojofat

"There is no hard evidence that your country gets any real benefit from these students,"

Yes, there is. In order to qualify for a student visa one must prove (with bank statements) that they have ~7000sek a month for living expenses, but as we all know it costs a bit more than that to actually live here. Given that int'l students are limited by both the terms of their student visa and by cultural factors (e.g., the language), it's safe to assume that in the vast majority of cases int'l students are dumping loads of money into the local university economies while not taking one swedish job away. This includes goods, services, and taxes.

Further, with this significant of a drop in int'l student enrollment prepare to see programs cut and teachers laid off because there simply isn't the same level of demand. Where these teachers go, I don't know, but it seems to be a logical fallout from all of this.

Finally, approximately 10% of all new companies started in sweden are started by foreigners (non-EU)...which includes high paying industries such as software, which, in-turn, employ swedish people and pay swedish taxes. While I think it's completely fair and reasonable to expect int'l students to pay tuition, to suggest they contribute nothing at all is a bit exaggerated.
00:07 April 2, 2011 by LeoKinmann

Let me educate you in some social science as well as math. Sweden literally, NEVER had tuition fee until now. There has been no tuition fee for the Swedes as well as non-Swedes and foreign students. Tuition fee never existed in this country before. About the 1 million SEK in 3 years, how about some mathematics? 230k SEK per year for tuition, and 7000 SEK per month for living expenses make around 330 SEK per year. Take that and multiply with 3. What do you get?

I know lots of International master students in Uppsala. Most of them are from China, India, Pakistan or Iran. Everyone of them told me that if not for the free tuition, they would never come to Sweden. The education totally sucks compared to e.g. UK, US and Australia. Furthermore, you got hidden costs as language, lack of job opportunity and so on. Charging this much fee is not wise unless you want to see less foreign applicants. I know master programs in Linkoping already laid off due to lack of applicants. More are on the way.

On the other side, introducing the fee removes the only non-academic leverage

of the Swedish schools. Hopefully then people will see how Sweden is on the international level. This could be the most difficult first step towards improving the quality of education as well as social conditions for everybody involved.
02:40 April 2, 2011 by zerotolerancenow
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
02:55 April 2, 2011 by Jay777
this series of comments shows us, How boring is life in Sweden...people are almost like machines in Sweden, and Swedish blondes are over rated they only have interest in you if you are from a rich or touristic country, guys will never become your friends, I haven't seen a single foreign student who has a Swedish friend. Forget about jobs because if Swedes cannot mix with foreigners they won't give any jobs until they are very needy. Living in Sweden will make you lazy because you can do everything faster from home on internet

For living Sweden sucks, for study it is going to be

After losing international students Swedes will become more lazy, boring and alone.

Anyways thanks for the education till now...Sweden
06:25 April 2, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ zerotolerancenow - Thanks buddy!

@ Jay777 - quote "Swedish blondes are over rated they only have interest in you if you are from a rich or touristic country" ... Same is said about most hot and beautiful women from all over the world man..LOL!
06:42 April 2, 2011 by Darxidewarrior
@ IntricateMind : genius . thus, International students are not criminal. that's enough for me. we don't talk about asylum seekers.asylum seekers have another sad story and it is irrelevant here. i see u & ur favorite party as "national socialist German workers' party".
07:28 April 2, 2011 by Smiling Canuk
Duh - tuition is not longer free and its not an English speaking country. Plus its an expensive place to live.
08:51 April 2, 2011 by Uggla
This only means one thing! The rich once again get what ever they want fed to them with a silver spoon and the poorer less fortunate folk get the chance to better their lives ripped from their hands. Not to mention one must prove a solid sorce of income to come to school here so I hardly think that most were frivolous applications. I do however think that the Swedish goverment LOVES to sap money anywhere possible. For example T.V./radio tax even though HOURS commericals are already paying for your T.V. costs. Ha ha..

Good work guys! :|
09:47 April 2, 2011 by technoviking
@ Jay777

"Swedish blondes are over rated they only have interest in you if you are from a rich or touristic country"

I love all the immigrants who come on here trying to bag on Swedish women...

Just because they won't give you the time of day doesn't mean they are cold or "un-feminine".

They just DON'T LIKE people like YOU.

So, maybe you should go back to whatever broke hellhole you came from and we'll keep our top standard of living and awesome women.

I'm sure it is very lonely here for you. Goodbye.
10:41 April 2, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Darkidewarrior - The only party I like are the Swedish disco parties with beautiful strong, intelligent, perfect English speaking Swedish women who are always absolutely lovely with me all the time. I think you and Jay777 need to go out on a date you losers.
10:57 April 2, 2011 by hammad674
I am a Non-EU international student in Sweden, and honestly speaking nobody have right to say in Fee introduction for Non-Eu student except Swedish People and their Government. No doubt there are some problems in living in Sweden for Internationals but it is the way, Life goes on. We are here, taking a European degree, (A million thanks to Swedes) thats the biggest investment for our career. I took it as an investment, unfortunately i have to move after finishing study here and wouldn't be able to contribute here but thanks to Swedes for spending on me. .
13:04 April 2, 2011 by shimud
It was long over due. Many entered Europe disguised as students. None of such are expected to think about it now. Paying a hefty fee implies all doors are closed for crooks. Those who are able, qualified and can sustain the rigors of a demanding educational program or course will still be eager because they know their worth. Though I am not a European myself but I have observed it while I stayed in Sweden. Less then 10% of my class mates were able to find a job in Sweden just because they were not competent enough. They got admission, didn't pay any fee, most of them worked in Denmark, Spain, Greece or Sweden on white collar jobs (not related to what ever they were studying) or have returned back to where they came from. The result was creation of a bad reputation for Swedish universities. This is a very good decision.
17:42 April 2, 2011 by Darxidewarrior
@IntricateMind : it's right of Swedish people to choose their system of education, it is not my business and i really appreciate them for my free education. man , you are really retard . what a great honour for you that Swedish women speak to such retarded person. haha, you speak like a child.
19:19 April 2, 2011 by Maddeshusband
Let´s close the swedish education system completely for all non-EU/EES citizens.

They do not contribute at all to this country, never did.

Bye bye.
22:19 April 2, 2011 by lili2010
How about the scholarships that Swedish gov't gives to students that can't afford the fees? As to Swede's english, they speak it as if it is their mother tongue. The only person who says they have poor english must be a person who doesn't know what fluent english is. What is amazing about their english is not only the fluency, it is also that they don't use it often but when the need comes they switch from Swedish to excellent English with out any problem.

For me Swedes are heros, so intelligent,so respectful, so beautiful (both men and women),peaceful,................Please leave them alone, let them do what ever they like in their own country. I looooooooooooooooove Swedes a lot! I wish I had their gene!
22:26 April 2, 2011 by Descartes
One doesn't need tuition fees for making sure that the students are adequately prepared for university studies. For the purpose, passing of admission tests like GRE, TOEFL, GRE, SAT required in "not Mickey Mouse" universities in USA, Canada etc.
15:37 April 3, 2011 by Nilspet

Your argument is ENTIRELY wrong. Non-EU/EES contribute A GREAT DEAL to Sweden not only to an academic sector but all fields from agriculture to automobile to aircraft/military technology. As a local I can only tell you that we must be thankful that many have chosen to come here to study and still have the will to contribute. Sadly we do not treat them well enough. We treat asylum seekers and immigrants through marriage better .. so we will have to pay the price one day.

Maybe you can look at "Sony-Ericsson", "Volvo" and soon "SAAB" ...

can you smelll non-EU people in the game?
18:14 April 3, 2011 by jimmy1988
@Nilspet. I agree with you in some aspects, foreign students specially European is true they give their contribute to Sweden in some aspects too. But soon or later this was gonna happen because isn´t fair for tax payers to pay all of that, and today not many foreign students find a job or if they find probably on a mcdonald´s, subway restaurants whining a bad salary.
23:20 April 3, 2011 by njam
hello , what do you mean by Non Eu have nothing to contribute to this country?

Who are those doing all the ``odd jobs.´swedish will not do. For example cleaning,care givers to the ageing population etc. Sweden is clean because of this people
10:33 April 4, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Njam - I think what they mean is if you look at Sweden and all other European countries as a whole and the histories and accomplishments of these countries compared to say for example's sake Africa, then you can maybe understand. Yes life may have started outside of Europe but it is within Europe where real life as we know it flourished. Architecture, Medicine, Science, Art, Quantum physics, Aviation, Automotive, Industry and just about everything else imaginable. And it still continues to this day. And to continue the example, what has say the native Africans done? Then they come to Sweden and suck out tax payers money and then rape poor innocent women and girls. Sorry but no!

Not saying all non EU people are bad! Japanese are very intelligent and very strong workers as is those from Croatia, Canada, USA, Australia and those who have done something for themselves and their countries. I respect them as much as I respect the Swededs. But those countries where people blow themselves up for 13 virgins uhh maybe its better to just stay in your own country... Im just saying.
15:28 April 4, 2011 by willowsdad
Sweden is unfriendly to smokers and, as has been pointed out, lacks nightlife. That keeps me away.
20:54 April 4, 2011 by Cutimap
I come from a developing country/non-EU and got my Master degree in Sweden some years ago. The reason I went to Sweden because it was free tuition (for a poor student like me) and I hoped a Swedish degree would sound great in my country.


The head-hunters in my country asked me "Do you get only a Diploma? That doesn't mean much!", because on the paper I got from University stated big and clear on top "DIPLOMA" and only underneath there were some tiny lines mentioning "completion of Master of Science". But to the head-hunters, the degree is still only a diploma.

When I came to Canada and got my credits transfered, my Swedish Master degree is equipvalent to "1-year training" in Canada (they do not even have a name to call it)

With these views of other countries about Swedish degree, no wonder students withdraw from Sweden; once they have to pay such a huge amount like this. With similar amount, they/I will definitely go to other "known" countries like UK, US, Australia, Germany, etc. where the degrees are more accepted internationally and the chances to find job after graduation is much bigger.
10:45 April 5, 2011 by Nilspet

You are actually on the point. Whilst Swedish education is of high quality (at least according to us in Sweden), its reputation abroad for education is not that great (remembering that Sweden is a nation of 9 millions only hence it can never be better known than Germany, Russia, UK, ....).

I know Asian people who received PhD degrees from Sweden having trouble to convince that their quality is better than those from the UK, US, Australia by playing the university ranking card. It does not quite work. Trust me that a degree from a top-100 university in Sweden is not regarded more superior than a degree from a top-150 university in the US, UK, Russia or Australia. One thing for sure .. the English proficiency of those graduating from English speaking countries is in general much better. No companies would consider "Swedish" very useful if you look for jobs in Taiwan, Malaysia for example. And Sweden is not a big and dynamic market compared to those big countries.

Having said that ... we have made a big mistake by introducing expensive tuition fees when

we are not of the same standard as those well-known in the education market. I dare say thatin the coming decade university degrees from BRIC countries are more attractive to multinational firms, organizations as well as governments than from top-100 Swedish universities. The world out there knows what the world will be like in 20 years from now. If we wanna be a part of the game, we'd better invest rather than hope that someone will come and invest (in educating themselves here at a very high cost).
16:43 April 5, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ - Nilspet who the hell would want to got to taiwan or malaysia anyways if not only for a holiday??

You also say that the world knows what it will be like out there in 20 years? Do you know? If so please enlighten me because I am ignorant as to what will be of the world in 20 years. But what I do know is that it was good of Sweden to pull the plug on free education. You say if Sweden is going to be part of the game, its better to invest....Invest how? Is Sweden not investing in herself by not spending so much money on this free education? This way Sweden can put this money towards better use elsewhere. That is investing in your country! Not giving it away free to all these people who the ultimately end up leaving anyways....This is called being in the game. Sweden is changing for the better and its pathetic how people cry. Then leave...so simple :)
18:21 April 5, 2011 by Nilspet

You can be very emotional about this but it will not make anything better. Sweden is going to lose more than gain by introducing TOO high fees for non-EU students to come study at higher education institutions. I have looked into some data which indicates that what I was saying was right.

1) The world in the future (say 20 years from now) is not about US, EU ..it will be about BRIC countries and newly industrialized nations mostly in Asia, S. Africa and even some in Africa.

2) That non-EU students leave Sweden is because we treat very badly..we are the one that kick them out. Many want to remain here but it is impossible for them. Non-EU students are not more stupid than EU students..most of them that have studied here are actually very good, gifted if you will.

3) You are very badly informed about Malaysia and Taiwan. These countries do have multinational forms. A lot of electronics are produced in Malaysia and many innovations in IT and communications originate from Taiwan. You simply know too little I think. Do you know HTC? Chips, RAM, hard disk inside your PC or notebook are probably Taiwanese. How about S. Koera and Singapore?

Many firms there want internationally educated workers...imagine 4 candidates as follows: 1) Mr. Lee from China with an engineering from Australia 2) Mr. Mukanov from Russia with an engineering degree from Moscow Uni. 3) Mr. Andersson from Sweden with an engineering degree from MIT, and 4) Mr. Rao from India with an engineering degree from KTH...who do you think is most wanted by Samsung to be based in Singapore? Do not tell me you do not know Samsung. It is most likely Mr. Andersson from Sweden with an MIT degree unless Mr. Rao from India is willing to do the same work for 50% less in salary. This is because MIT is better than KTH .. not only that it is more well known too.

Do you think it makes sense that KTH charges international students as much as MIT does?

4) I have not said that we should provide free education to foreign students. In fact we should charge even EU students because some EU countries do charge Swedish students e.g. France, UK, ... However since we are not as great as US, UK, Aussie or even Germany in this business we should charge far less as to attract students who are good enough and can afford. We must also treat them better than we treat other kinds of immigrants in this country.
12:58 April 6, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Nilspet - Do not confuse my passion for not liking idiot and the troublesome immigrants for being emotional. Its funny when people speak truth that they get called emotional. I just tell it like it is and if I hurt your feelings in the process, well then grow up. You would never be able to hold a spot in politics if your so soft....

1) The world in 20 years will continue to revolve around the USA and will only get stronger. Not so much around the EU or other countries. As always, the only significant ally in this region is Japan and S.Korea. Everyone else is there because of cheap labor costs. Could you even think for a second what would happen to China and others if the USA and EU decided to pull out and manufacture in their own countries rather than abroad? Bye bye china....

2) Its good that the non EU people leave because they are treated badly. Why be somewhere if your not wanted right?? But its funny how, If I recall correctly, something like 60% + immigrants are now leaving in just one year due to these educational fees? Seems as if people were in it for a free ride if you ask me! Otherwise they would pay! Bye bye free loaders...

3)I am not misinformed about Maiaysia or Taiwan. I know everything about my pc and I work in the field of electronics. What I said was why would anyone want to go there for work? This mean that although a small percentage of people are willing to go to other countries for work, its usually the third world countries that do so. If westerns leave for work, its usually to the USA, elsewhere in Europe, Australia, Canada and Japan. The other countries are never a top priority..read the statistics man. True Swedes may want to got there for holidays, but not to spend the rest of their life in Taiwan working for peanuts LOL..are you kidding me? And by the way I have all apple products only...all assembled in China :)

4) You should realize what your # 4 comment means...read between the lines man. I just think that Sweden is going in another direction and a better one in many peoples opinion. Enough is enough and if another Mr, Lee or Mr, Andersson wants another degree from another country, then they pay! So should should non EU members.

You should really read this book written by George Friedman, CEO of Stratfor, my former employer. It is a global intelligence company. He has written books about upcoming times and his analysis on world developments are usually 90% dead on. Well he has a new york times best seller out now called "THE NEXT DECADE". Write me again after reading that book...do yourself a favor huh? That is if you really want to know where the world is going in the next 20 years...and believe me China will remain where they are now as with the rest of the countries you mentioned. The world really does revolve around the USA and will continue to do so for decades to come......
15:50 April 6, 2011 by Nilspet

Do not get me wrong .. the US is still the most technological advanced country in the world but a game changer has already been around for sometime...

I assume you are a businessman rather than academician because you are poorly misinformed about the world in 2010s and surely in 2030s. It does not matter if you are a China hater or something like that. Most Swedes that work internationally would agree with me that the center of gravity has already shifted from Washington to elsewhere..not yet Beijing but all over the place among BRIC nations. Who owns Volvo cars? Who is the biggest competitor to Ericsson? Heard of Hua Wei? The 4G network is Stockholm is installed by who? Do read this for some good idea:


Do you know how much money US owes China?

I do not really have time to inform you everything about BRICs ... but you can easily go to Goldman Sachs's homepage, and you will see that in 2030 the US economy is going to be dwarfed by that of BRICs and emerging markets/superpowers.

Let's get back to the tuition fee issue: it is perfectly OK that we charge foreign students but I think we should charge all students including Swedish students. We can use the UK or German models in which national students pay less and nonnationals pay more. It is time for Swedes to realize that education is about investing for the future and to be competitive you have to look at the market's price. The price for studying at e.g. KTH (taking into account all the job opportunities during and after the education + immigration rule etc etc) is simply not as attractive as other places in Europe e.g. Denmark .. let alone those well known countries for education like the US, Canada, Australia or even Singapore. So Sweden is simply going to fall behind those countries in terms of getting foreign talents...

I happen to know many Swedes working in East Asia and all they tell me is that Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan, China, Singapore are the place to be in order to catch up

the best of the best in IT and communication sector..it is not that they will live there forever.

Again let me state that I am misinformed about the United States which is still the best in many areas. And that the Uncle Sam is still willing to absorb foreign talents (from around the world) is probably something that will keep their status very high. Sweden is trying to do the opposite i.e. inviting (with open arms) unqualified immigrants and rejecting the brainy, well-educated, qualified ones. I hope you really do have time to be better informed.
17:34 April 6, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ - Nilspet, your needlessly wordy in your repetitive expressions. Again your telling me things that I am very aware of and have been for some time. But there is no use continuing this with you because in your brain the world will succumb to BRIC....LOL!!!! Also, I am not a China hater! I hate their politics!

Hey man China, the world's second largest economy who does own all of the US debt, it would take them about 40 years to reach the USA economically (if the USA started to collapse. The USA has three times the economy of China. Do you know what this means??? Really, think hard about that. This would be a tremendous feat to surpass the USA. Then not to mention what is really happening within China itself and its high poverty rate. So no, the USA will not be beaten by China. People just follow a current trend and forecast their own theories and ideas. You will see America rise even greater than she already is within the next 8 years. We live in exciting times! Mark my words!

And back to the education issue, Sweden is only doing what America has been doing all along! Pay or leave! Survival of the fittest also known as Capitalism!

Anyone can study in the USA....and its never been free man...LOL!

Need to pack my bags now...off to the East for work tomorrow morning for a few weeks! LOLLOLOL!!!!!!
20:10 April 6, 2011 by Nilspet
Mr IntricateMind

You sound like a China hater but that is not an issue for. I am not into that because I am not a China lover in any case. Let me reiterate that your prediction is totally baseless. By 2050 the BRIC economy will be larger than EU + US together. Please look up official data for this. Whatever ... this is a non-issue as long as our debate is concerned.

One thing we seem to agree is that Sweden should charge foreign students. As I said I even thought Sweden should start charging everyone for higher education .. Swedes the cheapest rates, EU folk a bit more and non-EU the most expensive ones. USA charges Canadian citizens for example ..

BUT it is stupid to believe that we (Sweden) is on par with other countries that have been selling education for decades. Why would people go to Sweden to study if it is cheaper in Australia, Canada and US and you have better opportunities there and most likely be be better treated. You got my point this time I hope. So ..do charge ALL students but make the prices competitive!

I really believe that for lots of myltinational firms ... Mr. Johansson with a PhD from MIT is more wanted than Mr. Hansson with a PhD from KTH ..the same goes for Mr. Rao with a degree from Harvard c.f. Mr. Chakbrabaty with a degree from Lund University. Why would talented Indians go to Sweden when iti s cheaper and better to be educated and possibly get a good job in the USA or elsewhere in the world.

have a good trip man
11:57 April 7, 2011 by Descartes
Just out of curiosity:

If you are able to rank diplomas in terms of easiness of getting an appropriate job, then how would you rank Swedish B-school diplomas in comparison with US B-school diplomas.
22:49 April 7, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ Descartes - He is able to do this just like he is able to tell us that Europe and the USA are going down in 20 years...And Nostradamus predicts the end of the word around that time too! LOL!!

@ Nilspit - You are a crack up man! Well then if I am China hater then you must definitely be a Sweden hater because all you do is discredit Swedish policies and really talk down of the Swedish Education system! You say your Swedish? Is that real by blood Swedish or immigrant turned Swedish? Just curious because all Swedes I know have pride in their country and education system. You sound really upset at something?

Let me tell you of my friends who live in California. Many Swedes who came over a few years ago. All born and educated only in Sweden. One is a Scientist who lives in San Diego making loads of cash. Another is an IT whiz. She lives in Laguna Beach CA. Another is a video engineer who live in Santa Monica and all making six plus figure a year. I can tell you they never would want to give that up for Taiwan... God damn nilspit...Your right about the Swedish education system...it sucks!

Gotta catch my connect flight...later nilspit! Have a nice life in china!!! LOL
23:29 April 7, 2011 by LeoKinmann
Hmm, I've seen this IntricateMind a lot on TheLocal lately. A few obvious traits about this guy are:

he hates immigrants in Sweden.

he talks like he lives in Sweden. (and yet he said many Swedes "came" to CA)

he spents lots of time trolling on the discussion threads of thelocal.

AND, he barks a lot every time he runs into somebody with a different opinion.

just a friendly reminder.
09:52 April 8, 2011 by Nilspet

Thank you. Your reminder is very useful indeed :) It is difficult to talk to someone who is barking all the time, right?

@ IntricateMind

Yes I am a Swede and I love this country as much as you love yours (Sweden too?) and of course I am clearly VERY upset by these newly introduced TOO expensive tuition fees. It is not doing any good for Sweden. I know this because I have been working in education/research sector for years (in higher education for quite sometime) and I do not want to underrate our education. We do have a relatively good system but haven't you heard bad news e.g. how our schools are going down compared to Finland which is now rated the best in the world. Do you know why? Coming back to the higher education if you exclude the Top 12 universities in Sweden the remaining are not really even in top 300 .. mostly around top 400 or 500. I do not want to name one but can you "imagine" someone from BRIC countries (yes I must mention the factual truth again that there is more money in BRIC countries now than in Europe and US together) willing to pay their kids to go study at a 350th-ranked university in Sweden having to pay 200 000 SEK in total per academic year? For the less amount of money you could get a better deal for education, job opportunities, immigration ... e.g. in Australia, New Zealand and Canada.

I suppose LeoKinmann is right. You probably hate immigrants from BRIC and 3rd world countries because you really have overlooked the benefits Sweden has been getting from foreign students for years. Our universities got ranking boost due to internationalization of programs, etc. The amount of money that we are spending in Af-stan and Libya is way more than the amount of money we spend on non-EU students. For me only one thing makes sense...if you want to charge foreign students do charge them at competitive rates. Do not ever think of making money from them because we are not Australia yet. Aagain man.. do study economics more seriously. If you know what BRIC is then you can do some simple additions of their GDPs in 2010, 2020 and then 2030 apart from their advances in other areas. China has been to space (but not wars in such a long time) so give them a bit of credit man. I have never worked in China but I have been working with them already for sometime. I am going to try to work in China for 3-4 months next year ... we will see if I will like it.
12:53 April 8, 2011 by Descartes
... and still, the following questions remain: How compatative are Swedish B- school diplomas, how usefull is the education recieved in Swedish B-schools, how well prepared are the international students? Why Swedish B-schools don't introduce Gmat, GRE, SAT or any other test, measuring the analitical skills of the applicants? ....

For me the answers are obvious and clear. I want you guys think about above mentioned issues.
01:12 April 9, 2011 by LeoKinmann
So Descartes, what do you think are the answers? I would like to hear you talk about it more.

Nilspet, from what I have seen, IntricateMind usually re-interprets everything being said and throw back mindless comments which totally deviates from the subject. When you first mentioned Taiwan, I understood you meant the internationals students, probably from Taiwan and wants to find work in, for example, Taiwan. However, IntricateMind took it as "Swedes, Europeans and Americans want to work in Taiwan". This obviously demonstrates a complete lack of empathy and sympathy, IntricateMind is unable to see things from other people's perspectives. I pity him. Being the way he is, he will have enough problems to deal with in his life.

As I mentioned earlier, internationally, Swedish education is not known for a lot of stuff other than free tuition. I sincerely hope that introducing the fee will force Swedish universities to evolve and catch up with the best schools in Europe, US and Australia. If you want to have evolution, first you gotta have natural selection. And in turn, perhaps the Swedish society will gain some more open-mindedness with more intelligent people puring in. One gotta realize that foreign students are fundamentally different from asylum seekers. This year, Sweden is at the starting line. Let's see how many years it takes before she reach the goal.
09:25 April 9, 2011 by Descartes
To LeoKinmann>

Natural Selection is replaced by admission board in the case of universities. Natural selection is fair, I can't say the same about Swedish admission board.

I will try to answer my own questions>

Education is useful in a since that the books everywhere are the same (in Canada, USA, Asia or Africa) and if one devotes oneself to the studies, one can get the education out of university as well. Though what's make b-school a b-school is a reputation, which on the other hand is partly derived from the professors' competency and professionalism. I've seen professors of Swedish b-schools, they are not superb. Some (20 %) are ok and the others (80%) are, I'd rather say, horrible.

According to my subjective point of view, the greatest problem is not the professors but the students themselves. When I first met them (myself a former international student), I couldn't believe how unprepared for the b-school studies, the vast majority (probably 95%) of the international students were. Their English, critical reasoning and math skills were unbelievably low.

I have stated earlier and repeat now: the master students on the courses of finance didn't know the PV formula, what the term "normal distribution" meant, basics of probability theory etc. Master students on the courses of economics didn't know the linear regression, log functions, Euler's number etc. Those students were not only from developing countries but developed ones as well.

Conclusion: Introduction of tuition fees will not solve the problem of incompetency of students and professors.

The admission tests like Gmat GRE and SAT should be introduced . In the beginning the B-schools should require lower scores (e.g. 600-620 in Gmat and 90 in Toefl). The universities should keep "ok" professors and fire the others. Bad ones should be replaced by professors from other countries like US, Canada, Germany that will raise the reputation of the B-schools (e.g. offering just 1 course to Bob Shiller from Yale will do a trick).

The student who is competent, gets 720 in Gmat, 110 in TOEFL and is willing to pay 20 000 EUR will not come to Sweden. Though after the undertaken actions (mentioned in the previous paragraph), Swedish b-schools will get much more prepared students, who are willing to pay 5000 EUR tuition fees and better professors. Eventually the symbiosis will result in better ranking, which on the other hand will enable the b schools to raise the fees.
11:25 April 9, 2011 by Nilspet
I agree with LeoKinmann that (so far) internationally, Swedish education is not known for a lot of stuff other than free tuition. In fact many international students I talked to told me that they never heard of the universities in Sweden at which they study before they started applying to Sweden (knowing only that it would be free to study in a country of ABBA, Volvo, Ericsson, IKEA, ... despite the high cost of living). Most people in the world know Sweden through its commercial brands, Nobel prizes (a granter), and sport personalities rather than academic excellences. For us in Sweden "Uppsala", "Lund", "KTH" sound superior but many prospective students (I mean also those that can afford to study in Sweden) from e.g. Singapore, Canada, China never heard of them unlike Harvard, Oxford, Tokyo, Moscow State U, ANU, Heidelberg U and SciencesPo (in Paris). Unfortunately a number of admins, profs, students here do already assume that we are on par with those big names that have a long tradition of providing (selling) education to international students, and hence these people do support collecting high tuition fees like those for well-known higher education institutions in e.g. UK, US, Australian..mentioned above. Hardly any Swedish parent would spend 100 000 SEK per year on the son/daughter to go study abroad. Luckily though we have CSN that provides study loans even for overseas education for Swedish citizens otherwise there would be very few Swedes that can go study abroad. Now that there are newly introduced expensive tuition fees like 230 000 SEK per year for non-EU students in Sweden this means that non-EU students have to transfer such an amount at once to a Swedish university in order to obtain a (bureaucratically bad) student visa to go study in Sweden...and if the program is 3 years it would be roughly 1 million SEK including living expense of 80 000 SEK/year to live on. They (especially the parents who pay) will probably pause and think .. hey come on for this amount of money my kid would not even be allowed to get a work permit after his/her studies and how useful would the Swedish language be in the international world in case he/she wants to work elsewhere. They would reckon it is better to spend this amount of money in USA, Canada,... because the kid would get education from a more well-known university, better English proficiency, job opportunities, and better immigration rule. Unless the tution fee for non-EU in Sweden is relatively low it would be difficult to attract both talented (but poor) and those wealthy students to come and get educated in Sweden where job opportunities are almost non-existent and networking is far more limited than e.g. in the Australia, US, ....

I also agree with Descartes that some admission tests should be introduced. Only an introduction of tuition fees will not solve the problem of incompetency of students and professors.
19:28 April 9, 2011 by IntricateMind
@ - Leokinman - how would you know how much time I spend here? Obviously your reading all my posts...I am flattered.

I do not live entirely in Sweden no, but have spent enormous amounts of time there and Scandinavia while also living in Germany whom by the way has the same issues. And you are correct, I really do not like immigrants (Certain ones). But I am also European mind you and due to work I have the luxury of traveling the world over and seeing the sad changes that has fallen over Europa due to certain immigrants. It is your far left wing mentality which will destroy your country.

And for my Swedish friends....they ALL came to CA for one reason....the freakin weather..LOL...I dont blame them...but they are home every spring-summer.

Also, thanks for the friendly reminder....but let me tell you what you can do with it....stick it where the sun dont shine =)

Busy days here in Asia...get back to you bitches later...
17:32 April 12, 2011 by stryker9
I am an Indian Masters student. From experience, i've found Swedes to be extremely polite, reserved, strict & very very helpful. I've had people stop along with me on the road & offer me directions when i was just looking about, a bit lost. I've had candid conversations with Swedish women in get-togethers & even on commuter-trains. They look good, & talk smart. There has been no discrimination, none that i've faced.. i agree that there can always be isolated events. Swedes are a tolerant & civilized people. This is the country with the highest no. of Atheists - that's gotta say something!

To condense, i've met good people from all over this pale blue dot in my sphere of education. The 3 most respected professors at my Dept. in KTH are from India, Sweden and China. Prof. Emer. K.V. Rao was once a teacher to the last Physics Nobel Laureate - Konstantin Novoselov (who by the way, is a Russian at Manchester Univ., UK), Prof. Mats Hillert has publications that are used as standard text-books in MIT (US), & Prof. Sichen Du has probably the most contribution to the ThermoClac database with innumerable papers to his credit too. I know Swedish (often blond) girls who are brilliant photographers, sing well, are a part of non-profit orgs that fight world hunger & have done actual volunteer-work there.

They all (men & women) alike, speak flawless english in the same melodic tone that Swedish is spoken in.

People can only be judged on their work.. not on where they come from, their color, caste, creed, race, gender, etc.

I am thankful that i am availing education that is free, but it isn't entirely paid for by tax-payer money - there are loads of contributions from the industry for research. At least, i speak this confidently for my Dept. I selected KTH because it selected students on the basis of merit & not on how much fees we're capable of paying. But while here, we've to provide proof of support for 12mnths at a time (at the rate of 7300kr/mnth). In my Studera.nu profile, i applied only to KTH because it is a center of excellence - i chose my department because it has one of the leading research-centers in the world for Materials Science - Brinell Center. We have one of the finest laboratories in the world for 'Engineering Materials Physics'. I am proud to be here, & to expect that anything should come easy is a travesty of reason.. it is to become a leech to the system that nurtures. If i wish to be here, i will (out of basic logic) respect the 'here' including its folks, and attempt to earn my 'position' like all the others in my examples above have. With the same logic that allows me to feel that no country must fall prey to refugees, i stand to support the fees. Plus, for its sheer stupidity, i condemn all/any comments referring to nightlife/women in a thread that talks of education & fees imposed on it.

I, on my part, wish the best for all Universities/Students here.
19:55 April 14, 2011 by IntricateMind
Well said Stryker9..bravo!
20:17 May 5, 2011 by mav77
@ stryker9....I am also masters student here and I totally agree with everything that you have said about Swedish people and life.....But one thing though, you say you stand for the tuition fee...but would you be here at KTH if you had to pay 250 000 Kr per year?
00:07 May 6, 2011 by Zonob
I keep reading about these great Canadian universities blah blah blah. I'm from Canada. I did my BSc in Canada and my MSc in Sweden. I don't frankly think that overall Canadian universities are better. I have come across students in Sweden who were really good (both Swedes and from outside) and seen MANY students in Canada who do NOT deserve to be there but were admitted because they were willing to PAY. It's a business for God's sake. On the human level, I found Swedes to be more respectful and helpful than most Canadians I have met in my life. Stop bashing this country just because they have decided to introduce fees. Go to Germany or wherever you want. There are thousands of good universities in the world, other than Swedish that you can choose from.
07:03 May 8, 2011 by Descartes
I'm sure if my German shepherd had applied and paid a fee of 900 SEK, he would have got admitted. Moreover, after admission, if he paid 15000 SEK, it wouldn't embarrass the Swedish lecturers to give him lectures. Though, I want you to know I wouldn't be surprised> my German shepherd has more skills and intelligence, understands English better and knows more math theories than some of the students and lecturers in Swedish Universities.
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